Open letter to General Conference

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How are such faculty and administrators who think themselves so “progressive” in advance of the foundational pillars of the organized SDA Church on such basic fundamental issues going to be remotely capable of “bringing our young people home at the end of the day?”,2 as Elder Paulsen put it, if they don’t really believe in or see evidence for the home message to begin with? Ultimately, is there to be no real accountability to the organized SDA Church for what is presented as “truth” from either pulpit or classroom? – by paid representatives supported by God’s own monies in the forms of tithes and offerings?

The viability of the SDA Church, as an organization, and the developing minds of a generation of SDA young people, is largely in your hands. Who knows whether you have not attained to your positions of great responsibility for such a time as this?

Open Letter Re LSU – Jan 1 2009

References:

1. EdTruth. Yes, They Should Resign. EducateTruth.com. [Online] 2009. [Cited: December 21, 2009.] http://www.educatetruth.com/news/jan-paulsen-says-yes-they-should-resign/.
2. Paulsen, Jan. An Appeal. Adventist News Network. [Online] 2009. [Cited: December 21, 2009.] http://news.adventist.org/statements/an-appeal.html.
3. GC, SDA, Executive Committee. Response to an Affirmation of Creation. Adventist.org. [Online] October 13, 2004. [Cited: December 21, 2009.] http://www.adventist.org/beliefs/statements/main_stat55.html.
4. Greer, Lee. BIOL 111: Genomes and their Evolution. EducateTruth.com. [Online] December 11, 2009. [Cited: December 21, 2009.] http://www.educatetruth.com/presentations/biol-111-genomes-and-their-evolution/.
5. EdTruth. La Sierra Evidence. EducateTruth.com. [Online] 2009. [Cited: December 21, 2009.] http://www.educatetruth.com/category/la-sierra-evidence/page/3/.
6. Stripling, Jack. Creating Controversy. Inside Higher Education. [Online] September 21, 2009. [Cited: December 21, 2009.] http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2009/09/01/evolution?utm_source=MailingList&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Big+News.
7. LSU, Board. Final Board Draft Statement. Scribd. [Online] November 2009. [Cited: December 21, 2009.] http://www.scribd.com/doc/22530002/Final-Board-Draft-Statement11-09.
8. LSU, Board. Resolution Regarding a Scientifically Rigorous Affirmation of Seventh-day Adventist Beliefs. Scribd. [Online] November 2009. [Cited: December 21, 2009.] http://www.scribd.com/doc/22530019/Resolution-Regarding-a-Scientifically-Rigorous-Affirmation-of-Seventh-day-Adventist-Beliefs.
9. Dwyer, Bonnie. In the Eye of the Storm. 4, s.l. : Spectrum, 2009, Vol. 37.
10. Hayward, James. The Many Faces of Adventist Creationism: ’80-’95. L. 3, s.l. : Spectrum, March 1996, Vol. 25, pp. 16-34. http://www.spectrummagazine.org/files/archive/archive21-25/25-3hayward.pdf.
11. LSUweb. Student Perspective – Biology Student Testimonial. LaSierra.edu. [Online] November 2009. [Cited: December 21, 2009.] http://www.lasierra.edu/index.php?id=1213#c1764.
12. Loughborough, JN. Testimonies for the Church. No. 32, p. 30.
13. Loughborough, JN. Testimonies for the Church. p. 650. Vol. 1.
14. White, Ellen G. Counsels to Writers and Editors. p. 35.
15. Nichol, Francis D. SDA Bible Commentary, 7 vols. plus supplement. Washington, D.C. : Review and Herald Publishing Association, 1970. p. 1083. Vol. 6.
16. White, Ellen. G. Silver Spring, MD : Ellen G. White Estate, 1888.
17. —. Spiritual Gifts, 4 vols. Battle Creek, MI : Seventh-day Adventist Publishing Association, 1858, 1860, 1864. pp. 90-93. Vol. 3.
18. —. Testimonies for the Church. p. 207. Vol. 1.

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110 thoughts on “Open letter to General Conference

  1. It’s good this is addressed to the right individuals. The issue does not center on Bradley et al. The issue centers on governance of SDA institutions.




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  2. It is very essential that we the Seventh-day Adventist membership, leaders and otherwise, take a decided stand against all our institutions that promote false teachings on Creationism, theology, and teachings which oppose Adventist beliefs as found in the Bible. The membership give us the leaders the right to office by virtue of their funds, prayers, and moral support. This will have to stop towards those sources that continue to fund institutions that blatantly disregard our teachings. If we are too inept as leaders to bring out change, then the membership must act in order to precipitate change. This is a topic that must surface in our up-coming GC session.




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  3. Sean,

    Thank you for keeping this issue before leadership. Dealing with the problem of evolution being taught in our schools is long overdue. As I see it, we either believe in the Biblical account of creation or that of the world. There really is no middle ground. Either/both belief systems require faith. The question is: Do we have faith in the secular world’s view or in God’s Word? As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord and believe in Him. It takes much more faith to believe in the chance happenings of evolution than the intelligence of our loving Creator.

    For those who are teachers/instructors in our educational system, we would that you become converted and believe in God, not just give Him lip service. If you feel you cannot do this then we request you resign from your teaching posts in our schools. Our money can be put to better use than the paying of your salaries.

    You in leadership need to see to it that our money is properly spent. We do not wish to continue payment to those who would remain unconverted. The problem has gone on for years. It is now time for action. If renegades do not wish to give up their posts, then the next order of business is to dismiss them from their positions. That includes starting at the top, Randal Wisbey, then all those teachers/instructors he is shielding. A complete overview of all our schools, top down or bottom up, the choice being yours, is overdue in the extreme. We request immediate action. There is not a moment to loose. The end of the school year is too late. Now is the time. This is the future generation of SDA’s we are currently teaching falsehood to.

    Immediate Attention Needed,

    Bill Eichner




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  4. Eugene Shubert: Sean,Your letter assumes that the Church leadership would heed Sister White’s counsel if they knew what it was. I see no evidence that they care.  

    Eugene,

    Following Christ’s council, we should assume the best of people and make every effort to challenge them to do the right thing. As the letter references, even Esther was at first hesitant to act. But when reminded of her responsibility, she acted in spite of the risk to her own life. It may be that the leadership is hesitant due to what acting might do to their leadership career. But if they see the need to act, whatever the risk, we pray that they will do so.

    Now is not the time to criticize our leaders but to pray for them. Don’t assume that you would do better, were you in their shoes. Instead, humbly keep them in prayer.

    God bless,
    Warren




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  5. Warren:
    It may be that the leadership is hesitant due to what acting might do to their leadership career.

    I’m sure of it. And for how many years do you think that God has been waiting for the Adventist hierarchy to oppose the church sanctioned teaching of evolution, pantheism and spiritualism within Adventism?




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  6. @Warren:

    Warren,
    While I agree with your general stance, I also feel that our leaders were long ago prompted to act on this issue. I will continue to keep our church leadership in prayer but a true leader does what is RIGHT rather than worry about their careers. If that is what we have, meaning if we have leaders that are more worried about their careers than doing what is right, then replacing them would also be in our best interest.

    God bless,
    Austin




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  7. Thank you for not allowing this important matter to slide off the radar. Your letter to our president is quite well stated. I believe it supports the views and desires of most Adventists, but more importantly, supports fundamental Adventist doctrinal truth.




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  8. Rev 18:4 does not tell us to reform ‘the church’ or even to pray for it…. but to ‘come out of it’. No doubt you don’t really care what YAHUSHUA, or a follower of His says, but rather are only interested in members of ‘the structure’. So be it.




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  9. While we are encouraged to pray for our leaders it is never in a vacuum. God does not want us to simply pray for those in leadership who are leading the church astray; he wants us to remove them after warnings of caution. While we pray Rome, or shall we say Israel, continues to burn. It is time to get off our knees and demand accountability. We must still love our church and defend it to the hilt, but we cannot and must not condone destructive, deliberate error. This is all the strategy of the archenemy to stymie and confuse the progress of the Gospel.




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  10. John Hasse: Rev 18:4 does not tell us to reform ‘the church’ or even to pray for it…. but to ‘come out of it’.No doubt you don’t really care what YAHUSHUA, or a follower of His says, but rather are only interested in members of ‘the structure’.So be it.  

    The SDA church is not Babylon, nor is it in Babylon. In the days of old Israel was taken to Babylon because she disobeyed God and worshipped the gods of other nations.

    It is true that we have renegade elements in the church and these include the evolutionists. However, the prophecy we have guiding us is that THEY WILL LEAVE the church.

    Also, true Christians will leave their churches to join up with the SDA.

    So the only coming out is the evil (tares) coming out of the SDA church, not the good (wheat).




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  11. “The greatest want of the world is the want of men—men who will not be bought or sold, men who in their inmost souls are true and honest, men who do not fear to call sin by its right name, men whose conscience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole, men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall” (Education, p. 57:3).

    The last several weeks I have been studying the Biblical principles this passage sets forth. If there was ever a time that we needed leaders like Moses, Joshua, Elijah, Esther, Samuel, Daniel, Peter, or Paul it is now.

    If church leadership is so bound about and weak kneed that they feel incapable of dealing promptly with the growing cancer in the church–unable to cut it out–then that leadership, in honesty and integrity of heart need to surrender their positions to those who will deal with these issues. They were put in these positions to lead God’s people not just to hold a position of “importance”. This is the responsibility they took. If they are unable to fulfill their responsibility then let them surrender their positions to someone who will.




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  12. Thank you Sean.

    The teaching of evolution, the acceptance of homosexuality as a legitimate lifestyle, and the promotion of new age spirituality are three fronts the church is being attacked on. Unfortunately the attack is coming from within. I am reminded of what EGW says…the church appears about to fall, but does not fall… the sinners in Zion are sifted out…this is a painful process.

    We are not sufficient for these things. May God bless the leadership and the members. Now as we enter what is probably the last decade in human history, we must unite under the banner of truth to give the trumpet a certain sound.

    Happy New Year fellow Educate Truth readers.




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  13. It would be very easy to go off on a tangent and discuss what constitutes Babylon, and what constitutes the ‘Church’. That would not be appropriate in this forum.

    I agree Jonathan, that the Adventist Church, is not Babylon, per se. Some people in it do hold to babylonish ideas, but the church fundamentally holds to Biblical doctrines (yes, even the administrators, Eugene).

    That being said, I don’t think the SDA ‘church'(militant) is the ‘Church’ of Revelation (triumphant), noting Christ’s own words to the Samaritan woman (the one that had five husbands)in John 4:20-24:

    “4:20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
    4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
    4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
    4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
    4:24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.”

    Christ could have said the same thing about the SDA church, and other denominations:
    “The hour cometh when ye shall neither in this church (non-SDA church), nor yet in the SDA church worship the Father….God [is] a spirit. They that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.”

    For Eugene to imply the SDA church is Babylon, however, is way off too.




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  14. This issue makes me so sad. This is one of the (many) reasons I homeschool. This is why our schools are closing down. We can’t trust the leadership to make proper decisions, to follow SOP, to follow Scripture, or to teach truth. I will pray for them, I will pray for the church, as I do daily. But it hurts my heart to see such blasphemy being taught as “truth” to our children. The SDA church has the resources. Not having our own science curriculum, and relying on worldly standards of education, is simply without excuse.




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  15. JohnB: For Eugene to imply the SDA church is Babylon, however, is way off too.

    I did not imply that the SDA Church is Babylon. I simply agreed with Sister White’s characterization of the SDA leadership at the endtime.

    “When the call is made for those who will be on the Lord’s side to make a decided move to vindicate the right, they will manifest their true position. Those who have been nearly all their lives controlled by a spirit as foreign to the Spirit of God as was Achan’s will be very passive when the time comes for decided action on the part of all. They will not claim to be on either side. The power of Satan has so long held them that they seem blinded and have no inclination to stand in defense of right. If they do not take a determined course on the wrong side, it is not because they have a clear sense of the right, but because they dare not.

    “God will not be trifled with. It is in the time of conflict that the true colors should be fling to the breeze. It is then that the standard-bearers need to be firm and let their true position be known. It is then that the skill of every true soldier for the right is tested. Shirkers can never wear the laurels of victory. Those who are true and loyal will not conceal the fact, but will put heart and might into the work, and venture their all in the struggle, let the battle turn as it will. God is a sin-hating God. And those who encourage the sinner, saying, It is well with thee, God will curse.” 3T 272.

    “Here we see that the church—the Lord’s sanctuary—was the first to feel the stroke of the wrath of God. The ancient men, those to whom God had given great light and who had stood as guardians of the spiritual interests of the people, had betrayed their trust. They had taken the position that we need not look for miracles and the marked manifestation of God’s power as in former days. Times have changed. These words strengthen their unbelief, and they say: The Lord will not do good, neither will He do evil. He is too merciful to visit His people in judgment. Thus ‘Peace and safety’ is the cry from men who will never again lift up their voice like a trumpet to show God’s people their transgressions and the house of Jacob their sins. These dumb dogs that would not bark are the ones who feel the just vengeance of an offended God. Men, maidens, and little children all perish together.” 5T 211.

    “No superiority of rank, dignity, or worldly wisdom, no position in sacred office, will preserve men from sacrificing principle when left to their own deceitful hearts. Those who have been regarded as worthy and righteous prove to be ringleaders in apostasy and examples in indifference and in the abuse of God’s mercies. Their wicked course He will tolerate no longer, and in His wrath He deals with them without mercy.” 5T 212.




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  16. As I have been thinking about this issue I have come to a conclusion. This idea of a “study group” commissioned to somehow build a curriculum that is a scientifically rigorous affirmation of SDA teachings is worse than a stalling tactic. The fact is that the teachers in question (not only at La Sierra) will NEVER see scientific evidence as affirming what the Bible says and the SDA church teaches. And, those of us who trust the Bible will never see “enough evidence” from the uniformitarian, naturalistic version of science to disbelieve the God we know personally.

    To put it simply, the current mix of scientific faculty found at our institutions will NEVER come to anything remotely resembling agreement on such a curriculum. Gary Bradley and Art Chadwick could never ever teach from the same syllabus. Our leadership has absolutely no choice but to change personnel if they wish to bring the teaching of theistic evolution to an end. I pray that this will be understood and that action will come.

    George Hilton




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  17. JohnB: It would be very easy to go off on a tangent and discuss what constitutes Babylon, and what constitutes the ‘Church’.That would not be appropriate in this forum.I agree Jonathan, that the Adventist Church, is not Babylon, per se.Some people in it do hold to babylonish ideas, but the church fundamentally holds to Biblical doctrines (yes, even the administrators, Eugene).That being said, I don’t think the SDA ‘church’(militant) is the ‘Church’ of Revelation (triumphant), noting Christ’s own words to the Samaritan woman (the one that had five husbands)in John 4:20-24:“4:20Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.4:21Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.4:22Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.4:23But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.4:24God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.”Christ could have said the same thing about the SDA church, and other denominations:
    “The hour cometh when ye shall neither in this church (non-SDA church), nor yet in the SDA church worship the Father….God [is] a spirit.They that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.”For Eugene to imply the SDA church is Babylon, however, is way off too.  

    I have an interesting study that shows the parallels between Jesus and the Samaritan woman and the harlot in Revelation 17. Study it and you will see the comparisons (harlots, worship on mountain, seven husbands {5 past, current one is not, seventh is not yet}, come [call] out of the city) Samaritans have seven gods which were worshipped on high places 2 Kings 17:30-31. They were not Israelites but Babylonian peoples brought to Israel by the Assyrians.

    BTW, this is one of the keys to Revelation 17 that our seminarians find so hard to crack. Our online prophecy group got great insight some 2 or 3 years ago.

    I just want to point out that in this thread I was responding to John Haase who implied that, it was not Eugene. No doubt Eugene has written something along those lines, though.

    Yet to teach evolution is true is clearly and without a doubt the worst sin there is. For that has consequences:

    1) God is a liar – He did not make the world
    2) Even if He did, He did not do it in a literal 7-day week
    3) God did not make the world because He does not exist
    4) God does not exist and Christians have accomplished the greatest event ever possible – they created God.
    5) Since Christians created a non existent God they are a people most pitiable, miserable and deranged, certainly not of the fittest.
    6) Give the state of Christians, eugenics should be revisited
    7) Hitler all over again




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  18. George Hilton: As I have been thinking about this issue I have come to a conclusion. This idea of a “study group” commissioned to somehow build a curriculum that is a scientifically rigorous affirmation of SDA teachings is worse than a stalling tactic. The fact is that the teachers in question (not only at La Sierra) will NEVER see scientific evidence as affirming what the Bible says and the SDA church teaches. And, those of us who trust the Bible will never see “enough evidence” from the uniformitarian, naturalistic version of science to disbelieve the God we know personally.To put it simply, the current mix of scientific faculty found at our institutions will NEVER come to anything remotely resembling agreement on such a curriculum. Gary Bradley and Art Chadwick could never ever teach from the same syllabus. Our leadership has absolutely no choice but to change personnel if they wish to bring the teaching of theistic evolution to an end. I pray that this will be understood and that action will come.George Hilton  

    I agree with you and if they cannot find the teachers who are loyal to the Bible then drop the biology programmes altogether. It is better to go thirsty than to drink sea water. It is certainly better to go hungry than to eat poison.




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  19. Kristi: This issue makes me so sad.This is one of the (many) reasons I homeschool.This is why our schools are closing down.We can’t trust the leadership to make proper decisions, to follow SOP, to follow Scripture, or to teach truth.I will pray for them, I will pray for the church, as I do daily.But it hurts my heart to see such blasphemy being taught as “truth” to our children.The SDA church has the resources.Not having our own science curriculum, and relying on worldly standards of education, is simply without excuse.  

    2 Kings 16:10-14
    10 And king Ahaz went to Damascus to meet Tiglathpileser king of Assyria, and saw an altar that was at Damascus: and king Ahaz sent to Urijah the priest the fashion of the altar, and the pattern of it, according to all the workmanship thereof.
    11 And Urijah the priest built an altar according to all that king Ahaz had sent from Damascus: so Urijah the priest made it against king Ahaz came from Damascus.
    12 And when the king was come from Damascus, the king saw the altar: and the king approached to the altar, and offered thereon.
    13 And he burnt his burnt offering and his meat offering, and poured his drink offering, and sprinkled the blood of his peace offerings, upon the altar.
    14 And he brought also the brasen altar, which was before the LORD, from the forefront of the house, from between the altar and the house of the LORD, and put it on the north side of the altar.

    History repeats itself. The people who supposedly worship the Creator get fascinated by the trinkets, baubles and idols of the heathen and get immersed in their filth (Read Isa 3-4)




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  20. Brian Wilson: Thank you Sean.The teaching of evolution, the acceptance of homosexuality as a legitimate lifestyle, and the promotion of new age spirituality are three fronts the church is being attacked on.Unfortunately the attack is coming from within.I am reminded of what EGW says…the church appears about to fall, but does not fall… the sinners in Zion are sifted out…this is a painful process.We are not sufficient for these things.May God bless the leadership and the members.Now as we enter what is probably the last decade in human history, we must unite under the banner of truth to give the trumpet a certain sound.Happy New Year fellow Educate Truth readers.  

    Could these be the three unclean spirits?

    Revelation 16:13-14
    13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
    14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

    The Bible often refers to sexual immorality as uncleanness and it would not be surprising if this is a foretaste of the demonic outpouring after the plagues are poured out.

    BTW, I do know that the three unclean spirits are not yet seen (at least in their devastating effect) since the plagues have not yet been poured out.




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  21. Greg Stearman: “The greatest want of the world is the want of men—men who will not be bought or sold, men who in their inmost souls are true and honest, men who do not fear to call sin by its right name, men whose conscience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole, men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall” (Education, p. 57:3).The last several weeks I have been studying the Biblical principles this passage sets forth. If there was ever a time that we needed leaders like Moses, Joshua, Elijah, Esther, Samuel, Daniel, Peter, or Paul it is now.If church leadership is so bound about and weak kneed that they feel incapable of dealing promptly with the growing cancer in the church–unable to cut it out–then that leadership, in honesty and integrity of heart need to surrender their positions to those who will deal with these issues. They were put in these positions to lead God’s people not just to hold a position of “importance”. This is the responsibility they took. If they are unable to fulfill their responsibility then let them surrender their positions to someone who will.  

    Guess what? Stepping out in faith and trusting the Lord irregardless of the backlash or consequence is one of the greatest things we can experience.

    Nothing is so exhilarating as to know that the Lord is the One who provides for you all the way and He is there to protect you all the time.

    If (and I say if) the leaders trust their cushy jobs and elections and all that then they have fallen from grace and need to be reconverted. Whenever we believe we must rely on the system and our fellow beings we have failed to live up to the requirements of heaven.

    Christ is our sufficiency, He is our provider, our caretaker, our companion and He is closer than a brother.

    I therefore issue a challenge to any leader of high enough stature to influence this dilemma.

    Get off your comfortable bed and cry aloud that there is sin in the church in allowing evolution to be taught and nurtured. Do it loudly, consistently and deliberately. Then take whatever step in your power to have it remedied without delay.

    If you do this, trusting in Christ to do the rest, your actions will be justified.

    if you do not:

    Judges 5:23 Curse ye Meroz, said the angel of the LORD, curse ye bitterly the inhabitants thereof; because they came not to the help of the LORD, to the help of the LORD against the mighty.




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  22. @Eugene Shubert:
    Those quotes make me tremble. We now must wonder if the leaders have seen them. Could it be that Ellen White’s counsel has been forgotten or ignored by the leaders?

    As a local church leader myself, I often get courage and guidance from her to deal with the issues in the church.




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  23. Folks, let us hold together in such a time as this. We do not believe that this church is Babylon, or any part of it. Let’s not go down that diversionary path, let us stick to the matter at hand-the corrupting of our God given church by some leaders in our institutions, and some leaders amongst us. This whole exercise admits of errors in our denomination; we see it and accept the fact; however, we are not daunted, nor deluded to imagine that we have therefore become Babylon and have been cast out by God. The prophetess has assured us that this church will go through to victory while the deceivers will be shaken out. I would like to point out that this church, while operating from the top down, is not built from the top down, but from the bottom up. It is the grass roots that in the main hold the power; so the grass roots must call the leaders to accountability; and if the leaders refuse, thinking that they have the divine right to be in their positions, then the constituency must remove them. And how is it done? It must be done by the vote, and by refusing to fund any of our institutions that support heresy. This is simply stated but difficult to accomplish; nevertheless it can be done and we should bend our energies in this direction in discussion with the relevant leadership. It is time they stood up and took notice of the voice of the membership through whom they have their very existence.




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  24. John Hasse: Rev 18:4 does not tell us to reform ‘the church’ or even to pray for it…. but to ‘come out of it’. No doubt you don’t really care what YAHUSHUA, or a follower of His says, but rather are only interested in members of ‘the structure’. So be it.  

    Come out of what church? The 7th Day Adventist Church is still the remnant church, and will be until Jesus comes.

      The Church Not to Be Broken Up

      Again I say, The Lord hath not spoken by any messenger who calls the church that keeps the commandments of God, Babylon. True, there are tares with the wheat; but Christ said He would send His angels to first gather the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into the garner. I know that the Lord loves His church. It is not to be disorganized or broken up into independent atoms. There is not the least consistency in this; there is not the least evidence that such a thing will be. Those who shall heed this false message and try to leaven others will be deceived and prepared to receive advanced delusions, and they will come to nought. {2SM 68.3}

    Prophecy tells us the church will appear to fall, but will not. When we have spineless leadership that cannot figure out what do do, and lacks the courage to act upon their convictions, this travesty of the denial of the Word of the Eternal God will continue.

    Weak sentimentalism is no substitute for real love. As love: Rejoices not in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth. why cannot the Conference “leaders” just walk over to the school, fire the president and the 4 professors and whoever else cannot remember who created the earth in a week.

    Unbelief kept the children of Israel out of the promised land for 40 years; sadly, unbelief will keep most of the earths inhabitants out of heaven. We should not let the evil leaven of those in “charge” influence our young people for death. Get them out now! God Bless! Steve




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  25. Jonathan Smith: The Bible often refers to sexual immorality as uncleanness and it would not be surprising if this is a foretaste of the demonic outpouring after the plagues are poured out.

    BTW, I do know that the three unclean spirits are not yet seen (at least in their devastating effect) since the plagues have not yet been poured out.  

    I would call evolution sorcery. some are being beguiled by the serpent to believe fables and doctrines of devils.

    Rev.18:23 And the light of a lamp shall shine no more at all in you; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in you: for your merchants were the great men of the earth; for by your sorceries were all nations deceived.

    The word for sorcery, pharmakeia; meaning medication, pharmacies, which is anything that medicates the mind, and Satan possesses it for that time. The mind is enchanted and medicated by evolution, it is impossible to break free except through Christ.

    Inferences erroneously drawn from facts observed in nature have, however, led to supposed conflict between science and revelation; and in the effort to restore harmony, interpretations of Scripture have been adopted that undermine and destroy the force of the word of God. Geology has been thought to contradict the literal interpretation of the Mosaic record of the creation. Millions of years, it is claimed, were required for the evolution of the earth from chaos; and in order to accommodate the Bible to this supposed revelation of science, the days of creation are assumed to have been vast, indefinite periods, covering thousands or even millions of years.

    {Ed 128.2}
    Such a conclusion is wholly uncalled for. The Bible record is in harmony with itself and with the teaching of nature. Of the first day employed in the work of creation is given the record, “The evening and the morning were the first day.” Genesis 1:5. And the same in substance is said of each of the first six days of creation week. Each of these periods Inspiration declares to have been a day consisting of evening and morning, like every other day since that time. In regard to the work of creation itself the divine testimony is, “He spake, and it was done; He commanded, and it stood fast.” Psalm 33:9. With Him who could thus call into existence unnumbered worlds, how long a time would be required for the evolution of the earth from chaos? In order to account for His works, must we do violence to His word? {Ed 129.1}

    It is true that remains found in the earth testify to the existence of men, animals, and plants much larger than any now known. These are regarded as proving the existence of vegetable and animal life prior to the time of the Mosaic record. But concerning these things Bible history furnishes ample explanation. Before the Flood the development of vegetable and animal life was immeasurably superior to that which has since been known. At the Flood the surface of the earth was broken up, marked changes took place, and in the re-formation of the earth’s crust were preserved many evidences of the life previously existing. The vast forests buried in the earth at the time of the Flood, and since changed to coal, form the extensive coal fields, and yield the supplies of oil that minister to our comfort and convenience today. These things, as they are brought to light, are so many witnesses mutely testifying to the truth of the word of God.

    {Ed 129.2}
    Akin to the theory concerning the evolution of the earth is that which attributes to an ascending line of germs, mollusks, and quadrupeds the evolution of man, the crowning glory of the creation. {Ed 130.1}




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  26. @Steve Billiter:

    It may indeed be God’s best plan for the SDA church to be the bearer of His message to the last generation. But please not the history of God’s dealings with Israel. That which God declared through His prophet to be His intention for Israel did not come to pass because of the loss of faith, first by the leaders, and then followed by the people into apostasy. And all of Israel will be saved – but not the national identity, but the spiritual identity is what God looks upon. The church appears to be falling, and the denomination may indeed sell out to the wise of this world, but the church, which has always been composed of faithful souls, will not fall but will triumph beyond the catastrophe of denominational failure. Pastor is a shining example of a faithful shepherd. May his tribe increase!




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  27. @Brian Wilson:

    I agree with you Brian. The multi-prong attack against Christians, including SDA, s against the objective verity of the scriptures. The fundamental issue is hermeneutics. If we surrender an inch to higher criticism, we find ourselves walking down the roadway where the scenery is strewn with the carcasses of ancient verities. The acceptance of the wisdom of this world ahead of a Bible that is considered by ‘wise men’ to be a human production touched by the divine, rather than the objective word of God leads naturally, logically, and inevitably to an adjustment of our beliefs to suit and fit in with the enlightened thinking of our day. A long time ago the separate but equal roles of men and women in the home and the church were discarded, and the bones lie beside the path we travel. A natural sequel to that slight departure is the acceptance of the homo-sexual life-style, and other ‘enlightened’ attitudes that are gaining rapid acceptance, especially among those who have the benefit of ‘higher education’. With the benefits of this hermeneutic there is no reason for us to cling so tenaciously to the seventh-day Sabbath, and we can finally cease being so peculiar and enjoy the approval of fellow Christians of the world.




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  28. @Jonathan Smith:

    1) God is a liar – He did not make the world
    2) Even if He did, He did not do it in a literal 7-day week
    3) God did not make the world because He does not exist
    4) God does not exist and Christians have accomplished the greatest event ever possible – they created God.
    5) Since Christians created a non existent God they are a people most pitiable, miserable and deranged, certainly not of the fittest.
    6) Give the state of Christians, eugenics should be revisited
    7) Hitler all over again

    You understand that this ‘logic’ is certifiably insane, right? The step between 4 and 5 is particularly psychotic, but every step on the chain involves so many assumptions, associations and nonexistent connections that there is zero connection between each step, let alone between the premises and the conclusion. And then of course there’s the Godwin’s Law issue of comparisons with Hitler…

    (And, by the way Shane, speaking to you as moderator of the site, I’m not sure multiple consecutive posts by the same poster copying and pasting material from other places is really conducive to productive discussion…)

    God is a God of order and reason, who asks us to reason with him. These massed displays of wilful unreason do not bring him credit.




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  29. I am reminded of a quote by EGW I read many years ago – something like this: If the church leadership fails, the Jesus Christ will personally take over! He is taking over…




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  30. Bravus: @Jonathan Smith:You understand that this ‘logic’ is certifiably insane, right? The step between 4 and 5 is particularly psychotic, but every step on the chain involves so many assumptions, associations and nonexistent connections that there is zero connection between each step, let alone between the premises and the conclusion. And then of course there’s the Godwin’s Law issue of comparisons with Hitler…(And, by the way Shane, speaking to you as moderator of the site, I’m not sure multiple consecutive posts by the same poster copying and pasting material from other places is really conducive to productive discussion…)God is a God of order and reason, who asks us to reason with him. These massed displays of wilful unreason do not bring him credit.  

    Nowhere did I say that my points represented a sequence. If that is your belief please stand corrected. It may be that there are a few sequences there but that was not my intention to make it so, overall.

    And this conclusion of yours is the way evolutionists draw conclusions. They make an observation, they then try to fit it in their paradigms and ideologies.

    As for me copying and posting many things. This forum/blog is “Educate Truth”. Thus if I have found truth that can educate others, then it will be posted.

    Next, multiple copies and posts that support creationism and expose evolutionism are far better than one brief comment or discussion that supports evolutionism.




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  31. The ‘Hitler’ comment only makes any sense at all (of a crazy sort) in relation to the eugenics point in the previous line… which is what led me to the conclusion. I stand corrected, anyway: there was no logic there to seek.




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  32. Bravus: The ‘Hitler’ comment only makes any sense at all (of a crazy sort) in relation to the eugenics point in the previous line… which is what led me to the conclusion. I stand corrected, anyway: there was no logic there to seek.  

    Well Bravus,

    I perhaps do not communicate as well as many others and indeed my logic may be faulty. That I do concede. Yet when it comes to the teaching of evolution and the teaching of the Bible, I find no occasion for the two to agree.

    So if you are good at seeking and identifying logic, how can you be holding on to two polar opposites? Do the logical thing and choose to believe God’s plain and simple word and discard the evolution rebellion.

    These two cannot marry, they cannot comingle, they cannot mix. Like fire and water they are permanent enemies. Just like how fire can dry up water (like at the end of this world) or like how water can put out any fire (like what happened in the Flood) so will evolution and theism war in you until only one is dominant. If you think you can hold to the two, then you are included in the group accused by Ellen White as having disguised infidelity.

    And the only disguise there is, is to yourself. So logically speaking you have to choose one. Since Jesus died for you, His preference is thus for you to choose the Bible and reject evolution. His preference is my preference. To help you, note this observation Jesus made:

    Matthew 19:4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,

    Here Jesus refutes completely any evolutionary process. Male and female were made by God (Him) in the beginning. Ponder on this text and see.

    Also, stated another way, Jesus states it as creation and not evolution:

    Mark 10:6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.

    So you have no excuse, being a man of logic, to hold on to evolution.




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  33. @John Hasse: Concerning john Hasse’s comment that the Seventh-day Adventist Church is Babylon.

    “To claim the Seventh-day Adventist church is Babylon, is to make the same claim as does Satan.” RH Aug. 29, 1893; TM 42

    “…But we have never had a message that the Lord would disorganize the church. We have never had the prophecy concerning Babylon applied to the Seventh-day Adventist church, or been informed that the ‘loud cry’ consisted in calling God’s people to come out of her; for this is not God’s plan concerning Israel….
    “The world has a light constantly shining upon them, because this people honor God in keeping His commandments. Now can we expect that a message would be true that would designate as Babylon the people for whom God has done so much? Hell would triumph should such a message be received, and the would would be strengthened in iniquity. All the reproaches which Satan has cast upon the character of God, would appear as truth, and the conclusion would be made that God has no chosen or organized church in the world. Oh what a triumph would this be to Satan, and his confederacy of evil!”




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  34. I am a SDA pastor. I have read the “Open Letter to …” twice now as I have been reading and following earlier letters and updates on this important topic. I can imagine that this topic subject could lead to a broader look at our entire secondary system and take in all our colleges. Additional topics that need to be explored but limited too are our mission and the use of non-SDA teachers and the growing trend to draw in more and more non-SDA students to boost enrolement numbers.

    But on a personal level, I see in this discussion a call to examine my own life and see how it is in harmony with the prophetic gift- both the Bible and S of P. I believe in accountability on the highest levels, but I also want to be sure while I am holding others accountable, I am living the truth myself on all levels. When Jesus comes many will be lost, but I want to be saved. These are indeed fearful times. May the Lord help us and give us champions to stand up against the flood at all levels.




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  35. Why haven’t these professors been dismissed! Would a Pastor be able to teach in the SDA church that maybe Sunday is now the day of rest, I think not!! Come on General Conference, this is a serious issue!!




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  36. I propose that those who refer to themselves as “Progressive Seventh-day Adventists, be allowed to form their own organization with that name, and with the blessing of the General Conference (meaning no trademark suit) after all we have the “Reform Seventh-day Adventist Church, why not the antithesis. I mean the two extremes, and then in true American fashion we could choose which one we believe to represent our opinions. This has never been about tolerance, or academic freedom. This is totally and completely about loyalty. It is about mission, and the purpose that Seventh-day Adventist Church Schools were established. Teachers who cannot instruct their students in historic Adventism both religiously and scientifically should be urged to seek employment elsewhere, and if they don’t accept that urging then the should be dismissed. As a Seventh-day Adventist minister if I were teaching things that are categorically opposed to the teaching of the church I should be urged to leave, or be fired. There are realms of theology and orthodoxy that can vary from person to person, from minister to minister, but on the fundamentals, there should be unanimity or intellectual honesty demands that one seek to do something else for a living.

    This is not rocket science. Those of you on this blog that have migrated from ATODAY and Spectrum, would you not be served better by your own organization instead of this pretended membership in an organization that you fundamentally believe to be in ignorance and error? Is it not the height of hypocrisy to remain in said organization while undermining the very foundation upon which it is founded? “Hypocrisy is the act of persistently pretending to hold beliefs, opinions, virtues, feelings, qualities, or standards that one does not actually hold. Hypocrisy is thus a kind of lie.hypocrisy may come from a desire to hide from others actual motives or feelings. Is not this perhaps the underlying motive”. “Quoted from that paragon of trustworthy information “Wikipeda” the Miriam Webster Dictionary defines a hypocrite as: hyp•o•crite Function: noun Etymology: Middle English ypocrite, from Anglo-French, from Late Latin hypocrita, from Greek hypokritēs actor, hypocrite, from hypokrinesthaiDate: 13th century 1 : a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion 2 : a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs (baptismal vows) or feelings. By trying to remake the science as accepted by the Seventh-day Adventist Church, and now reaffirmed by the General Conference President and many other Adventist Institutions of Higher Education, is not continued membership in such an organization while undermining it’s very values (which is a six day creation week, short age earth, upon which the Sabbath is a fundamental part) hypocritical? Of course each must answer that for himself.

    I think Wikapedia’s explanation to be accurate in that those who claim to be progressive Seventh-day Adventists are in reality hiding from others their actual motives which in my opinion is to destroy the Seventh-day Adventist Church as we historically know it.
    Bravis and others of his persuasion may be Sabbatarians, but they certainly are not Seventh-day Adventists in the sense of the 28 fundamental beliefs. I believe we have attempted to make the tent too big, and too inclusive so much so that you can believe most anything you like, and still claim to be a Seventh-day Adventist. Again, I would be my desire that all of you claiming to be progressives leave the rest of us poor ignorant, misguided and woefully naive Seventh-day Adventists alone and go somewhere else to play tiddlywinks with your so called intellectuality. I agree that a complete examination of that which is taught needs to be reviewed by both educators, administrators, and laity. There is far more taught in some of our institutions of higher learning that would shock the average grass roots Seventh-day Adventist.

    Earlier on this blog I suggested that perhaps our colleges and universities had outlived their usefulness. Perhaps it is time to encourage our young people to obtain their education from secular institutions. At least when they attend them they do so with their guard up knowing that not everything they will be taught is the truth. Then perhaps we could build Seventh-day Adventist Campus Centers like many other denominations off campus that could have theological classes to train our youth in Seventh-day Adventist beliefs. Doing this could even become a major outreach of the church. Besides the cost would me much less both in tuition, and in property management.




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  37. It is encouraging to see people passionately defending the faith and the mission of our movement. I know we have differences and some of them have been discussed but if we truly are being led of the Spirit these differences will indeed disappear.

    What we are seeing now at LSU is the iceberg that we only experienced the tip of decades ago, but as a people were too deep in sleep to recognize. After attending Andrews University and Walla Walla College I became 99% an atheist. Why? Because of the contradiction in the teachings and practices among the professors and administrators with the “Faith once delivered to the saints.” The power and divinity of God were being questioned even 35 years ago and as a student my faith was severely undermined. I left the denomination and became mired in the world’s misery. It was after I found a very old book on bible prophecy that proved the existence and power of God using prophecy and secular history that I was drawn to become a believer in God and the Adventist movement again.

    My heart goes out to these poor students who are attending these schools and are having their faith destroyed by these leaders who abuse their positions to further their own Godless agendas. We need to pray not only for these leaders and educators that they will repent but also for their victims that God will protect them!




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  38. @Pastor Randy Brehms: The good thing about Bravus is that he stays around to participate in the discussion. I believe he is looking for some real strong argument to squash his faith in evolution forever so he can come back to true Bible faith.

    Pray for him therefore. As one who attended a SDA college at undergrad he must have ingested something there to trigger his bad flirt with the enemy. I guess it is not hard to come out of his system. Now working in a secular university no doubt among evolutionists he is probably bombarded regularly with the poison. Keep him in your prayers.




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  39. I was born and raised in Ann Arbor, MI, went to secular schools through an MS in the biological sciences. After that, I was converted to Adventist Christianity at age 30. I have lived the deception of Evolution, and have thoroughly examined the scientific and theological claims of both sides. I have written two letters published in the Ann Arbor News exposing the Lie of Evolution. I argued that evolution is faith just as is creationism and both should be taken out of science class. Science is about observation and no modern scientist observed the origin of life on planet earth.

    Don’t get me wrong, I believe that the heavens declare the glory of God (Psalm 19) and all the observable evidence lines up with the history given by the Bible. Evolution and Creationism may moré properly be taught in philosophy, religion, or comparative origins class. This may be as true for a secular school as well as an SDA school. SDA schools should teach biblical creationism as the only accepted explanation!

    I greatly applaud Sean Pittman, Shane Hilde and Educate Truth for exposing Evolution in our institutions. Love believes all things. (1 Cor. 13:8) So Sean might understand that even though LSU science professors are stealing from their employer the pay-check, this is as the result of creeping compromise. They likely do not view it as stealing – but as Pastor Brehms puts it: enlightening us “woefully naive Seventh-day Adventists”. I can tell you from my interactions with the Evolution community in Ann Arbor, they have evangelistic fervor. They know how high the stakes are. We should even better.

    I recommend we get to work on this ice berg not at its tip but at the base. Evolution is the base. Tell the Science staff at LSU to either teach Biblical creationism in their classes or teach nothing about origins at all. Set up a class teaching the scientific model for creationism, taught by a Biblical creationist, and teach observational science in every other science class. The most loving approach to faculty promoting Evolution at LSU: “You are woefully ignorant on this topic – even at the peril of your eternal standing with the God of Scripture. Repent or we are releasing you into Satan’s pasture” – according to the discipline outlined in 1 Corinthians 5.

    1 Corinthians 5:4 “When you are assembled in the name of our Lord Jesus and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5 hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature[a] may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord.” Employing a secular science educator to teach observational science is one thing. Permitting them to preach the false gospel of Evolution in an SDA institution destroys the ENTIRE foundation. Let’s keep after the leaders to act.




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  40. “To claim the Seventh-day Adventist church is Babylon, is to make the same claim as does Satan.” RH Aug. 29, 1893; TM 42 Thank you, Marie.

    Gentlemen, Ladies, Let us stay the course. We have no time in this discussion for heretical views on our beloved church, weak and defective as it may be. Our Eyes are upon the Lord, and His Eyes are upon this church, the apple of his eye. I just had a special season of prayer in one of my churches as we enter this New Year. Let us press home the matter of false teachers in our institutions before the leaders with all urgency. The Lord will soon shake this church that only those that are faithful will remain. We want all on board, yet sadly as we see, that will not happen; but we must not be discouraged nor fainthearted. We must gather warmth from the coldness of others, courage from their cowardice, and loyalty from their treason 5T 136. To stand in defense of the truth and righteousness when the majority forsake us, to fight the battles of the Lord when champions are few..this is the test 5T 136. let us proceed with the matter at hand before the gates of our institutions and General Conference until there is change. God will bring about change. Press on my friends.




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  41. I finished reading the book of Judges last night. The conditions that gave rise to the terrible ending of that book didn’t happen overnight. They were arrived at step by step.

    And sodomy and rape are not more serious in nature than teaching evolution and my implication there is no Sabbath and no real Creator. The end result of that kind of thinking is the book of Judges and the world at the end of time.

    But it is important for us to recognize no SDA embrasses evolution overnight. There has to be a process that changes the thinking, like layers of an onion. One of those layers is entertainment. Many of our members watch movies like Star Wars and Star Trek that are based on the premise that there is no Creator God and all the universe is in the same mess as we are. Some may have heard the song by one of the Beatles “Imagine there is no Heaven,” well, I for one can not imagine anything more frigthening than that, but that is what entertainment is largely built on. My point is, while we demand accountability of our leaders and educators we ourselves need to be sure we are not planting the seeds that give rise to evolutionary thinking by the things we do on the local at home level of of our religious life.

    In the book of Judges the tribes came together and lamented the conditoins that gave rise to those events at the end of Judges. So we also need to be sure we are living the truth as it is in Jesus. “Lord, is it I?”

    I was on a nature walk one Sabbath afternoon that was oranized by a well respected local elder in a Michigan church. He was well educated and somewhat of a naturalist and early in the walk he stopped to show us a plant and began talking how some 10,000 years ago…. As a visiting pastor on that hike I challenged his comment and asked him to stay within the bibical account as given to us in the Bible and SofP. We had some new members in the group and I did not want them confused on the issue and to be silent on the issue would have been the same as giving my consent to his comments. He was startled-I think it was the first time anyone had challenged him on his presentation or views- but that local elder has had influence over the years spreading the seeds of what we are seeing today.

    What we see in high places is often seen in low places too. That is why I suggest we all need to examine ourselves to be sure we are in the truth as much as we want our leaders to be in the truth. It does not good to point the finger at LSU professors and then watch movies at home based on the same lies.

    -Doug Carlson, MI Conf. pastor.

    Correction to my post above: I meant to say “Not limited to” in regards to the areas on our college that need to be looked at. And I must add, it is getting very difficult to encourage our SDA youth to go to our colleges these days.




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  42. I am not pleased with biology teachers in our colleges that promote evolution to any degree, but I am also amazed how a teacher could stand in front of a classroom with a majority of SDA students (fair assumption?)and present evolutionary ideas and not be challenged. I must admit I am as disappointed in the quality of our SDA students as I am in the teachers in question. Has our education system turned out spineless youth with no understanding of truth and the issues involved with our positions as a church?

    If these two(?)LSU teachers were removed, would it make a great deal of difference? Would the spiritual life at LSU be improved? Would the students be more spiritual, would it draw a better grade of SDA youth to the campus? I am suggesting a much deeper reaction to this problem is needed. With our youth properly educated in the lower levels those teachers would be expelled from the classroom by the studentsthemselves who would not put up with such nonsense.

    Don’t misunderstand me, I believe those teachers should be dismissed, but that would not be the end of the problem. We had an English teacher at Andrews for years that openly spoke against Ellen White. A speech teacher that was very secular and had no business being a teacher at Andrews. I could add to the list. And sone of you that came from other SDA colleges- I would guess you could make a list, too.

    When my son and daugther-in-law arrived at LLU to begin their medical studies not that long ago they were told by their SDA ethics/spiritual teacher that first year medical students are required to take that he did not believe Ellen White was inspired and would now except any quotes from her in his class.

    Two teachers atLSU may be only the tip of the iceberg. That is why I have suggested a much deeper response is needed than just the firing of two teachers. Read carefully 1 Sam 4- 8 (I believe). This is the chapter about Eli and his sons and the loss of the ark to the Philistines and its return and how 20 years later the Lord responded to the repentence of Israel and thundered from heaven and killed a great number of Philistines on the very field where the ark was taken from them. PP has some wonderful commentary on this.

    Sure, get rid of two biology teachers at LSU but what about the deeper, broader problem? It would be wonderful to see the camp of modern Israel come together and weep before the Lord because of these conditions at LSU and maybe other colleges, and then see what He would do? Has anyone forgotten how the Lord dealt with Eli’s two sons? The Lord has ways to take care of his church- the Lord knows how to “fire” unfaithful workers.




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  43. In my margins next to the story of Achan in Joshua 7 I have this verse written:

    There is sin in the camp,
    There is treason today!
    Is it in me? Is it in me?
    There is cause in our ranks for defeat and delay;
    It is, O Lord, in me?

    Something of selfishness, garments or gold,
    Something of hindrance in young or in old,
    Something why God doth His blessing withhold;
    Is it, O Lord, in me?
    Is it in me? Is it in me?
    Is it, O Lord, in me?

    The time has come for a higher kind of revival and reformation than we are used to. Read Psalm 24: 6 carefully in light of the entire chapter.

    -Doug Carlson, Pastor MI Conf.
    Assoc at the Battle Creek Tab., Battle Creek, MI




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  44. @Doug Carlson: I am also surprised that more students have not spoken up publicly. I have many friends who testify to the truth of what is happening, but they never spoke up. As it stands only two students have come forward.

    When I was a student I didn’t make a big deal about it. I’m not sure why. I remember talking to my parents about it. I was very shocked. I regret not doing anything about it. I suppose this website is one way I’m making up for my lack during my time at LSU.




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  45. Doug,

    You ask, “Has our education system turned out spineless youth with no understanding of truth and the issues involved with our positions as a church?” That is an excellent point. The students, each and every one of them, should be open and verbal, continually. When I was in public high school we had a teacher that would peddle his evolution. When he did, almost the whole class openly objected. We did not allow him to peddle his garbage. Students brought their Bibles to his class. Our grades suffered but the teacher was replaced. I believe if he had not been fired he would have left anyway because of the disruption from us as students. He tried to silence us but we would not be silenced. We’re speaking about a secular school.

    Also, I might mention that the problem of evolution doesn’t just sort of come to life at the university level. It is being peddled at the lower levels too, another reason the students are less likely to object since they are already conditioned to listen to it. Parents need to be more involved in what their kids, younger and older alike, are being feed.

    Bill




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  46. @Shane Hilde:

    Do not think LSU is alone. While I was finishing a MA in Pastoral Min in the mid 90s one seminary teacher we had openly questioned to us (the class of a handful of students) that there was a biology teacher on the undergrad level who ha no business being at andrews- that he taught evolution and did not uphold SDA standards. I do not know that biology teacher’s name. Though the seminary teacher was bold enough to question why he was employed at AU he was not bold enough to give us the teacher’s name. The problem you are highlighting is wide spread and needs attention.

    But why are our SDA youth so compliant? I don’t understand this at all.




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  47. @Bill Eichner:

    Yes, your observtions are valid ones. Sometime back in the 70s or early 80s strong doctrinal instruction was abandoned in our elementay and secondary schools for an emphasis on a relational religion. And logical Bible study was no longer taught. I am shocked at what I see being passed off as “Bible Class” in our schools these days.

    This is the reason I posted as I did- we are in need of a deeper repentance than can be met by replacing a few biology teachers at LSU.




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  48. @Doug Carlson: No, I don’t think LSU is alone. I do believe they have been the most blatant. I’ve heard rumors about WWU and AU, but I have no physical proof.

    As to why are our SDA youth so compliant, I don’t have a good answer other than we are the church of Laodicea.




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  49. Probably the reason why our youth are so compliant is because we are like the children of Israel of old (Remember, there were only 3 that refused to bow the knee to the image at the order of King Nebuchadnezzar): our commitment to God, like the Children of Israel is badly flawed. Ours as a whole is merely a social religion.
    We often don’t know what we really believe individually and as a people, and we seek after the approval of the world rather than the approval of God.

    But Isaiah 51:12-13 offers us reproof:
    “who [art] thou, that thou shouldest be afraid of a man [that] shall die, and of the son of man [which] shall be made [as] grass;
    51:13 And forgettest the LORD thy maker, that hath stretched forth the heavens, and laid the foundations of the earth; and hast feared continually every day because of the fury of the oppressor, as if he were ready to destroy? and where [is] the fury of the oppressor?”

    The youth are afraid of these teachers, because they hold their earthly futures in their hands, but they along with the rest of us have forgotten that God Himself holds their (and our) eternal destinies in His hands.

    And as a people, we have forgotten the verse in Matthew 16:26, which says “For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?”

    Perhaps we need to refocus our youth into seeking and hastening God’s kingdom, and worry less about worldly careers and occupations.




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  50. The following is a link to a videoclip from GYC 2009.

    http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/3690097

    Location in video: 1:02:32

    The panel of GC Church leaders is asked a question (1:02:32 into the clip) regarding those who teach contrary to the Church’s stated fundamental beliefs on the Church’s dime. What should be done?

    The answers given are not very specific, quite vague actually. Personally, I was hoping for something more substantive besides the usual, “We should all stand for truth, but be loving and kind and Christlike in how we deal with those with diverging opinions…”

    What does this mean? Where is the practical guidance here when it comes to how and when to take specific action? While all of these comments are true, they gloss over the fact that an organization, even a Church organization, cannot avoid actual practical government which includes internal discipline and action to remove those from positions of paid representation who do not actually represent the stated ideals and goals of the Church as an organization – especially when this has been taking place in a very open manner for decades as some of our institutions (like LSU).

    Sean Pitman
    http://www.DetectingDesign.com




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  51. As a historian at an Adventist university helping to prepare students of theology as well as students of education, I attempted over the years to present my subjects within a framework of creationism and divine intervention. After more than 30 years of teaching service, the institution decided to terminate my service “for budgetary reasons”. I don’t think there was any question of displeasure about my Bible-based philosophy of history, but I had become, and continued to remain, involved in some investigations into the university’s under-reporting of earnings to the Social Security authorities, apparently unethical practices related to accreditation of new programs, and other leadership matters involving questionable financial dealings and nepotism. These unfortunate situations subsequently were addressed in a Spectrum article ably written by Tim Puko (Volume 34, Issue 3 • Summer 2006). The present concerns about the teaching of evolution in Adventist institutions had not escalated at the time of our particular woes. Nevertheless, it saddened me when I left teaching classes, that the man who briefly replaced me as the one-man history department, brother of the business manager, was frequently absent due to a drinking habit, lacked a fundamental Christian education, and was admittedly bewildered about the concept of creationism or divine intervention in the context of the classes he undertook to present to the students. It is important to keep in mind that this debate over creation/evolution teaching in Adventist institutions has its ramifications and exercises decided impact in other academic disciplines besides the natural sciences.




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  52. Doug –

    I would like to know why we haven’t heard from Union leadership on this question – given that the Unions actually run the universities and elect the GC officers.

    in Christ,

    Bob




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  53. Doug Carlson: @Eugene Shubert:
    I missed that statement, I’ll will have to listen again.

    “The divisions that you hear about, that we read about, are false. They are work, a tool, of the devil. Clearly.” — Dr. Ella S. Simmons, General Vice President of the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists.

    The statement is made at 01:05:33 to 01:05:41 in the video.

    Why are so many Seventh-day Adventists so quick to denounce The Seven Faces of Seventh-day Adventism as a work of the devil? From my personal experience with the Church on what I believe is the greatest of all whistleblower issues, it seems that the entire General Conference Corporation of Seventh-day Adventists regards necessary Spirit of prophecy revelation as the work of Satan.




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  54. Eugene Shubert:
    “The divisions that you hear about, that we read about, are false. They are work, a tool, of the devil. Clearly.” — Dr. Ella S. Simmons, General Vice President of the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists.The statement is made at 01:05:33 to 01:05:41 in the video.Why are so many Seventh-day Adventists so quick to denounce The Seven Faces of Seventh-day Adventism as a work of the devil? From my personal experience with the Church on what I believe is the greatest of all whistleblower issues, it seems that the entire General Conference Corporation of Seventh-day Adventists regards necessary Spirit of prophecy revelation as the work of Satan.  

    Eugene,

    It seems like you are straying off topic here. I have read the article and I am sure we can find all of those people in the church. yet the issue here is the teaching of evolution and how do we get rid of it.

    One poster said the rot is so deep that we would not accomplish much by dealing with the professors Greer and Bradley (and whoever else).

    Since there are pastors and teachers petitioning for acceptance of “monogamous homosexuality” – whatever that is – then we have a problem so deep and widespread that perhaps only God can root it out – which does not mean we should stop trying, based on what we know.

    So I say that we deal with the issues as they come. Today there will be evolutionists, tomorrow something else. While it is good to identify the “Seven Faces” it does not help us at this time in this issue.

    Let us focus our efforts, with much prayer, to deal with the problem at LSU and LLU and WWU and AU and whaterverU until we have done all we could.

    If (rather, when)another problem crops up, we go again. I do not think it is so good to point to the general problems; if we are honest we at times belong to one of these “Seven Faces”.




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  55. Eugene Shubert: “The biggest and most relevant false statement in that video, from 1:02:32 onwards, is that there are no divisions among us.” “the entire General Conference Corporation of Seventh-day Adventists regards necessary Spirit of prophecy revelation as the work of Satan.”

    Ella Simmons: “Ellen White says, and we must hold on to this, that education and redemption are one. If our schools are not thoroughly and uniquely Seventh-day Adventist they should not exist. We have no reason for them other than that they are thoroughly Seventh-day Adventist. Then that indicates that in order to give Seventh-day Adventist education we need, we have an imperative for, Seventh-day Adventist – committed, practicing, Seventh-day Adventist – faculty, leadership and staff. We have all been in a position in which individuals have been hired into our schools who have not been Seventh-day Adventist. We appreciate our colleagues, but either they betray themselves as good Christians by teaching what we believe if they’re not Seventh-day Adventist, or they will betray us by teaching something other than Seventh-day Adventist belief in our schools. It is clear from Genesis to Revelation that academics and spirituality are one. The divisions that you hear about, that we read about are false. They are work – a tool of – the devil. Clearly. I could go on and on but maybe I should let someone else have a point on this. We have a responsibility to make our schools, all of them everywhere, thoroughly Seventh-day Adventist.” Ella Simmons – General VP, General Conference (01:04:16 – 01:05:53) (emphasis supplied).

    Ms. Simmons said what the imaginary division is. Derived from what is transcribed above, the enemy tries to separate academics and spirituality. Education and redemption are one, hence the declaration by Ms. Simmons these divisions are untrue and the work of Satan. (e.g. a course doesn’t deal with beliefs, but with science.)

    God bless,

    Rich




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  56. @BobRyan:

    That is a good question. To answer it very well could make one appear unChristlike and therefore it is better to avoid the issue than to have that thought of you. Often Christlikeness is used as a cloak to cover a host of sins, but who can call it for what it is? The entanglements that we as humans get ourselves into can be so complicated that only Divine wisdom can undo the knot anyway. That is why I see a need to cry out to the Lord right now for His help. Who else can untie this mess and set it straight?




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  57. Rich Constantinescu: Ella Simmons: “Ellen White says, and we must hold on to this, that education and redemption are one. If our schools are not thoroughly and uniquely Seventh-day Adventist they should not exist. We have no reason for them other than that they are thoroughly Seventh-day Adventist. Then that indicates that in order to give Seventh-day Adventist education we need, we have an imperative for, Seventh-day Adventist – committed, practicing, Seventh-day Adventist – faculty, leadership and staff. We have all been in a position in which individuals have been hired into our schools who have not been Seventh-day Adventist. We appreciate our colleagues, but either they betray themselves as good Christians by teaching what we believe if they’re not Seventh-day Adventist, or they will betray us by teaching something other than Seventh-day Adventist belief in our schools.

    These remarks are representative of the entire panel response about those who teach evolution, spiritualism and pantheism in Seventh-day Adventist institutions. It is always implied that we’re talking about non-Seventh-day Adventists. However, in all the cases that I know about, the false teachers are professing Seventh-day Adventists in good standing with their local Seventh-day Adventist church.

    It is clear from Genesis to Revelation that academics and spirituality are one. The divisions that you hear about, that we read about are false. They are work – a tool of – the devil. Clearly. I could go on and on but maybe I should let someone else have a point on this. We have a responsibility to make our schools, all of them everywhere, thoroughly Seventh-day Adventist.” Ella Simmons – General VP, General Conference (01:04:16 – 01:05:53) (emphasis supplied).

    I have never heard the Adventist evolutionists, spiritualists and pantheists, assert anything about their messages as not being spiritual. The fact that they introduce their respective gospels as “scientific problems” is not an argument proving that these Adventists have divorced their science from “spirituality.”

    Ms. Simmons said what the imaginary division is. Derived from what is transcribed above, the enemy tries to separate academics and spirituality. Education and redemption are one, hence the declaration by Ms. Simmons these divisions are untrue and the work of Satan. (e.g. a course doesn’t deal with beliefs, but with science.)

    I don’t believe that Sister White was addressing evolution when she said that true education and the science of salvation are indistinguishable.




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  58. Well said Doug.

    In 3T the chapter on Laodicea – Ellen White asks if it is “Christlike” to expose sin in the camp — sin that brings the frown of God on the entire camp for failing to deal with the “few” that are in open rebellion.

    Her answer is “whom I love – I rebuke”.

    I think the solution God gives in the case of Achan is worth considering.

    in Christ,

    Bob




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  59. @Rich Constantinescu:

    Ella Simmons: “Ellen White says, and we must hold on to this, that education and redemption are one. If our schools are not thoroughly and uniquely Seventh-day Adventist they should not exist. We have no reason for them other than that they are thoroughly Seventh-day Adventist. Then that indicates that in order to give Seventh-day Adventist education we need, we have an imperative for, Seventh-day Adventist – committed, practicing, Seventh-day Adventist – faculty, leadership and staff. We have all been in a position in which individuals have been hired into our schools who have not been Seventh-day Adventist. We appreciate our colleagues, but either they betray themselves as good Christians by teaching what we believe if they’re not Seventh-day Adventist, or they will betray us by teaching something other than Seventh-day Adventist belief in our schools. It is clear from Genesis to Revelation that academics and spirituality are one. The divisions that you hear about, that we read about are false. They are work – a tool of – the devil. Clearly. I could go on and on but maybe I should let someone else have a point on this. We have a responsibility to make our schools, all of them everywhere, thoroughly Seventh-day Adventist.” Ella Simmons – General VP, General Conference (01:04:16 – 01:05:53) (emphasis supplied).

    Ella begins with a story about her own experience – attending a NON SDA university and dealing with evolutionist-centric course work in a respectful Christian manner.

    WE are not talking about creating SDA institutions that function as a public university preaching non-stop darwinist dogma however. Not a direction that we want to go and we are not talking about sustaining or maintaining any rogue university that leaps off into that wrong-headed direction.

    Ella’s quote above deals with overtly non-SDA professors (hired as such) who would be false to their own denomination’s beliefs were they to teach pure Adventist doctrine – and would be fals to the SDA university mission and purpose – were they simply to infiltrate the school with their non-SDA denomination’s views.

    Mark Finley makes a good point about “no academic freedom” when it comes to agreeing to teach at an SDA university and to conform to the mission of that university in every respect.

    He then gives examples of other non-SDA private universities where a simila “stand on principle” is taken by the board of directors in order to preserve the mission of their respective schools.

    in Christ,

    Bob




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  60. I just listened to a part of the GYC panel discussion. I heard Ryan say that Jesus bore with Judas for years and one can only derive from that statement the conclusion that we allow the teachers of evolution in higher education to teach evolution for years and church workers who are promoting homosexual relationships should be borne with for years.

    Further, Schneider said that he asks workers whether they are having fun. Is that what he really asks? We don’t enter life or work just to have fun. Pretty sad.




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  61. And Simmons promoted a strictly feminist viewpoint when asked about women. No emphasis on the responsibility to rear children; it’s all implicitly about power.

    I do not understand how an SDA educational institution can place on the faculty one who is not an SDA. What’s happening here?




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  62. @Eugene Shubert:

    Eugene,
    This relevant quote is posted on your “Seven Faces” site. My educated advise for your holistic well being, is for you to try this proverbial shoe on for size and then take long accompanying ganders into a real mirror:

    “Like Korah and his companions, many, even of the professed followers of Christ, are thinking, planning, and working so eagerly for self-exaltation that in order to gain the sympathy and support of the people they are ready to pervert the truth, falsifying and misrepresenting the Lord’s servants, and even charging them with the base and selfish motives that inspire their own hearts. By persistently reiterating falsehood, and that against all evidence, they at last come to believe it to be truth. While endeavoring to destroy the confidence of the people in the men of God’s appointment, they really believe that they are engaged in a good work, verily doing God service.”

    Is it possible that so many denounce your work because it is worthy of said denouncement. Those who refuse to denounce your slanderous misrepresentations of the church – are as culpable as those who refuse to denounce evolutionism in the church. Is your full frontal attack on the church universally, any less harmful than a frontal attack on one of its fundamental beliefs?




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  63. Victor Marshall: @Eugene Shubert:
    Is your full frontal attack on the church universally, any less harmful than a frontal attack on one of its fundamental beliefs?

    The Seven Faces of Seventh-day Adventism is a Spirit of prophecy compilation. True Seventh-day Adventists are not surprised by nominal Adventists hating it. Amazingly, Sister White prophesied that the shaking would come about by nominal Seventh-day Adventists not being able to cope with her straight testimonies.

    “Just as long as God has a church, he will have those who will cry aloud and spare not, who will be his instruments to reprove selfishness and sins, and will not shun to declare the whole counsel of God, whether men will hear or forbear. I saw that individuals would rise up against the plain testimonies. It does not suit their natural feelings. They would choose to have smooth things spoken unto them, and have peace cried in their ears. I view the church in a more dangerous condition than they ever have been. Experimental religion is known but by a few. The shaking must soon take place to purify the church.” 2SG 284.




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  64. @Victor Marshall:
    While I probably agree in principle to what you are saying here, Perhaps a more accurate parallel would be the damsel following the Apostle Paul(described in Acts 16:17-18), crying out “These men are the servants of the most high God, which show unto us the way of salvation. And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved….”

    What the damsel said was true, but it did nothing but hurt the new Church. Eugene may be accurately quoting the SOP (and I think he is), but that doesn’t necessarily mean he is actually helping this cause either, or the cause of God’s Church.




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  65. JohnB: @Victor Marshall:
    While I probably agree in principle to what you are saying here, Perhaps a more accurate parallel would be the damsel following the Apostle Paul(described in Acts 16:17-18), crying out “These men are the servants of the most high God, which show unto us the way of salvation.And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved….”What the damsel said was true, but it did nothing but hurt the new Church.Eugene may be accurately quoting the SOP (and I think he is), but that doesn’t necessarily mean he is actually helping this cause either, or the cause of God’s Church.  

    This is the main point. What reason do we have in digging up the dirt if we cannot do anything about it?

    I believe it is true there are all kinds of people in the church, but he who is without sin let him cast the first stone.

    I am NOT advocating that we do nothing about sin in the church. Indeed, I propose we do what we can to reform the church. Like this evolution issue we are trying to get action taken by the responsible authorities and we are agitating and appealing and writing and showing why teaching evolution is wrong. Not only that, but we know some of the offenders and we are directed in our focus.

    When we come to generalise about ALL the apostates in the church, real or imagined, and we do not show who is doing wrong, why it is wrong, how it is harming the church and souls’ salvation and we do not propose effective Christlike remedies, then what.

    Eugene, you may be right in what you find or know, but that by itself is not righteousness if you publish it and sound bitter (bitter may not be the correct emotion) about it.

    When you go on a bit more to make concrete proposals backed up by cogent arguments then your research and compilations will be taken more seriously. You have to do more work if this is your ministry else you will simply be called the “accuser of the brethren.”




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  66. JohnB: @Victor Marshall:
    Eugene may be accurately quoting the SOP (and I think he is), but that doesn’t necessarily mean he is actually helping this cause either, or the cause of God’s Church.

    “The message to the Laodicean church reveals our condition as a people.” RH, Dec. 15, 1904.

    Is that helpful or harmful?




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  67. @GMFree:

    I do not understand how an SDA educational institution can place on the faculty one who is not an SDA. What’s happening here?

    I recall seeing a comment about LSU hiring a Muslim professor. My guess is that other SDA institutions may have a few people in the non-SDA category as well.

    However in my view — hiring a non-proselytizing non-SDA professor is less of a problem than hiring an SDA that then goes on to evangelize-for-Darwin all the while offering to demonstrate to students the model for compromising Adventism with evolutionism.

    in Christ,

    Bob




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  68. I wish this discussion was before more of our church members, it is getting very interesting and insightful. I interviewed at a church that only wanted their new pastor to do evangelism and leave the home church to their care. I told them I could not do that because a pastor is charged with the care of the church and it is one of his most serious responsibilities to guard the flock from grevious wolves. That charge, BTW, comes from pretty high up the chain of command. And the final “examine” question for all pastors will be about the welfare of that flock.




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  69. @Doug Carlson: I am emailing this on to every SDA member on my mailing list. At least some of them will do the same. If everyone involved in this discussion will do the same – we may get some help from the church membership in general.

    There are five SDA ministers on my mailing list, men that are close to me. Rest assured, those of us who participate in this discussion are not alone. When it comes election time, there will be results. Its just a shame, a horrible shame, that the false teaching goes on until then, because the ones with authority to end it now apparently need to be replaced themselves!
    Sincerely, your Brother in Christ

    Wayne Matlock




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  70. The real issue here is that individuals are not willing to give their will over to God entirely. “To the Law and the Testimony, if they speak not according to this Word there is no truth in them” Is. 8:20. The Bible instructs us how to live and it goes a different direction from many hearts. Destroy Creation story=Invalidate the Law=Do what I want.




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  71. When I was going through grade school MANY years ago we had very Bible based classes in real Bible study–The courses were called things like “The Gospel to all the World”, etc. My eighth grade Bible text book was ‘GOD’S GREAT PLAN’ which started with the fall of Satan and went all the way to the Earth Made New, and we had many wondeful preachers and evangelists who grew up “Adventist”–and we still do But I have been shocked through the years to see how the Bible books which have been studied by our young people in the years that have followed. Many are pure “pablum” and are such that could be used by any church anywhere. But our unique “message” that we are supposed to be teaching “to all the world” is often quite difficult to find in those “Bible” books.
    Several years ago a young relative of mine took “Daniel” in one of her academy Bible classes. She had no problem with it because she had been taught “Daniel” during her growing up years.But most of her classmates were completely “lost”–they had never heard such things! The crowning “shock” to both my young relative and me was the remark of one young girl–who had been in our church schools from grade one–said to her–“I’ve always thought that the story of Daniel in the Lion’s Den was a fairy tale like Cinderella!” If this is the Bible background our children are growing with is it any wonder that many who are leaders and teacher today are leaving behind the “Faith of our Fathers” and going after “strange gods?”
    It is time we went after the “roots of the trees” and not just try to chop off the “top limbs!” That is also needed but we will never have youth who have grown up in our schools and churches and are “on fire” for the real truth and mission of our church until their Bible instruction from birth on through all of their school years are not only Bible based but 100% “Adventist belief” Bible based. I find it somewhat ironic that some of the strongest voices in our movement today are ones who grew up totally ignorant of all things spiritual but found the truth in their upper teens and are literally “setting the world on fire” with their preaching today–people like Doug Batchelor, Shawn Boonstra,David Asscherick and others I might name. We really are Laodicieans, aren’t we. (We do have some who grew up “Adventist”, and are still preaching our unique beliefs, of course, but there should be a lot more.
    God has a message for a world that is rapidly approachng it’s end and it will be preached “to all the world” but, sadly, many of us Leaodiceans who grew “in the truth” are going to be among the ones to whom Jesus says, “I never knew you!”




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  72. I hope this issue will soon be solved. It shows us that we must certify ourselves the grond we stand on. I believe that it is of the utmost importance that any church worker, either pastor, teacher, medical doctor or whatever teach simple, clear and proved Bible truth. The true SDA christians won’t be misled, but we must watch out in order not to led anyone astray. Sincerely yours in Christ the Creator and Redeemer. Manuel Nobre Cordeiro.




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  73. BobRyan: However in my view — hiring a non-proselytizing non-SDA professor is less of a problem than hiring an SDA that then goes on to evangelize-for-Darwin all the while offering to demonstrate to students the model for compromising Adventism with evolutionism.

    Great point. There are hundreds of creationist scientists that have been expelled from secular universities because of their views. Perhaps one or two might be a good fit in ours? But I wonder, do we have a shortage of well-educated creationist scientists committed to Christ among us capable of filling these positions? If so, how sad.




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  74. Christiane Marshall:
    Great point. There are hundreds of creationist scientists that have been expelled from secular universities because of their views. Perhaps one or two might be a good fit in ours?   

    I think it is better to have a honest scientist who might be unclear on some Bible truths than to have one schooled in the truths and adopting a posture of disguised infidelity.

    God is no respecter of persons and the church should not feel constrained to hire so-called SDA scientists or faculty if they are going to lead out in or participate in rebellion against God’s word.

    To that extent I would support and recommend hiring other honest scientists who are willing to suffer for being true to God’s word. Of course, it would be useful and prudent to know their views on the 28 fundamental beliefs and ensure that we do not get one who promotes some other thing that is unacceptable.

    If we cannot find enough, shut them down!




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  75. Wisbey continues his position of leadership, twisting the writings of Ellen White to support this great apostasy. It is high time we quit talking about doing something and go ahead and do it. We need a mass mailing campaign giving the parents of every student at La Sierra the full facts of the situation and ask them to call the university en masse to express their great displeasure with the situation and consider removing their kids if no change is made. We may need to consider organizing a mass protest either on student grounds by the students themselves or by faithful Adventist students at our colleges across the country. What we can’t do is just continue talking about it and doing nothing.




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  76. …and if it turns out that the parents and students as a vast majority already know exactly what is being taught at LSU and support that? All the LSU students who have posted here so far have supported their professors and president…




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  77. Bravus, it seems like you think a “Thus saith the Lord” should be a “Thus saith the majority vote”. I don’t believe this is nor should be a democratic process.

    Though every person (student and faculty) were to be against changing the current school curriculum (evolutionist philosophy), it wouldn’t change the fact that the Adventist church follows a ‘Sola Scriptura’ ideology, and that LSU is an extension of the church, and that the Scriptures clearly teach that the earth was created in 6 days.

    Being that’s the case, we should press on regardless of what support is shown here or there, and require LSU to support and teach the beliefs in harmony with the church organization it is a part of.




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  78. Nope, you have misunderstood me. Timothy’s proposal was for a protest of students and parents, and my point was simply that that might be difficult to organise if students and parents support what is happening at the university. That’s all.




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  79. Would someone please explain to me why we need Adventist schools–with their hugh tuition costs–if they don’t teach solid Adventist doctrines?
    Would someone also please explain to me why it is taking such a long time to deal with this problem (and others) in our schools? Where are the “watchmen on the walls of Zion?” Are they “asleep at the helm” of our wonderful church?
    I realize I don’t know the whole story and am not privy to all the workings of the varuious committes but it just seems to me that things are moving much more slowly than God approves of.




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  80. The problem is not in the excellent leadership provided at La Sierra University first by Dr. Guy, then by Dr. Geraty and now by Dr. Wisbey. With dignity and integrity, all of these enlightened educational leaders have contributed to making La Sierra University an Adventist Christian university committed to the pursuit of truth—both in science and theology—wherever it leads.

    All of them have stood resolutely against their misguided fundamentalist coreligionists who seek to turn a fine Adventist university into a Bible college.

    Currently, the real problem is the myths and half-truths created and promulgated by the supporters of the EducateTruth web site.

    All true Adventists committed to the pursuit of “Present Truth” should actively resist and reject the work of those who wish to follow the example of St. Bernard of Clairvaux and Torguemada in how to deal with contrasting opinions in a religious community.




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  81. Ervin Taylor: The problem is not in the excellent leadership provided at La Sierra University first by Dr. Guy, then by Dr. Geraty and now by Dr. Wisbey.With dignity and integrity, all of these enlightened educational leaders have contributed to making La Sierra University an Adventist Christian university committed to the pursuit of truth—both in science and theology—wherever it leads.
    All of them have stood resolutely against their misguided fundamentalist coreligionists who seek to turn a fine Adventist university into a Bible college.
    Currently, the real problem is the myths and half-truths created and promulgated by the supporters of the EducateTruth web site.
    All true Adventists committed to the pursuit of “Present Truth” should actively resist and reject the work of those who wish to follow the example of St. Bernard of Clairvaux and Torguemada in how to deal with contrasting opinions in a religious community.  

    It seems to me that the teaching of evolution as fact is the promulgation of myths and half-truths. I do not know if there is any half, either. More likely zero.

    Secondly, the leadership will be okay if the university is secular, but LSU is NOT secular, though you try to make it so. Perhaps you are confusing LSU with the one you work with.

    Thus the excellent leadership you are talking about is excellent in promoting rebellion against God – like Korah, Dathan and Abiram.

    We may not have a satisfactory conclusion to this debate in these times, but the seven last plagues and the judgment will clearly show which position is acceptable to God.

    God is good, and you, Wisbey, Greer et al and the board of trustees still have some time to repent. Do so before it is too late.




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  82. Ervin Taylor: The problem is not in the excellent leadership provided at La Sierra University first by Dr. Guy, then by Dr. Geraty and now by Dr. Wisbey. With dignity and integrity, all of these enlightened educational leaders have contributed to making La Sierra University an Adventist Christian university committed to the pursuit of truth—both in science and theology—wherever it leads.

    All of them have stood resolutely against their misguided fundamentalist coreligionists who seek to turn a fine Adventist university into a Bible college.

    Currently, the real problem is the myths and half-truths created and promulgated by the supporters of the EducateTruth web site.

    All true Adventists committed to the pursuit of “Present Truth” should actively resist and reject the work of those who wish to follow the example of St. Bernard of Clairvaux and Torguemada in how to deal with contrasting opinions in a religious community.

    Please do point out any myths or half-truths listed in my letter – or even any exaggerations – however slight.

    Do you really deny that many of the science professors at LSU are actively promoting the modern synthesis view of evolution as the true story of origins to their students? If not, why doesn’t LSU at least admit this obvious fact instead of putting out misleading PR campaigns which suggest that LSU is not in fact doing what it is doing – promoting the “truth” of the evolution of life on this planet over hundreds of millions of years of time? You do not actually deny this. You simply argue that the promotion of theistic evolution over vast ages of time shouldn’t be a problem for an “Adventist” university…

    So, why is LSU trying to cover up what you think is so obviously beneficial? Why are the teachers of LSU actively trying to prevent access to any of their lecture materials or exactly what is being presented in their classes? Why try to sequester this information? Why be so secretive about what is really being taught at LSU? – if it is clearly what the SDA Church, as an organization, wants? Why is LSU putting extreme pressure on those LSU students who are trying to increase transparency about what is being actively promoted within numerous LSU classrooms?

    This isn’t the inquisition Erv. No one is threatened with any civil penalty. It is just that LSU owes it to those who are paying good money to support LSU to explain what they are really getting vs. what they think they are getting. Everyone has a right to get what they are really paying for with their own money…

    And, if transparency is so good, why isn’t LSU being forthright, open, honest and transparent with current and potential parents, students, and the SDA Church at large? Why the use of slick language that is calculated to mislead? – such as the oft repeated statement that, “Everyone at LSU believes in creation”? Clearly this statement is given with the intent to quiet the concerns of those who think that the term “creation” means support for a literal 6-day creation week – when clearly this isn’t the actual meaning of this word when it comes to LSU science professors who publicly deride such a “ludicrous” notion…

    Please… who is the one telling “half truths” here? It’s time to come clean Erv. We’ve had enough of these word games…

    Sean Pitman
    http://www.DetectingDesign.com




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  83. Lydian Belknap: Would someone please explain to me why we need Adventist schools–with their hugh tuition costs–if they don’t teach solid Adventist doctrines?Would someone also please explain to me why it is taking such a long time to deal with this problem (and others) in our schools?Where are the “watchmen on the walls of Zion?”Are they “asleep at the helm” of our wonderful church?I realize I don’t know the whole story and am not privy to all the workings of the varuious committes but it just seems to me that things are moving much more slowly than God approves of.  

    God is patient and long suffering. Our time is not His time. Let us do our bit of applying pressure and pray for His intervention and leave it to Him to bring sense out of this fiasco.

    I sincerely hope that the evolutionists will realise the error of their ways and repent before it is too late.

    Why should they die when God does not love the death of the wicked? Why should they despise Someone who has only shown them love? Why should they reject the word of One who cannot lie? Why should man be so arrogant as to believe he knows more than God? The mystery of iniquity does indeed work.

    Praise God for His goodness toward the children of men. Thank Him for His mercy and grace. This issue, though so insulting and damaging to the character of God is only one issue of the many He has to deal with in trying to save us. So of necessity He exercises patience in the hope that the evolutionists, who would see what creationists have written will repent of the error of their ways.

    It is the glory of God to save the vilest sinner so there will be great glory and rejoicing when even one of them is converted.




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  84. Jonathan Smith: I sincerely hope that the evolutionists will realise the error of their ways and repent before it is too late.

    Why should they die when God does not love the death of the wicked? Why should they despise Someone who has only shown them love? Why should they reject the word of One who cannot lie? Why should man be so arrogant as to believe he knows more than God? The mystery of iniquity does indeed work.

    Be careful Jonathan. You are making a moral judgment here when you cannot do so. A belief in an error is not, in and of itself, a sin. Evolutionists are not wicked just because they believe in a false theory. Certainly there are many very good and very honest and sincere evolutionists. Salvation isn’t based on knowledge, but on motive…

    Sean Pitman
    http://www.DetectingDesign.com




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  85. Sean Pitman M.D.:
    Be careful Jonathan.You are making a moral judgment here when you cannot do so.A belief in an error is not, in and of itself, a sin.Evolutionists are not wicked just because they believe in a false theory.Certainly there are many very good and very honest and sincere evolutionists.Salvation isn’t based on knowledge, but on motive…Sean Pitman
    http://www.DetectingDesign.com  

    Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

    Luke 12:47-48 And that servant, which knew his lord’s will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

    Sean,

    I am not speaking about sincerely deluded evolutionists who have never seen the arguments and research of creationists.

    Nevertheless, your argument lacks theological support.

    Ignorance of the law is never an excuse in any jurisdiction. As the texts above show, lack of proper knowledge is NOT an excuse since the knowledge is accessible but they simply refused to access or believe it.

    We are saved by grace through faith (only) but those who call themselves SDA Christians and refuse to have faith in God’s word call Him a liar and have exalted the creature over the Creator. Without faith it is IMPOSSIBLE to please God.

    Given that we all have access to the same word of God, why is it that some believe God and some don’t? The mystery of iniquity does indeed work.

    I do not find any comfort or solace for Christian evolutionists – yet I am not their judge, God is. He will judge justly but I truly fear for their souls.




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  86. Both Jonathan and Sean make valid points.

    I agree with Sean that: “A belief in an error is not, in and of itself, a sin. Evolutionists are not wicked just because they believe in a false theory.”

    But I also agree with Jonathan that we are not here discussing non-Adventist professors in a secular university, who have no obligation to be familiar with Adventist teachings or creationist arguments. We are discussing people who are employed by an Adventist institution, who know what the Adventist doctrine is, who know what Genesis 1 and Exodus 20 say, who know what Ellen White has stated on this topic, and who know what Adventists expect to be taught at an Adventist school. Moral condemnation DOES attach to them for teaching Darwinism as truth in this context. In fact, Shane Hilde and Sean Pitman have pointed out repeatedly, in multiple forums, that it is dishonest and unethical for these people to act in this way, comparing it to people employed by Nike promoting Reebok. This is not an issue of innocent ignorance. This is a case of contumacious rebellion.

    “The times of ignorance therefore God overlooked. But now he commands that all people everywhere should repent, because he has appointed a day in which he will judge the world in righteousness by the man whom he has ordained; of which he has given assurance to all men, in that he has raised him from the dead.” Acts 17:30-31.




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  87. Eugene Shubert: The Seven Faces of Seventh-day Adventism is a Spirit of prophecy compilation. True Seventh-day Adventists are not surprised by nominal Adventists hating it. Amazingly, Sister White prophesied that the shaking would come about by nominal Seventh-day Adventists not being able to cope with her straight testimonies.

    Eugene, You took that statement in the wrong way. It isn’t the Spirit of Prophecy that’s the issue. It’s the way it is used. I don’t know how to explain this without further confusion, but I shall try!*

    If a person quotes a condemnatory statement from the Spirit of Prophecy and applies it to a specific person, he or she is implying that the person is guilty of the sin within the Spirit of Prophecy statement. I believe that people who do this are bearing false witness. (Using SOP rather than facts as proof.)

    C’mon, don’t you think you go a little too far shooting accusations around? The LSU issue is clear and specific, but generalizations about the entire denomination is going to far. (And I’m not referring to saying we are Laodicea. That goes without saying.)

    I believe the statement above was referring to accusations implied by your use of Spirit of Prophecy quotes as proof–rather than using facts as proof about specific cases. That is a sly and clever way of bearing false witness.

    A good example is you changing (or expanding) the definition of pantheism in order to use a Spirit of Prophecy quote. But I could cite numerous other examples, like your lists of sins in the church within sentences that state authoritatively that the ‘vast majority’ of SDAs believe or practice them.

    There are lots of practices and beliefs that are wrong even though a Spirit of Prophecy quote does not exist for it. If you have valid complaints about specific issues, then you don’t need to exaggerate or stretch things to make a point. Doing so is a manifestation of a lack of integrity which destoys a person’s credibility, and weakens his or her witness. I believe that rather than implying that the SOP quote was not valid, Victor was suggesting that it might apply to you because of your:

    Victor Marshall: “slanderous misrepresentations of the church.”

    If you have valid knowledge about specific issues, and talking or writing about them will help reform the church, then maybe you should consider using a more effective and Biblical approach.

    *(Just to be clear: I am on board that something needs to be done at LSU. That has nothing to do with my statement here.)




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  88. @Ervin Taylor said:

    Ervin Taylor: Currently, the real problem is the myths and half-truths created and promulgated by the supporters of the EducateTruth web site.

    Of course you can’t be speaking of what has been said about LSU? If there is something posted in any article that is not true, I will gladly correct it should it be in error. It’s one thing to say we’re putting out myths and half-truths, but it’s another to point them out.




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