Comment on If the Creation Account Isn’t True… by Faith.
Perhaps, Jon, we are just dealing with semantics here. We both believe that God has given us the power of choice. But to assign doubt to God’s part is going too far, in my opinion.
Doubt is unbelief. If we doubt God we do not believe in Him. If we do not believe in Him we cannot accept His salvation. Doubt is what Satan insinuated in the angel population in Heaven, which cost a third of the angels their eternal lives. Any way you look at it, when it is directed against God, doubt is a bad thing.
I don’t see doubt as a God-given gift. As I said before doubt is not a good thing, and God is the giver of every good and perfect gift. Why would He plant doubt into our hearts? He knows the results of that–discord and eventually war–which brought about the expulsion of Satan and his following band of angels.
It doesn’t make sense that God would put that negative trait into our lives; nothing good could come of it. I imagine He knew that Satan would provide the doubt. Certainly God doesn’t remove all doubt from our minds,(that is what Ellen said, btw; she said He didn’t remove doubt–she doesn’t say it originates with Him) He just made us capable of choosing between right or wrong.
You said: “If the possibility of doubt were removed, we would be robots whose one job is to obey what the master controller says. Kinda like an inanimate object.”
To an extent you are correct; yet, think: what will it be like when God comes to take His children home to heaven? Will there be any doubt in existance in any of our minds? I don’t think so. And I don’t think we will be like robots either. We will have made our choice and have no more doubts. That doesn’t mean we will not be free agents, but we will just know better.
So you see, Jon, while I can’t agree with your idea that God gave us doubt, I do agree that we all have the power of choice.
And, personally, I would be glad if this whole controversy was over and there was no need of this website or any other because then we would have made our decisions and be of one accord. I look forward to that day.
Faith Also Commented
David Read: Bill, it speaks poorly of us that the unconverted feel comfortable among us, and feel no need to leave the church. What kind of Christian am I, that unbelievers in my fellowship have no plans ever to believe? That the unconverted feel comfortable in my church, calling me one of them? It is not a worse commentary on me than on them?
I don’t think I would take the most of the blame on this theory. I know what you are saying is true to a point…if we were living in complete compliance with the truth, it would be a lot less comfortable for the heretics to remain in our church. However, there are also many other factors involved.
The music in my church is appalling, yet the minister seems to think this is the way to go. My sister and a friend and I all went before the church board to protest the type of music being performed (and I do mean performed) in our church. The pastor promised he would get back to us on it–yet over a year has passed without any feedback–nor change. Is this my fault? Nope, I have done what I can to rectify the situation. But I don’t have the power to clean up the problem; therefore, I don’t take the blame for it, either. That is only one example of what is going on in the churches today.
Dress standards are falling right, left, and center, while the skirt hems are going up, the necklines are plunging, the make up is thicker, more heads are turning color, and the jewellery is more prominent. Some of this may be just a bump in the road while growing up; but some of it is permanent and some of the young ones don’t recover, but leave the church altogether.
When I was younger, I went through the jewellery thing (my family were jewellers for generations back–not sure if that is a gene thing or not). I was convinced by someone that jewellery was not bad on a modest scale. I never pierced my ears or anything, I can’t remember wearing earrings for more than a couple of times, but my conscience won out sooner or later. I was given a lecture by the pastor at the time, which would have probably borne more weight if the head elder’s daughters had been treated the same way I was at the same time.
There needs to be a spiritual reformation in our churches. That is obvious. However, that is also what Satan is using to infiltrate our churches with Spiritual Formation, which is evil.
I have to finish this off abruptly, sorry, I have to go to work.
Bill Sorensen: We have a good spiritual time, and many tell me when they are getting out, they will keep the bible Sabbath
God Bless you and your ministry, Bill.
If the Creation Account Isn’t True…
A little girl goes to a school run by a fundamentalist church. The teacher is a fundamentalist and endorses Young Life Creationism and challenges the class by asking who believes in Young Life Creationism. The whole class raises their hand to please the teacher and this one little girl does not.
So, the teacher asks her why. “I believe the overwhelming weight of scientific evidence,” she says. “And who taught you to believe in the scientific evidence?” the teacher asks.
“My parents are scientists and they taught me.”
So, the teacher asked, “If your parents were morons, what would that make you?”
“I’d be a Young Life Creationist Fundamentalist.”
All you did by this is prove that you see black as white and white as black. You just proved to all and sundry that you know how to twist and turn truth into lies. What an accomplishment! (she said, her lips dripping with sarcasm.)
Recent Comments by Faith
Changing the Wording of Adventist Fundamental Belief #6 on Creation
And you are correct, Sean, PK must consider where his influence is going–for God or against Him.
After reading your comment above, I must say PK isn’t the only one in that boat.I would make some comment as to how I really feel about you, but I know Sean will only delete it and you won’t benefit from my insight anyway–seeing as Sean is more concerned about other people’s feelings than you seem to be.
How you have the nerve to come to this website and call us all a bunch of morons (which is really what you are doing) is beyond me. You and your cronies are the ones drowning in error. Anyone who dares to accept man’s opinions over the Bible or SOP isn’t to be trusted to define truth for anyone.
Too straight-forward in my comment? Trust me, I have restrained myself admirably. If you only knew….
Southern Adventist University opens Origins Exhibit
Further to my comment on skeptism and our professors, I’ve got to tell you that I found Prof Kent to be extremely annoying in his comments on EGW. He seems to think that she is an embarrassment to the church when she speaks on Science.
Personally I find people who dis her to be the embarrassment to the church. I really don’t see how they dare to contradict and mock God’s prophet. By doing this they undermine a lot of our church’s beliefs to outsiders as well as church members. God will hold them accountable for that.
Furthermore, David’s unpublished manuscript plus other books I have read on archaeology have reported skeletons of the type that EGW mentions. Also found were artifacts such as huge iron bedsteads made for and buried with kings of huge stature.
Just because you haven’t done your research, PK, don’t jump to the conclusion the evidence isn’t there. It’s there, all right, and you make yourself look a little foolish for not knowing about it.
Southern Adventist University opens Origins Exhibit
David Read said:
“Ellen White’s statements about larger antediluvian life forms are well attested with regard to many different types of flora and fauna. They’re not even controversial…
As you know, I took advantage of your kind offer and I read your manuscript as well as I purchased 3 of your books, one for me, one for my sisters, and one for the church library. It took me a week to finish the book, and I and my sisters are very impressed with it. My one sister calls it “one incredible book”. It has answered a lot of the questions we had on the subject of evolution vs creation science, and, yes, I believe we (you and I and my sisters) are on the same page in our beliefs. We have immensely enjoyed discussing the various aspects of the subject as we read. It makes perfect sense to us.
I still have a couple of questions–new ones will probably always keep popping up–but I would say you have covered the subject admirably. Thanks so much for this book.
I agree with Elder Wilson, this is something every Adventist should read. In my opinion it should be used as required reading for science courses. It is exactly the way I would want science courses in the universities to treat the Creation/evolution debate in the classroom. And if the professors at LSU and the other SDA institutions would do this we wouldn’t be constantly losing our young people and, for that matter, our professors, to skeptisism.
Thank God someone has the courage to publish the truth and expose error.
God Bless you, David.
Southern Adventist University opens Origins Exhibit
Hi Sean and Bill,
I am wondering if the difference of opinion here is due to varying definitions of the word ‘science’. As we all know there is true science and there is worldly psuedo-science.
If Bill’s understanding of ‘science’ in this case is actually worldly psuedo-science, then he is correct in not wanting any truth to be compromised with it.
From Sean’s post, I believe he is referring to true science, which is definitely part of our beliefs on origins and is well supported by the Bible and SOP, as Sean admirably demonstrated.
Not having seen the exhibit myself, I cannot comment on whether or not they are mixing psuedo-science into it. (Perhaps a few of you posters out there can see the exhibit and report back to us.) Knowing the general philosophy of SAU, I would be surprised if they did.
Their goal is “to provide scientific evidence that substantiates the Bible’s account of creation.” Sounds good to me.
They also say: “Religion and science don’t need to be at odds.” And that is true when you are referring to true science, which I believe they are.
However, I do understand Bill’s reaction in that these days when people use the word ‘science’ without qualification it so often means evolutionary pseudoscience, that we tend to be suspicious.
I think, Bill, that in this case we don’t need to worry. I believe SAU’s heart is in the right place and I am so glad that at least one of our institutions is willing to stand up and be counted on the side of Creation, even though they will probably draw much criticism from the ‘scientific’ community as well as from the TEs in their own church.
God bless them for their fidelity to Him. And may God strengthen them to meet the onslaught that is most likely to follow, is my prayer for them.