Comment on La Sierra schism widens by Darrell.
Stephen Vicaro: Darrell:I hope that you will please look beyond some of the more passionate, though well meaning comments of some and listen to reason.The theistic evolutionary belief system offers no Biblically based salvation (see my previous comment).If you are going to reject creationism then you have to reject the origin of sin and the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ.These incompatibilities must be reconciled.Maybe you can answer my previous question to John, which he did not answer: how is a person saved if God did not create the world by a miraculous act in six days?If you cannot answer that question then you leave us without hope for the future.We are all doomed under the theistic evolutionary â€œfaith.â€Please explain this to us.
Stephen, don’t get me wrong. I fully believe in a literal creation and deny theistic evolution. However, the Inquisitional mindset I see here by some is plain old wrong regardless of the truth of our stance. When we rail against the tactics of the midieval Catholic Church and promote how the Beast in the name of truth and a zealous desire to do what they feel is right in God’s eyes will persecute those who believe differently then they do, we SHOULD NOT be promoting this legalistic mindset towards our own people.
We are no better off than the Pharisees who felt they had all the truth and were completely justified in crucifying Christ and dictating what the people should and should not believe. Our church has used these inquisitorial tactics many times in the past and it needs to stop.
Darrell Also Commented
BobRyan: @Darrell:Hint: 1Cor 5:6-7 1 Tim 5:20But Darrell illustrates a good example instructive for the unbiased objective reader. His argument is to claim equality with all inspired texts (be that Ex 20:8-11 or 3SG 90-91) and then argue that all of those texts are merely â€œopinionâ€ of no more value in than an TE-ist on the planet.
I’ve said no such thing, Bob. My argument is that regardless of the obviousness of error in TE, the mindset that people are generating of ‘kill em all and let God sort them out’ will usually be applied to other things that are not the mountains like TE. Our history is rife with issues of dress, adornment, meat eating, secular entertainment and sports where someone has taken a hard stance and expected everyone else to conform or you are not a ‘good SDA’. The trend has shown that bullies in the big things are usually bullies in the small things too. Who decides who is the SDA morality police that feels it is their right to purge heresy in whatever form they deem fit?
The current mentality from many conservatives is, ‘If you can’t believe as our church believes in every doctrinal specific, you shouldn’t be an SDA.” And I’m not talking about TE here. I’m talking about not believing on how to keep the Sabbath as some do, I’m talking about not believing the finer points of biblical prophecy or eschaetology as some in our church do. I’m talking about styles of worship, dress, eating and drinking that others feel they have a monopoly on the truth of it. This mentality is taken further when the witch-hunters decide you are not moving out the door fast enough for them. Character assassination, slander, railroading, vicious gossip..all of these have been engaged in because people won’t toe the status line.
Our church is rife with scandal, slander, corruption, and false accusations at all levels because people feel their way of worshipping, believing and interpreting the scriptures is the ‘truth’ and woe to him who doesn’t follow it that way.
La Sierra schism widens
Faith: So then, Darrell, just how do you propose we go about correcting this problem?If we arenâ€™t supposed to speak out against the error in the church, what do you suppose will keep the church doctrinally pure?
First of all, as I said before, you can boycott LSU, don’t send your children or money there and the conference can separate themselves from the church if need be. This is a conference issue. Who are you to play the watchdog/Inquistor of the church to call for heads and threaten excommunication? As Marcel pointed out earlier, it is only a matter of time before such tactics are used against you in some other area.
Second, why do you feel the need to ‘purify the church’? Theistic evolution aside, where is the diversity of belief in the church? Where is the tolerance and acceptance of differing beliefs? Who determines the level of purity to be reached and how exactly do you propose the church gets there? More witch hunts? More elitist thinking that insists your view is correct and everyone else can conform or get lost? Slander? Career destruction in the name of God’s work and ‘purity’? Where does it end?
This is midieval Catholic methodology at it’s worse. You really want to be a part of this legalistic Pharisaism? Do you not see the parallels here?
Be careful when you begin to make yourself the Holy Spirit, Faith. This is how every religous war began. The need to enforce religious beliefs on people and make them conform or die.
FaithYou call it an inquisition, but the truth is, it is a defensive maneuver.
No, it is a witch hunt and Catholic Inquisitorial tactics. It is not a defensive maneuver.
FaithWe have a rightâ€“no, a dutyâ€“to lift our voices in protest AND to take action to defend our church.
And ‘purging’ the church is the way to do it? Who made you and the conservative brethren the judge of what is acceptable or unacceptable to warrant persecution, excommunication and head rolling?
La Sierra schism widens
“Not only should they be fired from their jobs, they should be disfellowshippedâ€¦and that goes for the administration and the boards of whateverâ€¦the place needs to be cleaned out from the top down….This viperâ€™s nest has been allowed to grow for far too long and it is going to take people with courage, who are willing to do Godâ€™s will, instead of bowing to popular worldly opinion, to get the job done….Letâ€™s purify our church and bring it back into complete harmony with the Bible that we claim as the basis of our beliefs.”
My, my. Interesting how people who promote the persecution of God’s saints by those who feel they are teaching truth can so blatantly do the same thing towards their own. Just like the Puritans escaping Catholic persecution in Europe, they came over to the New World and set up the same government to persecute others they did not agree with, so to too many conservative SDAs are willing to do the same thing.
Faith, your tactics smack of Catholic Inquisition and Pharisaical persecution in the name of ‘truth’. Right or wrong, it is sad to see such vehemence just like the Christian Coalition and above mentioned groups coming from the SDA church. As SDAs with the eschaetological message we have, we should know better than to spew such rhetoric. This is what turns people off of SDAism. This is the kind of soul crushing legalism that too many in our church turn to, forgetting where their own faith came from and to the persecution it is heading for in the last days
By all means, remove your support from LSU. Have the church remove their funding. Boycott it as well. However, when you start preaching Inquisition like you are and yes, even though you disagree with it…witch hunting…you are encouraging persecution and promoting elitism under the guise of ‘standing for truth’ and ‘working for God’.
The Pharisees and Catholics were doing the same thing.
Right or wrong, you should know better.