Comment on Open letter to General Conference by Jonathan Smith.
JohnB: It would be very easy to go off on a tangent and discuss what constitutes Babylon, and what constitutes the ‘Church’.That would not be appropriate in this forum.I agree Jonathan, that the Adventist Church, is not Babylon, per se.Some people in it do hold to babylonish ideas, but the church fundamentally holds to Biblical doctrines (yes, even the administrators, Eugene).That being said, I don’t think the SDA ‘church’(militant) is the ‘Church’ of Revelation (triumphant), noting Christ’s own words to the Samaritan woman (the one that had five husbands)in John 4:20-24:“4:20Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.4:21Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.4:22Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.4:23But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.4:24God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.â€Christ could have said the same thing about the SDA church, and other denominations:
“The hour cometh when ye shall neither in this church (non-SDA church), nor yet in the SDA church worship the Father….God [is] a spirit.They that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.â€For Eugene to imply the SDA church is Babylon, however, is way off too.
I have an interesting study that shows the parallels between Jesus and the Samaritan woman and the harlot in Revelation 17. Study it and you will see the comparisons (harlots, worship on mountain, seven husbands {5 past, current one is not, seventh is not yet}, come [call] out of the city) Samaritans have seven gods which were worshipped on high places 2 Kings 17:30-31. They were not Israelites but Babylonian peoples brought to Israel by the Assyrians.
BTW, this is one of the keys to Revelation 17 that our seminarians find so hard to crack. Our online prophecy group got great insight some 2 or 3 years ago.
I just want to point out that in this thread I was responding to John Haase who implied that, it was not Eugene. No doubt Eugene has written something along those lines, though.
Yet to teach evolution is true is clearly and without a doubt the worst sin there is. For that has consequences:
1) God is a liar – He did not make the world
2) Even if He did, He did not do it in a literal 7-day week
3) God did not make the world because He does not exist
4) God does not exist and Christians have accomplished the greatest event ever possible – they created God.
5) Since Christians created a non existent God they are a people most pitiable, miserable and deranged, certainly not of the fittest.
6) Give the state of Christians, eugenics should be revisited
7) Hitler all over again
Jonathan Smith Also Commented
Open letter to General Conference
Sean Pitman M.D.:
You’re mistaken when it comes to God’s Law.Jesus himself excused wrongful acts of the ignorant saying that if a person didn’t know of the wrongfulness of a thought or act, they wouldn’t be guilty of sin (John 9:41).It is therefore only when one knows that something is wrong, and deliberately does it anyway, that one is guilty of sin.And, only God clearly knows what someone really does and does not know or has or has not deliberately rejected or refused to know… i.e., sinned.Sean Pitman
http://www.DetectingDesign.com
Sean,
The Bible does not contradict itself so we can explore the text you refer to in context.
John 9:39-41 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind. 40 And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also? 41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.
This was the incident when Jesus healed a man who was born blind.
John 9:2-3 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? 3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.
In this real story, Jesus clearly states that there was no sin that caused this man to be in blindness. Instead, it appears God deliberately allowed him to be born blind so He could do a mighty work and teach some stubborn people a lesson – hopefully leading them to the light.
The blindness the evolutionists have is quite like the blindness of the Pharisees rather than of this born-blind man. Many have shown them the word of God and you yourself has shown them what you believe to be real evidence or arguments that refute evolutionary theory and support a recent creation. For this cause, the evolutionists here – the SDA evolutionists – those Sister White stated as having disguised infidelity, have no excuse.
There comes a time when we have to give the trumpet a certain sound, when we point out sin and its consequences, and not leave any poor soul deluded that their rebellion will be seen by God in their light. Every believer in God has a responsibility to believe and live by EVERY WORD OF GOD (Luke 4:4; Matt 4:4) and there can be no quibble.
Commenting on the passage you referenced, she said:
The manifestation of divine power that had given to the blind man both natural and spiritual sight had left the Pharisees in yet deeper darkness. Some of His hearers, feeling that Christ’s words applied to them, inquired, “Are we blind also?” Jesus answered, “If ye were blind, ye should have no sin.” If God had made it impossible for you to see the truth, your ignorance would involve no guilt. “But now ye say, We see.” You believe yourselves able to see, and reject the means through which alone you could receive sight. To all who realized their need, Christ came with infinite help. But the Pharisees would confess no need; they refused to come to Christ, and hence they were left in blindness,–a blindness for which they were themselves guilty. Jesus said, “Your sin remaineth.” {DA 475.3}
Open letter to General Conference
Sean Pitman M.D.:
Be careful Jonathan.You are making a moral judgment here when you cannot do so.A belief in an error is not, in and of itself, a sin.Evolutionists are not wicked just because they believe in a false theory.Certainly there are many very good and very honest and sincere evolutionists.Salvation isn’t based on knowledge, but on motive…Sean Pitman
http://www.DetectingDesign.com
Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.
Luke 12:47-48 And that servant, which knew his lord’s will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
Sean,
I am not speaking about sincerely deluded evolutionists who have never seen the arguments and research of creationists.
Nevertheless, your argument lacks theological support.
Ignorance of the law is never an excuse in any jurisdiction. As the texts above show, lack of proper knowledge is NOT an excuse since the knowledge is accessible but they simply refused to access or believe it.
We are saved by grace through faith (only) but those who call themselves SDA Christians and refuse to have faith in God’s word call Him a liar and have exalted the creature over the Creator. Without faith it is IMPOSSIBLE to please God.
Given that we all have access to the same word of God, why is it that some believe God and some don’t? The mystery of iniquity does indeed work.
I do not find any comfort or solace for Christian evolutionists – yet I am not their judge, God is. He will judge justly but I truly fear for their souls.
Open letter to General Conference
Lydian Belknap: Would someone please explain to me why we need Adventist schools–with their hugh tuition costs–if they don’t teach solid Adventist doctrines?Would someone also please explain to me why it is taking such a long time to deal with this problem (and others) in our schools?Where are the “watchmen on the walls of Zion?â€Are they “asleep at the helm†of our wonderful church?I realize I don’t know the whole story and am not privy to all the workings of the varuious committes but it just seems to me that things are moving much more slowly than God approves of.
God is patient and long suffering. Our time is not His time. Let us do our bit of applying pressure and pray for His intervention and leave it to Him to bring sense out of this fiasco.
I sincerely hope that the evolutionists will realise the error of their ways and repent before it is too late.
Why should they die when God does not love the death of the wicked? Why should they despise Someone who has only shown them love? Why should they reject the word of One who cannot lie? Why should man be so arrogant as to believe he knows more than God? The mystery of iniquity does indeed work.
Praise God for His goodness toward the children of men. Thank Him for His mercy and grace. This issue, though so insulting and damaging to the character of God is only one issue of the many He has to deal with in trying to save us. So of necessity He exercises patience in the hope that the evolutionists, who would see what creationists have written will repent of the error of their ways.
It is the glory of God to save the vilest sinner so there will be great glory and rejoicing when even one of them is converted.
Recent Comments by Jonathan Smith
LSU statement regarding resignations and Bradley’s email
Eccl 12:13-14
Private Recorded Conversation Prompts La Sierra Resignations
Eccl 12:13-14
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
There are some who object to privately recorded conversations being used in this manner (like the Spectrum blog) but could it be that God is causing judgment on unacceptable behaviour?
[6/17/11 UPDATE] Two administrators, one biology professor, and one board member resign
Marilyn Bauer:
I stand in support of Educate Truth and its efforts to maintain integrity on an SDA campus of higher education. “Once to every man and nation (university) comes the moment to decide, in the strife of truth and falsehood, for the good or evil side.â€Our church history shows that we have had to watch church institutions (Battle Creek San and Hospital) leave the sisterhood of institutions due to false teachings by its leadership. We should not be surprised if the cost of fidelity to truth has a price. Politically, we know that freedom has a price. Spiritually, fidelity to truth has a price.I regret that Shane is coming under attack for having the courage to keep the light burning for doctrinal truth in Adventist education. We have long purported the idea of integration of faith and learning. Why would we want to excuse a science department who moves away from the “faith†aspect of its discipline?
All those who decide to live a Biblically faithful life shall suffer persecution.
[6/17/11 UPDATE] Two administrators, one biology professor, and one board member resign
Casey,
You ought to grow up. I don’t see how Educate Truth can cause anybody to be fired. After all, it does not pay salaries and it is not a decision maker at all. Educate Truth has only been a commentator.
If the university Chair said the issues with the bio dept are not the factors, then you should take up your beef with the chair and indeed ask him for the explanations. It is rather small of you to attack Hilde and his blog at a time like this.
If at anytime in the future there is evidence (not speculation) to support your claim, THEN you may rant and rail. Yet, you apparently have no idea what it means to be faithful to the Bible and you either accept evolution as fact or saw no conflict with what the professors taught.
If at all you consider yourself a Christian, I hope you recognise that faithfulness to Bible truths is more important than worldly honour and all will have to give an account for their actions later. I think Educate Truth has tried to be faithful to the Bible contrary to some professed Christians.
Former LSU student letter reveals professor’s agenda
Where men refused to deal with the apostates, those in charge will be accounted as guilty.
In the great reckoning to come they will pay.
I am glad this lady had the courage to speak and write. The evidence is plain for all to see.