Comment on LSU Board news release and actions by Sean Pitman M.D..
@Bravus:
I have not as yet said anything about the broader issue of whether it is appropriate to require adherence to a particular perspective in university courses (I don’t believe it is, and I agree with Carl above that everyone’s first responsibility is to the truth – to not bearing false witness).
I’m glad I misunderstood you (you should have specifically referenced the comment you were talking about if you wished to avoid confusion), but am still confused about your statement that you don’t think any teacher should be held to any particular standard in the university setting – even if Church owned and operated.
Even public universities have standards as a basis for consideration for employment. For example, do you think any young-life creationist would get hired by a public university to present his/her sincere and honest understanding that the modern evolutionary synthesis view of origins is clearly mistaken? – that life on this planet is indeed of recent origin? – and the fossil record/geologic column is actually a record of magnificent shortly-spaced catastrophes?
You can bet your life that this would never happen at a public university today. Public universities would never hire someone, as a science professor, who isn’t very close to the scientific mainstream in his/her beliefs – even if he/she were otherwise very honest and sincere. But why not? Isn’t honesty and sincerity of belief enough for university employment? Of course not. Not even for public universities. Honesty is necessary for employment, but honesty, by itself, isn’t enough. Viable organizations also require the assent of paid representatives to honestly and sincerely promote certain basic ideals of the organization. If one’s honesty will not allow such assent, then how is it honest to take a paycheck from that organization? – while going about doing the opposite of what you know you were hired to do? How is this not stealing? – a robbery of the employers time and money?
In short, there simply would be no point in having a SDA Church school or educational system of any kind if that school was not fundamentally reflective of SDA ideals on all fundamental aspects of SDAism (and especially those dealing with the very name “SDA”). Short of this, SDAs might as well put their money into something else and send their kids to public schools and universities.
Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com
Sean Pitman M.D. Also Commented
LSU Board news release and actions
Carl: We seem to be arguing about two different things. I realize that the issue at LSU has been painted almost entirely as question about teaching evolution, but I am not talking directly about evolution.
What I am talking about is using a literal historical interpretation of Genesis to claim that life was created roughly as it now exists not more than about ten thousand years ago. That interpretation of Genesis leads to so many contradictions of the evidence that it leaves one no better off than believing that God does whatever He pleases whenever He pleases and then provides evidence to make everything look very old. It forces you to believe that there is no rational way to understand the earth and its life.
For many years, Adventists have been avoiding a clear examination of the evidence. For example, where in the Adventist system would a student go to get a BS in geology? There isn’t one simply because we haven’t had the courage to face the facts that exist all around us. The result is that most Adventists can’t have an informed discussion of the earth sciences because we have been biased to believe that the Devil, in the form of “infidel scientists,†is waiting to deceive us. Our fear of being deceived has sometimes left us behaving like a superstitious cult.
To me, the tragedy of Adventism is that we can’t have a rational discussion of the problem because it isn’t safe to do so. As soon as anyone challenges our traditional beliefs, a cry goes up to get them dismissed. That’s the purpose of this Website, and, as long as it’s effective, we will stay locked in our established traditions no matter how irrational our position becomes. By doing so we become completely irrelevant to the educated world, nothing more than another tourist attraction in the history of religions.
You can get a BS in geology at SAU. Arthur Chadwick is there and does a lot of good field research in geology – and is a fundamentalist SDA (in that he actually believes that life on Earth is young).
There is in fact a lot of evidence in support of the author of Genesis and his intent to write a literal narriative about real historical events. However, if you don’t recognize this evidence, why not simply leave the SDA Church and join another organization that is more in line with what you think is so obvious? Why try to be something you’re obviously not?
Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com
LSU Board news release and actions
@Erik:
Then do you also agree with Dr. Lawrence McCloskey that the earth must necessarily be at least 12,000 years old? You see, the sea corals are his specialty, and they add a layer each year, dating back 12,000 years. They have done core drillings on the corals to determine this. If God did not create a mature coral colony, what did God create? or do you agree with Dr. McCloskey that life on earth must be at least 12,000 years old?
I don’t agree with McCloskey’s assumption regarding the age of living coral reefs – to include his notion that corals can only add one growth layer each year. This notion simply isn’t true.
Beyond this, living coral reefs did not survive the flood. Corals reefs are very delicate and would not have survived the world-wide flood intact. While fossil corals do also exist, the fossil “reefs” that supposedly took hundreds of thousands of years to form, really aren’t reefs at all…
For further information on this topic see:
http://www.detectingdesign.com/DesmondFord.html#coral
Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com
LSU Board news release and actions
@Erik:
Was God “deceptive†because He created a full-grown Adam and Eve, who had the appearance of age, while not being more than a day old? Should God have created just a sperm and an egg for each of them instead, in order to avoid charges of being “deceptive?â€
Hi Erik. I have to agree with Carl here that you can take this argument too far. It can basically be used to argue that anything that clearly appears to be one way could actually be completely different “because God made it that way”. That basically removes any logical basis for belief in God or in the Bible beyond the pretty useless concept of blind faith.
However, Carl is also mistaken in his suggestion that no credible, well-trained scientists have any sort of viable model or basis for interpreting the data as supporting the theory of young-life on Earth and a rapid catastrophic model for the formation of the geologic and fossil records. There are many such scientists – both within and without the SDA Church. It is just that much of Carl’s thinking and understanding of the relevant data is outdated or simply mistaken…
Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com
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I fail to see where you have convincingly supported your claim that the GC leadership contributed to the harm of anyone’s personal religious liberties? – given that the GC leadership does not and could not override personal religious liberties in this country, nor substantively change the outcome of those who lost their jobs over various vaccine mandates. That’s just not how it works here in this country. Religious liberties are personally derived. Again, they simply are not based on a corporate or church position, but rely solely upon individual convictions – regardless of what the church may or may not say or do.
Yet, you say, “Who cares if it is written into law”? You should care. Everyone should care. It’s a very important law in this country. The idea that the organized church could have changed vaccine mandates simply isn’t true – particularly given the nature of certain types of jobs dealing with the most vulnerable in society (such as health care workers for example).
Beyond this, the GC Leadership did, in fact, write in support of personal religious convictions on this topic – and there are GC lawyers who have and continue to write personal letters in support of personal religious convictions (even if these personal convictions are at odds with the position of the church on a given topic). Just because the GC leadership also supports the advances of modern medicine doesn’t mean that the GC leadership cannot support individual convictions at the same time. Both are possible. This is not an inconsistency.
