The following are excerpts from an Adventist Review article titled “Adventist Accrediting Team to Visit La Sierra University” by Mark Kellner. The sub-heading reads, “Biology issues to be on docket, at school’s suggestion.”
“The Adventist Accrediting Association, or AAA, will examine the highly charged debate over the teaching of origins at La Sierra University during a visit the week of November 15 to the school.”
“The site visit is expected to bring nine Adventist educational administrators and experts to the Seventh-day Adventist tertiary institution in Riverside, California. Every ten years, the AAA conducts a site visit at the institution, to consider the renewal of the school’s accreditation by the group.”
[Excerpt]
“The recent controversy over the teaching of origins at La Sierra apparently falls under the purview of the site visit team, particularly since the school itself included the matter in ‘self-study’ documents prepared before the visit, said Dr. Niels-Erik Andreasen, president of Andrews University and leader of the inspection visit.”
“At the heart of the controversy is the way evolution is presented to biology undergraduate students. Some, including student Louis [sic] Bishop and LSU alumnus Shane Hilde, contend professors are presenting evolution as the reliable theory of origins and diminish the notion of creation, which is a fundamental belief of the Seventh-day Adventist Church. Bishop said he was placed on ‘citizenship probation’ by the school for circulating letters opposing the teaching of evolutionary concepts and for posting notes of a professor’s lecture online, despite a verbal agreement that Bishop would not do so without consulting the teacher. (See Adventist Review, April 15 and June 10, 2010.)”
[Excerpt]
“[Niels-Erik Andreasen] stressed ‘this does not respond to LSU in the news. It is a regular, 10-year accreditation visit that will look at all the standards the AAA has maintained.'”
[Excerpt]
“Pastor Daniel R. Jackson, NAD president and a former college church pastor, told Adventist Review in an interview that division leadership is looking to the site visit team for leadership. He said he’d e-mailed GC Education director Dr. Lisa M. Beardsley and, while recognizing that the AAA site visit is primarily to weigh the school’s performance against established criteria, ‘I appealed to them to reflect upon the understandings and philosophy of the church as they carry out this task.'”
“The site visit is expected to last four days, and there is no immediate indication of when results would be publicly announced.”
Alex has stated that the AAA report has concluded. Does anyone have something like “information”? Details that indicate the degree to which LSU will be prohibited from (or encouraged to) continue promoting evolutionism in their biology and religion departments as the right answer for a doctrine on origins of all complex genomes (birds come from reptiles fashion)?
in Christ,
Bob
BobRyan(Quote)
View CommentReally? Then why this website?
Professor Kent(Quote)
View CommentPro Kent, that is patently absurd: I will counter that if our universities are THAT vulnerable as to be able to be destroyed by factual comments & stories of substance, then they aren’t supported by righteousness in the first place.
The SDA Universities doing what is right by God have nothing to worry about — HE will sustain them. Truth has no fear of error. Never has, never will – end of story!
Former Student(Quote)
View Comment@Professor Kent: Are you saying it’s better to keep our biology departments open even though it’ll be teaching heresy? It’s better to close our colleges than to hand them over to error with the Seventh-day Adventist name still on them.
To advocate putting up with it just because is absolutely delusional and an insult to our God. We’re making too many excuses for keeping the status quo. God’s people need a little bit more backbone, even if it means plucking out the right eye. Unfortunately, such is the nature of sin. It’s removal may be very painful for most.
Johnny Vance(Quote)
View CommentRe Bob’s Quote
“Ken – the empire that follows Greece is Rome. The division of Rome as predicted in the vision leaves that empire fragmented to this very day. And as predicted attempts were made to rebuild the empire through royal blood line marriages – in fact all the heads of state in Europe were connected by blood line or marriage at one time.
in Christ,
Bob BobRyan(Quote)”
Dear Bob
Thanks again, I appreciate your comments and defer to your scholarship of the Bible.
My point is whether there is anything in Daniel that prophecizes about empires since the demise of the Roman Empire: i.e. British Empire, French under Napoleon, Third Reich, Russian, American, Chinese – happening currently? Not all of these empires are necessarily connected to Rome. What does the bible have to say about them?
Thanks
Ken
Ken(Quote)
View CommentKen – the empire that follows Greece is Rome. The division of Rome as predicted in the vision leaves that empire fragmented to this very day. And as predicted attempts were made to rebuild the empire through royal blood line marriages – in fact all the heads of state in Europe were connected by blood line or marriage at one time.
in Christ,
Bob
BobRyan(Quote)
View Comment@Ron: Unfortunately Ron, unfortunately a “kinder more gentler” approach to doctrine is probably too wishy washy for many of us. We have moved to the place that EGW predicted where “every wind of doctrine is blowing in the church.”
Progressives are mistaken if they thinks that I dont love them as my siblings in Jesus, because I do. I do think that our beliefs do need to be well defined to prevent confusion and misunderstanding. Words mean things and beliefs affect our behavior.
“The days are fast approaching when there will be great perplexity and confusion. Satan, clothed in angel robes, will deceive, if possible, the very elect. There will be gods many and lords many. Every wind of doctrine will be blowing. Those who have rendered supreme homage to “science falsely so called” will not be the leaders then. Those who have trusted to intellect, genius, or talent will not then stand at the head of rank and file. They did not keep pace with the light. Those who have proved themselves unfaithful will not then be entrusted with the flock. In the last solemn work few great men will be engaged. They are self-sufficient, independent of God, and He cannot use them. The Lord has faithful servants, who in the shaking, testing time will be disclosed to view. There are precious ones now hidden who have not bowed the knee to Baal. They have not had the light which has been shining in a concentrated blaze upon you. But it may be under a rough and uninviting exterior the pure brightness of a genuine Christian character will be revealed. In the day time we look toward heaven but do not see the stars. They are there, fixed in the firmament, but the eye cannot distinguish them. In the night we behold their genuine luster.”
“The time is not far distant when the test will come to every soul. The mark of the beast will be urged upon us. Those who have step by step yielded to worldly demands and conformed to worldly customs will not find it a hard matter to yield to the powers that be, rather than subject themselves to derision, insult, threatened imprisonment, and death. The contest is between the commandments of God and the commandments of men. In this time the gold will be separated from the dross in the church. True godliness will be clearly distinguished from the appearance and tinsel of it. Many a star that we have admired for its brilliancy will then go out in darkness. Chaff like a cloud will be borne away on the wind, even from places where we see only floors of rich wheat. All who assume the ornaments of the sanctuary, but are not clothed with Christ’s righteousness, will appear in the shame of their own nakedness.” Ellen G. White, 5 Testimonies pages 80-81
D. Fender(Quote)
View Comment@Ernie Medina, Jr.: Ernie, God is sovereign. He will do what is right. I trust Him in this situation. His timeline is not always our timeline. Remember that the wheat and the tares grow together until the harvest. I certainly hope that this problem is fixed this week and that more young Adventist minds are not drawn away from the Creator and His Church to follow the god’s of this world! Sister White describes this situation perfectly as I have quoted her in other locations on this blog.
Certainly we are very near the second coming. We are also behind on the spreading of the message. We are told that the work that could have been done in a time of prosperity will have to be done in a time of extreme adversity. Come quickly Lord Jesus!
D. Fender(Quote)
View Comment@Professor Kent:
What method would you approve of in dealing with this issue? Apparently talking behind closed doors does not work. I ask this question with the utmost respect.
Also, I must agree with D.Fender that others have brought strange fire into the camp. Whereas the Lord never forces His ideology down our throats, I’m disturbed to hear how others are claiming He’s doing just that by standing His ground, ground that is rightfully His, for He is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow, and the Founder of that “camp”. Or perhaps His agents on earth should allow this strange fire into the camp? Wouldn’t they then be guilty of falling asleep at their posts? If God’s people neglect to guard the walls of Jerusalem, then the Lord Himself will come down and do the work for us, and it will be more terrible, and we ourselves will have to answer for our neglect. And believe me, I don’t want to have to face my Lord and answer why I neglected to watch my post.
Johnny Vance(Quote)
View Comment@D. Fender:
I wouldn’t go that far, D. Fender. Being an alumnus of AU, I know Dr. Andreasen personally and he is a God-fearing man, so I would not expect for him to just give it a rubber-stamp of approval.
Also, while people are involved in running our church, and there have been instances of abuse and mis-use in our church administration (I saw some things first-hand as a SM in one of our division HQs), this is nothing new, judging from the Bible. Believe it or not, you will never find a “perfect” church, just like you will never find a hospital that only has “well people” in it! The church was made for sinners, which means we’re going to have “evil politics” now and then.
While there are “bad SDA administrators” at all levels, the vast majority of our leadership is dedicated, sacrificial, and God-fearing as well. No, they are not perfect (who is? I know I’m not, and I’m pretty sure you aren’t either), but we all do the best, with God’s grace.
And that’s what is the most amazing thing of all–what God can do with IMPERFECT people, “evil politics” and all! That way, we can know that there is no way we can get the credit when amazing things happen in our church!!! Only God can get the credit.
So no matter what happens with this issue at LSU, God’s will, will be done, DESPITE (or INSPITE) whatever WASC and AAA conclude. Ultimately, God is in control…this is HIS college, not the GC or the SDA church. ALL of this is His!!!
Ernie Medina, Jr.(Quote)
View Comment@Professor Kent: I am not a difficult person to please. Just make the necessary changes and most, if not all of the supporters of Educate Truth will be happy. Do I think that this is going to happen? No. This is not an accident that this is happening. It is calculated, purposeful, and persistent. I suspect you are a part of the problem. Your group is determined to shove this down the throats of the students and church members to take the church decidedly left so they will accept all of societies political correctness. You have a definite agenda to push and you are not going to give up. We will not give up either! The stakes are too high, the minds and souls of our young people.
D. Fender(Quote)
View CommentWho is on the AAA Team visiting LSU?
Jonathan Taylor(Quote)
View CommentA Word from our sponsors. Ted Wilson has new “ownership” of this problem and so does Daniel Jackson our new NAD president. Ted Wilson reported to the “Yes Creation” group at the GC session in August that the LSU problem would be addressed and corrected by his administration. He asked for prayers and used language that indicated he expected a very difficult challenge from those promoting what is going on there.
As a result – I for one do not think this AAA visit is nothing more than a “All flowers and roses rubber stamping” exercise. Rather than supposing the worst – I would ask that all who have been urging that this problem get fixed – engage in prayer this week that the AAA team will make wise decisions and that those at LSU who do not wish to be part of the problem will make themselves known.
When Moses came down from Sinai the first question he asked was “who is on the Lord’s side”. We all need to respond to that call in the sphere that God has appointed us. So if you are not actually engaged in evaluating LSU this week – my suggestion is prayer.
in Christ,
Bob
BobRyan(Quote)
View Comment@ D Fender
I would expect this of you, and you are sooooo wrong. I have stated dozens of times here, and at other venues (e.g., Adventist Today), that I have no issue with the motive of Educate Truth. It’s the method I completely despise.
I accept the same SDA fundamental beliefs that you and Educate Truth do. And I believe that the Church’s position on origins issues must be taught and with respect. However, I differ in who I see as shoving ideology down others’ throats.
Professor Kent(Quote)
View Comment“Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen”
One potential solution to the crisis is to recognise that science and theology are not about the same things. Theology is about faith, what is not seen, and therefore does not require any evidence. It’s only authority is the Bible. Because Faith is not about evidence, evidence can never treaten one’s faith. Theology should be taught in religion classes.
Science on the otherhand is not about faith. It is about evidence, that which can be seen. Science does not, and should not require faith. It is about what you can see, touch, taste, and smell and it should be taught in a science class.
We should not expect there to be congruence between the two. If what we learned by faith always correlated with what we learned by science, then there would be no need for faith. There would be no need for “the Just to live by faith”. Faith would in fact cease to exist. If science always showed us only what we had previously believed by faith, then there would be no need for exploration and testing. One of the fundamental characteristics of humanity, curiosity, would have no fulfilment. It would become a very boring and stagnant world indeed.
As a church, I think we need to affirm both faith and science. Let each of the departments teach their appropriate disciplines with full academic freedom. As a church we should insist on mutual respect between disciplines. Neither theology, nor science departments should demand exclusive right to truth because we are all human and our vision is subject to distortion, “now we see darkly”. The rest of us, the laymen, need to learn to live in a world of dynamic tension between faith and sight. As Adventist’s, is that not in fact an important part of our unique message? That the Great Controversy is in fact a grand experiment to discover truth? To turn “faith” to “not faith”, to turn what is not seen into that which is revealed? According the doctrine of the investigative judgement, even God gives everyone freedom and reserves judgement unil the end, when all the evidence is in. As Adventists I believe we need not only to tolerate the difference, but to affirm and endorse the difference as the way to a more complete and dynamic life of faith.
Another part of being Adventist is, or at least should be, confidence that God loves us, and leads us even when we are theologically wrong. We have had to abandon our fundamental beliefs (the second coming in 1884) and re-interpret the Bible before (the investigative judgement). And we were blessed as a result. I think we should be humble enough to always hold our “Fundamental beliefs” loosely. Many in the Adventist church believe the Bible can be interpreted in a way that allows for long geologic time and evolution, and still maintain our belief in God as the creator, and the Sabbath truth. At least to me those do not seem to be mutually exclusive beliefs. Maybe with a little tolerance we could explore those ideas a little. Maybe they are all wrong and the exploration won’t go anywhere, but on the otherhand, maybe this will turn out to be one of those “other mines of truth” that Mrs. White spoke about. Part of the excitement of prospecting for truth is the not knowing. Most of the time you wind up being wrong, but once in awhile you strike it big and your spiritual life is enriched beyond your wildest imagination. For me, having the freedom to prospect is the most fundamental of fundamental beliefs. Christ died to give me the right to be wrong, and to still live with him eternally.
Ron(Quote)
View Comment@ D. Fender:
LSU has affirmed that it is Adventist, that it fully supports the SDA Church, and teaches its fundamental beliefs. Are you, like others here have stated, saying they are lying? Some here have stated very clearly, and repeatedly, that the majority of their biology faculty believe and continue to teach theistic evolution. No one has established this as a majority view, and no one has offered one tidbit of evidence that theistic evolution was taught last year by their biology faculty. Not one video. Not one syllabus. Not one set of lecture notes. And now the university has asked the proper authority of the Church (not EducateTruth) to examine its teaching of biology.
Many statements posted here are indeed malicious (obviously), very likely false (though you think otherwise), and defamatory (obviously). What would you prefer to call it other than slander?
Professor Kent(Quote)
View CommentThe cynicism I see being expressed here is astounding! Finally we have a church approved and church funded solution to the LSU situation and all most people here seem to assume is that nothing will change. How many of you have ever served on a committee tasked with difficult decisions like this one? It’s easy to propose simplistic solutions from the outside, but it’s a whole ‘nother thing to work out real solutions that hae lasting impact. I think the more conservative members of Educate Truth will not be satisfied until all our institutions follow the approach taken by places like Wiemar. Well, that not going to happen, for sure, and even if it did all that would accomplish is the ruin of our fine SDA educational system.
Do our schools have problems? Of course! I have visisted many of our schools myself and spent a considerable amount of time several of them. Our schools are run by sinful, flaw-ridden human beings. I would have it no other way. We could try and run our schools entirely by saints, could enough of them be found, but then who woud decide who are saints and who sinners?
Educate Truth has asked the church to look into this, and whatya know, it is, and now all I see is more complaining about how nobody is doing anything. I think one thing that Educate Truth is beginning to teach me is how difficult it was for Jesus to change the minds of those in the conservative wing of his religious community. In case you have carefully read the Gospels lately, Jesus spent most of his time chastising the conservatives and comforting the liberals. I’m not saying Jesus wasn’t concerned about proper belief in doctrine, but it certainly was not His priority. Maybe it s about time to consider what Jesus might have to say to the people at Educate Truth. Are you listening? Are you praying?
I am, for all of you, and for myself. I also pray that the AAA visit to LSU will accomplish something positive!
OTNT_Believer(Quote)
View CommentOn a more positive note, check out the wonderful story on SDA education published in The Science Christian Monitor:
http://www.csmonitor.com/Commentary/Opinion/2010/1115/For-real-education-reform-take-a-cue-from-the-Adventists?sms_ss=facebook&at_xt=4ce2d249c50baa7f%2C0
Title: For real education reform, take a cue from the Adventists
Byline: Amid all the buzz on education reform, the Seventh Day Adventist school system might seem an unexpected place to look for models in improving student achievement. But by educating mind, body, and spirit, Adventist schools outperform the national average across all demographics.
Good work from the not-to-be-praised-university researchers!
Professor Kent(Quote)
View Comment@OTNT_Believer: I will admit I’m a bit cynical on this post, but I believe God understands me and forgives my cynicism.
I’ve been on enough school board meetings, student conduct committees, personnel selection committees to know that often God is ignored and our human weakness prevails so that someone’s cousin gets picked to fill a job they are not entirely qualified for, or a student gets out of trouble because his father is an alumnus who donates lots of money to the school, or blah blah blah. We all know what happens in the SDA church, nepotism, favortism, outright ignorance, if you have not seen it you’re not looking. Does God always intervene, or does he expect us to use the brain and backbone he gave us along with obedience and faith?
I believe Dr Andreasen is a fine man who will lead the committee to try to do the right thing, but we fight against spiritual weakness and wickedness in high places. The committee needs our fervent prayers!
D. Fender(Quote)
View CommentThis will be a time of testing to see whether principle will trump internal politics. Anyone who believes there is no such thing as internal politics in some church actions I have a large building I wish to sell!
I agree that we certainly need to pray that right wins out.
GMF(Quote)
View Comment@Professor Kent: Prof, the church has not moved away from the progressives, they have moved away from us! We are not trying to shove our historic bible-based doctrines on them, they are the ones that have brought strange fire into the camp and are trying get us to accept it as truth. Get your story straight.
D. Fender(Quote)
View Comment@Professor Kent: “Slander- malicious, false, and defamatory statement or report: a slander against his good name.”
Are you saying that the evidence that is posted by Shane and Sean is false and LSU is being falsely accused? Are you implying that first hand reports by students are made up? Are you saying that students that sign a petition and personally obtained degrees from LSU over a series of years and felt cheated that they were not taught what our church believes, but instead were taught information that is contrary to our biblical beliefs are wrong? I know some of these students personally and have heard the story. Do you not realize that religion professors at LSU openly support gay marriage in direct defiance to our church’s clearly stated belief that marriage is a union between one man and one woman?
You are such a fantastic progressive! Direct the attention away from the topic and rick solid evidence by using a buzz word like “slander” because your argument is ineffective and weak. Nice try but it doesn’t work.
D. Fender(Quote)
View CommentIf science and the Bible are in agreement, what is the problem? In this issue one is right and one is wrong. Either the Bible is true or the so called science (completely undemonstrated) is true. Is LSU a Seventh-day Adventist instituion or is it a case where the prperty is owned by the Seventh-day Adventist church only?
R. Flint(Quote)
View CommentYou folks continue to slander La Sierra by claiming it is hiding things and has failed to make any changes. Did you notice the subtitle of the article?
“Biology issues to be on docket, at school’s suggestion.”
H-e-l-l-o!!!
Professor Kent(Quote)
View CommentMs. Fender, I am certain of this: nothing will satisfy you of a “fix,” no matter what the outcome is. LSU cannot replace the faculty because no there are none available to take their place. LSU cannot sever ties with the Church because they both need each other. LSU could resolve the situation on its own, and indeed may have already, but there is nothing they can say or do to convince you of that. Nothing.
Professor Kent(Quote)
View CommentIf what you say is true…the guilt being added up is devasating…..
God will intervene on behalf of His young. They are standing for Him….He will stand for them.
Like the Covenant GOD made with Abram…..”And, I will bless those who bless you, And, the one who curses you, I will curse.”
Behold, the salvation of The Lord……this is the war in living color…..
Deborah
Deborah Risinger(Quote)
View Comment@Professor Kent: Who is that masked professor? Inquiring minds yearn to know. But seriously, Professor Kent, yours are the most arresting and evocative posts on this landscape, by far, giving it a certain inimitable texture. For better insight into your thoughts, more information about you would be very useful and appreciated, e.g., CV, bio, web sites, papers published, awards. As a reward for granting these data you may brand me malicious and defamatory, prn ad lib, 3x in the next 90 minutes. Thank you for your consideration.
wesley kime(Quote)
View Comment@ D. Fender:
You’ve certainly clarified the meaning of malicious and defamatory.
Professor Kent(Quote)
View CommentBob, did you consider the possibility that Prof Bradley has changed his pedagogical approach? Have you considered the possibility that he was ordered by administration to change his pedagogical approach? How have you ruled out these possibilities?
La Sierra has actually invited the proper SDA authority to examine its biology teaching. You appear offended that they have ignored your demands to answer directly to Educate Truth.
Professor Kent(Quote)
View CommentAmen, Johnny!
D. Fender(Quote)
View CommentIs it going to be an old boys network where one school overlooks the problems at the other school so they will do likewise when it is their turn? Our church is full of evil politics. I wouldn’t be surprised if they come away with an “all ok” conclusion. When will the problems be fixed?
D. Fender(Quote)
View CommentIf LSU has changed its POV about how biology courses are to be presented, then there would be a published apology to Louie Bishop and the entire SDA church at large. Where is it? They have boxed themselves into a convoluted corner. On one hand they claim they are creation supporting SDA’s who teach exactly like all other SDA universities. (Anyone walked the halls of SAU’s biology department recently and observed the creation-evidence displays?) On the other hand LSU’s own faculty senate resolution deifies academic freedom and WASC has confirmed that academic freedom, current societal/science norms, student body diversity, and AUTONOMY from the church are the defining pillars of LSU’s state-of-being. Will the real LSU stand up? …While we’re waiting…that’s the reason this web-site and all this hub-bub got started in the first place. Many of us (parents especially) don’t want to be fooled into paying for a secular quasi-religious education instead of a Seventh-day Adventist education.
Susie(Quote)
View Comment@Professor Kent:
“LSU has affirmed that it is Adventist, that it fully supports the SDA Church, and teaches its fundamental beliefs.”
Like McDonalds says it’s food is healthy, but it took legislation to make them publish their nutritional information. Yeah, right.
D. Fender(Quote)
View CommentI believe that we should be especially careful to guard against haveing a spirit of argumentativeness. Satan would like to reduce grand truths by making it seem like one man’s opinion against another’s.
Noble and grand truths cannot be controverted by those who wish to undermine them. The truth is it’s own best defense, we need not put out our own hand to protect it as Uzza did.
Not all the professionalism, scientific jargan or surmisings of mankind can change the fact that God made the world in 6 days, and is creater of heaven and earth.
[edit] Obvious, incontrovertable young earth evidence: Rate of erosion of all the world’s major waterfalls to where they are now shows they cannot have been in place more than a few thousand years. Depth of ocean sediments, the fact that we still have top soil on continents, rate of earths magnetic field decay, etc., etc, etc. Evolution is not “progressive” thinking, it is dark ages ignorance, a terrible pity that people in a modern age of enlightenment would still be willing to accept such ideas. How mankind needs a Savior from sin more than anything else- only when we are free from selfishness and love of sin will we be free to do unbiased, truly objective and scientific research!
Vicki Gillham(Quote)
View Comment@Professor Kent: When a child gets caught with his hand in the cookie jar and then goes around acting as if he did nothing in the first place, and won’t own up to what he did, I wonder what he his still hiding? Anyone else feel this way too?
SUPPOSE that LSU is on the right track regarding their biological origin curriculum, they need to be monitored for a while to ensure that things are still being done right. Let’s call it QA (Quality Assurance), every organization needs that. Then let’s move on to the next issue with them. It would be time to guide the religion department to the correct teaching on gay marriage, since they have been off on that and teaching our young people that homosexuality is ok and homosexual marriage should be acceptable to the church.
I don’t suppose for a moment think that LSU is on the straight and narrow, because they still act guilty. If they want to have the confidence of their constituency, then come clean and be transparent. The SDA church is their constituency, we pay the bills, we have a RIGHT to know what product we are getting. It they have nothing to hide, then transparency will fix all of their problems with Educate Truth!
D. Fender(Quote)
View Comment@Professor Kent:
The president of the Michigan conference and Prof Bradley in statements to to the press – have affirmed that LSU is nothing of the sort.
So now we have the “affirmations”.
Next comes to the evidence – looking at what they teach, observing what is said in class – listening to students.
Hint; NO LSU STUDENT has come to Educate Truth stating that they heard Prof Bradley promoting a literal 7 day creation week less than 10,000 years ago as something that actually happened in nature.
At what point is the objective unbiased reader suppose to turn a blind eye to the disconfirming evidence so as to believe a certain claim?
in Christ,
Bob
BobRyan(Quote)
View CommentI have done some prayerful reading of instruction from the Bible and from Ellen White about avoiding an argumentative spirit. In participating at this unGodly website, I have erred egregiously. I have sought to defend faith against the misuse of science and abuse of fellow believers, but I have not always done so in the right spirit.
If anyone should lose their belief because they see insufficient science to support their views, I’m afraid they have not taken a daily walk with Jesus. To know Him is to believe in Him. As it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.”
God bless you all.
Professor Kent(Quote)
View CommentAnd by prepressed – I mean repressed of course. 😉
It create endless opportunities to express a tinge of resentment here and there – passing it on to students and creating a generation of students with a very dim view of the Church
BobRyan(Quote)
View CommentWesley, I would like to meet you one day in heaven where we can embrace. In the meanwhile, I’m an academic who interacts daily with non-SDAs and non-believers at a non-denominational institution I am comfortable at. I treat these people with utmost respect, and I get the same in return. I get many opportunities to witness to these people, mostly because they know I am a devoted Christian who engages in serious science, and they are curious as to what I believe. I love to share, but only when asked or find an opportune moment. I’m told that I’m “different” as a Christian because I do not criticize or condemn others for their unbelief. I’m also seen as open-minded and generally supportive of others, but willing to defend those who are mistreated. Apparently, these qualities may be seen as flaws as an Adventist, but I am what I am, and I’m not walking away from the Church no matter how imperfect and unpurified it is.
I am disinclined to reveal my identify here for fear that colleagues and students who look me up will read all the horrific stuff at this website. I can assure you they would find Adventism to be disgusting and nauseating. I don’t want them to see this side of us. I love my God and love my Church and weep at the way Christians too often treat each other…and defend the harsh treatment as a “duty.”
So that’s why I am content to be known only as Professor Kent.
God bless you, Wesley.
Professor Kent(Quote)
View CommentWe can imagine such a thing I suppose.
But in Bradley’s “own words” to the press – the issue was not “pedagogy” – it was firmly held beliefs that science flatly contradicts our doctrines and that he was not going to sacrifice his beliefs in evolutionism “for doctrinal consistency”. In fact Bradley specifically goes after that point when he states that he laments the fact that he even has to claim to be a practicing Seventh-day Adventist to be tenured in our University.
By bending the whole issue around to “pedagogy” – (if they were to make such a wild error) they would be arguing that the convictions of the teacher should not “be seen” in their teaching – in cases where the teacher believes as firmly in evolutionism as Bradley claimed to believe.
#1. That is not practical.
#2. I doubt it is realistically possible.
The beliefs of a good teacher will always surface if they are presenting the subject with all of their heart and soul – the way a truly engaged, enthusiastic, creative teacher must.
If they had a biology department staffed by evolutionists yesterday and they simply muzzle them – then they end up with a biology department staffed by bitter prepressed evolutionists today. The fact that they tell them to stop brow-beating the creationist students as part of their pedagogy – may help to some extent, but the resentment and bitterness of being forced to stick with “science” instead of wandering off into “birds come from reptiles” storytelling, is not going to be easy when the text books themselves are going down that road at times.
It create endless opportunities to event a tinge of resentment here and there – passing it on to students and creating a generation students with a very dim view of the Church.
A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still. In the case you propose – it is not “convincing them” of anything regarding evolutionism. Your story suggests that they are not allowed to promote it the precise way they did before, as if a muzzled evolutionist is the same thing as a teacher who actually believes in and promotes SDA doctrines on origins. What parent would want to send their student into that field of land mines??
in Christ,
Bob
BobRyan(Quote)
View CommentAs Geanna once wrote, it is finished.
Professor Kent(Quote)
View CommentMay we always remember to keep the spirit of Christ’s redemptive love in all our dealings.
Though my viewpoints are different than things that have been said, I feel really touched by what Professor Kent has said in the last couple of posts, trying to seek some reconcilliation.
My experience is that so often we argue too strongly for our points, and our sinful impatience comes out instead of the truth. I myself have been a very strong defender of values and truths in so many situations, and I believe that is very much a duty for Christians, but sadly often found that I have not spoken carefully with a heart filled with love. We must be strong and stand for the truth, while at the same time doing all we can to keep the “law of kindness” on our tongue, and avoid speaking “like the thrusts of a sword,” as Sister White also says “avoid all sharpness,” avoid things which might spark someone to feel angry. Then we may find that in many cases we may be reconcilled to our brethren, while yet avoiding the opposite extreme of compromising the truth in any way, and while yet sharing openly and clearly about the truths and standing up for what is right.
May the Lord bless each one.
Vicki Gillham(Quote)
View CommentThe old message “do not do what is right or you will suffer or may be inconvenienced in some way” has been around since the garden of Eden.
In the mean time “actual science” does not show “birds coming from reptiles” and does not show complex genomes arising out of simpler ones. Which means that holding to what the Bible actually says on the doctrine on origins AND admitting to what science “actually shows” is not a problem.
The problem is the absurd notion of “believing in something that never happened in nature” (as even atheist evolutionists now admit about Othaniel Marsh’s fraudulently arranged horse fossil sequence) – while tossing the Bible out the window to do so.
As Kent points out – if you hold to points of fact, to actual truth in terms of “what really happened in nature” then just maybe you will not be incouraging the populist evolutionist to come and join you – and that in Kent’s mind appears to be “a bad thing”.
Oh well.
in Christ,
Bob
BobRyan(Quote)
View Comment@ Johnny Vance
No, I’m not saying that. You keep the departments open and work with the people you have, the majority of which are extremely supportive of the Church.
I’m totally behind the concept that SDA biologists must support and teach SDA beliefs with respect. However, I’m opposed to “exposing,” labeling as “theives,” and firing those who don’t teach Pitman’s personal interpretation that the “weight of evidence supports the Church’s position.” Pitman’s interpretation is one that the Church has never required–and never will–of its university professors. And the Church will never embrace his notion that evidence trumps faith. Never.
Professor Kent(Quote)
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