Comment on La Sierra schism widens by Stephen Vicaro.
“Seeing the failure of his efforts to crush out the truth by persecution, Satan had again resorted to the plan of compromise which led to the great apostasy and the formation of the Church of Rome. He had induced Christians to ally themselves, not now with pagans, but with those who, by their devotion to the things of this world, had proved themselves to be as truly idolaters as were the worshipers of graven images. And the results of this union were no less pernicious now than in former ages; pride and extravagance were fostered under the guise of religion, and the churches became corrupted. Satan continued to pervert the doctrines of the Bible, and traditions that were to ruin millions were taking deep root. The church was upholding and defending these traditions, instead of contending for “the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.” Thus were degraded the principles for which the Reformers had done and suffered so much.” (Great Controversy, page 299)
Stephen Vicaro Also Commented
La Sierra schism widens
Adventism is not about incorporating all the worlds belief systems. It is about Biblical truth. Just look at what happened throughout the Old Testament when God’s people tried to “mix” their beliefs and culture with the nations around them. God warned them not to do that. If we dilute our faith and doctrine we cease to have a purpose and we will disolve.
La Sierra schism widens
Adventism is not about incorporating all the worlds belief systems. It is about Biblical true. Just look at what happened throughout the Old Testament when God’s people tried to “mix” their beliefs and culture with the nations around them. God warned them not to do that. If we dilute our faith and doctrine we cease to have purpose and will disolve.
La Sierra schism widens
I notice that everyone who seems to accept and promote a theistic evolutionary (TE) viewpoint never actually gets down to the bottom line: HOW ARE WE SAVED?
Please, take the opportunity to answer the dominant question in my previous two comments. Honestly, there is no argument for merging Adventism with TE. If you can explain logically to me how we are saved by the atoning blood of Christ without being a literal, six-day creationist, please do so in simple, no-uncertain terms.
Once a person accepts TE as fact, that person must either become a deist or an atheist. Which are you? We cannot just change the definition of Adventism based on our viewpoint. I cannot just decide that from now on I am going to start calling myself a physician and begin seeing patients. If I did so I would be arrested. Nor can I put on a police uniform and walk into the local precinct expecting the chief to give me a squad car.
The word â€œAdventistâ€ means something. No one is forcing anyone to be an Adventist. Why not just be logical and call it what it really is?
If I believed that the Bible was not true concerning its statements about origins I would not be an Adventist. It would be unethical and pointless. I converted to Adventism 19 years ago because I believe the Word of God and this church is the only option for someone who believes that Bible 100%. If you donâ€™t believe in the whole Bible, why would you be a Seventh-day Adventist? If the Bible is not true, and one day we are going to all suddenly be enlightened by naturalistic thinking, then the Adventist church will become meaningless and we will disolve as a people.
I am trying to understand this paradox. I have never met a convert to Adventism who was a theistic evolutionist. I think that theistic evolutionists who want to call themselves Adventists probably were brought up in the church without ever actually buying into it; never a full commitment to Christ. I say this because if you were a convert and you decided that the Bible was filled with false statements you would just leave the church. You would have somewhere to go, back to your former life. I think that TE’s who call themselves Adventists don’t know what to do with themselves. They have nowhere to go back to except Adventism. Maybe they are afraid to go out into the real world. Maybe they falsely believe that they were “born” Adventists. The reality is that you have to choose to be one. Maybe they just like the “culture” of Adventism. What they fail to recognize is that they themselves are destroying the very culture they are so fervently attached to.
I am serious. Someone out there reconcile these two opposing viewpoints for me. Please read my first statement before commenting.
Martin, how are we saved?
Recent Comments by Stephen Vicaro
I believe in creation and I have no iidea what your imaginary circle is and see no relevance whatsoever..
I’m sorry Geanna, but there is no way that your views and arguments reflect that of a creationist!
For years, I have feared that Adventism is intellectually dead. No one has been willing to discuss our lack of scientific evidence for a recent Creation. And, here you are making sure that nothing will change.
Carl, again, we are talking about he Seventh-day Adventist “CHURCH.” We put a higher authority in what God has said, as opposed to what man says. Why do you think that the so called “discoveries” of athiests should be able to persuade Christians to abandon the Bibles clear statements, including the very words of Christ Himself? Should we also believe those same atheists when they tell us, “it is impossible to prove that there is a God, therefore we should assume that He does not exist”? If you want to hang with that crowd then please do! The next thing you might tell us is that God did not know how we came to be!
Were you asleep during this presentation that like Trenchard and Guy FULLY SUPPORTED THE TRADITIONAL BELIEFS OF THE CHURCH? Or did you decide that being highly selective with your examlpses would be more effective to support your claim that LSU is undermining Adventist faith?
I am sorry to say this Geanna, but I think that you were the one who was asleep during those lectures. Those guys spoke right over your head. You completely missed all of the subtleties of their heresy.
Why did you not mention the wonderful lecture by Webster, another religion faculty member who reassured us that every one of the following threats from science to the Adventist church can be met:
1. Threat to propitiation model of atonement â€“ if death is not â€œthe wages of sinâ€, but necessary to evolution-creation-life, then the whole purpose of salvation is lost. No fall, no Savior.
HOW? Please enlighten us on how these conflicting views, evolutionary origins and the atonement, can be met.
We don’t change our Biblical beliefs on theories based in scientific interpretation. The interpretations change too frequently for that.
If you really find no satisfaction in what the Seventh-day Adventist Church believes, then why are you one? I am certainly NEVER going to join the Masons, the Harry Potter’s Fan Club or the Communist party because I am diametrically opposed to what they stand for. Why would anyone insist on forcing themselves to be a part of an organization that it is fundamentally opposed to at its foundation, and then try to change it? That seems illogical for a group of people who claim to be so logically based.
The SDA Church is founded upon the Bible as the infallible Word of God, the Atonement of Christ as the solution to the death problem that our sins brought upon us, and that God is the Creator of all things Who can make something out of nothing without the necessity of the laps of time. No of these beliefs can cohabitate with theistic evolution.
Carl, please explain to me how we are saved if we are to accept geological interpretations that originated with atheists? Yes, it matters!
Virtually every one of you considers it fact that the speakers are undermining Adventist beliefs. But is your opinion a fact or is it a hypothesis?
I am really trying to understand your view. I mean this as gently as I can possibly state it. It appears that you really don’t know what the Seventh-day Adventist Church teaches at all. These professors would not just openly state, “The Bible cannot be trusted” or “Science is superior to the Bible.” However, everything they appear to be standing for undermines what the Bible and Spirit of Prophecy teach about origins.
Geanna, if you understood the original, you would recognize the counterfeit. You have not gotten a Christian education in the Biology department. And according to Fritz Guy’s demonstration you obviously have not gotten a Christian education in the Theology department either. This is not obvious to you because you do not have the foundation of the truth to guide you. I’m afraid my statements will only anger you more. I am sorry that you can’t see through the deception that LSU has fed you.