Student reveals true intent of LSU’s biology seminar class

By Educate Truth Staff

Louie Bishop pulls the veil from LSU’s new biology seminar (BIOL 111A). An advertisement for the class in the Pacific Union Recorder (Nov. 2009) said the class would include “the Seventh-day Adventist teachings on the biblical doctrine of creation….” This is not the case.

According to Bishop, quite the opposite was occurring in the classroom, but we aren’t left with just Bishop’s word on the matter. LSU recorded the lectures, and Bishop challenges President Randal Wisbey to post the videos so people can see for themselves what is really being taught.

UPDATE: Educate Truth has posted the videos here.

Also, in a letter to the Adventist Review, Randal Wisbey said, “Let me assure you and your readers that La Sierra University never, ever disciplines a student for expressing and upholding Adventist beliefs.” While this is somewhat true in word, Bishop shows how false this is in deed. LSU administration may not discipline a student for expressing Adventist beliefs by stating it in those words, but if Louie tells people what is being taught in the biology department, LSU will do all they can to keep him quiet. They have already done all they can to keep him quiet, aside from kicking him out of school.

Source: LouieBishop.com

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93 thoughts on “Student reveals true intent of LSU’s biology seminar class

  1. Louie

    When the apostle spoke of spiritual wickedness in high places, he wasn’t only talking about places we consider “worldly”. The bible is replete with examples of spiritual wickedness within the family of God. What you have been exposed to is one more in a line of many. You are right to oppose it, and we all in the church ought to be vigilant in rooting it out of our insitutions wherever we find it, however much we recognise that we can never entirely succeed, in this life.

    Unfortunately, there exists a class of people for whom the good opinions of other people are more important to their sense of self-worth than the good opinion of God. So, wanting to seem like “good people” to other Christians they live amongst, but equally wanting intellectual respectibility in the eyes of the world and its scientists, they have attempted to combine biblical Christianity with worldy theories.

    To people who understand that God is the author of life, while the world follows the author of death, it is plain that this attempt can never succeed: the two things are inherently opposite and irreconcilable. Ironically, the attempt is fatal to both faith and respectability, because the world will not give them what they want – respect – while they remain Adventist Christians, and eventually they will sacrifice what little remains of their Christianity on this altar, in order to get what is not worth having.

    I commend you for taking a very public, and at the same time modestly restrained, stand on this point. I know that God will honour and bless you for it.

    Regards
    Denver




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  2. There is a present growing evil at work at La Sierra, and the Pacific Union, if it does not take decisive action soon, will be held equally guilty for harming the students’ faith at this institution.

    The Bible and Spirit of Prophecy are clearly read and understood. We are to have minds of children, simple in faith and understanding. The academic world, of which I am a part, seems to be caught in a web of deception that the Bible and Sister White must be mistaken. Is God not Almighty? Can He not speak and it stand fast? What is so difficult to fathom? As a child in the 70s, the Heritage Singers used to sing, “God said it, I believe it, and that settles it for me!”

    Satan is at work at La Sierra. [edited] This evil must be rooted out at all costs, with no delay. The day of judgment is at hand, and the Lord is coming mightily and quickly to save those who have rallied to His cause. I pray for the students at LSU, those who are seeking next school year to attend, and those who are caught in this unnecessary turmoil.




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  3. If this website truly wanted to end what was happening at LSU, a debate would be held on one of the forums to form a strategy to end this, instead of repeating things we already known.




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  4. WOW Louie ! You were in the cross fires for sure, GOd has put you there for a reason!! You must let your light shine no matter the consequences.May our Lord Jesus Christ continue to be with you. Hold up the blood stained banner as high as you can! You are in our prayers along with the rest of the people that follow the Lord.




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  5. Wow. I am so shocked by the deceit and underhanded actions, explicit and implicit, of LSU. I hope Mr. Bishop’s letter gets some serious publicity. Friends of Truth might consider emailing a link to this page, to potentially interested contacts.




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  6. Br. Louie: Not only have you taken BIO 111A, but you are taking HIS 427, a senior course for select students called “Luther and the Reformation.” Now you have personally experienced what Luther went through in fighting against a hierarchy opposed to truth. Stand firm, like Luther, on the Word of God, against the august magistrates of our time.




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  7. Utterly amazing. I have no clue how this will not get enough attention of mass firings take place after this years GC Session unfortunately the Elijahs of this world will be screaming to God that they are the only ones and his reply will be yet so many have no bowed the knee to Baal.

    May God continue to guide his peope into truth and let the heralds remain fearless




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  8. Louie-
    I’m assuming what you have written is essentially correct. I believe we all have the responsibility to stand firm for the truth and I personally encourage you to stand firm no matter what. Some of us have had similar experiences under differing circumstances.

    It boggles my mind to find both the La Sierra Board and the administration so complacent and taking no observable action. Is it time that La Sierra be disbanded and the property sold or even to make a clean sweep and replace its president and erring faculty? I doubt that one thing will occur at the upcoming GC Session. I won’t go into detail as to why.




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  9. Rather than take my word for it, I would challenge the Administration to post on the LSU website all recordings of the freshman Biology lectures to enable the public to decide for themselves. Failure to meet this challenge may well indicate the Administration is aware of the truth, but is embarrassed to reveal to the public what was actually taught in this class. -Louie

    I agree. I will be extremely surprised if LSU takes Louie up on his challenge. If they weren’t aware when the class started they certainly were aware when Louie wrote a letter to Wisbey and the Board informing them back in November 2009.

    Wisbey knew about this since November and he’s apparently done nothing to fix it.




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  10. If Genesis 1 is not to be taken literally, all kinds of human ideas can be put into the text. Understanding the ancient world is important in terms of context. However, the ancient world is not to determine our hermeneutic. The Scriptures are to be allowed to reveal its hermeneutic.

    The real issue here is the authority of the Scriptures. Is the mind to be exalted above the Scriptures imposing a hermeneutic on it or are the Scriptures is to be exalted above the mind as God’s revelation to us with the Scriptures allowed to reveal its own hermeneutic? The latter is the only safe course.

    Why is this important? Our world is moving rapidly to the end of time. “None but those who have fortified the mind with the truths of the Bible will stand through the last great conflict.” GC 593, 594.




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  11. Some do not see this as a “moral” issue. They err. When ordained ministers who are responsible for the spiritual health of the youth attending one of our universities allow the teaching of evolution which is directly contrary to Bible truth, they sin. It surely is a “moral” issue.

    When the General Conference addressed the situation more than ten years ago and set in place a directive requiring a program be set up in all divisions that would report on the school’s success or failure in this area of theological training, and the North American Division refuses to follow the GC directive, then it surely is a “moral” issue.

    This is not going away and it is not going to be restricted to one school or to the subject of evolution. This is a moral failure at the highest levels in our church. Evolution, the symptom being examined will shed light on the cancer that is spread throughout the NAD body and beyond.

    Let none attempt to cover up the “moral” failure of those in leadership positions in the Pacific Union and the North American Division. May God grant grace to our faithful leaders that they may stand up for truth in this great time of need. Jesus is coming very soon and this was bound to come to light sooner rather than later. The church will see reformation and revival. It must, so that the multitude who are waiting may come in.

    When God draws a line in the sand, it is a moral decision that will be made. Many ordained ministers today are in the valley of decision. Their choice will determine to a great degree into which group they will be divided, the sheep or the goats. My prayer is that many will choose to stand with Christ.




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  12. “The greatest want of the world is the want of men,–men who will not be bought or sold; men who in their inmost souls are true and honest; men who do not fear to call sin by its right name; men whose conscience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole; men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall”.–Education, p. 57

    Thank you, Louie, for being “one of those men”!

    Remember:

    Just where YOU stand in the conflict
    That is YOUR PLACE!
    Just where you think you are useless
    Hide not your face–
    God put YOU there for a purpose–
    What ‘ere it may be
    Know He has chosen YOU for it,
    Work faithfully!

    I do not mean to be critical but I cannot help being appalled at what has been going on and the apparently spineless way it has been handled by our leadership for so many years. Truly the “camel” not only is totally inside the leadership “tent” at LSU but at least somewhat entrenched at the different “headquarters” at the Southern California Conference and the union who is supposed to be overseeing it–as well as a long way “up the ladder.”

    Keep up your courage, Louie, you may not be very popular with the administration at LSU but there are many who are supporting you in prayer! What you are doing must make an impact on the leadership and, hopefully, leaders will be chosen at the upcoming GC meetings who have the courage to meet this crises in a meaningful way. (I hope you will be there!)




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  13. This is not only a problem at our Universities, but also in our Conference’s. In fact it probably begins there. Most of our Conferences are following what their leaders say to do in the NAD and it goes against Scripture and E.G. White. “the church will appear to fall….”

    Louie-I’m assuming what you have written is essentially correct. I believe we all have the responsibility to stand firm for the truth and I personally encourage you to stand firm no matter what. Some of us have had similar experiences under differing circumstances.It boggles my mind to find both the La Sierra Board and the administration so complacent and taking no observable action. Is it time that La Sierra be disbanded and the property sold or even to make a clean sweep and replace its president and erring faculty? I doubt that one thing will occur at the upcoming GC Session. I won’t go into detail as to why.  (Quote)




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  14. Keep standing for the truth and God will bless you. But you will go through tough times but you have the Lord by your side. Our son went to a SDA Academy and stood up for the truth and they refused to let him graduate, but he took the GED and graduated from college at 19 with highest honors. the Academy locked his graduation certificate in the safe and it was given to him25 years later.




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  15. If Louie’s account is truthful, and I believe it is, what appears to be happening at La Sierra IS unusual. Having recently served on the Judicial Committee of a sister SDA educational institution, I’m aghast–and incredulous–that Louie was never allowed to defend himself in person. The only time our committee deliberated in the absence of a student was when a student happened to be in jail, and even then we deferred a decision regarding the student’s future readmission until the outcome of a trial. In fact, not only is the student expected to defend himself or herself in person, an advocate for the student is also invited to testify on the student’s behalf.

    For those of you clamoring for the closure of LSU, think again. Should a SDA church be closed every time a pastor sexually abuses a constituent? Of course not. The perpetrator must be punished by removal, not the congregation. What we need is reform, not ruin.




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  16. Dear Louie

    Perhaps you have come to LSU for such a time as this…! I too have seen the inaccuracies that are being taught when it comes to biological origins there at LSU.

    To say that Creation week was not literal and “required thousands upon thousands of years, strikes directly at the foundation of the fourth commandment. It represents the Creator as commanding men to observe the week of literal days in commemoration of vast, indefinite periods. This is unlike His method of dealing with His creatures. It makes indefinite and obscure that which He has made very plain. It is infidelity in its most insidious and hence most dangerous form; its real character is so disguised that it is held and taught by many who profess to believe the Bible.”

    Ellen White, The Literal Week, Patriarchs and Prophets, chapter 9.

    I teach biological sciences here at Monterey Bay Academy and ready my students for such a time as this…! We need men and women who will call sin by its right name! Who will not bow down to the pressures of society or numbers but will remain true to the straight and narrow. I encourage you to stand up for the foundational beliefs of our church but more importantly for the Biblical Truth that has been established since the beginning of the world.

    The geological evidence that evolutionists site as evidence for macroevolution does not show anything but mass extinction…! Complexity of life in the fossil record does not follow a set pattern within the layers but can be found scattered throughout the layers of rock strata. Example: Cambrian Explosion.

    I spoke at the Faith Seminar at Glacier View Ranch a number of years ago and was surprised by the minority of those presenting that believed in a literal 6 day Creation Week. It is my desire and goal to have my students not be mere reflectors of other men’s / women’s thoughts but to seek the Truth for themselves! I want them to become well established in the Faith so that when the winds of theories and ideologies contrary to the Scriptures is placed before them, that they will answer by, “Thus Saith the Lord, and or It is written…”, just as Jesus defended the pillars of his Faith on the Word of God when he was tempted in the wilderness…

    My prayers are with you and your family..!
    May the Lord continue to use you there at LSU.

    Sincerely,

    Bob Nobuhara
    Monterey Bay Academy
    Biological / Natural Science




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  17. Louie,

    You mention that you have permission to distribute the work of an SDA scientist who has published work in peer-reviewed journals. Would it be possible for you to post the references to this work? I would be interested in looking at it.

    Brad.




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  18. It is so good to hear the “rest of the story.” I have blogged about this debate and like to see more people “stand up for Jesus” in these final hours. If more and more Christ-centered Adventist stand up and speak up, our Church will begin to shake like never before. Check this out…

    “I asked the meaning of the shaking I had seen, and was shown that it would be caused by the straight testimony called forth by the counsel of the True Witness to the Laodiceans. This will have its effect upon the heart of the receiver, and will lead him to exalt the standard and pour forth the straight truth. Some will not bear this straight testimony. They will rise up against it, and this will cause a shaking among God’s people.”–1T 181 (1857).

    http://www.AdventistVoice.com




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  19. LSU’s treatment of Louie Bishop demonstrates at least three things:

    1.Academic freedom does not stand alone but must accompany academic integrity. LSU’s word parsing in stating “support” for Louie’s beliefs while disciplining him on the basis of the student handbook demonstrates LSU’s agenda-driven duplicity which underlies this story.

    2.LSU’s ongoing treatment of Louie, as stated in his letter, demonstrates LSU’s fearless disregard for the church’s position and intervention in the Creation/evolution debate.

    3.Substantial changes would seem to be in order to restore an honest and transparent process at LSU.

    Many in leadership have been aware of the concerns at LSU for some time, as well as the details of Louie’s ordeal. The question should be addressed as to why Louie was left alone to do the heavy lifting at LSU and why he received little official support while he was “swinging in the wind.” Like David, Louie confronted the giant while those whose responsibility it is to engage were apparently adjusting their armor back in the tent.

    Rick Jaeger D.D.S.




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  20. The statement by the Administration of LSU that “La Sierra University has never, and will never discipline a student for holding Seventh-day Adventist beliefs, Never!…,” rings incredibly vacuous to me. You would think that there was something sinister about holding to SDA doctrines for which discipline was really called for – except for the broad minded, tolerant concession of the authorities! Amazing indeed! And to think that their charter is supposedly that of a Seventh-day Adventist institution! A great deal more is revealed about the attitude of the authorities to truth and righteousness by this clever attempt to obfuscate the facts, than they would probably care to acknowledge.




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  21. Sounds to me like LSU doesn’t mind if students hold SDA beliefs, as long as they don’t stand up for them when professors at LSU actively attempt to undermine these beliefs within the classroom and even within chapel services. Just have a student take a public stand for SDA beliefs when they are attacked in LSU classrooms and LSU is all up in arms… against the student?!

    Sean Pitman
    http://www.DetectingDesign.com




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  22. Louie, Thank you for standing up [edit]. We need more God-fearing people like you to take a stand, as did Daniel and many others in the Bible against apostasy [edit].

    There are millions of Bible-believing SDA members supporting you, although not many are willing to come online to say so. Do NOT let the LSU administration, the Board, the SECC, or the Pacific Union Conference intimidate you.




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  23. I agree with presenting all the lectures and seminars associated with this course. Let’s see and hear for ourselves what is actually being taught. What is there to hide? Maybe a LOT!!




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  24. The compromise of GC administrators with the truth and values of SDA church surprise me. They are letting this problem to exist although the clear unethical behavior of the LSU president and professors, including the religion Dean, receiving a pay-check from the church, and at the same time sneaking their own [contrary] religious convictions [in while] pretending to do it as “good science.” [edit]

    Thomas: I agree with you to ACT on this problem. Some specific suggestion?




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  25. The only semi-legitimate excuses I can think of, that might be in use for there being no swift and decisive action by now, is worry about the disruption of students’ studies.

    But I think our upper leadership needs to take a leap of faith, and start firing people from the top down. If they’re worried about not being able to continue normal function, then they need to ask God to deal with that. I’m sure God will provide sufficient personnel replacements very quickly to allow His will to be done.

    Not even mentioning the fact that we SHOULD be interrupting the processes of the universities which undermine the students’ faith. This is Luke Warm at it’s worst. Nobody in our leadership wants to rock the boat, and the result is LOST SOULS.




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  26. In looking up the EGW statement quoted above “the Church will appear to fall…” I found this statement that encourages your work to open up the hidden workings in our schools: “Internal corruption will bring the denunciations of God upon this people as it did upon Jerusalem.” MR 994. Our schools were established to be institutions to train missionaries to take the Gospel to the world, yet the mindset there now is so opposite to that objective that barely 1% of its student body ever think to give 1 year of their life to mission work. However, in the case of LSU I am glad they are not sending out missionaries to teach non-Christ-based doctrines to others.

    Jon Wood




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  27. Dr. Pandit, There IS something “sinister” about holding SDA beliefs at LSU. Why? Because the prevailing philosophy there is liberal humanism, as we all can plainly see. If you stand for the Bible, you just might need some discipline!




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  28. Thank you, Louie, for your clear and well-documented report. It is to the shame of LSU and the Seventh-day Adventist church that you had to stand up alone with none to support you.

    The duplicity of LSU administration is evident in that they claim “academic freedom” for themselves while they deny anything similar to their students. They claim the right to teach students what *they* believe while administering discipline to a student who dares suggest that there is a different way to interpret the evidence.

    I applaud the testimony of Bob Nobuhara, and I trust that he is able to prepare his students by teaching them to compare and contrast the scientific evidence for the gradual evolution from simple to complex organisms and gradual geologic changes with the evidence for creation by divine fiat and the mass extinction brought about by the flood followed by world-wide lower temperatures caused by volcanic activity. High school students are quite capable of making good judgments on the matter if given sufficient evidence. However, when students have *not* been exposed to either evolution or creation science, they are extremely vulnerable in an environment such as La Sierra.

    Students who are not prepared do not even *recognize* when what they are taught is contrary to true science, and they will see “science falsely so called” as the truth. They will not likely even recognize the dissonance between what they are taught and the teachings of the Adventist church. That would explain the student testimonies regarding La Sierra not teaching anything contrary to Adventist beliefs and their “faith being strengthened.” Unprepared, they came like empty containers to be filled.

    May the Lord give wisdom and exceptional teaching ability to this science teacher at Monterey Bay Academy of which my husband has only fond memories.




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  29. I’ve said it before, and I will say it again. If we are paying tithe money to these teachers, then they should hold to the church teachings. If they cannot be ethically honest and state that they do not agree with SDA teachings and positions and go elsewhere for employment, then they should be fired. Pure and simple. If the powers that be refuse to fire them, then have a “tithe strike”. Don’t withold tithe, just send it to another union or world field. When the money dries up, and the school has to make cuts to survive, then you might have someone’s attention!




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  30. Dear Louie:

    Your courage has, by the grace of God, accorded you a place in Adventist history. My desire is for your integrity and passion for truth to be duplicated exponentially, throughout the Adventist higher educational structure. Godly young people who hold to our distinctive message must raise their voices to a crescendo that will not be denied.

    I am so glad to hear from the biology teacher at Monterey Bay Academy, where I attended some years ago. Thank God we still have teachers who hold to the principles found in Scripture and the writings of the Spirit of Prophecy! And may the cause of revival and reformation speed on and triumph gloriously!

    God bless!

    Pastor Kevin Paulson




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  31. Thank you, Louie! That was a powerful testimony.

    My last post on this topic indicated that I thought Randal Wisbey had parsed his words carefully enough to avoid an outright lie, while still managing to give a misleading impression to the casual reader. But at that time I was aware of only the third incident Louie describes in his letter, the leaking of Dr. Greer’s lecture slides. In the first two incidents (passing out a letter at alumni weekend and passing a note to 20 of his friends and classmates) it appears that Louie was disciplined solely for sharing his concerns about LaSierra’s Darwinist agenda. Thus, Wisbey statement, “Let me assure you and your readers that La Sierra University never, ever disciplines a student for expressing and upholding Adventist beliefs” is just an outright lie. In fact, they did discipline Louie for expressing and upholding Adventist beliefs.

    Wisbey should be fired for such a public and widely circulated lie. But things are far from what they “should be” at LaSierra, or else the situation would not have gotten this far out of hand.




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  32. I commend Louie Bishop for the straightforward way in which he has presented his case. It is clear that LSU has violated his student rights and furthermore, their public statements regarding this student are not true. How can the legitimate power brokers of this institution stand by and do nothing?




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  33. Well written and clear testimony, Louie. My prayer group will be alerted to pray for you.

    In these last days we will see every species of apostasy and we will have to meet them. Only those who are willing to lose their lives for Christ’s sake will be counted worthy.

    I recommend that you remain bold, yet respectful. Remain truthful and be very accurate. Collect evidence and store such off campus. The day will come when the opposition against you will be extremely strong. If God is your anchor, you will not be moved.

    The union, conference (SECC) and division leaders will have to answer to God. [edit]




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  34. I thank God for young people like you Louie. May God continue to give you strength as you stand in the gap. And those that are our ‘watchmen on the wall’ should be ashamed to have let you stand alone, ashamed to not have nipped this in the bud years ago. We all know that this is something that did not just rear its ugly head yesterday. I do not have an Adventist education, I wish I did. Our education system is a gift & we need to make sure that it says true to biblical teachings, anything other than that is a work of the devil.
    Please know that you are not alone in your fight, may each of us sound the alarm, make our voices heard, that our leadership has no option but to act & act quickly. If we do not stand for something, we will fall for anything. God bless you Louie!!!!
    Maranatha,
    Gwen




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  35. Louie,

    Thanks for your courage and extremely definitive letter. Hopefully someone within our denomination (administrator, board, etc. at some level) will have equal courage to deal with this situation appropriately. I sure do hope and pray that the “good old boy network” has not left us with one of those “fox guarding the hen house” scenarios.

    As a Lay Pastor I travel rather extensively, speaking in numerous churches, and I tell every congregation of the issues at LSU and urge that families NOT send their youth there unless, and until, this is changed. I likewise know pastors (just had this conversation with one this past weekend) that are telling their congregations the same thing. It is unfortunate that we must mount a boycott of sorts in order to get done what should be done swiftly.

    There are professors, and people within the administration, at LSU that need to be terminated. Terminated and not just simply transferred, which sometimes seems to be the order of the day. Seems these folk have forgotten just Who they work for.

    It is deplorable that we have this happening in our church and her institutions.




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  36. Dear Louie,

    May God MIGHTILY bless you and give you His wisdom and courage as you, like David, take on the giant in defense of the living God. Your articulate letter clearly and without malice states the problem and the solution.

    In reading the other responses posted on this site, I affirm that you and Martin Luther will have some experiences to share when you meet in Heaven. I was a student at La Sierra College in the 1960’s, and I am so grateful for the spiritual nurturing with which I was blessed at that time. I am deeply disappointed in the position taken by the current biology department and the present leadership. Lines from that immortal hymn of the Christian faith, “Once to Every Man and Nation” come to mind–“Though the cause of evil prosper, yet ’tis truth alone is strong; Though her portion be the scaffold and upon the throne be wrong; Yet that scaffold sways the future, and behind the dim unknown, standeth God within the shadow, keeping watch above His own.”

    You are His own, and He is keeping watch PERSONALLY over you! You and Daniel, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, as well as Joseph and Elijah, have stood faithfully for God and the truth in His Word, and God will honor your commitment to Him. I will pray for you and the cause of truth at LSU every day until Jesus comes again.




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  37. If there were TRUE forums in the church, where reform could be accommodated, so that when things go wrong no one had to resort to discussions on this kinds of forums, the church would not be in the condition in which it is today. Such forums just do not exist. People who speak up are shut up, ostrocised and character assassinated, they have to resort to other methods to ensure the church is informed and even rebuked. The church is ran by men, men are prone to error, if we could correct each other in christian love and receive rebuke likewise, Christ would have come. But we do not have a leadership that listens let alone implement anything the members raise. What they do well is as outlined above. When they preached to us to come into the faith, they were very nice, they misused the baptismal fountain and vows, not to lead us to “die to sin” and resurrect in the newness of life in Christ and teach us how to walk there in in truth and righteousness always abiding (1John 3), but, to “initiate us into the denomination” after which we promptly became their property which if it does not adhere to the rules and dictates of the denomination without questioning (cardavar obedience) then they do as above or balckmail you or worse. So my brother, such a forum doesn not exist and if you find yourself in one in which they are listening, it is because you are saying what they want to hear, otherwise you should have been thrown out by now. It is the way of all apostate systems throughout history, nothing new under the sun.

    If this website truly wanted to end what was happening at LSU, a debate would be held on one of the forums to form a strategy to end this, instead of repeating things we already known.  




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  38. Dear Louie,

    Thank you for having the courage to stand for your faith. God will be with you through all of this.

    We, as church members, must rally behind you and insist that our Conference correct this problem without
    further delay. Stay firm and post as many of these lectures as possible for the Conference to see. We need
    to look for administrators and teachers that will teach our Bible based beliefs.




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  39. Dear Louie,

    You are in my prayers. May God continue to grant you courage in these David & Goliath circumstances. Deuteronomy 31:6 NKJV
    “Be strong and of good courage, do not fear nor be afraid of them; for the LORD your God, He is the One who goes with you. He will not leave you nor forsake you.”




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  40. It’s obvious to me that the witness of one person is all that is needed to brandish pitchforks. One disgruntled person. I have had classes with wonderful teachers in the past and most students like me that the professor was great. But there was often one angry disgruntled student who saw things very differently.

    The Seminar course certainly sounds horrific and anti-SDA. Wait a minute. I just noticed: “The above comments I have listed are directly from the session entitled “Faith and the Intellect,” which was a part of that Seminar.” Um, what about the rest of that lecture? Did the speaker say “I believe all of this personally? What about all the other lectures for the remainder of the course?

    At Adventist Today Sean Pitman complained bitterlly that some were misrepresenting EducateTruth by selecting the most mean-spirited and rude comments that made him “cringe”. He said it was unfair to characterize a message on the basis of only a very small part of it. Yet that is exactly what goes on here. None of you want to hear the balance of what happens at LSU, and you really don’t need to. Youu KNOW that LSU faculty are attacking the church. You KNOW they are theieves and liars. And Louis just proved it beyond a shadow of doubt.




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  41. Good to see the well deserved unanimous support for Louie and his superbly composed grievance thus far.

    The height of deceptive artifice to foist upon freshmen students a class which demeans a literal interpretation of Genesis and promotes a figurative fiction – all in the context of a seminar supposedly meant to uphold the Adventist view of Creation. Perhaps a union-wide mandatory in-service in Christian ethics for all employees is in order(for those that are not terminated).

    Next we will hear that the Divinely stone-inscribed Decalogue is to be interpreted in an ‘ancient’ metaphorical way.




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  42. To Louie, Shane, et al.

    Forty years ago my ministerial credentials were lifted and never reinstated as a result of an indiscretion in my personal life. Details and locations are not important to my thoughts here. When presented with the facts by myself, my Conference president was quick to show compassion but to regretfully take the only course of action open to him according to the tenets of the SDA church. And I respected him for it.

    How much has changed over forty years! Today, those who have clearly been caught, not only in hidden indiscretions but in outright publicly visible lies, have yet to face any form of discipline from their conference, their union, or their division. I can only think that our leadership all the way to the top, like the ten virgins in Christ’s parable, have fallen asleep and are no longer capable of performing the duties of their respective offices.

    And so, as I have done on this forum before, I ask again: If the upcoming GC session passes into history without adequately addressing this issue and removing as many people at LSU, Pacific Union Conference, the North American Division, and even the General Conference as is required to straighten out the mess and eliminate the cancer from among us, what steps are we, the lay people in the pew, prepared to do? Surely God will reveal His will to someone who is willing to stand alongside Louie Bishop and bring this episode of apostasy to an end. And may God have mercy on us all if we fail to support them!




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  43. Louie,

    Keep the Faith!

    God will prevail. The wisdom of man is foolishness. The “scientists” who promote their “Theories” as fact will be found in time to be just non-believers trying to figure out where they came from.

    Spiritual things are spiritually discerned and the men pushing evolution and humanism are unable to see clearly.

    For me the foolishness of evolution requires much more “faith” than I have…. It is much easier to trust in God and his Word to see where you and I come from.

    Again, God is with you – who else do you need!

    God be with you,

    Gary Moore MD




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  44. Geanna, Louie is not the only one making claims. And if there is nothing to hide, let the recordings of the classes be released to the public for scrutiny. Prove Louie is lying. Also, it doesn’t matter how much good the university does. What they are teaching in these classes undermines God’s word, and therefore nothing can balance it.

    Louie, good for you. You are in my prayers. Remember you are not just standing against these men, but Satan himself, so keep close to Jesus, and allow Him to guide you.

    Closing a church is not the same as closing a secular institution. I think closure should be considered before God sorts out the mess. Great loss occurs when God is forced to intervene. But the General Conference is letting us all down by their inaction, and I have to wonder how many of our leaders therefore support our doctrines?




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  45. Dear Louie,

    Thank you for standing in crucial times. Keep speaking up in all humility and godliness, and you’ll play your part in genuine revival for our church, and the hastening of Christ’s appearing. Your stand is refreshing and something special. Herein lies a temptation, it’s hard to be special and humble at the same time. So, we will pray for you, that God will continue to fill you with His Spirit, to help you to keep your eyes on Jesus Christ and Him crucified, to keep you in humility, and to continue to stand on His Word and the Spirit of Prophecy.

    God Bless You,
    Pastor Mike Lambert.




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  46. Hello Louie……your needs are in my prayers…..I am so totally “shocked” at what you continue to go through because you are standing for “God’s Truth”………Stand firm in your “battle”…..I know His strength is yours……..God be with you and bless you in this conflict. Always in His Care as you are…….Gram Dixie




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  47. Assuming that Louie represents the facts accurately, we have ample reason to weep for our church leadership for their utter failure to act decisively in favor of our stated beliefs. As a Seventh-day Adventist pastor I am not surprised that creation versus evolution has become an issue. However, I am shocked at witnessing such apparent dilly-dallying from a church leadership that claims the messages of Revelation 14:6-12 as a vital part of our church’s mission.

    Why do we not hear more from church leaders? Why are not more pastors speaking out? Where are the conference and division leaders across our nation? How come we have not heard from our division leaders? Who among our General Conference leaders, apart from Jan Paulsen, will speak up?

    Are we satisfied with hypocrisy and double standards? Are we willing to shove the dirt under the carpet and pretend that the problem goes away? Or, are we hoping that LSU’s board will have a Damascus road experience and – without strong incentives from ‘upper leadership’ – undo decades of gradual perversion of our teaching on creation in their class rooms?

    Be always faithful!

    Pastor Birger Draget




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  48. D Burt says:
    May 11, 2010 (Quote)
    I’ve said it before, and I will say it again. If we are paying tithe money to these teachers, then they should hold to the church teachings. If they cannot be ethically honest and state that they do not agree with SDA teachings and positions and go elsewhere for employment, then they should be fired. Pure and simple. If the powers that be refuse to fire them, then have a “tithe strike”. Don’t withhold tithe, just send it to another union or world field. When the money dries up, and the school has to make cuts to survive, then you might have someone’s attention! D Bur

    5-13-01
    D Burt–

    There is only one problem with your solution (as I see it). That is, LSU is located in the S. California conference. That area of the country is well-known to be the most liberal conference in the whole country–as well as probably the wealthiest one. Any “lack of funds” caused by the rest of us sending our tithe elsewhere could, and probably would, be quickly made up by the ones who agree with what is happening at LSU. (Don’t misunderstand me, there are MANY in S. Cal who are dedicated SDA’s. I lived in that general area for a year in the early 50’s and it was true then and I am sure it is also true today.)

    I read a rather amusing little story last week that I would like to share–(Hopefully it will not be edited out.)

    A young girl asked her mother where she came from and the mother told her the wonderful Genesis story. Later she asked her father the same question and he told her that she was descended from monkeys who, after millions of years, managed to become humans.

    The child, terribly confused, went back to her mother for an explanation. The mother smiled and said, “Honey, I told you the story of where I KNOW my family came from. What you father told you was the story of where he THINKS his family came from!” (Not a totally accurate explanation, of course, but a rather interesting answer!)




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  49. Dear Lydian:

    Let me clarify, if I may, some facts about La Sierra University and those to whom it is accountable in the denominational structure. Actually, LSU is located in the Southeastern California Conference, not the Southern California Conference. Moreover, LSU is owned and operated by the entire Pacific Union Conference, which includes far more than the two southern California conferences where many of its students come from.

    I too lived in southern California for some time–18 years, to be sure, prior to accepting a call to the Greater New York Conference. I attended La Sierra University as well as Loma Linda University, studying for a Master’s degree in systematic theology. While it is true that Adventism in southern California includes a very large constitutency that is theologically liberal, it is also true–as you have noted–that many godly, dedicated Adventists live in that region also. Sadly, too many of them keep silent at moments such as these.

    Regarding financial support, I would urge caution in assuming that theological liberals would make up the gap if conservatives and others were to withhold support from La Sierra University. Having lived and worked among theological liberals, both in southern California and elsewhere, I have found the issue of finances to be one area where liberals are quite conservative and where conservatives are quite liberal! Giving regularly, proportionately, and sacrificially to the church and its institutions is a trait of those who hold to the singular, unique mission of Seventh-day Adventism and its place in salvation history. Theological liberals don’t even believe in the unique identity and mission of the Seventh-day Adventist Church. Hence, if they give of their means at all to any religious causes, their generosity is spread about very widely. Many others, due to their ecclectic, self-accommodating spirituality, tend to keep most of their means to themselves, believing their “progressive” religious outlook has liberated them to sample life and its temporal pleasures without guilt.

    At the bottom line, it is the support of the conservatives that the church cannot afford to lose. No one out there, in all likelihood, is going to make up the gap should this support be lost. It is those who devoutly believe the church’s doctrinal and moral imperatives who form the bedrock of the church’s sustenance. Sooner or later, their convictions and hopes will not be denied.

    God bless!

    Pastor Kevin Paulson




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  50. I stand corrected, Pastor Paulson. My quetion is this: I am in a Union far away from LSU. Does tithe from every union go to help support LSU in any way? In other words, does ALL tithe end up in a giant “pot” somewhere and is then distributed to all the fields accordingt to size and needs? I’m quite sure there are a lot of folks who are also somewhat confused over just how the system works. A brief explanation would be very much appreciated.




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  51. Pastor Paulsen, You’ve stated well the truth that LSU would go down [edit] IF bible-believing SDA’s withheld support for that institution. You’re also correct that the few conservatives in southern California are silent on these issues–apathetic is actually a better term.




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    • The SDA Church might decline without those who really do believe in the doctrines of the Church, but I’m not sure about a school like LSU. I think that such a school might actually survive, even thrive, as it tends more and more toward a more secular atmosphere. Regardless, the SDA Church need not support any intitution that is publicly undermining its stated goals and ideals on the Church’s dime.

      Sean Pitman
      http://www.DetectingDesign.com




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  52. Dear Lydian:

    I am not aware that any tithe outside the Pacific Union goes to the support of La Sierra University. As a Union institution, its sustenance is drawn from the territory it serves. With Loma Linda University, Andrews University, Oakwood University, and similar institutions whose direct sponsor is the General Conference, it is the entire world church from which support is drawn.

    God bless!

    Pastor Kevin Paulson




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  53. Sean, You’re correct that LSU is so secular it might survive, but NOT as an SDA institution, which it isn’t now anyway! I also agree that the SDA Church should not be supporting such an institution as LSU, in its present state.




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  54. “Regardless, the SDA Church need not support any intitution that is publicly undermining its stated goals and ideals on the Church’s dime.”

    Translation: the church should withdraw its support from La Sierra. Is this another purpose of Educate Truth besides “transparency” and firing the biology faculty (who aparently cannot be replaced).?




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  55. Pingback: Educate Truth - Evolution vs Creation at La Sierra University

  56. Anybody considering that the withdrawal of SDA support is what La Sierra’s real objective is? The Pacific Union needs to take our University back!




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  57. Woe are we. I attended LSU. I saw liberality allowing the [homosexual] club and now evolution. I just attended Wed prayer meeting with Elder John Brunt explaining how the church let him go at Glacier View with Desmond Ford (30yrs ago) and his anti SDA beliefs that he was teaching at PUC. Why can’t we do the same today with the LSU professors? Why do we too become liberal?




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  58. Hello Louie,
    I want to commend you for your courage and willingness to stand up for the truth. I experienced some of the same backlash for having the audacity to question certain teachings at the Adventist University I attended as well.
    I would not normally suggest something as extreme as what I am about to suggest but I really feel that you need to consult legal help in regard to the actions that have been taken against you. I suspect that the offending letters and admonitions would be quickly expunged if LSU were concerned it may lead to a court case which, even if they won, would expose them for what they are actually teaching.
    What I find particularly reprehensible is that the Board of Directors of this institution can so easily bear false witness about what is actually being taught. I guess is evolution isn’t a problem neither is a literal judgment.




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  59. Hello Louie,

    I am a member of your church family in Murrieta and we can be proud of you.

    It takes courage to stand against the establishment, and it is mind-blowing that this kind of establishment is being supported by our institutions. They need to wake up, Jesus warned us to “keep watch”.

    I hold a bachelor’s degree in applied science and believe in the account of the book of Genesis on creation in a literal way. Main stream science is perverted by theory upon theory that were never proved. I recommend anybody interested in better scientific theories to visit “www.creationscience.com”. And still these are also theories and we have to be humble about what we can prove as truth.

    To me this is a lie:”The fittest shall survive and evolve.”

    And this is the truth: “Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.”

    Jesus makes me fit for eternal life.

    Thanks again for your efforts and courage, which I believe are pleasing to our Lord as He is glorified.

    Your brother in Christ,
    Juan Sabater.




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  60. Hello Louie,

    I wish to express my dismay with your lack of integrity and transparency. I don’t think you have fairly characterized the situation at LSU.

    You wrote “This Seminar was promoted as the class where the relevant doctrinal positions of the SDA Church regarding Creation would be taught. Sadly, this was not the case.” You also wrote “this course actually undermined the traditional beliefs of the church.”

    You then cited a series of statements that came from the latter half of one speaker’s talk. What of the other speaker who spoke that day, and what of the other four days the class met? What about the entire talk on “What Adventist Christians have learned about early earth history and what we can learn” (did the speaker tell you that life evolved millions of years ago after God sprinkled DNA over the sea? be honest!)

    After viewing the recently posted videos I have to ask why did you not mention to us the perfectly fine talks by the religion faculty Trenchard and Guy who enouraged students to learn continually and look forward to an eternity of learning? These individuals spoke very respectfully of the church and IN NO WAY UNDERMINED ANY TRADITIONAL BELIEFS OF THE CHURCH.

    Why did you not mention the wonderful lecture by Webster, another religion faculty member who reassured us that every one of the following threats from science to the Adventist church can be met:

    1. Threat to propitiation model of atonement – if death is not “the wages of sin”, but necessary to evolution-creation-life, then the whole purpose of salvation is lost. No fall, no Savior.

    2. Threat to confidence in the Bible – if creation is not taken literally, why take the ressurection and 2nd coming literally?

    3. Threat to the Sabbath – if the creation story is not literally true, then why take the Sabbath as a literally true command to be kept?

    4. Threat to the Immanence of the Second Advent – if “creation” takes place over billions of years, why should we not expect the future will extend for billions more?

    5. Threat to the Character of God – how can we reconcile the character of God (love) with the scientific (can’t read) cosmic, planetary, biological and human evolution- which necessarily inncludes massive destruction (super-nova), inefficiency, waste, (can’t read), and extinction?

    Were you asleep during this presentation that like Trenchard and Guy FULLY SUPPORTED THE TRADITIONAL BELIEFS OF THE CHURCH? Or did you decide that being highly selective with your examlpses would be more effective to support your claim that LSU is undermining Adventist faith?

    If transparency is important to you then you need to be more transparent yourself, dude.




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  61. Louie,
    How can I, as a member of the SDA church support you? I would like to help in any way that I can. My prayers are already with you and with our university.




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  62. Sis, You asked the question, “Why can’t we do the same…” Well, we could, except for one major fact, the “Church” here in the Pacific Union Conference, has shifted so leftward and liberal, toward secular humanism, that it actually sees nothing wrong with the “homosexual club” the “evolution as fact” committee, etc!




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  63. Were you asleep during this presentation that like Trenchard and Guy FULLY SUPPORTED THE TRADITIONAL BELIEFS OF THE CHURCH? Or did you decide that being highly selective with your examlpses would be more effective to support your claim that LSU is undermining Adventist faith?

    I am sorry to say this Geanna, but I think that you were the one who was asleep during those lectures. Those guys spoke right over your head. You completely missed all of the subtleties of their heresy.

    Why did you not mention the wonderful lecture by Webster, another religion faculty member who reassured us that every one of the following threats from science to the Adventist church can be met:
    1. Threat to propitiation model of atonement – if death is not “the wages of sin”, but necessary to evolution-creation-life, then the whole purpose of salvation is lost. No fall, no Savior.

    HOW? Please enlighten us on how these conflicting views, evolutionary origins and the atonement, can be met.




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  64. After viewing the recently posted videos I have to ask why did you not mention to us the perfectly fine talks by the religion faculty Trenchard and Guy who enouraged students to learn continually and look forward to an eternity of learning? These individuals spoke very respectfully of the church and IN NO WAY UNDERMINED ANY TRADITIONAL BELIEFS OF THE CHURCH.

    Fritz Guy is already on record as in open opposition to the Adventist voted positions on origins – so either you are claiming that Guy then came to class and lied to students about his positions – or you are simply not yet trained in the critical thinking skills to understand Guy’s points as long as he cleaverly placed a nice face on his views.

    Since to this point in time your main objective here has been to complain about Adventist voted beliefs on the doctrine of origins – one wonders if you are now claiming that Fritz Guy was able to convince you to finally accept the actual voted statements – (as if he himself had done an about face regaring his own stated views) or if in fact you are telling us that you think that Fritz Guy’s open rejection of Adventist voted doctrine on origins should be spun around as “affirming Adventist traditional beliefs” as a “creative writing” exercise.




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  65. Why did you not mention the wonderful lecture by Webster, another religion faculty member who reassured us that every one of the following threats from science to the Adventist church can be met:

    1. Threat to propitiation model of atonement – if death is not “the wages of sin”, but necessary to evolution-creation-life, then the whole purpose of salvation is lost. No fall, no Savior.

    2. Threat to confidence in the Bible – if creation is not taken literally, why take the ressurection and 2nd coming literally?

    3. Threat to the Sabbath – if the creation story is not literally true, then why take the Sabbath as a literally true command to be kept?

    4. Threat to the Immanence of the Second Advent – if “creation” takes place over billions of years, why should we not expect the future will extend for billions more?

    5. Threat to the Character of God – how can we reconcile the character of God (love) with the scientific (can’t read) cosmic, planetary, biological and human evolution- which necessarily inncludes massive destruction (super-nova), inefficiency, waste, (can’t read), and extinction?

    You need master the critical thinking skills to differentiate between propaganda and reality. A brief exercise along those lines is in order – so here goes.

    1. Webster ended his talk “claiming” that a compelling answer could be found – but never actually showed it in real life.

    2. Webster appears to argue that evolution must be taken as “true” (no matter what) and that a Bible-bending exercise is “possible” that might allow for that. Since Webster is bringing this up from the religion department’s POV – one assumes that the religion department has course work designed to destroy the faith of the LSU students in the accuracy of the Genesis account for origins and the Adventist voted doctrines on origins.

    3. Webster never said what kind of answer would be offerred. Would the answer hold to the voted positions on origins by the Adventist Church?. He implied it would contradict it when he stated that the answers he would accept are either “ask an anthropologist what the Bible writers meant” (not even remotely exegesis) or “pretend” that the Bible is nothing more than poetry when it conflicts with evolutionsism’s doctrines on origins. (Even though the Gen 1:2-2:3 account is summarized into LEGAL code in Ex 20:8-11)

    The fact that the religion department is joining the biology department in condeming the Adventist view on origins – should “remove all doubt” about where this thing is actually going at LSU. Students that had been trained to some level of critical thinking – should have been fully warned by those presentations about the danger of continuing to pay LSU to do – what it was clearly intending to do.

    in Christ,

    Bob




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  66. the lord is lookin 4 young men en women who will b true 2 principle.who r willin 2 stand 4 the truth at o cost.who r willin 2 get truth at any price and sell it at no price. Let us o stand 4 truth brothers and sisters becoz the days we are livin nw r evil




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  67. I attended La Sierra University. I studied under Dr. Webster and even took my pre-medical courses (i.e. biology) at LSU. I graduated with a BA in Religious Studies…and it hurts me some of the comments that was mentioned up above.

    (just a couple examples)

    1. “While it is true that Adventism in southern California includes a very large constitutency that is theologically liberal, it is also true–as you have noted–that many godly, dedicated Adventists live in that region also. Sadly, too many of them keep silent at moments such as these.”
    – It seems to be implied that because I am a theologically liberal I am not as “godly, dedicated Adventist”? Let me remind you that liberal or conservative…WE are ALL BROTHERS and SISTERS in Christ. And being “liberal” does not make me or anyone else less “godly or dedicated to Adventism.”

    2. “There is a present growing evil at work at La Sierra, and the Pacific Union, if it does not take decisive action soon, will be held equally guilty for harming the students’ faith at this institution.”
    – I graduate with a BA in Religious Studies and took Pre-medical science course…and in NO WAY did it rattle my faith. In fact La Sierra opened up to me a new understanding of Salvation and God’s grace. I became a student missionary because of the teachings at LSU, and it changed my life FOREVER! In fact, being a “liberal” Adventist allowed me to reach to my students more personally then (what many of you would call) the other “conservative” students were able to do. BUT that does not mean I was more “holy, godly, dedicated, etc” because I reached to more students then the others. I studied evolution…AND creation. Yet, in no way was it an “evil” that “harmed by faith.”

    I do applaud Louie for his courage to stand up for the church beliefs. However, I stand up for mine as well. There are different types of individuals in the world. There are different types of SDA students. And I am one that is capable of believing that there is a possibility of an “days of inaugaration” in the idea of creation. And if you claim to NOT support LSU because its teaching go against the “literal, 24 hour day” creation…or claim that there is “evil rising” in LSU..then IN A WAY…you put down my education, my Love for Christ, my faith as a Christian and Seventh-day Adventist that I GAINED from LSU.

    It breaks my heart to see this issue bring conflict to the SDA community. I love all my brothers and sisters of the SDA church…and I pray that you understand where I am coming from as a concerned and hurt Alumni in regards to the many comments mentioned here.

    La Sierra University is a great school…and I hope whatever the outcome of all this…we all realize that we believe and love the same God, same mission, same message…the ideas of “days of inauguration” and “literal 24 hour days” is not worth this “conflict.”

    Whether you agree or disagree with what I’ve said, I hold true to my beliefs and am very proud of my education from LSU.

    I hope in no way that this msg causes conflict…but rather understanding from my point of view as an alumni of the School of Religion (who has also taken the major science courses) of LSU. Thank you.

    [It is fine for you to personally go wherever your convictions take you on these doctrinal issues. However, it is not fine for someone who is a paid representative to undermine the clearly stated goals and ideals of the organization on the organization’s dime. You may personally think it perfectly Ok to believe in some form of theistic evolution taking place on this planet for billions of years of time. That notion is not, however, the position of the SDA Church as an organized body of believers. In this sense, you would not be a proper representative of the organized SDA Church since your views fundamentally oppose those of this organization. It would therefore be improper of you to take money from the SDA Church, if you ever did decided to become a paid representative, while going about countering what the Church is paying you to do.] – Sean Pitman




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  68. As I see it, this whole controversy boils down to one simple thing as far as I am concerned: Do we believe that the Bible is the living, life changing, Word of the God of the universe or do we not? Do we believe that this God is the all-powerful, all knowing Being He claims to be or don’t we? Believing in creation, as such, will never save anyone. It is in knowing, and believing in the all-knowing, all-loving, all-powerful God of creation that will.

    I am not against studying ABOUT evolution in our schools. Our young people are bound to be met with it someday, somewhere–but that study MUST be done in the light of “thus saith the Lord” which ALWAYS should be center-front regardless of what we are studying. When we once start “reasoning” outside of the Bible we are on very dangerous ground. Mankind, led by the arch-deceiver, can always find a reason to doubt, to question, to turn his back on a “thus saith the Lord.” It happened to Eve in the Garden and it has been happening to Eve’s descendants ever since. But it always ends in destruction in one form or another. Always! If any theory does not agree with Scripture it is always wrong and the work of the arch deceiver. Always!!!

    Please, let’s stop our bickering and unite on the one sure foundation of “thus saith the Lord.” It is the only “sure thing” in this world and to venture off of that foundation will only end in suffering the second and final death. It is simply to big a risk to take.

    I firmly believe that we are living in the very “toenails” of the image of Daniel 2 and that King Jesus will soon burst through the starry skies to gather His faithful people and take them Home. This is not the time to be led astray by the many winds of false doctrine that are going to grow more and more powerful as time goes on. We must return to being the “people of the Book,” as Adventists were once called, if we want to be among the faithful ones who, with rapture, will exclaim “This is our God–we have waited for Him and He will save us. This is the Lord–we will be glad and rejoice in His salvation!”




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  69. Louie:
    May God continue to bless, guide and protect you as you continue to do His will.

    Sadly, I would recommend you obtain an attorney. The truth must be exposed. Jesus is coming in THIS lifetime. I will continually pray for you and your Truth Mission. Keep the Faith…Romans 8:38,39

    Your sis,
    Becky




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  70. Louie Bishop, if only there were many more students like you! You remind me of Daniel and his three friends, standing fearlessly for the right against great odds.

    I attended La Sierra many years a go. At a Friday vespers service, a group got up to present the “special music.” It was literally rock music with little disguise. When the group finished, one student stood up in the audience and said humbly, “This is not the right way to worship God; I am leaving.” At that 32 of us rose from our seats and did likewise. Back at the dorm monitors were recording the names of all who had walked out. Receiving my demerit notice, I went immediately to the dean, saying, “I don’t think it is right to require attendance at a service like that.” The dean was amused, and said, “You think we’re so bad? Peter denied Christ! We haven’t denied Christ.” When I told this to the student who had stood up in protest, he said, “We deny Christ every day!”

    When I attended La Sierra College as a theology major, I’d led a sheltered life, had the Spirit of Prophecy ideals burning within me, and thirsted for just such an education – over several issues similar to yours I finally decided to withdraw. Thereupon I wrote a letter of explanation to N.R. Dower, president of the General Conference Ministerial Association. I received a kind and very thoughtful response, which included the line, “I can sympathize with you in your evaluation of our ministerial training program.”

    From what I understand experiences of this nature are going on in many of our institutions across the land. Thank you, Louie, for your shining example of courage and devotion to the word of God!




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  71. Pingback: Educate Truth - Evolution vs Creation at La Sierra University

  72. Dear Louie,
    I am so proud of you. It is very hard to stand up against one professor or pastor, but you stood for God’s Word in spite of the oppression of the staff and administration of LSU. I hope that the support of most of these letters to you, and the affirmation of the SDA beliefs at the GC, give you encouragement. You have stood true to God and His Word. God is proud of you and He has a special work for you. God bless, Ann




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  73. Your God is too small. Closing your eyes and your minds to the amazing discoveries of science and burying your heads in the archaic sand of your religion is not necessary to maintain your faith. Allow your God to be bigger than your understanding of the Genesis account or evolutionary theory. Allow that the beautiful poetry of the Bible might not be the equal of scientific research in determining how the universe works, but is none-the-less beautiful and meaningful. Rather than fighting against the advances of modern science and stubbornly clinging to 19th century modes of thought, it would be far better that you try to make the world a better place as far as you are able. Take this energy that you are using to fight science (sorry, there is no victory in this fight) and use it for good, help somebody, visit a sick person, volunteer at a soup kitchen, mow your elderly neighbor’s yard, invite a lonely person over for popcorn and games on Saturday night! Religion can be a beautiful and positive force in this world, or it can turn inward, ugly and useless, as it has in this pointless fight. Examine your motives here: what do you really hope to accomplish? Will accepting modern ideas possibly damage the 27 fundamental beliefs? Probably. Is that worse than allowing your church to moulder away into an out-dated and useless institution serving no one and eventually dying out? I think so.




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  74. @Ronica:

    Your God is too small. Closing your eyes and your minds to the amazing discoveries of science and burying your heads in the archaic sand of your religion is not necessary to maintain your faith. Allow your God to be bigger than your understanding of the Genesis account or evolutionary theory. Allow that the beautiful poetry of the Bible might not be the equal of scientific research

    Ronica – there are some theistic evolutionists among SDAs who would like to think of themselves as moving beyond the Bible as you suggest.

    Many of our agnostic and atheist friends see the Bible as an old archaic text that needs to be left behind along with the caves, and the monkey-eating ways of the cave-man.

    But Christians see the Bible as “The Word of God”. In the Christian model – the world was created without sin – perfect and without the law of “tooth and claw” working in predation, extinction and competition for food resources. In the Bible model – God is seeking to save the World through the Gospel of salvation. All have sinned according to Romans 3 – and all are doomed to the lake of fire death according to Romans 6 and Revelation 20 unless they accept God’s solution for the sin problem.

    in Christ,

    Bob




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  75. @Ronica:

    Will accepting modern ideas possibly damage the 27 fundamental beliefs? Probably. Is that worse than allowing your church to moulder away into an out-dated and useless institution serving no one and eventually dying out? I think so

    Darwin admitted to the lack of harmony between the bible and evolution.

    You yourself admitted that to accept evolution you must view the Bible as little more than outdated archaic superstition.

    Dawkins, William Provine, Meyers all went on public record admitting that Evolution is the death of christianity – the death of belief in the Bible.

    You are right that it would “change the 28 Fundamental Beliefs”.

    If you will notice the decline of Christianity in countries with 90% and higher levels of acceptance of evolutionism -there is a direct correlation.

    Both Christians and atheists and even many agnostics admit to this “great divide” between those two religions on the subject of the doctrine of origins found in evolutionism vs that which is found in Christianity.

    in Christ,

    Bob




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  76. @Amy Banquerigo:

    I attended La Sierra University. I studied under Dr. Webster and even took my pre-medical courses (i.e. biology) at LSU. I graduated with a BA in Religious Studies…and it hurts me some of the comments that was mentioned up above.


    – It seems to be implied that because I am a theologically liberal I am not as “godly, dedicated Adventist”? Let me remind you that liberal or conservative…WE are ALL BROTHERS and SISTERS in Christ. And being “liberal” does not make me or anyone else less “godly or dedicated to Adventism.”


    – I graduate with a BA in Religious Studies and took Pre-medical science course…and in NO WAY did it rattle my faith.


    I studied evolution…AND creation. Yet, in no way was it an “evil” that “harmed by faith.”

    I do applaud Louie for his courage to stand up for the church beliefs. However, I stand up for mine as well. There are different types of individuals in the world. There are different types of SDA students. And I am one that is capable of believing that there is a possibility of an “days of inaugaration” in the idea of creation. And if you claim to NOT support LSU because its teaching go against the “literal, 24 hour day” creation…or claim that there is “evil rising” in LSU..then IN A WAY…you put down my education, my Love for Christ, my faith as a Christian and Seventh-day Adventist that I GAINED from LSU.

    La Sierra University is a great school…and I hope whatever the outcome of all this…we all realize that we believe and love the same God, same mission, same message…the ideas of “days of inauguration” and “literal 24 hour days” is not worth this “conflict.”

    Whether you agree or disagree with what I’ve said, I hold true to my beliefs and am very proud of my education from LSU.

    Amy – thank you for sharing.

    You say that you attended LSU – became a liberal and leapt off the cliff of abandoning the historical grammatical method of exegesis – and adopted the “days of inauguration” story instead of accepting the clear Bible statement “SIX days you shall labor … for in SIX DAYS the Lord MADE the heavens and the earth the seas and all that is in them”.

    you then claim that this is “your belief” and “your faith” as if the 28 Fundamental Beliefs no longer exist – but rather each person simply roll-out whatever they choose for “their belief” when it comes to Bible doctrine. While it is true that some choose a baptist belief other methodist and others the 28 Fundamental Beliefs of Seventh-day Adventists — it is NOT true that ALL beliefs no matter how varied are still just the 28 Fundamental Beliefs of Seventh-day Adventists.

    And then you say this “has not damaged your faith”.

    I beg to differ. Your own post is transparent in showing just some of the damage done to your beliefs – your faith as compared to the doctrines of the Seventh-day Adventist Church.

    The fact that you come away not being aware of the extent of the damage done testifies to the efficience and effectiveness of the methods used at LSU to introduce error.

    in Christ,

    Bob




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  77. Will accepting modern ideas possibly damage the 27 fundamental beliefs?

    You denigrate and belittle the church and its beliefs, yet you dont even know that there are 28 Fundamental Beliefs. Maybe for your sake, you should consider some research and investigation before inserting “foot in mouth”.

    I also would like to mention that those(saints) “…which keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”(Rev 12:17) will NOT fade, this includes the SDA church. Yes, the majority inside the Church will fall by the wayside(Matthew 7:14), but the SDA church and those loyal to God and His commandments will stand until the Second Advent of Christ. The Church would appear as though it is about to fall, but it will not.
    It is obvious you have taken man’s ways over God’s ways(Is 55:8,9), I am truly sorry you have chosen the former. God knew that mankind would profess to be “wise” in his foolishness, but God’s foolishness(creation) is wiser than men(1Cor 1:25-27; 3:18-21). I hope you figure out that trusting in evolution as the source of life is a slap in God’s face. Are you sure you wish to bear that burden upon the day of judgement? Why not take God at His word? Faith is the unity of BELIEF and TRUST in God and His word.




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  78. Ah…you see a statement of beliefs can be amended…it is now 28. I guess new light can be revealed.

    You denigrate and belittle the church and its beliefs, yet you dont even know that there are 28 Fundamental Beliefs. Maybe for your sake, you should consider some research and investigation before inserting “foot in mouth”.
    I also would like to mention that those(saints) “…which keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”(Rev 12:17) will NOT fade, this includes the SDA church. Yes, the majority inside the Church will fall by the wayside(Matthew 7:14), but the SDA church and those loyal to God and His commandments will stand until the Second Advent of Christ. The Church would appear as though it is about to fall, but it will not.
    It is obvious you have taken man’s ways over God’s ways(Is 55:8,9), I am truly sorry you have chosen the former. God knew that mankind would profess to be “wise” in his foolishness, but God’s foolishness(creation) is wiser than men(1Cor 1:25-27; 3:18-21). I hope you figure out that trusting in evolution as the source of life is a slap in God’s face. Are you sure you wish to bear that burden upon the day of judgement? Why not take God at His word? Faith is the unity of BELIEF and TRUST in God and His word.  




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  79. I attended La Sierra University.I studied under Dr. Webster and even took my pre-medical courses (i.e. biology) at LSU.I graduated with a BA in Religious Studies…and it hurts me some of the comments that was mentioned up above.(just a couple examples)1. “While it is true that Adventism in southern California includes a very large constitutency that is theologically liberal, it is also true–as you have noted–that many godly, dedicated Adventists live in that region also. Sadly, too many of them keep silent at moments such as these.”
    – It seems to be implied that because I am a theologically liberal I am not as “godly, dedicated Adventist”?Let me remind you that liberal or conservative…WE are ALL BROTHERS and SISTERS in Christ.And being “liberal” does not make me or anyone else less “godly or dedicated to Adventism.”2. “There is a present growing evil at work at La Sierra, and the Pacific Union, if it does not take decisive action soon, will be held equally guilty for harming the students’ faith at this institution.”
    – I graduate with a BA in Religious Studies and took Pre-medical science course…and in NO WAY did it rattle my faith.In fact La Sierra opened up to me a new understanding of Salvation and God’s grace.I became a student missionary because of the teachings at LSU, and it changed my life FOREVER!In fact, being a “liberal” Adventist allowed me to reach to my students more personally then (what many of you would call) the other “conservative” students were able to do.BUT that does not mean I was more “holy, godly, dedicated, etc” because I reached to more students then the others.I studied evolution…AND creation.Yet, in no way was it an “evil” that “harmed by faith.”I do applaud Louie for his courage to stand up for the church beliefs.However, I stand up for mine as well.There are different types of individuals in the world.There are different types of SDA students.And I am one that is capable of believing that there is a possibility of an “days of inaugaration” in the idea of creation.And if you claim to NOT support LSU because its teaching go against the “literal, 24 hour day” creation…or claim that there is “evil rising” in LSU..then IN A WAY…you put down my education, my Love for Christ, my faith as a Christian and Seventh-day Adventist that I GAINED from LSU.It breaks my heart to see this issue bring conflict to the SDA community.I love all my brothers and sisters of the SDA church…and I pray that you understand where I am coming from as a concerned and hurt Alumni in regards to the many comments mentioned here.La Sierra University is a great school…and I hope whatever the outcome of all this…we all realize that we believe and love the same God, same mission, same message…the ideas of “days of inauguration” and “literal 24 hour days” is not worth this “conflict.”Whether you agree or disagree with what I’ve said, I hold true to my beliefs and am very proud of my education from LSU.I hope in no way that this msg causes conflict…but rather understanding from my point of view as an alumni of the School of Religion (who has also taken the major science courses) of LSU.Thank you.
      

    Amen.
    What would God think if he were to see this post.
    “The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today… is Christians who acknowledge Jesus with their lips and walk out the door and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is simply what an unbelieving world finds unbelievable. “




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  80. @Professor Kent: If we had continued to let LSU keep things a secret, their questionable teaching practices would not have caused them any derision or division in our church. You’re blaming Educate Truth for pointing the finger at the institution causing the problem. That’s equivalent to blaming those who exposed the terrible atrocities happening within the Catholic church between priests and children. In no way is that atrocity equal to what is happening at LSU. The point is you’re ignoring the fact that LSU is the divisive one.

    While creating a website to publicize their error is not the most effective way to address things, you and others have failed to come up with an effective way to deal with the problem that hasn’t already been tried and failed. LSU admin wasn’t holding themselves accountable, the Union wasn’t holding LSU accountable, and Paulsen wasn’t about to hold LSU accountable, so finally the laity decided to hold LSU accountable by publicizing what they’re doing and then let the church decide how to react.




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  81. @Professor Kent: If we had continued to let LSU keep things a secret, their questionable teaching practices would not have caused them any derision or division in our church. You’re blaming Educate Truth for pointing the finger at the institution causing the problem. That’s equivalent to blaming those who exposed the terrible atrocities happening within the Catholic church between priests and children. In no way is that atrocity equal to what is happening at LSU. The point is you’re ignoring the fact that LSU is the divisive one. While creating a website to publicize their error is not the most effective way to address things, you and others have failed to come up with an effective way to deal with the problem that hasn’t already been tried and failed. LSU admin wasn’t holding themselves accountable, the Union wasn’t holding LSU accountable, and Paulsen wasn’t about to hold LSU accountable, so finally the laity decided to hold LSU accountable by publicizing what they’re doing and then let the church decide how to react.  (Quote)

    Well stated, Shane. The total lack of any responsibility in our SDA Church, including Paulsen is and was shameful!




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  82. Shane Hilde says:
    October 17, 2010 @Professor Kent: If we had continued to let LSU keep things a secret, their questionable teaching practices would not have caused them any derision or division in our church. You’re blaming Educate Truth for pointing the finger at the institution causing the problem. That’s equivalent to blaming those who exposed the terrible atrocities happening within the Catholic church between priests and children.

    It is typical “shoot the whistleblower” in order to protect the evolutionist agenda – a tactic that even a non-Christian society can “see” as a bad thing.

    in Christ,

    Bob




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  83. Re Louie Bishop

    As you know I think evolution is correct. As an agnostic I am not a member of the SDA church.

    I have not seen an official response of LSU to Mr Bishop’s complaint. However, with that caveat in mind, it certainly appears as if Mr Bishop has been dealt with unjustly and unfairly and I object to LSU’s conduct in that regard. Louie is a brave individual with integrity and applaud Educate Truth for coming to his defence.

    Regards
    Ken




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