Comment on LSU Board news release and actions by Ron.
Quoting Shannon: “Let’s all be a little honest. People act like the only way a student ever can learn about evolution is in the classroom from an evolutionist teacher. If these requirements are not met, then you have not learned about this branch of scientific belief (?) adequately. I think that these suppositions are not necessarily true. Couldn’t students actually learn many other ways? Are non-believers able to teach a subject well–I think so. Also, there have been statements as far as to imply that you cannot learn science unless you understand origins–simply not true. It is like saying you cannot understand Physics if you cannot master Chemistry–yes they overlap but they are not prerequisite”
Response: Well yes, a lack of honesty is part of the problem isn’t it. Most of the supporters of this web site are not being honest. They are being willfully ignorant of basic Biology. To use your example of the preacher in your house, it would be a little bit like the jailer asking the Apostle Paul “How can I be saved” and then forbidding Paul to talk about God. The concept of God is fundamental to the concept of salvation. You can’t talk about salvation without talking about God. In the same way, evolution is a fundamental principle of biology. All of the systems of genetics and cell biology are simply descriptions of the mechanics of how organisms evolve. It is impossible to function as a Biologist, or even as a physician without a basic understanding of genetics and cell physiology.
Even if you were to try to explain biology without evolution, it would be kind of like teaching someone how to build an airplane without teaching them about aerodynamics. Eventually your student is going to figure out that it is possible to fly. Why? Because the whole purpose of the airplane is to fly. The minute you ask, “What is the purpose of this machine, why is it designed this way?†the answer becomes obvious. The purpose of this machine is to fly. How much credibility will your denials that that it is possible to fly have when your student gets into the plane and flies away?
The same way with Biology. If you try to teach basic genetics and cellular biology, eventually the student is going to ask “Why is the process designed this way?” Then as soon as you ask the question, it is obvious, the reason is for the purpose of evolving. So it really is not possible to teach Biology without teaching evolution.
If Nature is God’s second book, and God really truly is the creator, then the real problem in Adventism isn’t in the Biology department, it is the Theology department. The burden is on the Theology department to reconcile Adventist theology to the simple facts of nature as created by God.
Table of Contents
Recent Comments by Ron
LSU responds to Michigan Conference
@Sean Pitman:
Sean,
1. If you are really worried about it, send your son to another school.
2. Would you have us give up the right to be seekers for truth and our dependence on the word of God in favor of orthodoxy and a man made creed?
3. For Freedom, Christ has set you free. Part if that freedom is academic freedom, to explore ideas to see where they lead, even if in the end they turn out to be wrong.
4. Part of that freedom is to have honest doubts and to be able live with them knowing that God loves us so much, that he gave up his son so that we would have to privilege of knowing right from wrong. To not respect the right of people to be wrong is to disrespect Christ’s sacrifice and to be a false wittness to the character of God.
LSU responds to Michigan Conference
Dr. Wisbey,
Hang in there, there are still a lot of us who support La Sierra. Now is the time to stand for the truth though the heavens fall. Now is the time to stand up for freedom of conscience within the Adventist church.
Many of us have not forgotten the horrible price paid, in the struggle against authoritaianism and tyranny, by those who first taught us Righteousness by Faith. I am sorry this attack is coming on your watch. I would not want to be in your shoes for anything, but I am praying for you and I am happy to send money to help replace any funds lost through lack of support from the church. When will Christian’s learn to one thing Christ came to teach, God’s love and mercy?
Dr. Geraty clarifies his “Challenge” to literal 6-day creationism
I think this quote from Ellen White makes it clear that all things were created in 6 days that humans can observe or see:
See, this is where the 6th fundamental belief goes wrong. It doesn’t stick with the Bible, but imposes on the Bible an interpretation that comes from Mrs. White.
We need to do away with ALL the “fundamental beliefs”, and go back to the Bible. The minute the Adventist church abandoned the Bible as the only rule of faith, we ran afoul of the curse in Revelation against adding to God’s word.
The hinge of our faith
PS.
13. You can’t believe in “The Bible and the Bible only”, then quote Mrs. White or any other source.
The hinge of our faith
Bob,
We are getting sidetraked, and there is too much here to respond to every point. Let me try to summarize a few points.
1. From my perspective the real issue is, “What role does coersion play in helping or hindering the discovery of truth.” In my opinion, exploring the issue freely, even looking at and issue from the perspective of an “infadel” can only enhance the cause of truth. Truth is Truth and can never be compromised by our belief or lack of belief. Coersion of belief or consciousness is morally wrong, especially in the Adventist church which is founded on Christ, the Present Truth.
2. Everything following is practically irrelevant.
3. My definition of evolution: Any change in the genome that is beneficial to the organism is evolution. There is no functional difference between micro and macro evolution, it is only a matter of the quantinty of changes. The nylonase gene came into being in the last 75 years, I believe that God the eternal creator created it and I see it as an example of evolution, you seem to believe that God stopped creating and that it isn’t an example of evolution. I believe that God created nylonase, you believe he didn’t. Which of us believes in God as the Creator? I don’t think it is truely possible to believe in God as the creator and not believe in evolution.
4. I have no problem with anything you have quoted from Mrs. White. In my opinion you are reading more into her statements than she intended.
5. I will reiterate, your favorite quote speaks of geology and long periods of time. It says nothing about evolution.
6. If you read the story carefully, both the Bible and Mrs. White imply a rapid form of evolution.
7. By my reading of Mrs White, she believed that the Bible and Nature are both from the hand of God and cannot be in conflict, so any discrepancy we see means that we just don’t understand. I don’t accept the assertion that our understanding of the Bible is more reliable than our understanding of science. I acknowlege that Mrs. White makes statements that seem pro-Bible/antiiscience, but as I quoted previously, she also states explicitly that our schools are to teach science to correct our errors in theology. She could have said it the other way around, but she didn’t.
8. Shannon, I can’t comment on pollens, that is out of my area of expertise, and it really doesn’t pertain to the issue of freedom of thought.
9. Here is your “Bird-dinosaur”
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/09/090928205415.htm
10. The very fact that the issue generates so much controversy proves in my mind that there is enough doubt about the truth that we, especially as Adventists should be tolerant of those on the other side. We certanly shouldn’t be firing or threatening anyone.
11. Coersion is the fundamental principle of Babylon, from Cain,Able and the tower of Babel, to the three worthies in the fiery furnace in Babylon, to Pagan Rome and the persecution of Chritians, to Papal Rome and the persecution of the Martyrs, to appostate protestantism and the Salem witch trials, to Islam and 9/11, to contemporary Adventism firing Biology teachers. Remember, Christ did NOT come to save the Righteous (those who by faith think that they are right). He ONLY came to save Sinners (those who think they don’t understand).
12. “The Bible and the Bible only” as the only source for truth sounds nice, but has no foundation in reality.
