LSU statement regarding resignations and Bradley’s email

The following statement appears to only be published at Spectrum. According to Spectrum, this statement from La Sierra University was released at 3 pm Tuesday.

Last Friday, four members of our campus family tendered their resignations at the request of our board chair. Each one had the choice of submitting his resignation or having the details of the situation in which he was involved presented to the Board of Trustees for discussion and action. All four chose to resign.

The university has a duty to all of its employees and students to follow appropriate policies and procedures in dealing with disciplinary matters. Part of this duty is to respect the privacy of the individuals involved. Even in the face of highly inaccurate and destructive speculation, policy and Christian courtesy require us to release information with great care. Institutions carefully work out policies in advance for just such circumstances so that they will act wisely and responsibly when the need arises.

Dr. Gary Bradley has chosen to email a letter to a wide circle of friends and colleagues that shares certain information about the circumstances leading to the request for his resignation. His letter, posted with his permission by a friend on the internet, acknowledges a recording made of a conversation among friends. He later provided the information, also posted online, clarifying that the recording was recorded by accident by one of the participants in the conversation. That person was also responsible for sending the recording out, apparently not realizing what he was sending. The content of the recording has not been disclosed by Dr. Bradley or the university.

While the university understands Dr. Bradley’s desire to explain what happened, the result of the letter has been further confusion and anger directed by some at the Church and at the university. People have made serious allegations without knowing what the recording contained and its context.

In an effort to reduce some of the most inaccurate speculation, the university released a statement on Monday stating that the matter at hand was not part of the biology controversy, and that no students were involved. This is correct. Despite Dr. Bradley’s letter and the unfortunate way it has shaped the debate, the university will only release additional information as appropriate according to both policy and Christian courtesy

When people in highly visible positions who have long served an institution are asked to resign, many questions naturally arise. One reason for these questions is the disconnect that colleagues, friends, alumni, and students sense. “How could it be that someone I have known and respected for years is suddenly asked to resign? That can’t be right!” It is important to emphasize that their resignations, while sad, in no way invalidate their years of valuable service to the university and to our students.

Because La Sierra University has been the center of the biology debate in the Church for several years, it is also easy for people who do not know the facts to jump to the conclusion that these resignations must be related to that issue. Some have taken it further, blaming the Church for carrying out a biology-related “witch hunt” by asking these individuals to resign. This is simply not true. The “convenient” explanation is sometimes the wrong one.

The board and administration of La Sierra University understand the frustration of the public when details about a situation such as this are not quickly forthcoming. We ask for your understanding and patience as we work the process through to the appropriate conclusions. And we ask for your prayers on behalf of the individuals involved, the university, our students, and our Church.

Here is Gary Bradley’s email referenced in the statement:

To: My treasured friends and colleagues
From: Gary Bradley
6-12-11

On Friday, June 10, 2011, I signed a letter resigning from the faculty position that I have enjoyed for 39 years. Since such an action always precipitates much speculation and many rumors, I want you to know exactly what happened and why.

Recently a secret tape of a private conversation among four friends was released and distributed widely in the SDA church hierarchy. A professional transcript of that tape was prepared, albeit with some mistakes in identifying the speaker. I participated in that conversation, was confronted therewith in the Friday meeting, and agreed with much, but not all, of what was ascribed to me. This conversation has already been mischaracterized and is being used in further attempts to discredit La Sierra University.

I signed the resignation letter that had been prepared for me for two reasons. First, I believe that the best way for La Sierra University to come through this fiasco is for a “head to roll.” Second, I admitted to consuming a small glass of an alcoholic beverage during this conversation. On the first count, everything I have tried to do for the past 39 years has been to help La Sierra University to succeed. On the second count, I can only say mea culpa.

Needless to say, I am devastated. I feel like my very soul has been ripped from my body. My entire life since I began teaching 46 years ago has been dedicated to Adventist education. I’m not ready to quit and I grieve the loss of the classroom where I have had such rewarding interactions with the wonderful people who are my students. I have many important projects underway here now and many other people will be inconvenienced by my sudden departure. I can only say that I am deeply sorry and will try my utmost to earn redemption.

If you are among those who welcome this transition, I request that you celebrate with dignity. If you are among those who find this transition upsetting, I ask that you not turn it into a war. Please continue to do what you can to make La Sierra University the best and most progressive SDA university in the world.

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67 thoughts on “LSU statement regarding resignations and Bradley’s email

  1. Says not related to evolutionary problem, not a “witch hunt” so I guess Bradley just got caught, as did Capone and OJ, for some “other” reason. Wow! Whoda thunk it?

    However, we are thus still left with the problem that we have been debating for two years. What about “evolution as fact?”




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  2. Was there any repentance here, or just the fact that he was caught doing something he shouldn’t have, and having to reap the dire results? I doubt that he is done drinking “that little glass of alcohol” from his statements. Just my opinion however. Yes, the other problem still remains, doesn’t it? Another thought, can a lifetime of good works atone for one wrong act?




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  3. One wrong act? Do you really believe he was just experimenting? This is the guy who said when asked if he was a practicing Adventist, he said “On record, yes. You can read into that whatever you want.”




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  4. I am deeply saddened by what has happened to Dr. G. Bradley. For four years he has been my professor, my mentor and my dear friend. I wish the situation would have been handled differently. None of us are saints and, of course, it is much easier to see a speck in a brother’s eye… LSU just lost one of its truly best professors. I owe a lot to Dr. Bradley, including the knowledge that I acquired at LSU and my academic success. I will be forever thankful for his support, his genuine desire to teach and his dedication to educate future specialists in various fields. Thank you Dr. Bradley, you have taught me to be a better man. My respect for you will always remain the same.




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  5. Just a note: No one put a gun to the head of any of the four individuals that resigned. I see that they were told that if they did not resign, their comments would be shared with the board. What’s so bad about that? If these comments were actually harmless and trivial, why would they care if the board heard them. I suspect that the comments were probably quite damaging and perhaps actionable. It was their choice to resign. In the end, they have reaped what they have sown.

    The accidental recording of the private meeting was unfortunate for them. Perhaps their damaging speech and poor judgement were influenced by a mind clouded by the effects of alcohol coursing through their veins. This is why our Creator demands that we abstain from its use.




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  6. Mark and Shane, if you have not listened to the recordings (and it’s obvious to me you have not), you do not know what you are talking about. And you know it.




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  7. Mark Bruno: Just a note: No one put a gun to the head of any of the four individuals that resigned. I see that they were told that if they did not resign, their comments would be shared with the board. What’s so bad about that? If these comments were actually harmless and trivial, why would they care if the board heard them. I suspect that the comments were probably quite damaging and perhaps actionable. It was their choice to resign. In the end, they have reaped what they have sown.The accidental recording of the private meeting was unfortunate for them. Perhaps their damaging speech and poor judgement were influenced by a mind clouded by the effects of alcohol coursing through their veins. This is why our Creator demands that we abstain from its use.

    You’re correct. If the tapes were just a few “harmless” statements said “in jest” why would these guys resign. Doesn’t make any sense,and I need to hear the tapes for myself to think otherwise.

    Anybody got a copy?




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  8. Shelley Senner: Was there any repentance here, or just the fact that he was caught doing something he shouldn’t have, and having to reap the dire results? I doubt that he is done drinking “that little glass of alcohol” from his statements. Just my opinion however. Yes, the other problem still remains, doesn’t it? Another thought, can a lifetime of good works atone for one wrong act?

    Bradley’s statement reveals the arrogance and hypocrisy he has stood for over the past decades. Read it for yourself.

    Just a “little” glass or bottle of alcohol? He’s a prototype example of the kind of “Adventist” we, out here in California, tolerate–one who is “Adventist” in name only, while he desecrates our standards while teaching these things to our young people.

    If you don’t believe me, come out here this summer, visit some of our “progressive” SDA Churches and see what you think. I’ll provide the names of some “doozies” if you need them.




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  9. To Dr. Bradley:
    It was with sadness I read of your resignation. I don’t know all the details but i do know how judgmental some people can be when you make a mistake. You helped me immensely when I came to LSU. You gave me courage to succeed at my dreams, which you never knew. This is one person who wont pass judgment because in the end none of us are perfect. Its usually the Pharisees that like to point the fingers. Move forward and don’t become bitter because you are not through yet! God Bless you




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  10. The boards actions are most interesting. Four people are terminated over a recording. What about previous recordings and administrative comments. The board should be just as quick in reacting to those issues.




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  11. I had heard about the sad news about Dr Bradley and I accidently linked to this site. Mark, Shane, and Shelly I am worried about your souls. You seem to have lost your compassion. Please be careful you do not fall under the influence of the current political climate of hatred and condemnation in the name of God. This mix of religion and politics is exactly what EGW warned against. God is blasphemed when we use his name to to justify disdain for our fellow man.




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  12. I have not waded into this before, but I feel compeled to do so. As Christians we are not to give up working for the salvation of soul/s, but we must condemn sin as Jesus comanded us to do. A minister once told me when dealing with problem people that”if you give a person enough rope they will hang themselves”, the Bible also says “be sure your sins will find you out” People’s true characters seem to always shine forth. Thank you for being not critical of people but of their actions as you call sin by its right name when the current climate seems to be to excuse or turn the other way




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  13. Shane Hilde: One wrong act? Do you really believe he was just experimenting? This is the guy who said when asked if he was a practicing Adventist, he said “On record, yes. You can read into that whatever you want.”

    Agreed this is a case of a leopard not changing his spots when it comes to the four people that got themselves fired. The Inside Higher Ed article makes it clear that they were engaged in rather unchristian activity much less SDA.

    As a man does in his spare time – so is he. These guys may have caused some associates to raise questions at work – but when alone apparently they freely share with each other from the heart showing who they are in truth.

    I pray this leads them to some road related to repentance and reformation.

    I also pray for Ricardo Graham and Elder Wilson as this providential unveiling of the level of the problem in the cases of a few – gives a small glimpse of just how massive the problem is that must be addressed.

    in Christ,

    Bob




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  14. Gayle Hori: This mix of religion and politics is exactly what EGW warned against.

    That is a curious statement addressed to Shane. Is Shane running for office? Is there some campaign by Shane or someone at LSU to give him a job at LSU or the board of LSU?

    Or was it just an accidental cliche?

    in Christ,

    Bob




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  15. Ron Stone M.D.: Just a “little” glass or bottle of alcohol? He’s a prototype example of the kind of “Adventist” we, out here in California, tolerate–one who is “Adventist” in name only, while he desecrates our standards while teaching these things to our young people.

    The problem is that Inside Higher Education reports on this stating that these guys are using bad language, drinking, insulting LSU board members, (and from what was reported to me working to get WASC to remove Graham as ex officio.)

    Here is my point – non-SDA publications are essentially “witnessing” about the SDA culture and good name of LSU via these reports.

    How far do we really want this to go in terms of the non-SDA press before taking step beyond behavior modification? The strategy of just working to get more civil, more presentable wolves is not the level of visionary leadership that we need in a crisis like this one.

    in Christ,

    Bob




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  16. Just a note: No one put a gun to the head of any of the four individuals that resigned. I see that they were told that if they did not resign, their comments would be shared with the board. What’s so bad about that? If these comments were actually harmless and trivial, why would they care if the board heard them. I suspect that the comments were probably quite damaging and perhaps actionable. It was their choice to resign. In the end, they have reaped what they have sown.

    The accidental recording of the private meeting was unfortunate for them. Perhaps their damaging speech and poor judgement were influenced by a mind clouded by the effects of alcohol coursing through their veins. This is why our Creator demands that we abstain from its use.

    Gayle Hori:
    I had heard about the sad news about Dr Bradley and I accidently linked to this site.Mark, Shane, and Shelly I am worried about your souls. You seem to have lost your compassion.

    Gayle, Compassion I have not lost. I don’t know these individuals. I am not aware of their lifestyle, positive or negative. I am not sitting in judgement of these people. I do however feel compelled to speak out when I hear some people who, in the name of peace and compassion, are willing to turn a blind eye to evil.

    I don’t know what was on the tapes, but I can only suspect that it must have been problematic if these four individuals resigned because of the threat of simply having their words played before the board.

    I have compassion for our young people who are being poisoned with new theology and other false teachings. The future of our church, except for God’s intervention, is in their hands. I have compassion for those who are criticized and condemned for standing for truth in the face of an alarming falling away of the standards that have defined God’s remnant people. I have compassion for those who are watching our churches adopt worship styles that lack reverence and purity and can no longer attend. I have compassion for those who have fallen away, who no longer stand under the banner of truth. And yes, I have compassion for those who recently resigned because of their words and sentiments. We need to remember that when Christ spoke words of rebuke, it was always done in love and compassion for His children.

    I am sorry that you perceive that I lack compassion, but that does not cause me to back away from my original observation.




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  17. Mark Bruno: I don’t know what was on the tapes, but I can only suspect that it must have been problematic if these four individuals resigned because of the threat of simply having their words played before the board.

    Prof Kent recently made a post defending the content of the recording as “not that bad” after he listened to it.

    It is very interesting that the four in question were instantly aware of the problem of that audio getting out to the board – to the point of resigning and yet we have some here who still do not understand the gravity of the problem EVEN when they hear the audio!

    Some seem to be bent on calling darkness light and that problem goes a long way in the believe-evolutionism-not-the-Bible debate.

    in Christ,

    Bob




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  18. BobRyan: It is very interesting that the four in question were instantly aware of the problem of that audio getting out to the board – to the point of resigning and yet we have some here who still do not understand the gravity of the problem EVEN when they hear the audio!

    Jeff’s commentary on the recordings just doesn’t match up with the reaction of the individuals recorded or board.

    Are seriously to believe that the four chose to resign over alcohol? No. Their concern was over what was on the recording. Bradley was retiring soon so his resignation probably didn’t have as much of a career impact as the other three, well except for the board member.




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  19. I read this at Spectrum:

    Jesus drank wine, said a few things that offended others, and certainly criticised administrators. He was not even a vegetarian! But was never asked to “resign”…




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  20. @Ron Nielsen: I’ve been thinking about this some more, I think I agree with you. I suppose technically LSU could claim it didn’t have anything to do with it, but if you look at the subject of Jackson and Blackmer’s meeting with LSU, I assume it had to do with the biology issue, perhaps the ensuing conversation had to do with similar topics.

    I think a strong connection can be made, but LSU is claiming a technical, which initually I was going for.




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  21. Greg W: I read this at Spectrum:Jesus drank wine, said a few things that offended others, and certainly criticised administrators. He was not even a vegetarian! But was never asked to “resign”…

    Please expand your alleged point, so that those with some intelligence can respond.




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  22. @Ron Stone M.D.: He’s just sharing a false comparison. There is no need to get into on old debate about what is alcoholic wine in the Bible. The answer is pretty clear for Seventh-day Adventists, so there is no need to argue over it with someone who shares different beliefs.




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  23. Shane Hilde: Are seriously to believe that the four chose to resign over alcohol? No. Their concern was over what was on the recording.

    The university nailed at least one of them on alcohol (we don’t know about the others, and I didn’t hear anything in the conversation that betrayed their use of alcohol, though I might have missed it).

    The concern of those who retired was indeed the conversation, because they made unflattering remarks about other individuals that they did not want to be made public. There may have been worse–I was listening intently for it and was surprised not to hear it–but I believe these remarks were the most damning things said. And, quite frankly, one could interpret that the powers that be forced the resignation out of spite.

    I’m just sharing sharing my honest take on the matter. Of course, there are Christians here who love to denounce and belittle me and call me a liar. You are one with enough integrity not to do so, and I thank you for that, Shane.




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  24. @Professor Kent: The alcohol was definitely leveraged against Bradley, but I think the recordings played a very big part in what happened. My guess is that church leadership wasn’t exactly horrified over the alcohol as it was with what was on the recording.




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  25. Ron Nielsen: Just because this incident “wasn’t related” to the witch hunt, it doesn’t mean there is no witch hunt. Nice attempt at cover!

    You people and your “witch hunt” mentality constantly amaze me. It is not a witch hunt to expose error and look for correction. This institution is our institution. We have a right to demand that the faculty, administration, and board members keep the church standards. Cover-ups and accusations of “non-Christian” behaviour by those of us who are trying our best to stand for the truth just doesn’t cut it. This is outrageous behaviour and if you are not shocked by it, then why aren’t you? There could be a million students and other supporters posting their sympathies for these people, but it doesn’t change the standards we, as SDAs, are expected to live up to. Of course everyone makes mistakes. But I think this behaviour is more indicative of moral declension.

    I have often heard about the California Adventists and their loose standards. I had come to the conclusion they are next door to Sodom and Gommorah, and this certainly does nothing to change my opinion.

    Not only am I appalled at the goings on, but I am disgusted by the supporters of the sin and sinner. There is no such thing as a little sin. Sin is sin and it will hold people out of heaven. To think that these gentlemen have had the advantage of knowing the truth and chose to disregard it makes me shake my head in disbelief. To think that their supporters think they can make sin acceptable by trying to drum up sympathy for it makes me nauseous. We are to worship God, not man–even though the “progressives” have the attitude that man is more important than God, it doesn’t make it true.

    I think the last line of Bradley’s email spoke volumes regarding his spiritual situation. He hoped that LSU would be made the most progressive SDA institution in the world. That would be tragic indeed should it come to pass. What is meant by “progressive” is, apparently, to give up the traditional SDA beliefs and become worldly. Hardly a valuable goal for any SDA institution. This indicates to me that Mr. Bradley has chosen to elevate worldly standards above God and His standards. How can you claim to follow God and follow the world’s standards? It’s like trying to mix oil and water. And the Lord will not accept this standard for His people. He showed us a better way; He called us out of the world. But like a dog returning to his vomit, some people value the world more than God. I really can’t understand it.

    I am beginning to wonder if there are many true SDAs left in California, or for that matter in the world. Maybe 144,000 will be a literal number of translated individuals if this keeps up. (Sad to say.)




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  26. I am beginning to wonder if there are many true SDAs left in California, or for that matter in the world. Maybe 144,000 will be a literal number of translated individuals if this keeps up. (Sad to say.)

    Faith, there are many bible-believing SDA’s out here in California. Wherever Satan encourages heretics and apostates, God has many people countering these problems.

    Look at the Central California Conference, where they have many leaders (although Jerry Page has left) and members doing God’s work faithfully and biblically, surrounded by the progressive agenda from the NCC, SCC, and SECC.
    Amazing Facts and the Arise Institutes are out here also, teaching and training hundred of future workers for our denomination.

    Don’t give up on California, although I admit it IS the most apostate area in GENERAL of our SDA denomination.




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  27. Not to add insult to injury. But he says that he feels as though his soul has been ripped from his body?

    Please refer to the Genesis account sir. ….and man became a living soul or being. There are three ingredients that make up the living being. They cannot stand alone from one the other.




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  28. Roy: Not to add insult to injury. But he says that he feels as though his soul has been ripped from his body?Please refer to the Genesis account sir. ….and man became a living soul or being. There are three ingredients that make up the living being. They cannot stand alone from one the other.

    Bradley admits to being essentially an SDA in name only. Don’t you think he has other beliefs besides “evolution as fact” that contradicts our bible-based SDA beliefs?

    According to progressive mantras, essentially nothing is “salvational” meaning one can believe almost anything and it doesn’t really have any effect on one’s “salvation.”

    If you think I’m nuts, go to Spectrum and read numerous comments backing this idea.




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  29. As I expected, Spectrum has been praising Bradley, and condemning ET, Graham, and the GC for this latest problem at LSU.

    Jared Wright, who is a SECC “pastor” wrote the latest article containing lots of personal praises from LSU students, ex-students, etc. for Bradley’s great work at LSU.




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  30. Greg W: I read this at Spectrum:
    Jesus drank wine, said a few things that offended others, and certainly criticised administrators. He was not even a vegetarian! But was never asked to “resign”…

    The word for wine that is used for the feast at Cana is equivalent to our phrase “grape beverage” context determines whether it was alcoholic or not. The same is true for the last supper. (Which is part of the feast of unleavend bread – so it had to be fresh juice at the time.)

    The issue in this case goes far beyond “criticised administrator” it goes to vulgar language, positions opposed to the doctrines of the church on creation, unchristian disrespect for others at a level that is not shown here towards the 4 who left even by their detractors.

    in Christ,

    Bob




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  31. Does anyone know what Bradley meant by doing his best to “earn redemption?” It was quoted from his letter printed in Dwyer’s article on Spectrum.

    Perhaps he does realize he’s done something wrong? Why would he need any redemption, unless he admits to wrongdoing?

    Is he gonna stop drinking booze? Stop “badmouthing” his “superiors” at LSU, the Board, or the GC? I don’t think he’s gonna stop teaching “evolution as fact” is he?




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  32. Jan Long, over on Spectrum, has a solution that is more “redemptive” for Bradley. Shipping him off to another SDA school and starting with a clean slate!

    Yeh, that’s how Long would handle this situation. Any school on the “short list” who want him?!




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  33. T.Joe Willey, over on Spectrum, says Bradley is up for “Outstanding Teacher of the Year” at LSU. Is he still going to get the award this Sunday? Just wondering.




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  34. Professor Kent: Mark and Shane, if you have not listened to the recordings (and it’s obvious to me you have not), you do not know what you are talking about. And you know it.

    Well, Prof, I have listened to them, and I disagree completely from your Pollyanna analysis.




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  35. I also for one don’t believe that drinking alcohol during his conversation was enough to get Bradley fired/resigned. Possibly though this issue had been addressed with him in the past. My father was a professor at an Adventist higher ed. institution. He would drink alcohol at a local restaurant frequented by students. He was asked by the provost to limit his drinking to home and not public places (by the way this was not a Californina Adventist University). My father understood the institutions stance/beliefs and chose to resign with little resentment towards the school. I believe it was wrong of my father to drink – especially in public places with his position. I am not judging his salvation but yes I am indeed judging his actions. I love my father. We can condemn Bradley’s and others actions and still love him also. By the way, students loved my father during his many years of teaching – which also does not condone his actions.




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  36. Ron Stone said “Well, Prof, I have listened to them, and I disagree completely from your Pollyanna analysis.”

    I don’t think anyone takes your opinions very seriously. I downloaded the recordings when Shane posted them last week and after listening to them I concur completely with Dr. Kent’s assessment. The conversation was nowher near as disrespectful as your typical comments. Some blog comments from Mary Hilde in 2008 are circulating and they were just as if not more so vulgar and disrespectful.




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  37. The story where Jesus wrote in the sand comes to mind. None of us are perfect, all have sinned and fallen short. All of our hearts have sinful natures and if disclosed in similar circumstances what is the result? I hope pride can be set aside and God will continue to provide wisdom to the greatest heights and depths to our leaders. Also great respect our leaders deserve. When one example could set the stage for others. I am not informed of the situation. What a reminder: to open and close our mouths with great care! Any one of us can be more effective giving our cares & concerns quietly to God instead of gathering in similar small group discussions. Just some thoughts.




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  38. Professor Kent’s Student: Ron Stone said “Well, Prof, I have listened to them, and I disagree completely from your Pollyanna analysis.”I don’t think anyone takes your opinions very seriously. I downloaded the recordings when Shane posted them last week and after listening to them I concur completely with Dr. Kent’s assessment. The conversation was nowher near as disrespectful as your typical comments. Some blog comments from Mary Hilde in 2008 are circulating and they were just as if not more so vulgar and disrespectful.

    So, you’ve been brainwashed by Kent and see things his way, heh? Well, I have over two pages of notes, with quotes from the recordings, and I’m “eady to go”anytime I get the “OK” from Shane to start sharing them online.

    Then, ALL can decide for themselves whether they’re A-OK, hunky-dorry, benign, disrespectful, etc. or not.

    Was your class from Kent “Pollyannaism 101?




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  39. Bryant Worth: I also for one don’t believe that drinking alcohol during his conversation was enough to get Bradley fired/resigned. Possibly though this issue had been addressed with him in the past. My father was a professor at an Adventist higher ed. institution. He would drink alcohol at a local restaurant frequented by students. He was asked by the provost to limit his drinking to home and not public places (by the way this was not a Californina Adventist University). My father understood the institutions stance/beliefs and chose to resign with little resentment towards the school. I believe it was wrong of my father to drink – especially in public places with his position. I am not judging his salvation but yes I am indeed judging his actions. I love my father. We can condemn Bradley’s and others actions and still love him also. By the way, students loved my father during his many years of teaching – which also does not condone his actions.

    Bryant, There is a LOT more on these tapes than just some “rum and colas” being imbibed. If you haven’t listened, then I suggest you try hard to find a friend who has a copy. It shouldn’t be difficult.

    The totally arrogant attitude regarding NAD personnel, GC personnel, fellow Board members, LSU administrators, and even other SDA colleges is amazing, including vulgar language and homophobic “slurs.” Numerous people are named specifically, most of which you would immediately recognize.

    There is a good reason WHY all these characters “resigned.”




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  40. Ron Stone (and anyone else with a desire to make irresponsible and loose statements similar to his):

    You just may want to temper your catty remarks and observations regarding the contents of the recording, unless you’re anxious to become named as another defendant. By the way, don’t take my word for this; check with Shane directly.

    (Shane, it might be wise to more closely monitor the posts of people like Ron Stone, who tend to write words quite irresponsibly, with little apparent understanding of the potential consequences for himself or this website.)




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  41. Jim: Ron Stone (and anyone else with a desire to make irresponsible and loose statements similar to his): You just may want to temper your catty remarks and observations regarding the contents of the recording, unless you’re anxious to become named as another defendant. By the way, don’t take my word for this; check with Shane directly.(Shane, it might be wise to more closely monitor the posts of people like Ron Stone, who tend to write words quite irresponsibly, with little apparent understanding of the potential consequences for himself or this website.)

    I have checked with Shane,and I have been instructed not to “quote from the audio recordings.” Thus, I have not.

    However, others are making THEIR opinions known about the tapes, and thus, I believe I should voice my opinion regarding them. Are just the “positive” comments allowed?

    Kent and others think they’re A-OK,and state why. I say they aren’t and tell why.

    Are we not allowed to actually address the issue mentioned?

    We’d better take down the article and the issue then!




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  42. @Jim, Are they gonna sue Adventist Spectrum also? Read Bonnie Dwyer’s article there, mentioning the same thing I have, and she and Spectrum SUPPORT these guys!

    If you disagree, please read the Spectrum articles over the past two years and the majority of the posts there.

    It seems to me that if anyone is sued, it’s gonna be Darnell, since he recorded the stuff and sent it out for evaluation.




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  43. Ron,

    I believe Shane is ‘up to speed’ on his responsibilities and any potential problems, as well as with his duty to monitor those posting on his site.

    I suspect Bonnie Dwyer and those over at Spectrum are also aware of their responsibilities, and the potential problems they can face from information they or others post on their site. Regardless though, it is not your or my responsibility to tell them what to do (or not to do).

    I think it is safe to say that any information posted here should fully comply with all posting guidelines, and direct references to information that may still legally be considered private (and obviously any statements that may be considered possibly defamatory) should certainly be avoided–and especially so on this site, since most of us are presumably wanting to lead Spirit-filled and Christlike lives in every way possible, regardless of the actions of those around us.




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  44. The fact is, Ron, the information on the recording is not AT ALL your business or the business of anyone else (save the principals directly in the situation), no matter how interesting or salacious you or anyone else may find it to be.

    If, God forbid, you found yourself in a situation similar to these four unfortunate individuals, would you want complete strangers–with no prior knowledge or legal interest in the matter–listening to and then gossiping about the embarrassing contents of the recording?

    This is not to say there shouldn’t be consequences for their actions; there should be, and there have been. It’s being handled, however rightly or wrongly, by those with a direct interest in the matter.

    And that doesn’t include you, or me, or practically anyone else. And just because others can’t contain themselves on this site, or on Spectrum or wherever, doesn’t give any of the rest of us any license to behave likewise.

    You and many others have been agitating for matters to be addressed at LSU; it’s been awhile in the making, but obviously they are currently being dealt with by those in charge. Let them do their jobs, without unnecessary interference.

    You and I and everyone else have absolutely no direct ‘interest’ in the details of the recording, other than a purely prurient fascination, and I can’t believe that is a path God would want any of us to follow.




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  45. I find it ironic that the fellow Darnell put on his cell phone to record the meeting, and then forgot to take it off: he wanted to catch the truth, and he ended up catching himself. Good job, man! He then drove to the house where all four men proceeded to talk “privately”, non-Christian talk, profanity, and negative attitudes and talk against the church. Why were they drinking alcohol? Doesn’t the Bible, never mind the church, say that alcohol loosens the tongue, and loose lips sink ships. It is better to say less rather than more. They did it to themselves. What shakespearean irony. God’s light touch is in evidence here. We have all sinned and come short of the glory, but the consequences of sin remain. You are given a trust and when you missue that trust and speak against your employer, you can get fired. They did it to themselves: they weren’t fired; they resigned because of the tape. Would have loved to hear the tape. Teach evolution if you must, but balance it by teaching the Word of God too!, and let the young minds decide.




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  46. @Faith:

    Actually, looking for and exposing error is the definition of a witch hunt, e.g. the Salem witch trials, and the Spanish Inquisition!

    I am not surprised at the witch hunt because I have seen it over and over again in the Adventist church. Kellogg, Jones and Wagner, Ford, Brimsmead, Numbers, Standish, and many others. Our president recently asked every member in the church to speak up for religious liberty. How can you ask civil governments to grant religious liberty if you are not willing to grant religious liberty within the church?

    After all, what is Religious Liberty if it isn’t the principle that the majority needs to grant the minority the right to be wrong? I don’t see the current attitude in the Seventh-day Adventist church as much different than the attitude in the Catholic church during the Spanish Inquisition. Orthodoxy always excludes and kills. Granted, we aren’t burning people at the stake, but threatening their job is about as close to that as a church can get in the United States today. I think “Educate Truth” is proof that Seventh-day Adventists do not believe in Religious Liberty.

    Jesus did not call us to search for and expose error, He called us to search for and expose the truth. There is a big difference.




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  47. J: I find it ironic that the fellow Darnell put on his cell phone to record the meeting, and then forgot to take it off: he wanted to catch the truth, and he ended up catching himself. Good job, man! He then drove to the house where all four men proceeded to talk “privately”, non-Christian talk, profanity, and negative attitudes and talk against the church. Why were they drinking alcohol? Doesn’t the Bible, never mind the church, say that alcohol loosens the tongue, and loose lips sink ships. It is better to say less rather than more. They did it to themselves. What shakespearean irony. God’s light touch is in evidence here. We have all sinned and come short of the glory, but the consequences of sin remain. You are given a trust and when you missue that trust and speak against your employer, you can get fired. They did it to themselves: they weren’t fired; they resigned because of the tape. Would have loved to hear the tape. Teach evolution if you must, but balance it by teaching the Word of God too!, and let the young minds decide.

    I agree completely. God IS great, and we see Him working here.




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  48. Jim: The fact is, Ron, the information on the recording is not AT ALL your business or the business of anyone else (save the principals directly in the situation), no matter how interesting or salacious you or anyone else may find it to be.

    @Jim, Well, it seems as though it has been “made” the business of just about everyone, even those at Spectrum, AT, and here.

    It IS my “business” when our SDA schools, churches, and other institutions are infiltrated by those who want to tear down our bible-based beliefs and then teach such to our SDA students.

    Maybe it isn’t YOUR business, and perhaps you don’t care what happens at our schools and in our churches, but those who have some integrity for God’s Word and our denomination DO.




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  49. I ask Shane and others–are we under a “gag order” now?

    If so, then take this topic down and stop sharing information about what is going on. Leave us all “in the dark” and see how things can really become chaotic.




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  50. Jim: Ron, I believe Shane is ‘up to speed’ on his responsibilities and any potential problems, as well as with his duty to monitor those posting on his site. I suspect Bonnie Dwyer and those over at Spectrum are also aware of their responsibilities, and the potential problems they can face from information they or others post on their site. Regardless though, it is not your or my responsibility to tell them what to do (or not to do).I think it is safe to say that any information posted here should fully comply with all posting guidelines, and direct references to information that may still legally be considered private (and obviously any statements that may be considered possibly defamatory) should certainly be avoided–and especially so on this site, since most of us are presumably wanting to lead Spirit-filled and Christlike lives in every way possible, regardless of the actions of those around us.

    So, Jim, are we under a “gag order?” And who ordered it? You? Shane? LSU? The Board? The GC?




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  51. Ron Stone M.D.: So, you’ve been brainwashed by Kent and see things his way, heh?

    FYI, I don’t know who “Professor Kent’s Student” is, and have some reason to doubt the individual knows me personally.

    What I do know is that I am finished with this website for the time being. I am sick and tired of the gossip and bullying that goes on here endlessly. This is the biggest embarrassment to God’s cause I’ve ever seen in my lifetime. Bash on.




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  52. Dr. Stone,

    In both of your responses to me, you’ve made my point MORE relevant, not less.

    PLEASE READ WHAT I WROTE MORE CAREFULLY. I said THE SPECIFIC DETAILS of what was said on the recording are not any of your business, or the business of anyone else, besides the actual principals.

    None of us are principals with anything to do directly with any of the specific contents of the recording.

    I didn’t say the overall situation at LSU didn’t have a legitimate impact on many of the rest of us. There are many parts of the creation/evolution dialogue that are certainly worthwhile to be discussing in a public forum.

    I was simply pointing out that any effort to gossip about any possibly salacious details of the actual recorded private conversation was simply not any of your concern, or that of anyone else.

    Unless your explicit desire and intent is to continue to feed the prurient interests of yourself and others, you (and everyone else) should focus your interests elsewhere. What other people may irresponsibly do or say does NOT give you or anyone else the license to behave likewise. We should be better people than that.

    In closing, I would point out the following: NO ONE (again, except the principals in the matter) should even be listening to the recording. What possible good, or value, can listening actually have? The individuals involved have already been confronted with the details, and decisions have been made and actions taken.

    At this point it can only be morbid curiosity and a very unholy prurient motivation that would drive someone to even listen to the details, let alone insist on gossiping about them all over the internet.

    Please, just stop–for your own sake as well as the sake of others.




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  53. Please, just stop–for your own sake as well as the sake of others.

    @Jim, Your wish has been answered! Shane has just informed me that Bob Ryan and myself are now officially BANNED from Educate Truth.




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  54. @Jim, Please read your email yourself, and see that my “quote” regarding your post is accurate. The word “information” is used, as I quoted.




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  55. @Ron Nielsen: witches were witches and needed to be identified and stopped, but not burned or hanged. Wrongs in our church have to be identified and dealt with in the most Christian way. Yet, that way may be painful for the wrongdoer. But if he is truly a Christian too, he will take it the way a Christian would and learn to do what’s right.




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  56. Ron said: “I am not surprised at the witch hunt because I have seen it over and over again in the Adventist church. Kellogg, Jones and Wagner, Ford, Brimsmead, Numbers, Standish, and many others. Our president recently asked every member in the church to speak up for religious liberty. How can you ask civil governments to grant religious liberty if you are not willing to grant religious liberty within the church?”

    Ok, Ron, then what do we do when heresy raises its ugly head? Are we supposed to grant heretics the liberty to pollute our church with falsehood? If nothing is done, the church will become another Babylon…history has shown that over and over. Surely you don’t think God approves of all this going on, do you?

    There have been procedures established for church discipline because it is necessary from time to time. You seem to think it unkind and unchristian to put a stop to heresy within the church, but consider this: if it is not stopped many will be deceived by it, many will lose eternal life because of it. Is that kind and Christian? I think not. Your comments smack of this humanistic heresy that is also infiltrating the church. Hopefully you will not be deceived by it yourself. Never sympathize with sin…for if you do, you become a partaker with it.




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  57. Professor Kent’s Student: Ron Stone said “Well, Prof, I have listened to them, and I disagree completely from your Pollyanna analysis.”I don’t think anyone takes your opinions very seriously. I downloaded the recordings when Shane posted them last week and after listening to them I concur completely with Dr. Kent’s assessment. The conversation was nowher near as disrespectful as your typical comments. Some blog comments from Mary Hilde in 2008 are circulating and they were just as if not more so vulgar and disrespectful.

    I have recently been able to hear these recordings, and I was actually shocked at the disparaging remarks and profanity made by these LSU administrators and staff, not only at the GC representatives, but at fellow staff and board members. Are these men typical of the rest of the LSU staff? I would hope not!




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  58. Ron Nielsen: I am not surprised at the witch hunt because I have seen it over and over again in the Adventist church. Kellogg, Jones and Wagner, Ford, Brimsmead, Numbers, Standish, and many others. Our president recently asked every member in the church to speak up for religious liberty. How can you ask civil governments to grant religious liberty if you are not willing to grant religious liberty within the church?

    Ron Nelson apparently is not fully aware of the definition of religious liberty.

    Forbidding a given Christian entity to weed out its own apostates is a denial of religious liberty to that organization. At present we are free to disfellowship or to refuse admitance to those who do not hold to our doctrines.

    But if the government were to step in and deny us that right – they would be restricting religious liberty.

    You have the freedom to preach against once saved always saved — you do NOT have the civil authority to force Baptists to pay you for doing so, nor can you force them to grant you membership. And if you did have that civil power and used it in that way you would be denying them their religious liberties.

    in Christ,

    Bob




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  59. Holly Pham: I have recently been able to hear these recordings, and I was actually shocked at the disparaging remarks and profanity made by these LSU administrators and staff, not only at the GC representatives, but at fellow staff and board members. Are these men typical of the rest of the LSU staff? I would hope not!

    According to Kent – he heard the audio and then concluded that the discussion was pretty much average for what he is used to and he does not see why anyone would object.

    In my opinion his statement says more about his own view of right and wrong than it does about the content of the tape.

    in Christ,

    Bob




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