Reflections on the Creation Evolution Debate

Christiane Marshall: Our responsibilities are not simply to denounce what is happening at LSU and to take “decisive action,” but it is also to labor to make it possible for our children to avoid the dangers of the seductive nature of this controversy wherever they might find it*.

I know it seems silly to quote myself! But my husband just found this website. It seems to be a great resource to use with children:

http://www.thegrandexperiment.com/

Reflections on the Creation Evolution Debate
(Please forgive the length of this comment. Pastor Bohr’s post brought many thoughts to my mind. I wrote this and did not post it at first as I was unsure if it was okay to post something so long.)

Pastor Bohr, Thank you for your very thoughtful post. I applaud your firm conviction to uphold the truths in Genesis in your work as a pastor and to warn parents. I look forward to your next newsletter. (You referred to a newsletter. I’m assuming you will post here, but I will be checking on your website also.)

Here are some of my thoughts in response to your post. (I’m not trying to negate the need for decisive action. I agree.)

It is interesting to look back at the pantheism crisis as well as the days of Noah, and see the parallels. There are also many differences.

For example, as creationists, we have many advocates in the world at large. There are many scientists both within our own church and outside of our church who can effectively participate in the scientific debate. (They also contribute material that we can use.)

I recently went back to school to train for a second career and took some biology courses at Ohio State University. I was at first afraid that these courses would hurt my faith. However, the more I learned about the complexities of life, the more my faith strengthened. One evolutionist professor spoke openly about the problems with evolution, and said at one point, “evolution is a collection of bad science.”

This same professor spent some time going over common misconceptions that are considered ‘proof’ of evolution that continually find their way into textbooks. He has made many attempts to have these errors rectified with various textbook publishers.

You might be thinking he was a closet creationist, but I am certain he was not. He also poked fun at creationists on many levels and pretty much made it known that a true scientist could not believe in a creator. I remember his stating that science is not the search for truth.

The danger of having evolutionists in our own schools is that our own professors would feel the need to put a special emphasis on separating science from faith. Their presentation of science is peculiarly dangerous because of a combination of their special emphases and their positions of authority.

I think there may be a danger in separating faith from science. As sister White said in Steps to Christ, “Nature and revelation alike testify of God’s love. Our Father in heaven is the source of life, of wisdom, and of joy. Look at the wonderful and beautiful things of nature. Think of their marvelous adaptation to the needs and happiness, not only of man, but of all living creatures. The sunshine and the rain, that gladden and refresh the earth, the hills and seas and plains, all speak to us of the Creator’s love.”

Answers in Genesis promotes the idea that pastors and church teachers should infuse creation gems into their presentations of faith. They have developed material that churches can use. My husband has fossils he has collected over the years and periodically uses them in a sermon or creation presentation. This past summer we took pictures (fossil collection there is not legal) of a plethora of fossils on Joggins Cliffs in Nova Scotia. We were especially searching for one of the trees that pushes through many layers that have come to supposedly represent vast periods of time. We were told by a museum official that the cliffs continue to erode and expose more and more of these trees.

It was such a picture that convinced me beyond a doubt years ago. A Bible worker included a slide of one of these trees in a presentation he gave at the first Adventist church I ever attended.

So although I agree that there is no sense in those of us who are scientific lay persons to argue with evolutionist scientists on scientific grounds–we do have a fountain of scientific resources created for laypersons by creationist scientists. We are at the end of time where “knowledge is increased.”

Marketers of health products use simple language in carefully crafted prose to present scientific evidence to sell their products to non-scientists. This method is very effective and has generated multi-million dollar results for many corporations.

We reason in our evangelistic efforts by using scripture, and by using credible historical references. So in this debate which has science and scriptural elements; I believe that we cannot truly separate the two. They are inextricably woven together (‘Nature and revelation alike…’).

I was an adult with a well-grounded faith when I attended OSU and sat in those biology classes. My understanding of the Genesis account of creation included a strong conviction that faith and science cannot be at odds. I knew that to find agreement, one must not try to twist scripture or science, but look closer at both scripture and science.

The closer I examine both, the stronger my conviction becomes. I feel strongly that we must begin to emphasize this strong examination of God’s nature and revelation in our churches, including Sabbath School and schools. The pastors and teachers do not need to be scientists, but can draw upon the work of scientists just as the evangelist draws upon the work of historians in evangelism.

I appreciate your prayer that “God will give wisdom to those who labor on all level of church organization…” I thought I’d share my two cents. Hopefully, both the current crisis and preventative steps at the local level as you suggested will make the difference.

To sum up my thoughts, here are the unique aspects of our struggle as compared to the pantheism crisis and the time of Noah:

-We have much scientific evidence to draw upon as we are in the times of the increase of knowledge.
-Regarding this particular issue, we have advocates both within and outside of the church.
-We have resources of technology and knowledge that did not exist then. We should use these to begin educating children early in our churches, not just in our schools and colleges.

We must emphasize a close examination of truth both in science and revelation. This is what grounds our students. We can meet this crisis now in our church, but we have no idea what our students will encounter later on. Our responsibilities are not simply to denounce what is happening at LSU and to take “decisive action,” but it is also to labor to make it possible for our children to avoid the dangers of the seductive nature of this controversy wherever they might find it*.

(*There is a trend in our church now toward increasing ministry to children, and ministry on the secular college campus. My hope is that these ministries will be encouraged and funded.)

GC Votes to Revise SDA Fundamental #6 on Creation
@Sean Pitman:

We may just be arguing apples and apples. I am certainly not advocating ‘blind faith’ as you have had cause to address frequently on this sight. I am arguing against an over-dependence on extra-biblical evidence for our faith walk.

How do you know that the Bible is really the Word of God, while other religious texts, like the Book of Mormon, is not? How do you tell the difference? My LDS friends tell me that God gives them a warm feeling deep within themselves when they see or hear the truth. That is how they know that the Book of Mormon is from God. For me, I don’t find this approach very helpful when it comes to establishing a solid hope or confidence in the Bible as God’s word.

I actually had the opportunity to study many of the world’s so-called sacred texts before accepting the Bible as the true one. The Bible’s internal testimony coupled with the convicting witness of the Holy Spirit is what finally tipped the scales for me. Yes, I did do a bit of reading about historical and archeological and logical reasons why this testimony was credible – but it was the testimony of the Bible itself (coupled with the personal witness and testimony of Christians and the witness of the Holy Spirit) that helped me experience a saving faith. Most people are not as analytical as you or I. Most read the Bible and are convicted that it is true – without undertaking an extensive research project into the scientific reasons that may be so. Poor uneducated people in the third world experience a more vital faith than you or I, without such in-depth confirmatory knowledge. Doug Batchelor did not have a computer and a library full of data to assist him in that cave outside of Palm Springs – only the Bible! Most people who are converted to Christ testify that it was through influence of friends who witnessed to them about their relationship with Christ (a very subjective thing scientifically) – not through a rigorous scientific examination of the empirical data.

Once again, most people have no empirical evidence that the resurrection took place – they have only the testimony of those who witnessed that it took place. Yes, there are logical inferences that confirm that it must have taken place. But when you say empirical I’m assuming you are saying something that can be observed in present time reality and scientifically tested.

“Empirical evidence is a fancy way of describing facts that can be experienced and tested only through the senses.”
Faith has to do with learning to trust our spiritual senses above our physical ones. How else would you explain the numerous persons who testify that they were ‘deeply impressed’ to take a certain path when all the empirical data seemed to say otherwise – later to find out that their life depended on this ‘spiritual sense’ choice! Of course I’m not arguing for pentecostalism here, but you get the idea.

Did the faith of Jesus’ disciples increase or decrease after they saw Him resurrected from the grave?

Of course it was strengthened. Christ said however that it was a more blessed experience to believe without such empirical experience. What was He saying? I think He was saying that it is more blessed to take God at His Word than to demand or depend upon empirical evidence. The story of Gideon is a powerful testimony to this principle.

Victor

“Don’t go backwards to interpret Genesis as allegorical or symbolic”

Victor,Sometimes it’s appropriate to hit-the-nail on the head.Take for example Jesus’ statement to the Samaritan woman, “Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.”That might seem inappropriately direct, but it wasn’t.It was just what she needed.The scattered servants of Christ needed to hear the president of the world church express a clear understanding of where the church needs to go.And my own experience with non-Christians is that they respond much more vigorously and appreciatively to a meaningful presentation of the Bible than they do to a generalistic and generic appeal to their feelings.I’m sure you aren’t advocating a meaningless presentation, but I’m all for exactly the type of message President Wilson gave.I suspect those outside the church who care enough to listen to his message appreciate the frankness with which this leader expressed the direction he intends to go.I think many of them know he wasn’t targeting them – he was talking to us.  

Robert, I agree with you AND with Victor. I don’t really know what the answer is. In the information age, everything has changed. We have to rethink a lot about how we do things. We want to have a private evangelistic series and present truths by presenting the building blocks first, and building understanding before presenting the “more difficult aspects.” But how can we now? The last meetings we held, people went home and googled our personal names as well as doctrinal topics.

Sure we want a clear and meaningful message, but we want to protect those who are not ready to receive all of the truth at this time. We don’t want to push them away. It isn’t that we are afraid of offending them personally. It’s that we don’t want walls to go up so that we can’t reach out to them successfully.

I don’t know what the answer is. Even this forum is disturbing when our members have out and out conflicts, especially when behavior is not becoming of a Christian. It’s available for the whole world to see!

What it comes down to is things are different now. We need to approach everything differently. Otherwise, evangelistic interests will begin to think of us as the religious “Amway” brigade and lock their doors before we go up the steps.

The increase of knowledge and the rapid availability of it has changed our landscape. Christiane

“Don’t go backwards to interpret Genesis as allegorical or symbolic”

Did Wilson explain how SDA members can actually hold our leaders accountable?We have many leaders out here in the Pacific Union Conference who have not been accountable and still aren’t, but what can ordinary “Joe and Jill Schmo” church members do?  

I wondered the same thing. I just realized this year that I really don’t know enough about how our church works and how changes are made. It’s my intention to study this out. Of course Biblical principles and a Christlike attitude must be followed (Matthew 18, and Proverbs 17:9–“He that covereth a transgression seeketh love; but he that repeateth a matter separateth very friends”). Biblical principles and Christlike attitude first, church policy second.

Christiane

Michigan Conference takes substantial action in LSU conflict
I hope more will follow, and will do so prayerfully.

EducateTruth.com promoted on 3ABN
A classic case which should cause any Adventist to stop in their tracks when judging motive or destiny is the following one:

“If William Miller could have seen the light of the third message, many things which looked dark and mysterious to him would have been explained. But his brethren professed so deep love and interest for him, that he thought he could not tear away from them. His heart would incline toward the truth, and then he looked at his brethren; they opposed it. Could he tear away from those who had stood side by side with him in proclaiming the coming of Jesus? He thought they surely would not lead him astray.
God suffered him to fall under the power of Satan, the dominion of death, and hid him in the grave from those who were constantly drawing him from the truth. Moses erred as he was about to enter the Promised Land. So also, I saw that William Miller erred as he was soon to enter the heavenly Canaan, in suffering his influence to go against the truth. Others led him to this; others must account for it. But angels watch the precious dust of this servant of God, and he will come forth at the sound of the last trump.” – EW 258