Comment on Dr. Ervin Taylor: ‘A truly heroic crusade’ by Wesley Kime.
Dear Brother professor: Thanks so much! You are so considerate. But I rather knew where Dr. Pitman stood, and what he means by Genesis I being literal, and what he needs for validation. And I understand fully your objection to it. What I wasnâ€™t clear on is your vocabulary: I still do not understand how — oh Iâ€™m so apologetic, even embarrassed — how you say Genesis 1 is both metaphysical and literal, as you have, as I understood it, in separate posts.
Iâ€™m asking that question under the assumption, perhaps incompletely informed, that â€œmetaphysicalâ€ and â€œliteralâ€ arenâ€™t the same; it would have to be one or the other. But maybe you mean that Genesis 1 has a double or layered meaning: it is literal, but also, simultaneously, has an additional lesson, a metaphysical significance. Would I say “parabolic”? If so, very good! Very good!
And thus I also assume that the way you use â€œmetaphysicalâ€ as applied to Genesis 1 is not at all the same as our LSC scholars, notably Dr. taylor, use the word â€œallegoric.â€ I apologize again, and again, for belaboring vocabulary instead of other issues.
Wesley Kime Also Commented
â€œGratefully under the tentâ€? No, GRACIOUSLY under the tent, Ken, popcorn and all. Ummâ€”good! May I have some more?
The big tent Iâ€™m talking about, of course, is this here roomy tent, this site, under our needfully single-minded but preternaturally tolerant ringmasters.
The SDA tent itself has always been really big, especially our evangelical â€œEffortâ€ tents, complete with sawdust floors. I remember when I was 10 years old, and a huge tent, a real tent, sawdust and all (maybe popcorn too; I think I remember the smell), biggest one Iâ€™d ever seen, came to our town. North Hollywood, of all places. Pitched right across from the Public Library for a whole year, always with a full house eager to hear about Daniel 2, it was that big tent I was baptized in, me and maybe 50 others, further swelling the tent.
That big tent was 70 years ago. But now our tent isnâ€™t big enough. Kleig lights in banks canâ€™t be hung from tent poles. Not enough room for the clowns and the juggling, tumbling, dancing acts, special effects and extreme makeover crews, and Daniel 2 too. Daniel will have to go. Watch out! The seams are splitting â€“ cra-a-a-a-k!
Dr. Ervin Taylor: ‘A truly heroic crusade’
Personally, and for the moment, I like this thread best â€“ heroic crusaders and crusades, awarded and wannabes. So I shall indulge (pending editorial indulgence) an essay.
This thread is not just a thread but a fabric, not always of the most skillfully extruded acrylic, sometimes twisted, but all the more priceless the garment: see-through and teasing like a peignoir, yet heavy, scratchy wool suitable for field uniforms in a civil war (such as we are in â€“ duck! Whereâ€™s the closest bomb shelter!), yet satiny and elegant enough for academic robes.
Personally, and to offer my unsought but master-class critique, I think any blog, regardless of itâ€™s domain, whether secular or religious, is successful to the degree that it tolerates jaw-droppingly divergent and even hostile opinions. Thus, this one is a howling success. It must be a texture of styles from heavy-handed to delicate, from in-your-face to nuanced, from charming to grungy edgy; evocative of reasoned unrushed responses and provocative of the blurted usually regretted kind — xo@X!-you-called-me-a-lier-let-me-at-my-keyboard-whack!-let-him-have-it! And of moods, from serious to light, from dread of the cosmic to flipping it off, to shrinking from it; and protocols, from obsession with fact and detail to untethered metaphor and bravura brush strokes; from the deadly prosaic to the dreamily poetic. A tent big enough for all.
But hopefully not over-crowded with allegory. Our church is overdosed on that stuff right now, choking on it. If once we were overdosed on proof texts, now weâ€™re overdosed, almost fatally, on allegory. If my generation was too legalistic, this new one is too liberated.
I further venture â€“ â€œI submit,â€ as we say in committee â€“ that the two awarded and archetypal heroes herein, Dr.s Pitman and Taylor, are especially and exceptionally intelligent and educated and well-read; both give a plethora of discursive detail, equally relevant, equally authoritative, equally credible, being mostly from the same sources. I donâ€™t see Irked Erv offering the better. In accordance with his allegorical take on issues, it may be said that Ervâ€™s presentations are not a flood of Noachian proportions flooding the debating floor, but patchy, not global, cloudbursts, heavy to be sure, but survivable. As to style â€“ maybe what fascinates me most, and where I lose credibility â€“ while both are even-toned and certifiably formal, both bang the table, but somehow Evo Erv reminds me of Khrushchev and his shoe. Erv, the old pro at it, seems just slightly more rattled. And I add, as my amen but not as benediction against feedback — rightly so.
Popcorn, anyone? Ken and I will share with you. His is buttered, mine salted.
Ken, Youâ€™ll rescue us yet, if youâ€™re the Moderator of our latest Big Genesis 1 Debate. So now my own Quixotic-Heroic Crusade is to promote your candidacy. Listen, everybody: Kenâ€™s just the right man for it, the most qualified.
Once the very idea of Adventists debating Adventists over Genesis 1 simply would not have occurred to anybody. Now itâ€™s impossible for even Adventists not to debate Genesis 1, again, (plus why we are even debating it), for as a class our most educated, self-styled â€œthought leadersâ€ [sic] (as opposed to church leaders, hopefully) doubt Genesis 1. Basically, generically; historically from pre-antiquity on; by etymological, technical, academic, by any definition, to doubt is to agnosticize. If we now have theistic evolutionists, we have theistic agnostics. Iâ€™ll call them vegetarian agnostics. So who better to moderate than a professional, full, real, unbiased, not-on-our-payroll agnostic?
But seriously, Ken, Iâ€™m taking up your time with whimsy when you could be talking to Inge. What a lovely exchange youâ€™re having, your freest, most useful, serious one yet, I think. Iâ€™m following it eagerly, right now to see how you respond to Ingeâ€™s referring to you as a postmodernist. But isnâ€™t Postmodernism the best domain name yet, in the whole WWW of agnosticism? Seriously.
Here, my friend, have some popcorn.
Recent Comments by Wesley Kime
Dr. Walter Veith and the anti-vaccine arguments of Dr. Geert Vanden Bossche
Informative and stimulating, but proceeding into more confusion. A veteran of Moderna vaccinations, I trust, hope, they are effective, at least until otherwise. The whole business, being part of End Times, is in the hands of God, not humans expert and as degreed as they may be.
Brilliant and Beautiful, but Wrong
Brilliant, beautiful, and so right! Speaking of your presentation at LLU recently. Great to see you and your family (especially my namesake, Wes. God bless! WK
Evolution from Space?
Hats off yet again to Sean for pursuing this topic as a scientist should, no nonsense, and in it’s proper setting — as a revival of one of the ancient ideas recently upgraded as a desperate alternative to the increasingly compelling intelligent design data. I had occasion to review panspermia a few years ago and as is my wont I found it more amusing than scientific. If you would like what was intended to be a satirical response to panspermia and other related curiosities you could check out: http://www.iessaythere.com/black-hole-humor.html
Meantime, Sean’s article is of far more cogent worth.
The Sabbath and the Covenants (Old vs. New)
As he has done on this site many times, Sean in his line-by-line-item response to C. White (not EG or EB) has, to my mind, clearly enunciated the issue and resolution.
When all the hermeneutics, quoting, and arguing and inordinately judgmental riposte are over, it comes down, as I understand it, to two things: 1) Whether the 7th day Sabbath (whether enunciated in the famous 10 commandments or otherwise) is still valid, and 2) Does the grace obtained by the vicarious sacrifice by the shedding of Christ’s blood or other divine process too deep for us to understand in this life, cover every sin automatically and without ado, altogether passively on our part, or is it only on condition that we first totally and deeply accept it? Other details always hassled forever are distractions.
I accept that I must accept it, wholly, actively, even with agony, with my whole being.