Comment on Open letter to General Conference by JohnB.
It would be very easy to go off on a tangent and discuss what constitutes Babylon, and what constitutes the ‘Church’. That would not be appropriate in this forum.
I agree Jonathan, that the Adventist Church, is not Babylon, per se. Some people in it do hold to babylonish ideas, but the church fundamentally holds to Biblical doctrines (yes, even the administrators, Eugene).
That being said, I don’t think the SDA ‘church'(militant) is the ‘Church’ of Revelation (triumphant), noting Christ’s own words to the Samaritan woman (the one that had five husbands)in John 4:20-24:
“4:20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
4:24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.”
Christ could have said the same thing about the SDA church, and other denominations:
“The hour cometh when ye shall neither in this church (non-SDA church), nor yet in the SDA church worship the Father….God [is] a spirit. They that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.”
For Eugene to imply the SDA church is Babylon, however, is way off too.
JohnB Also Commented
Bravus, after re-reading your previous comment, and what you said following my comment, yes, I do think I did misunderstand you. My apologies.
Open letter to General Conference
Bravus, it seems like you think a “Thus saith the Lord” should be a “Thus saith the majority vote”. I don’t believe this is nor should be a democratic process.
Though every person (student and faculty) were to be against changing the current school curriculum (evolutionist philosophy), it wouldn’t change the fact that the Adventist church follows a ‘Sola Scriptura’ ideology, and that LSU is an extension of the church, and that the Scriptures clearly teach that the earth was created in 6 days.
Being that’s the case, we should press on regardless of what support is shown here or there, and require LSU to support and teach the beliefs in harmony with the church organization it is a part of.
Open letter to General Conference
While I probably agree in principle to what you are saying here, Perhaps a more accurate parallel would be the damsel following the Apostle Paul(described in Acts 16:17-18), crying out “These men are the servants of the most high God, which show unto us the way of salvation. And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved….”
What the damsel said was true, but it did nothing but hurt the new Church. Eugene may be accurately quoting the SOP (and I think he is), but that doesn’t necessarily mean he is actually helping this cause either, or the cause of God’s Church.
Recent Comments by JohnB
Professor Kent: Informed Seventh-day Adventists are well aware that the world of science rejects a supernatural creation, yet the vast majority still believe. You should not mock their faith.
Au, Contraire Monsieur professeur, it was no mockery of faith, but merely a statement that there is room in this discussion for both faith AND evidence, and also we should not demonize Dr. Pitman for presenting the evidence!
Perhaps you would see that if you re-read again what the good Doctor wrote?
Certainly within this body of believers there is room for both faith And evidence in this discussion, and as Dr. Kime suggests, we would do well to combine them both.
For any of us to attempt to cause needless division by distorting that point is in fact the real mockery here. It should be completely below any and all of us to engage in such tactics.
Ron: Donâ€™t forget that Mrs. White implied that we would have to change some of our fundamental beliefs as truth progresses.
Ron, I think what you are implying is a very serious mis-reading of what she said and implied.
Also, how do you know she wasn’t addressing that to folks such as yourself that apparently don’t believe in the authority of Scripture? Maybe she was implying that you needed to come into closer harmony with Scripture?
I might remind you briefly of Proverbs 16:25 which says that “There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.”
What I say doesn’t matter. What you say doesn’t matter. If either one of us is in rebellion against God, it won’t end well for for the one(s) in rebellion.
We might all do well to always remember that.
WASC Reviews LSU’s Accreditation
“I think WASC should be commended for defending religious freedom within our schools. I am still mystified how the church can claim to believe in religious freedom and persecute their teachers”
Ron, the issue is not one of religious freedom. Each of these teachers is free to think and believe what they want to. I have absolutely no problem with that, and would most rigorously defend that right. However, they donâ€™t have a right to sabotage their employer, which is LSU, and by extension, the Adventist Church at large.
Having a secret agenda (and pushing that agenda) which counters the beliefs of the church cannot be anything more or less than sabotage.
Everyone must be aware of his/her influence, and especially people in positions of authority. Officials at a school always represent the school, and if they don’t want that responsibility (or can’t handle that responsibility) then they should not accept that responsibility. It is very appropriate to ask them to resign if they cannot properly represent the school.
WASC Reviews LSU’s Accreditation
I wish the leadership of our church would disavow all WASC and the like accreditations, and do self-accreditations instead. THAT would give the school TRUE autonomy.
The Metamorphosis of La Sierra University: an eye-witness account
It seems that ‘Conspire’ is more of an underhanded move by some in an unofficial capacity, while ‘ally’ is more of a sanctioned behavior. The difference between the two is primarily the one action being an allowed official behavior, while the other is a subversive behavior in rebellion to or against officially accepted behavior. In this context, ‘conspire’ is the correct word.
When I read the eyewitness account, I was struck by the similarity to the story of the rebellion in heaven, when Satan conspired against the government of heaven to ‘free’ its inhabitants from the ‘constraints’ of God’s Law. Revelation 12:7,8,9 goes on to say that “…there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels. And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out….”
In heaven, the ‘dragon’ and his angels were cast out. Will that happen at LSU? Only time will tell.
I think a battle is still brewing over this (with LSU) which will become more intense if the church does take a definite stand (which it should). We should all be prepared for it, because it will likely get pretty ugly.
As in heaven, so with LSU: Each person will have to take a stand. Each will have to take sides. These ‘conspirators’ are more out in the open now. They have prepared for battle, and I don’t think they have any intent of coming under the direction of or submitting to the control of the board (if it isn’t also compromised), nor of the church at large. They feel in control, and they aren’t going to back down. LSU as an Adventist university may be a lost cause.
Again, the similarities to the rebellion in heaven seem glaringly obvious. The words spoken by the prophet Samual to King Saul in 1 Samuel 15:23 seem applicable here too: “For rebellion [is as] the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness [is as] iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee….”