Comment on New NAD president: ‘I love you’ doesn’t mean we won’t deal with issues by Professor Kent.
So let me get this straight. According to Dr. Pitman:
There were no high mountains before the flood, such as the Himalayas…not because the Bible or Ellen White said so, but we can infer it as fact because it was impossible for them to have the luxuriant vegetation Ms. White spoke of. And Ms. White had her science right on this.
These very tall and cragged mountains came about during the violent, tectonic forces accompanying the flood…not because the Bible or Ellen White said so, but because there had to be a lot of energy released during the flood, which is nonetheless consistent with the Bible and Ellen White.
Now this is where things get fuzzy for those of us lacking superior reasoning skills. Tall mountains like the Himalayas could not have appeared during the flood until after they were first completely covered by the flood waters, because the Bible and Ellen White both said that the flood covered all the mountains, including those that rose up during the flood to heights the flood could not have possibly reached. And, of course, the fossils on these mountains had to be preserved by the flood before the mountains could rise up above the flood during the flood because after the flood the mountains were too high for marine deposits to form on them. And, if Ms. White is correct in telling us that soil was stripped from the mountains by the flood (we know she had her science right on this), then by some miracle these fossil-laden soils actually ended up remaining on the mountains rather than being washed away by the flood (in spite of Ms. White’s statement), and all this while the mountains that were covered by the flood somehow rose up during the flood to heights that the flood could not have reached.
This all sounds like foundational SDA doctrine to me. Where would our Church be without such a proper understanding of the flood? My kudos to Dr. Pitman, who “gets it” and has it all figured out.
Professor Kent Also Commented
New NAD president: ‘I love you’ doesn’t mean we won’t deal with issues
@ Sean Pitman
As the waters and massive tsunamis covered and reformed the planet during the Flood and subsequent aftermath, flat sedimentary layers would have been deposited which would not resemble the previous “soil” that once covered the Earth. Then, as the surface of the Earth broke up into continents and tectonic activity went into full swing, the newly formed sedimentary layers would themselves have become warped and folded – as well see today even on the tops of the highest mountain ranges in the world…
I think you’re making it quite clear that the majority of tectonic upheavel could not have occurred during the period of the flood while it was raining, as the mountains quickly would have emerged ahead of the rising flood waters. What you’re suggesting, basically, is that the extraordinary uplift of mountains had to have happened after the rain stopped.
My two questions for you:
1. Where are your data?
2. Is it ever okay to say, “we don’t have a lot of information and we don’t have a clear picture of what happened before, during, and after the flood?” Of course, we come across as more intelligent and informed when we claim to have answers. Some of us can’t resist the bait.
New NAD president: ‘I love you’ doesn’t mean we won’t deal with issues
Funny how all those extraordinary tectonic forces during the flood failed to generate a tsunami large enough to roll the ark. Of course, angels probably calmed the water around the ark–though this (among many other miraculous Biblical events) would be difficult to demonstrate using science.
New NAD president: ‘I love you’ doesn’t mean we won’t deal with issues
Fourth, I am bewildered as to why Seventh-day Adventists must be required to believe that reptiles and mammals (not to mention birds, which must surely be grouped with the mammals) at one time could not coexist because of different temperature tolerances. We surely don’t see this today. Mammals (and birds) abound in the hottest and most humid lowlands today, and reptiles currently abound in the cooler mountains. And, of course, to merely survive the flood, they all had to somehow coexist on one big boat called the ark.
Perhaps someone could explain to me the physiological systems of these long-extinct animals that rendered small and large birds and mammals alike (some fast, some slow) unable to live in the lowlands, and the small and large amphibians and reptiles alike (some fast, some slow) unable to live at the higher elevations (that weren’t even very high, apparently).
Fifth, I can’t help but wonder whether someone could get fired at Southern Adventist University for questioning their apparently official position. Anyone got an answer?
Recent Comments by Professor Kent
Gary Gilbert, Spectrum, and Pseudogenes
Nic Samojluk: No wonder most creationist writers do not even try to submit their papers to such organizations.
Who wants to waste his/her time trying to enter through a door that is closed to him/her a priori?
You have no idea what you’re writing about, Nic. As it turns out, there are in fact many of us Adventists who “waste” our time publishing articles through doors that open to us a priori. Even Leonard Brand at Loma Linda, a widely recognized creationist, has published in the top geology journals. I mean the top journals in the discipline.
The myth that creationists cannot publish in mainstream science is perpetuated by people who simply do not understand the culture of science–and will remain clueless that they do not understand it even when confronted with their misunderstandings. Such is human nature.
Southern Adventist University opens Origins Exhibit
Pauluc,
Your questions about conservation genetics are very insightful. I don’t understand how all these life forms were able to greatly increase in genetic diversity while simultaneously winding down and losing genetic information to mutations. Sean seems to insist that both processes happen simultaneously. I had the impression he has insisted all along that the former cannot overcome the latter. But I think you must be right: God had to intervene to alter the course of nature. However, we can probably test this empirically because there must be a signature of evidence available in the DNA. I’ll bet Sean can find the evidence for this.
I’m also glad the predators (just 2 of most such species) in the ark had enough clean animals (14 of each such species) to eat during the deluge and in the months and years after they emerged from the ark that they didn’t wipe out the vast majority of animal species through predation. Maybe they all consumed manna while in the ark and during the first few months or years afterward. Perhaps Sean can find in the literature a gene for a single digestive enzyme that is common to all predatory animals, from the lowest invertebrate to the highest vertebrate. Now that would be amazing.
Wait a minute–I remember once being told that SDA biologists like Art Chadwick believe that some animals survived on floating vegetation outside the ark. Now that would solve some of these very real problems! I wonder whether readers here would allow for this possibility. Multiple arks without walls, roof, and human caretakers.
Southern Adventist University opens Origins Exhibit
Ellen White said, “In the days of Noah, men…many times larger than now exist, were buried, and thus preserved as an evidence to later generations that the antediluvians [presumably referring to humans] perished by a flood. God designed that the discovery of these things should establish faith in inspired history…”
Sean Pitman said, “All human fossils discovered so far are Tertiary or post-Flood fossils. There are no known antediluvian human fossils.”
Ellen White tells us that humans and dinosaurs (presumably referred to in the statement, “a class of very large animals which perished at the flood… mammoth animals”) lived together before the flood. Evolutionary biologists tell us that dinosaurs and humans never lived together. You’re telling us, Sean, that the fossil record supports the conclusion of evolutionists rather than that of Ellen White and the SDA Church. Many of the “very large animals which perished at the flood” are found only in fossil deposits prior to or attributed to the flood, whereas hunans occur in fossil deposits only after the flood (when their numbers were most scarce).
Should the SDA biologists, who are supposed to teach “creation science,” be fired if they teach what you have just conceded?
La Sierra Univeristy Fires Dr. Lee Greer; Signs anti-Creation Bond
For those aghast about the LSU situation and wondering what other SDA institutions have taken out bonds, hold on to your britches. You’ll be stunned when you learn (soon) how many of our other schools, and which ones in particular, have taken out these bonds. You will be amazed to learn just how many other administrators have deliberately secularized their institutions besides Randal Wisbey, presumably because they too hate the SDA Church (as David Read has put it so tactfully).
Be sure to protest equally loudly.
Gary Gilbert, Spectrum, and Pseudogenes
@Sean Pitman:
So clearly you believe that science can explain supernatural events. Congratulations on that.
