Comment on La Sierra schism widens by Faith.
Ok, so you don’t like the straight truth…hmmm…I wonder why. Didn’t Christ say that it was sharper than a two-edged sword?
So you think we should all sit here and say nothing while young people are being led astray by the professors, do you? We should all just fold our tents and disappear into the night, huh? I daresay that would suit your purposes quite nicely. And not only yours but the devil who stands behind it all, laughing up his sleeve to see God’s church infiltrated with his cunningly devised fables.
Do I think the professors should be disfellowshiped? Yes-if they insist on believing evolution over God’s direct Word. Anyone who doesn’t believe in ALL the doctrines of our church does not belong here. What if they were espousing the Sunday sabbath–what would we do, just say, “Oh well, they are entitled to believe whatever they want”? No! (Now, it is true that anyone is entitled to believe whatever they want…but they cannot claim to be SDA unless they believe what the church holds as their official doctrine. And they certainly have no business teaching such beliefs in our schools when they go directly against what the church believes.)
So what does God, through His servant, say about this issue?
“But there is no union between the Prince of light and the prince of darkness and there can be no union between their followers.” GC p. 45
What makes the SDA church the SDA church? The only thing that separates the SDA church from all other churches is her doctrines. So if we allow anyone and everyone to teach whatever they want in our schools, or hold beliefs that are in conflict with SDA beliefs and still remain in our church, what will eventually happen to the church? She will become the same as every other church that has allowed this, and she would eventually be numbered among the daughters of Babylon. Don’t you people study history?
You just don’t seem to realize the importance of what is going on here…or perhaps you just don’t care. Well I do–I care passionately.
Just as in apostolic times when the pagans proposed compromise so they could be a part of the church, we are being infiltrated with false doctrines that are creeping into our church. It is important to purify the church and yes, God is in control of that, but we have our part to play as well. Open sin–which is what the belief in evolution is–is to be summarily dealt with in order to save those who would be corrupted by it–in this case the young students that have been taught this heresy. I am not picking on people because they don’t share my opinions. These people are in open rebellion against the church and her standards. Go find a Church Manual and see what the Lord directed in cases such as this.
Think about what happened in the wilderness when Moses was faced with Korah, Dathan, and Abiram. Moses didn’t open the ground and swallow them up, God did that, but Moses called them to account…and he did it at God’s direction. You seem to have no regard for the purity of the church or its steadfastness to the doctrines that were given to us by God Himself.
This issue is not over a mere matter of opinion…this is heresy and open rebellion.
God’s message through His servant Ellen White is:
“There is an alarming indifference in regard to the doctrines which are the pillars of the Christian faith. The opinion is gathering ground that, after all, these are not of vital importance. This degeneracy is strengthening the hands of the agents of Satan, so that false theories and fatal delusions which the faithful in ages past imperiled their lives to resist and expose, are now regarded with favor by thousands who claim to be followers of Christ.” GC p. 46
Do you understand now why I am so upset over all this? Don’t forget there is such a thing as righteous indignation.
Contrary to some opinions, I don’t enjoy any of this; as a matter of fact, I am heartily sick of this. You picture me as some dog, out baying for blood just for the sake of hunting. Give me a break–you don’t really believe that, you are just trying to muddy the waters to keep people from the real issues. (If you do believe it you really are deceived.)Fundamental Adventists are concerned for the church and its young people. What you think of me personally couldn’t be less important. We’re playing for stakes here that are way higher than your opinion of me or anyone else. You want to blast me for telling the truth? Go ahead–I really expected it much quicker than this. But all your rhetoric isn’t going to save you from the judgment day…which, when you think about it, is happening right now. We are in the Day of Atonement. Now that’s something to consider.
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Faith Also Commented
La Sierra schism widens
Very true, Rich.
Faith
La Sierra schism widens
Bob Ryan said:
The gross equivocation that Darrell attempts above – equating the practices of 1Cor 5:6-7 and 1Tim 5:19 (public censure) to dark ages “torture†— is clearly visible to the unbiased objective reader (and so it is avoidable).
We need to take action – (as we see in 3T 265-269)
in Christ,
Bob
Rich Constantinescu said:
Darrell: “Faith, your tactics smack of Catholic Inquisition and Pharisaical persecution.â€
On the contrary she refuses to drink the maddening errors of Babylon and does not think to change times and laws. Neither is she drunk with blood, much less the blood of saints who believe and obey God’s law.
God bless,
Rich
Thank you, brothers, for your understanding and support. It is much appreciated.
Faith
La Sierra schism widens
Darrell, I think you are over-reacting a bit. No one has said to ‘kill em all and let God sort them out’. There has not been the least whiff of physical violence or mob mentality displayed on this site at all. If these professors were caught committing adultry, would we be asking for them to be fired? Of course we would. Would we expect them to be disfellowshiped? Of course we would. Well, they may not be guilty of physical adultry, but, (as my sister reminds me), they certainly have been guilty of spiritual adultery.
And, Darrell, what do you think defines any given group of people? It is the rules and standards they live by, be it Hell’s Angels or the SDA church. You are basically arguing that people who don’t agree with the official doctrines of the church and refuse to follow the defined standards should be allowed to continue representing the church. Inspiration tells us that such ones are worse than infidels because they claim to be SDAs and don’t live up to the principles of SDAs; they essentially misrepresent the church and mislead people who don’t know what we are supposed to be.
This idea that God loves us all, no matter what we do, say, or believe has been skewed to the interpretation that anything goes. Why, then, did God lead the pioneers to study the scriptures and establish the doctrines and standards of this church–sometimes even giving Ellen White visions to lead them in the right way concerning issues that couldn’t be resolved in any other way? Why, then, do angels keep records of every word, thought, and action of every human being on this earth? Do you really believe that people will go to heaven and live in harmony unless they share the same beliefs and lifestyles? (You need only look around you on this earth to know that is impossible!) God has outlined doctrines and standards for us in the Scriptures and the Spirit of Prophecy. Do you honestly think that He called the Bible writers and Ellen White to devote their lives to record all these truths just to have them ignored?
There IS a standard for us to live by–as has been defined by God Himself. And yes, woe will come to him who doesn’t follow it. When the Lord separates the sheep from the goats, many who thought they were saved, won’t be. (Does that make God a “Catholic Inquisitor” or a “Pharisaical persecutor”?–and, no, I am not putting myself in the place of God–don’t even go there. I am only trying to uphold the standards and doctrines He has set for us.) It is a serious thing to live according to your own will and desires instead of conforming to the will of God. All are free to choose to live the way they like, but to take the name of SDA and not to strive to live up to the standards of the church is to be dishonest. To actively teach heresy is reprehensible.
By choosing to teach evolution in any way, shape, or form, these professors have disqualified themselves as instuctors in our institutions and, yes, even as church members. You don’t seem to understand (or care) that they are daily leading young people away from the truth. Frankly, I don’t understand why our people don’t consider this an urgent matter that needs immediate attention. With every day that passes, this poison spreads wider and deeper. Simply sitting back and letting it resolve itself is not an option. The past 25 or 30 years should have made that abundantly obvious. Even withdrawing support from the institutions involved is not going to work. We need action and we need it yesterday. Why should these people hold our institutions hostage to their false beliefs? Did they struggle to establish these schools? Men and women committed their whole lives to get these places up and running for the benefit of our people and these professed SDA teachers are being allowed to bring them to ruin. We all need to read Job 38:4-41:34 It begins:
“Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.”
When you read this passage, it really makes you humble. God is so much greater than we could ever be. He has given us so much in the way of understanding that we could never have discovered by ourselves. What a privilege to know God…what an incalulable gift is eternal life with Him! Instead of striving to live in comformity to the world, we should be striving to live in conformity to Him and His will. We are here on this planet to get ourselves ready to live in heaven. That means we need to develop characters that will enable us to live in heaven in perfect harmony with other like-minded believers. That means we need to quit looking at the world, quit looking at self, and look to Christ, our perfect example and our essential helper.
I truly don’t understand the mentality that comes down on people who are trying to stand up for the right when there are people out there doing their best to undermine faith in the Creator and in His church. Surely your efforts could be put to better use.
Faith
Recent Comments by Faith
Changing the Wording of Adventist Fundamental Belief #6 on Creation
And you are correct, Sean, PK must consider where his influence is going–for God or against Him.
Southern Adventist University opens Origins Exhibit
Mr Taylor,
After reading your comment above, I must say PK isn’t the only one in that boat.I would make some comment as to how I really feel about you, but I know Sean will only delete it and you won’t benefit from my insight anyway–seeing as Sean is more concerned about other people’s feelings than you seem to be.
How you have the nerve to come to this website and call us all a bunch of morons (which is really what you are doing) is beyond me. You and your cronies are the ones drowning in error. Anyone who dares to accept man’s opinions over the Bible or SOP isn’t to be trusted to define truth for anyone.
Too straight-forward in my comment? Trust me, I have restrained myself admirably. If you only knew….
Southern Adventist University opens Origins Exhibit
Further to my comment on skeptism and our professors, I’ve got to tell you that I found Prof Kent to be extremely annoying in his comments on EGW. He seems to think that she is an embarrassment to the church when she speaks on Science.
Personally I find people who dis her to be the embarrassment to the church. I really don’t see how they dare to contradict and mock God’s prophet. By doing this they undermine a lot of our church’s beliefs to outsiders as well as church members. God will hold them accountable for that.
Furthermore, David’s unpublished manuscript plus other books I have read on archaeology have reported skeletons of the type that EGW mentions. Also found were artifacts such as huge iron bedsteads made for and buried with kings of huge stature.
Just because you haven’t done your research, PK, don’t jump to the conclusion the evidence isn’t there. It’s there, all right, and you make yourself look a little foolish for not knowing about it.
Southern Adventist University opens Origins Exhibit
David Read said:
“Ellen White’s statements about larger antediluvian life forms are well attested with regard to many different types of flora and fauna. They’re not even controversial…
Hi David,
As you know, I took advantage of your kind offer and I read your manuscript as well as I purchased 3 of your books, one for me, one for my sisters, and one for the church library. It took me a week to finish the book, and I and my sisters are very impressed with it. My one sister calls it “one incredible book”. It has answered a lot of the questions we had on the subject of evolution vs creation science, and, yes, I believe we (you and I and my sisters) are on the same page in our beliefs. We have immensely enjoyed discussing the various aspects of the subject as we read. It makes perfect sense to us.
I still have a couple of questions–new ones will probably always keep popping up–but I would say you have covered the subject admirably. Thanks so much for this book.
I agree with Elder Wilson, this is something every Adventist should read. In my opinion it should be used as required reading for science courses. It is exactly the way I would want science courses in the universities to treat the Creation/evolution debate in the classroom. And if the professors at LSU and the other SDA institutions would do this we wouldn’t be constantly losing our young people and, for that matter, our professors, to skeptisism.
Thank God someone has the courage to publish the truth and expose error.
God Bless you, David.
Southern Adventist University opens Origins Exhibit
Hi Sean and Bill,
I am wondering if the difference of opinion here is due to varying definitions of the word ‘science’. As we all know there is true science and there is worldly psuedo-science.
If Bill’s understanding of ‘science’ in this case is actually worldly psuedo-science, then he is correct in not wanting any truth to be compromised with it.
From Sean’s post, I believe he is referring to true science, which is definitely part of our beliefs on origins and is well supported by the Bible and SOP, as Sean admirably demonstrated.
Not having seen the exhibit myself, I cannot comment on whether or not they are mixing psuedo-science into it. (Perhaps a few of you posters out there can see the exhibit and report back to us.) Knowing the general philosophy of SAU, I would be surprised if they did.
Their goal is “to provide scientific evidence that substantiates the Bible’s account of creation.” Sounds good to me.
They also say: “Religion and science don’t need to be at odds.” And that is true when you are referring to true science, which I believe they are.
However, I do understand Bill’s reaction in that these days when people use the word ‘science’ without qualification it so often means evolutionary pseudoscience, that we tend to be suspicious.
I think, Bill, that in this case we don’t need to worry. I believe SAU’s heart is in the right place and I am so glad that at least one of our institutions is willing to stand up and be counted on the side of Creation, even though they will probably draw much criticism from the ‘scientific’ community as well as from the TEs in their own church.
God bless them for their fidelity to Him. And may God strengthen them to meet the onslaught that is most likely to follow, is my prayer for them.
