Michigan Conference accused of shunning LSU choir students

Reposting of an article recently published by ADvindicate:
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Charles Scriven, president of Kettering College and chair of the Adventist Forum board, recently accused the Michigan Conference of shunning a La Sierra University choir.

Tensions between the university and conference began in 2009 when a website published evidence the university was allowing the theory of evolution to be taught to the exclusion of creationism. A year later the Michigan Conference Executive Committee voted to remove LSU from its list of colleges and universities that qualify for employee subsidy.

A letter dated Aug. 29, 2011, was sent to La Sierra University President Randal Wisbey from the Michigan Conference Board of Education, requesting LSU no longer recruit on Michigan Conference campuses until LSU resolved its problem.

La Sierra’s request to sing was initially accepted by the academy principal, and according to La Sierra adjunct professor of music David Kendall, planned months in advance; however, it wasn’t until the principal contacted the office of education in March 2012 that the conference was aware the La Sierra Chamber Singers were coming, according to a phone call with Jay Gallimore.  While university choir tours are recognized as an important element in recruiting, Kendall said the trip was not intended as a recruiting tour. The Michigan Conference though considered the Chamber Singers’ performance as recruitment, and the principal declined their request to sing weeks before their performance. It is unknown why the principal waited weeks before the performance to notify the office of education.

President of Michigan Conference Jay Gallimore issued a statement Thursday to conference pastors and teachers, regarding Schriven’s allegations:

We have been getting questions recently concerning the Michigan Conference refusal to allow La Sierra, which teaches theistic evolution, to be allowed to recruit on our academy campuses. A letter dated August 29, 2011, was sent to Dr. Randy Wisbey, president of La Sierra University stating; “Our Board of Education has voted to ask that La Sierra not be present in recruiting on our campuses until the issues of creation and evolution have been resolved.” We recently declined their offer to have their choir sing at one of our academies in light of the above action, because we see that as part of recruitment.

The principal of one of our academies called our office of Education around the first of March 2012 and said that his school had been asked by a La Sierra Choir to sing on their campus. He at first said yes, as he would normally for any of our colleges. But he had second thoughts in light of the above action. Normally our office would not be asked about one of our colleges coming. But the principal’s discernment was right to see a link to the recruitment issue. Educational administrators know that music groups are important to any school’s recruitment.

In light of the vote by our Board of Education, we responded by saying we see it as part of their recruitment and we would not want them performing on our campuses. The Office of Education’s understanding of the matter was straight forward. La Sierra offered to come and we, through the principal, declined their offer to come.

The published premise by an independent magazine that that we are somehow “punishing” their students because we declined their offer speaks for itself. How did they, the promoters of faith destroying evolution suddenly become a “victim” of those who are trying to protect the faith of their children? Is a mother bird to be condemned for flapping her wings in the face of a threat to her nest? We do not want our youth being recruited in any way by any institution that continues to defy the nearly unanimous vote in 2010 of nearly 2300 delegates in General Conference Session. That vote directed that all Seventh-day Adventist schools of higher learning to teach and support Creation as given in Genesis. The action was very clear. La Sierra’s continued action of teaching and supporting theistic evolution is also very clear. We offer no apologies for endeavoring to protect the faith of our youth.

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58 thoughts on “Michigan Conference accused of shunning LSU choir students

  1. Good for Michigan Conference! It is really great that at least one conference is standing up for the truth. It’s sad that so many of our leaders are silent at this critical time in our history.




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  2. The decision to infuse the religion of blind-faith evolutionism into the program at LSU was a decision against science, against trust in the Bible, against the SDA denomination, against the constituents of LSU and against the students at LSU.

    The leadership at LSU has placed their school in a very bad spot.

    One wonders how long they wish to continue doing it.

    I am sure that Charles Schriven is just about to publish his own condemnation of evolutionism and will be urging LSU to stop that program — as soon as he gets a minute or two to compose the letter.

    in Christ,

    Bob




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  3. It takes courage to be a seemingly lone voice in this evolutionary event that continues to be unresolved at La Sierra. I thank you my Michigan Conference administration for your wise handling of this situation. May we follow your example in protecting Biblical truths in our schools and churches regardless of peer disdain.
    Blessings.
    Mike Messer




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  4. Ditto! I also say good for the Michigan Conference!! Its time for people to stand up against heresy and stop letting it come into the church without even so much as a head turn! We now have a conference that will take care of its people like they all should be doing. I praise the Lord for Jay Gllimore and for the courage that he has to stand up for Biblical truth!

    I am deeply concerned that this accusation came from Charles Schriven and Kettering. I was just there to get information about sending our daughter to the school. I was already concerned about the liberalness of the school, but this clinches it. How sad that our own children are not being protected by others. They should be warned, not exposed.




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  5. I, too, congratulate Michigan conference for their stand. The whole concept of the fall of humans and the need for Jesus for our salvation hinges on the Biblical creation story. It is central to our faith and MUST be upheld.




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  6. I want to add my voice of approval for the action the Michigan Conference has taken.

    Why didn’t Scriven include in his diatribe the statement by Gallimore explaining the why the group was disinvited?

    I have followed much of Scriven’s career and wonder how he retains his position since he is so often not in harmony with church doctrine and policies.




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  7. Praise God for a president like Jay Gallimore who believes the Bible is the inspired Word of God and has the convictions to uphold its teachings regardless of the liberal critics in the Adventist Educational System. If all the NAD Conference Presidents were like Jay Galimore, trusting in the Word of God instead of the word of man, we probably would not be stuck in a Laodicean state.

    Pastor, Gulf States Conference




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  8. Bravo to the Michigan Conference and Jay Gallimore for having the courage to stand for the truth. O that the rest of the administrators/conference workers would do the same. LSU caused this kaffufle in the first place by their rebellion against the church. If anyone should be exposed to condemnation it is them.

    Shame on Charles Scriven for criticizing the Michigan conference for their stand. God is not pleased by this, I am sure. It really constitutes rebellion against the church and its principles. I hope Pastor Scriven will reconsider where he stands on this issue. And I hope that Kettering will begin to hold up the standards they have been mandated to teach. I really am appalled at all the liberalness that has infiltrated our church. So sad.

    I am also sure that God will bless the Michigan conference for their loyalty to Him and His church and I hope they will continue to stand firm.




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  9. I appreciate what Michigan Conference is doing. It is good to see that some of the 7000 who have not bowed the knee to Baal are alive and well. The devil is at work in a mighty way to cause God’s last day church to have a lot of in-fighting. Can anyone spell “SHAKING”! We as members of the Remnant must “stand for the right though the heavens fall”. Just because we are the Laodician church doesn’t mean we have to act like it. We as individuals don’t have to be Laodician and need to get over the stigma. We either will have oil in our lamps or not. When I became a member of this church 40 years ago I didn’t think about the ramifications of that action. I just recently realized that I am one of those who are identified in Rev. 18:4. I was called “to come out of her my people”. Anyone who has come out of Babylonish thought and action to this church has fulfilled prophecy. Why would anyone want to go back?




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  10. I completely agree with what President Gallimore has done. And, I have sent him an email regarding my support. All SDA’s who support ET and President Gallimore should do this, as he will be getting plenty of negative feedback from the liberals and progressives.




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  11. this is just another example of the bible based,principled leadership pastor jay galimore has provided the michigan conference for many years.i pray the Lord will sustain him in his responsibilities until He returns.




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  12. GMF:
    I want to add my voice of approval for the action the Michigan Conference has taken.

    Why didn’t Scriven include in his diatribe the statement by Gallimore explaining the why the group was disinvited?

    I have followed much of Scriven’s career and wonder how he retains his position since he is so often not in harmony with church doctrine and policies.

    The reason Scriven survives is at least in part because of the “secular” position he has at Kettering Hospital, being the President of Kettering College of Medical Arts. KCMA is a very secular instituion, (as is Kettering Medical Center itself) having well over half of its students non-SDA.

    He is still a very prominent member of the liberal/progresive wing of the Church, however. Why isn’t he in a more “spiritual” position? Well, one reason is that SDA’s in Ohio are more “conservative” in their views, in general, and wouldn’t want him to be in a more prominent church-related position. He would fit in well out here in California, especially in Southern California, however.

    If La Sierra chose to get rid of Randall Wisbey, Chuck Scriven would be one they would certainly consider for a liberal/progressive replacement, to follow in the footsteps of Guy, Geraty, and Wisbey.




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    • @Holly Pham: Holly, many people do not know it, but the Ohio Conference is the polar opposite of the Michigan Conference, and not conservative. That may be counter-intuitive, but it is true. Ohio is actually more liberal than several of the California conferences. The president of the Ohio Conference has started an annual church growth event and has invited questionable presenters, some who dabble in things like spiritual formation. I’m not fully up to speed on the goings on there, but I’ve talked to conservative Adventists who are very unhappy with the leadership there.




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      • @David Read: See…We need to know all these things. The Creation issue is crucial, I agree. But Satan isn’t sticking to just one deception. We really need to have an information network that alerts us to some of these issues so we can pray and be awake and sensitive in our own individual churches. The LSU problem should stand as a warning. This creation problem went on for a long time before it was made public. I’m interested in being kept informed so we can fight error early on and stop it before it gets to such a destructive level. I appreciate your information regarding the Ohio Conference. What a time we’re living in.




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  13. Pastor Gallimore is following God as all other conference presidents should. So much error could be avoided if everyone called sin by it’s right name. It takes courage to stand for the right but we must for error will never be truth. Evolution is a pagan religion. It’s not a Christian belief but is, as our pastor called it, blasphemy against the most High. Those who uphold evolution are saying that God is not able to create in six days and thus place their opinion above God’s.

    Bill




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  14. Shari:
    I am deeply concerned that this accusation came from Charles Schriven and Kettering. I was just there to get information about sending our daughter to the school. I was already concerned about the liberalness of the school, but this clinches it. How sad that our own children are not being protected by others. They should be warned, not exposed.

    There are some great people at Kettering Hospital, also. Mindi Schwartz, a physician who gave the lesson study at ASI last August, seems like a good person. She is part of the residency program at Ketteing Hospital. (I met her personally while dining at an Indian buffet in Dayton.) So, don’t “rule out” Kettering Hospital or KCMA entirely.

    Dr. Wareham and Dr. Christman also practice near Kettering, and I’ve been told by friends who know them that they are also Bible-believing SDA’s.




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    • Yes, I am a physician in the Kettering area. I mostly practice at my office or at a surgery center owned half by physicians and half by Kettering Hospital. I am a conservative SDA, who strongly believes in the literal seven-day creation. Dr. Lyndi Schwartz and her husband Brian practice at Kettering and are conservative SDAs as well. I believe Dr. Steve Waterbrook is quite conservative, although I don’t know him as well. He is a surgeon at Kettering.

      I can’t vouch for what exactly happens at Kettering College. Many of the students are non-Adventist. Some of the professors are great. I have not heard of any evolution teaching there.

      I am very much in support of the concept of Creation and the literal seven-day consecutive creation story.

      Marshall Wareham




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  15. @Marshall Wareham, Thank you for your information and support. (Sorry I mispelled Dr. Schwartz name!)

    I also doubt whether “evolution as fact” is taught at KCMA.




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  16. This as background information on certain of our institutions and principals thereof, that have been mentioned recently on several of these threads.

    Before retiring and moving to Southern California, I was a pathologist at Kettering Medical Center for many years and attended the Kettering Church for thirty years, and a Sabbath School which, in later times, was headed by Dr. Scriven and others from LLU. The Kettering College of Medical Arts (KCMA), outstanding in it’s class, an excellent school, offers only practical or applied life science courses, such as radiology and pulmonary technology, training for Physician’s Assistants, and nursing, as does LLU, which also has schools of medicine (of which Dr. Bull was once dean) and dentistry.

    In contrast to our other universities and advanced schools, neither LLU nor KCMA have occasion to present the more basic or comparative biology courses that have come to involve philosophical and Darwinian issues, and thus have not attracted the attention LSU has. KMCA and LLU are for healing and patient care. But, as would be expected, considerable numbers of the faculty at both LLU and KCMA hold the same world views as those expressed more publicly at LSU. That Dr’s Guy (LSU) and Bull (LLU) co-authored “God, Sky & Land” in support of mainstream evolutionary views on origins, considered on another thread, is symbolic.

    KCMA recently built a multi-million dollar new building (donated by a very rich local stock investor), an award-winning structure, complete with elaborate murals in the lobby, one of which depicts “creation,” which, upon deliberation, was rendered in an “inoffensively nonsectarian” way.

    Ironically, across the street at Sabbath School – well, it’s a different “school.” Students are safer at KCMA than at some KMC Sabbath Schools.




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    • @Wesley Kime:More about the Kettering Medical Center (KMC), and the Kettering College of Medical Arts (KCMA), part of the KMC campus, as I knew it for over 30 years.

      KMC is owned and operated by the Adventist denomination, but unique among Adventist institutions in history and purpose. Named for Charles Kettering, an inventor and engineer in early automobile history and wealthy Dayton industrialist and philanthropist, the resources, property, and title were donated by the Kettering family to the denomination. Impressed with the Adventist hospitals of the era, the Kettering family, good Catholics, wanted advanced Adventist medicine, not necessarily the advancement of Adventist doctrine, though they were not adverse to it and facilitated our church across the street.

      Like Kettering Hospital, Kettering College of Medical Arts was set up by the Kettering Family as philanthropy for the good of the community. Thus KCMA has always had many nonAdventist as well as Adventist students, as inended by all parties. The school does teach religion, and so far the teachers have been Adventists, who have felt their obligation is not to be doctrinaire or evangelistic, which works out happily for all concerned.

      Dr. Scriven, current Provost of KCMA and current president of the Adventist Forum, has taught a Sabbath School class at the Kettering church called “Contemporary Issues,” started about two decades ago by Dr. Jim Londis, who was involved in the formation of the Forum (see Don’t Change Our Belief on Creation, the Words of Scripture Suffice, October 4, 2011). This class “discusses” (rather than teaches, as they like to say) the Spectrum gospel, the full green-gender-compassionate political, sociological, and hermeneutically advanced theological range of it, plus exposures of the sundry fallacies of the 1844 movement, not just theistic evolution. What I heard taught, er, discussed were mostly things like Rosa Parks and the ordination of women, not EG White or the Investigative Judgment, except with raised eyebrows. That was before the Tea Party came on the scene.

      But there are other Sabbath School classes there. Now living in Southern California, I check, as part of my Friday night devotions, the online Kettering Church Bulletin. I’ve noted a new class, “Adventist H.O.P.E.” started by new KMC in-training resident physicians from LLU, where such a class, connected with the new GYC movement, was started after 911. The class in “Contemporary Issues,” immensely popular for many years, is no longer listed.




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  17. This story should teach us a really important lesson. This is a huge waiting game. Progressives have been working hard for decades to infect our beloved church to bring it to the pitiful shape that we currently are in. Conservatives tend to pay attention to crisis situations and then when things calm down, they go back to living their lives and lose track of the cancer that is spreading in their church.

    Things on Educate Truth have slowed down a lot since it started. It has done a great work, but is losing some steam. It needs a reinvigoration and for the conservatives to dig in for the long term. LSU is going on as normal and sending their Chamber Singers around to show ignorant SDA’s that “all is well at LSU.” All is not well at LSU. All is quiet at LSU. The progressives are waiting for us to lose attention and then they will continue to spread their cancer.

    WAKE UP PEOPLE!! This is the shaking. Jesus is coming soon. Acquiescing or being silent in the face of a crisis like this is the same as being on the side of evil. It’s easy to read the Bible stories of great people and think that it was easy for them to be faithful, after all it was so clearcut in the Bible. I suspect that it was just as hard to actively choose to be on the side of right back then as it is now, that’s why it was showcased in the Bible.




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    • @Rev 14:12: I thought I was the last to know about the LSU scandal. Surely everybody knows by now, don’t they? At the very least the universities. My question, then, is: what spiritual chip is missing in the other conferences or universities that still allow LSU to recruit? I’m not convinced it’s because they’re ignorant. I’m more inclined to believe they lean liberal themselves or simply don’t care. I see how incredibly few in my own large church and our small K – 12 school are awake (or even have an interest to be) to where we are in God’s time. When I learned about this LSU issue over a year ago, I, in shocked disbelief, brought it up in Sabbath School and was amazed at the rather benign response by some: “Oh yeah….I heard about that 6 months ago….yeah.” One solid Adventist didn’t think we should be talking about it. But I was reeling that such a thing could happen in our universities and we ended up having special prayer for our students and parents and the direction of the church and schools.




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      • @BV:

        BV, these classic Bible texts that we all know describe it so well.

        “Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few. Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.” (Matthew 7:13-15 ESV)

        I fear for our people. Horrible times are right before us and the majority are unaware. So many are SDA in name only – cultural Adventists – who are very soon to fall away in the shaking that we are currently in.




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  18. There are “good” people at most of our educational institutions and we should be careful to remember that when addressing the issues that arise from time to time. That said, we should not be hesitant to reprove and even remove those who allow non biblical teaching to creep into our institutions. Not just shuffle them on to somewhere else to deal with the same problems, but kindly point out the error of their ways and terminate them. It appears at times that we are more afraid of man’s lawsuits than we are of God’s judgment! You and I will be held accountable for not doing our part to uphold His standards. My conference is doing their part in their circle of influence to address the La Sierra issue.
    I was happy to see the Schwartz name at Kettering cleared up. Brian was my classmate in academy and is a great guy. He and his wife are doing a great work.




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  19. Wesley Kime: Students are safer at KCMA than at some KMC Sabbath Schools.

    Which gets back to my point about our science departments not going rogue without first having the religion department clear the way for them to do so.

    We need more faithful accountability at the level of our religious instruction.

    in Christ,

    Bob




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  20. I wonder if Dr. Kime would consider defining what he means by “safer” in the sentence: “Students are safer at KCMA than at some KMC Sabbath Schools.




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    • @Ervin Taylor:

      My guess is that it has something to do with the fact that KCMA does not find itself having to insert evolutionism into normal everyday life due to the focus it has on applied science – but the KMC Sabbath School classes subject to the misguided leadership of Scriven are prone to promotion of blind-faith evolutionism every now and then.

      Of course Scriven could be almost ready to come up with a paper supporting the Bible and condemning neo-Darwinism – time will tell.

      in Christ,

      Bob




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  21. I am saddened by the responses from some here , cheering for something that was not Christlike at all . A group of students denied the opportunity of singing in one academy ? Michigan is the Adventist version of the right wing of the republican party . Such behavior is never what JEsus would do , My friends how sad that you applaud an action that would deny the opportunity to a group of young people to sing . There is no room for this in our church . Remember Samuel Pipim ? he started the war of us vs them , very divisive . Very disappointed by this conference and even though I am against theistic evolution , at the same time , the answer in love .




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    • @Ron:

      The LSU administration is to blame for placing their students and parents in such a difficult spot. They are using their own students as human shields – sending them out such that any attempt to limit the recruiting in favor of LSU is automatically placing their students at disadvantage.

      The idea that you can simply run a school into the ground, leading it down the path of a break-away institution — and then pretending that it must have no ill affects – is not a well thought through supposition.

      in Christ,

      Bob




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  22. Ron noted that the Michigan Conference “is the Adventist version of the rignt wing of the Republicanh Party.” Excellent point, except perhaps that mioght insult the right wing of the republican party. How about: “The Michigan Conference is the Adventist version of the Tea Party wing of the right wing of the Republican Party.”?




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    • @Ervin Taylor:

      You don’t have to be a member of any political party to recognize the importance and need for transparency from our church with regard to what our children are being taught in our own “Adventist” schools.

      If the church really does stand for something as “fundamental”, or as a primary goal or ideal, it should make that stand very clear and unambiguous… and should call its schools and teachers to task to actively support its primary goals and ideals (which has officially been done by the way). The church should also maintain only those paid representatives who actually represent what they are being paid to represent – as is the case for any viable organization.

      Of course, if a school is not or cannot support the church’s position on issues the church, as an organization, has advertised to be of primary importance, both the school and the church leadership have a moral obligation to inform the membership at large of this situation and work to correct it (as the Michigan Conference is trying to do in this particular case). After all, it is a moral wrong to give people one thing when they expect to have purchased something else entirely with their hard-earned dollars.

      In short, Tea-party members aren’t the only one’s who frown on false advertising… Neither Republicans nor Democrats, or even independents, appreciate getting sold something they didn’t intend to buy.

      Sean Pitman
      http://www.DetectingDesign.com




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  23. In the history of the British Reformation, no English clergyman was willing to take a biblical stand against Henry VIII desire to divorce and remarry (that would be like asking for your head to be cut off!) Thank God that Protestant voices out of Germany did not rubber-stamp that divorce (and the subsequent marriages and wife-killing). As a participant in the 2009 GYC, I heard the young people in one of the main public meetings (with 1000s of young people) asking hard questions of our GC leaders about the downward course of LSU, and not being satisfied with “let’s be kind” answers. Our young people in the NAD are looking for biblical truth to be proclaimed and upheld in our churches and in all of our institutions. May this stand by the MI conference send such a message to all young people in our division.




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  24. Has anyone tried to answer my question as to WHY we have General Conference votes if those that vote for the losing side simply can ignore the vote and do what they want anyway? Does anybody have an answer or even a guess?




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  25. Ron, the end will be an us vs them. Sheep and goats, wise and unwise, narrow road to life and wide road to destruction, etc. No more fence riding allowed. What you are experiencing is the shaking foretold by EGW.

    EGW describes those that come in and try to take out our pillar beliefs. That’s not the conservatives doing that. It’s the progressives that have tried to destroy our Bible based beliefs. It’s time to identify with a side, those that want to embrace science over the Bible and accept every societal sin as normal, or the time tested Biblical beliefs and Biblical morality that has been given to us from God Himself.




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  26. Pingback: Michigan Conference vs. LSU – Right Wing Politics or Truth in Advertising? | Educate Truth

  27. Ervin Taylor: “The Michigan Conference is the Adventist version of the Tea Party wing of the right wing of the Republican Party.”?

    You speak as though perched at the far left and viewing the entire denomination as being “right wing”.

    Given that you are someone that rejects Genesis in favor of blind-faith evolutionism, one wonders how your accusations of “right wing” could be taken seriously by anyone.

    All Bible believing Christians would appear to be “right wing” given your frame of reference.

    in Christ,

    Bob




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  28. BobRyan: You speak as though perched at the far left and viewing the entire denomination as being “right wing”.

    Given that you are someone that rejects Genesis in favor of blind-faith evolutionism, one wonders how your accusations of “right wing” could be taken seriously by anyone.

    All Bible believing Christians would appear to be “right wing” given your frame of reference.

    in Christ,

    Bob

    Exactly Bob. Dr. Taylor is on the “far left” of center of Adventism.




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  29. Mike Messer: It appears at times that we are more afraid of man’s lawsuits than we are of God’s judgment! You and I will be held accountable for not doing our part to uphold His standards.

    I do believe you have hit the nail squarely on the head, Mike. Thanks for that posting.




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  30. Ron: Michigan is the Adventist version of the right wing of the republican party .

    Why do you people insist on seeing the church as some political entity? It is not. It isGod’s church–based on a Theocracy. God calls the shots, not the general populace of the church.

    And why do you see standing up for the right as a sad thing to do? The Michigan conference and its leader will be judged by God for this, not you. And I have a sneaking suspicion God approves of their standing up for principle.

    As for the student’s feelings, it they are hurt it is wholely the fault of the school they represent–don’t try to blame the Michigan Conference. They had already made their stance abundantly clear. It was LSU that tried to sneak in and recruit students where they knew they were not wanted. That’s their problem.

    Ron when are you going to realize that we don’t put human beings before God? The Bible says that if we put even our closest family members before God we don’t deserve Him. It is all well and good to care about the students–whether you have noticed it or not, all of us here care about the students. If we did not, we would turn a blind eye to the fact that they are being led astray by the professors at LSU and let things go on as is instead of trying to correct the wrong being done to them. Your kind of caring isn’t helpful to them at all. It is indulgent to the sin that is being perpetuated there. That is not love. Love–real love–is trying to save them from sin. That is why Christ came to this earth–and that is why we are here on this site–to do whatever we can.




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  31. Faith: It isGod’s church–based on a Theocracy. God calls the shots, not the general populace of the church.

    I also do not agree with the political analogies. Spiritually I would be labeled liberal, yet politically I would be labeled conservative.

    Yet I find myself disagreeing with your comment also. For the highest authority under God amongst Adventists is found in the will of the body as eventually expressed at a GCS RH v.50,n 14,p 106.

    This is the same in NT organization as well as OT organization.

    I would have to ask for clarification as to which definition of Theocracy you intended also? The context seems to imply it, yet would leave that door open.




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  32. Why doesn’t the Advent Review write update articles warning fellow Adventists what going on at LSU.

    Even if nothing more than were keeping and eye on the situation and will keep the members updated.




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    • @Steve Mahan:

      That is the problem with a negotiated solution instead of a complete solution. Once some kind of agreement is reached – you have some length of time where you can no longer complain — waiting for a new set of egregious violation before you can do anything further.

      In exchange for reduced radical activity – you provide them with a cocoon of protection called “negotiated conditions”.

      in Christ,

      Bob




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  33. Faith Wrote: “It is all well and good to care about the students–whether you have noticed it or not, all of us here care about the students. If we did not, we would turn a blind eye to the fact that they are being led astray by the professors at LSU and let things go on as is instead of trying to correct the wrong being done to them. Your kind of caring isn’t helpful to them at all. It is indulgent to the sin that is being perpetuated there. That is not love. Love–real love–is trying to save them from sin. That is why Christ came to this earth–and that is why we are here on this site–to do whatever we can.”

    Faith, you are so right on target. It marvels me when the liberal/progressive criticizes the conservative for standing up for the students. They simply must no longer believe the Advent message but instead believe the other god, the one who contradicts the simple reading of God’s Word in Ex 20:11: “For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.”

    The liberal/progressive no longer believes in the creation account, Noah’s flood (it’s just a child’s bedtime story to them), they doubt prophecy and, of course, do not believe in the Spirit of Prophecy It is ok for devotional reading alone, it even that. Some don’t even want to hear it from the pulpit on Sabbath mornings. They even denounce Elder Wilson as taking us back into the ignorance of the 19th century. If we don’t go back to our roots we’d just as well forget who we are. If the liberal/progressive doesn’t change before Jesus returns, they will, along with the wicked, be crying for the rocks to fall on them too for they are not preparing for our Lord’s return.

    Bill




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  34. @ Bill Eichner, Well spoken! The denunciation of Ellen White is one of most prominent ideas of many progressive SDA’s.

    I’m actually surprised that some SDA Church hasn’t “substituted” Sunday for Sabbath yet. After all, we would probably get more support and “confirmation” from the other Protestant churches, wouldn’t we?

    Is that something that each Conference or SDA Church can decide for themselves?




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  35. Holly, the day ain’t over yet. We may see our beloved church do just that. We are told it APPEARS that the church is going to fall. We are also told that there is a time of trouble coming AS NEVER WAS. Read the following statement. I read it decades ago and wondered about it. Back then I could never have fathomed that God’s church would have come to where we are today. Since this kind of deterioration has happened, it’s not a very big step to throw out God’s Holy Seventh-day Sabbath and follow the first day of the week. The shaking is happening right now before us. I believe things are going to get much worse.

    “The Lord has a controversy with his professed people in these last days. In this controversy men in responsible positions will take a course directly opposite to that pursued by Nehemiah. They will not only ignore and despise the Sabbath themselves, but they will try to keep it from others by burying it beneath the rubbish of custom and tradition. In churches and in large gatherings in the open air, ministers will urge upon the people the necessity of keeping the first day of the week. There are calamities on sea and land: and these calamities will increase, one disaster following close upon another; and the little band of conscientious Sabbath-keepers will be pointed out as the ones who are bringing the wrath of God upon the world by their disregard of Sunday.” – {RH March 18, 1884 Par. 8}




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  36. @Rev. 14:12, Well, since Conferences can simply ignore General Conferences votes, as we have seen, why can’t they just ignore any “rule” “vote” “pillars of faith” or belief the SDA Church has?

    And get away with it, as they have already done. Does anyone have a logical answer?




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  37. Steve Mahan:
    Why doesn’t the Advent Review write update articles warning fellow Adventists what going on at LSU.

    Even if nothing more than were keeping and eye on the situation and will keep the members updated.

    This same question has been in my mind for many years. Our Church papers do a horrible job of keeping members aware of what is going on IN our SDA Church.

    Is this just not of any interest, priority, or value for them? I am thankful we have private members like Shane and Sean that have stepped up!




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    • @Holly Pham:

      Political correctness is an evil thing. It prevents people from calling sin by its right name. We need more Gallimores to stand up against the evil in the church. I pity the milk toast administrators who are supposed to be the watchmen on the wall, but are afraid to offend someone. If I were an administrator, I would be afraid that there was judgement coming for those that overlook sin and let innocent people be deceived because they did not do their job. These are not times for the faint of heart. God is calling us to faithfulness!




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  38. I have to say that I’m impressed to see Michigan Conference holding firm to their original position. Why any member of LSU was not apprised of the request and why there was so narrow an understanding of the request is beyond me.

    Michigan Conference – not Jay Gallimore – has taken the stand that this is not what they want for their young people. Whether or not you agree, the ugly comments posted against Gallimore are no more right than the personal and character attacks against the LSU leadership.

    It was most appropriate for the academy principal to refuse the visit and should have been done initially. Like it or not, regardles of what you may think of the individuals personally, when they accept positions in our schools it is their responsibility to uphold the standards and expectations of the conference which supports them.

    This is the one area that everyone seems to have forgotten. We are not a public school system. We are a school system that is run by a church that has specific doctrine and dogma. I have said it time and time again. These individuals sign a contract agreeing to uphold these doctrine and dogma and to instruct students in them. IF they are unwilling or unable to meet that contractual agreement, then they need to go work for someone other than the Seventh-day Adventist Church.

    I understand having questions and concerns about the doctrine of the church. However, as an educator and principal, it is my responsibility to teach my students what the church believes not what my human mind has problems with.

    Having been a member of the Michigan conference decades ago, I have never been prouder of the conference and Gallimore than in this situation.

    Something runs through my memory about “Men who will stand for right though the heavens fall.”




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    • @Rev 14:12: @Emk: We also seem to feel it’s “our” school. How many times have I heard it referred to this way. The school belongs to God and He is the chief Administrator. He has given us careful and explicit instructions on how He wants His schools run. We are to teach and operate His instituions to HIS standards not ours. The Old Testament, if studied, should teach us of the sad results of going independent of God. Our problems are still the same as the Israelites thousands of years ago. Hungering after the way of the world. Trying to blend with them while keeping a toe-hold on God. I’ve heard different ones muse over what the “big deal” is with idols, anyway. It wasn’t the idol worship per se that drew. It was the desire to be like the idolaters around them. The idols have changed today but the desires haven’t. Today, as then, it’s always the tender few who are willing to stand firm in the face of falsehood, anger and accusations.




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  39. BV, we are God’s people. He started the school for our benefit and is our leader. I mean that it is our school in the sense that God intended for us to nurture and care for it by following His plan.




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  40. BV: @Rev 14:12: @Emk: We also seem to feel it’s “our” school. How many times have I heard it referred to this way. The school belongs to God and He is the chief Administrator. He has given us careful and explicit instructions on how He wants His schools run. We are to teach and operate His instituions to HIS standards not ours. The Old Testament, if studied, should teach us of the sad results of going independent of God. Our problems are still the same as the Israelites thousands of years ago. Hungering after the way of the world. Trying to blend with them while keeping a toe-hold on God. I’ve heard different ones muse over what the “big deal” is with idols, anyway. It wasn’t the idol worship per se that drew. It was the desire to be like the idolaters around them. The idols have changed today but the desires haven’t. Today, as then, it’s always the tender few who are willing to stand firm in the face of falsehood, anger and accusations.

    I also agree that La Sierra belongs ultimately to God. However, how do we explain the constant and progressive deterioration of our SDA Bible-based standards there, over the past 21 years? And, without any correction or seemingly any concern by the administration, Board, or the Pacific Union Conference.




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