” That’s a ridiculous argument… and the same thing is …

Comment on God and Granite Cubes by George.

” That’s a ridiculous argument… and the same thing is true for biological complexity at higher levels.”

But it is not ridiculous to think once all biological life was perfect without decay and all biodiversity ( except fish and fowl) that we see today came from animals crammed into an Ark that survived a world wide flood? Ahhh yes… but this latter proposition is supported by the weight of the evidence buttressed by biblical credibility.

I think what Pauluc and others are trying to point out to you ( for example look af the opinions of Noble Prize winning, Christian Professor Townes) is that there can be a disparity between science and literal biblical faith and that is OK. But when all science has to be shoe horned into a unique YLC model, this is going to be viewed as a tad narrow on the objective rational scale:)

I confess, I don’t know if there is a God, don’t know the nature of HIm/Her/It, rely on science over time to give me a better understanding of reality and to understand what God is likely not, see the hand of Man in creating religion and ideas of God(s) over time, have never spoken to a God or been spoken to one- that I know of – have never witnessed ghosts, spirits, miracles, etc. Doesn’t mean I am not looking for answers or oblivious to the faith of others. Faith and hope can be very comforting things and I do not begrudge anyone in that regard.

As to non human design, the jury remains out. As I cited to you long ago there is evidence of other universes: and they are a possibility. If they are numerous – approaching infinity- then there is certainly a possibility that ours is by chance one that supports observable human life ( anthropic principle). This is no more outlandish than your admonition – and speculation – to me that I don’t understand the power of a god that would contemplate birth control or humans travelling to other planets as part of a ‘perfect’ plan. If you can speculate on God’s unstated motives it’s OK to speculate on a metaverse where cosmology is now starting to explore πŸ™‚

Lots of fun and food for thought in any case, keep up the good work and dialogue.

By the way, my family and good friends think a bit nutty in any case, especially for a secular guy that spends so much time blogging on Educate Truth….. ha ha hee hee πŸ™‚

George Also Commented

God and Granite Cubes
@ Sean

“The concept of infinite universes beyond our own is simply not testable and could never be testable in a falsifiable manner from our very very limited Earth-bound perspective. ”

How do you know that? How do you know it could ‘never’ be testable, if in fact certain cosmologists are know making observations that they say indicate the effect of other universes on our own? How do you know as time goes on that Man will not in fact unravel the mystery and provide more concrete evidence of a multiverse?

Yet, as Ron points out, God of the Gaps becomes your default mechanism for ‘ostensible’ design – that gets whittled down over time by science demonstrates how cause and effect mechanisms create phenomena.

Again the glaring double standard.

God and Granite Cubes
“In short, just because you can imagine it and just because it might exist, doesn’t mean that there is any evidence for it or that it can be studied scientifically with the potential for falsification.”

You are talikng about God here, right? πŸ™‚

God and Granite Cubes
@ Sean

“You have absolutely no rational argument to the contrary – and neither does anyone else.”

This speaks volumes my friend! It reminds me of the joke: ” everyone is crazy except you and me… and I’m beginning to wonder about you πŸ™‚ I am quite prepared for you to discount my scientific rationality. However are you really saying that of all the other scientists that differ from you on evolution, none of them has ‘any’ rational argument!?

As previously expressed, what you resort to when you don’t have scientifc evidence on six day creation or recent life, or proof of miracles, is resort to the ole bromide weight of evidence based on biblical credibility. However when it comes to evolution you use no such test but put it to such laboratory exactitude of changes that occur over millions of years of time. This double standard has not only been pointed out by me but by other Adventist scientists as well. Yet you are the ‘only’ one with a rational argument. Is that scientific?

Recent Comments by George

Science, Methodological Naturalism, and Faith
@ Dr. Pitman

How did you make the segue from the creation story to Alexander the Great as historical science? What am I missing here – did someone actually witness the creation story and write about it?

Let’s try to stay inside the ball park on analogies shall we?

Science, Methodological Naturalism, and Faith
“Again, why do you believe that Alexander the Great really did the various things that historians claim he did.”

Who said I did?

History is often recorded by the victors who may well gild the lily. Different historians may say different things about him. Some may have been eye witnesses, some may have not relying on hearsay. Some may have had a bias. Take all history with a grain of salt by considering the sources and margin for error I say.

However you’re not just talking about claims of the Bible, you’re talking about the claims of EGW. Do you have some empirical proof that she actually visited those worlds she described? If so where is your corroborating evidence of any sort? In short is your belief about EGW’s vision of extra terrestial based on any science whatsoever?

Science, Methodological Naturalism, and Faith

Have you ever read how much resistance Darwin faced when Origin of Species was first published? Many of the scientific establishment opposed him. In fact I have read that natural selection did not become a centerpiece of modern evolutionary biology until the 1930’s and 1940’s.

Darwin, like Pasteur has stood the test of time, notwithstanding the lack of initial scientific consensus. Who knows, perhaps one day YEC or YLC may ascend to the scientific pantheon? Have to find evidence for 6 day creation and how biodiversity emanated from the Ark though πŸ™‚
Until then, I’m afraid they are just so stories.

Science, Methodological Naturalism, and Faith
Did you notice that you have unilaterally used the analogy of Alexander the Great of which I have never studied or alluded to?

Are you equating EGW’s vision of extra terrestrial life to a battle on earth? Proverbial apples and oranges, but your silence and evasion of the science behind EGW’s vision is deafening.

Science, Methodological Naturalism, and Faith
@ Bob and Sean

Is EGW’s vision scientific? Is it corroborated or falsifiable?

Ask yourselves honestly why you believe in it. If it is because of your faith that is fine, but if it has some scientific, empirical basis, as Dr. Pitman likes to tote, you need to establish that basis. Otherwise it is a ‘just so’ theological story.

Also, I think a couple of my previous comments on this topic never made it out of the cyber editing room. I didn’t think they were offensive so I’m not sure why they were not posted. πŸ™‚