Comment on Jan Paulsen: 2004 vs 2009 by Rich Constantinescu.
Steve Billiter: Does administration work qualify one for living off the gospel, especially if they are not upholding it? Â
Brother Steve, Are you a member of a conference? If you are, does that conference qualify for your membership? If you are a member of a conference, that same conference qualifies for your tithe if it qualifies for your membership.
“A selfish withholding from God will tend to poverty in our own souls. Act your part, my brethren and sisters. God loves you, and He stands at the helm. If the conference business is not managed according to the order of the Lord, that is the sin of the erring ones. The Lord will not hold you responsible for it, if you do what you can to correct the evil. But do not commit sin yourselves by withholding from God His own property. ‘Cursed be he that doeth the work of the negligently,’ or deceitfully. When persons declare that they will not pay their tithes because the means are not used as they think they ought to be, will the elder of the church or the minister sympathize with the sinners? Will he aid the enemy in his work? Or will he, as a wise man, endued with knowledge, go to work to correct the vile, and thus remove the stumbling-block? but, brethren do not be unfaithful in your lot. Stand in your place. Do not, by your neglect of duty, increase our financial difficulties.” Special Testimonies, Series A, No. 1, pp. 27, 28 (Aug. 10, 1890) emphasis supplied.
Old Testament Revival
“But Jehoiada the priest took a chest, and bored a hole in the lid of it, and set it beside the altar, on the right side as one cometh into the house of the LORD: and the priests that kept the door put therein all the money that was brought into the house of the LORD.†2 Kings 12:9
Storehouse = temple
Keepers of storehouse = ministers of the LORD to God’s people
Old Testament Apostasy
“A son honoureth his father, and a servant his master: if then I be a father, where is mine honour? and if I be a master, where is my fear? saith the LORD of hosts unto you, O priests, that despise my name. And ye say, Wherein have we despised thy name? Ye offer polluted bread upon mine altar; and ye say, Wherein have we polluted thee? In that ye say, The table of the LORD is contemptible.†Malachi 1:6-7
“Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.†Malachi 3:8-10
Storehouse = mine house = temple; cf. Mark 11:17
Keepers of storehouse = keepers of the temple = ministers of the LORD
Are ALL ministers in a conference unworthy of tithe? Are ALL ministers in another worthy of tithe? What if Jehoida’s companions somehow were in apostasy as in Malachi’s time and it was withheld then as in Malachi’s time?
New Testament Apostasy
“But when the husbandmen saw him, they reasoned among themselves, saying, This is the heir: come, let us kill him, that the inheritance may be ours.†Luke 20:14
“And the chief priests and scribes sought how they might kill him; for they feared the people.†Luke 22:2
“And he looked up, and saw the rich men casting their gifts into the treasury. And he saw also a certain poor widow casting in thither two mites. And he said, Of a truth I say unto you, that this poor widow hath cast in more than they all: For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God: but she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had.†Luke 21:1-4
Treasury = Temple
Not wicked priests receiving but God.
New Testament Revival
“Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, And laid them down at the apostles’ feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need. And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, and of the country of Cyprus, Having land, sold it, and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles’ feet.†Acts 4:34-37
Storehouse = Church visible
Custodians of the storehouse = Ministers
Therefore in the Bible we see God’s storehouses and custodians, the church and the leadership, both in apostasy and in revival, where we are called to “cast in unto the offerings of God.†The visible church and leadership. (Acts 4:34-37)
Does God have a visible church on earth today? Yes. Revelation 10-11; Revelation 14:6-12; Revelation 12:17.
The remnant church today that keeps the commandments of God and has the faith of Jesus’ testimony is the Seventh-day Adventist church that came from bitter disappointment as did the Christian church. John 20:13; Revelation 10:10-11; Revelation 11:1; Daniel 7:13-14.
“Do not, by your neglect of duty, increase our financial difficulties.†ibid.
God bless,
Rich
Table of Contents
Rich Constantinescu Also Commented
BobRyan: Thus Ellen White argues that tithe funds redirected to unfunded ministries in the South, and to minister’s wives who elected to conduct their own independent ministries, and to retired ministers who were not being funded by the conference – none of those examples of “redirection†was a case of money not going to the Lord’s Storehouse according to Ellen White.
That is excellent material, Brother Bob. We may notice that, “none of these [three] examples of ‘redirection'” done or encouraged by E.G.W. was because of Conference apostasy or mismanagement of funds.
God loves you, and He stands at the helm. If the conference business is not managed according to the order of the Lord, that is the sin of the erring ones. The Lord will not hold you responsible for it, if you do what you can to correct the evil. But do not commit sin yourselves by withholding from God His own property. Special Testimonies, Series A, No. 1, pp. 27, 28 (Aug. 10, 1890) emphasis supplied.
The reason that justifies the said unusual pattern of giving in the midst of all the counsel given on this subject, both Biblically and through the testimony of the Spirit of God, is not leverage against our leaders.
God bless,
Rich
Steve Billiter: You used EGW like a sledgehammer accusing me of selfishness.
I pointed out three things with my February 21, 2010 post:
1. If a conference qualifies for a member, that same conference qualifies for the tithe of that member.
2. The SOP discourages the withholding of tithe from conferences if, “the conference business is not managed according to the order of the Lord.” Special Testimonies, Series A, No. 1, pp. 27, 28 (Aug. 10, 1890)
3. The Bible records church apostasies and revivals in the Old and New Testaments showing tithe under the approval and mandate of God being brought to visible church leaders. (Cf. 2 Kings 12:9; Malachi 1:6, 7; Malachi 3:8, 9, 10; Mark 11:17; Luke 20:14; Luke 22:2; Luke 21:1-2, 3-4; Acts 4:34, 35, 36, 37)
What I post, I post for everyone to see. I’m sorry if I offended anyone with what I see as plain truth. There are faithful mixed with unfaithful ministers and workers. Increasing, “our financial hardships” should not be our business, however good may be our intentions. Ibid.
Blood transfusions must happen between one body and another as tithe was sent in special circumstances to other places but only in special circumstances, and not as a solution for disease.
God bless,
Rich
Steve Billiter: Your condemning words are not appreciated.
I believe the counsel of Special Testimonies, Series A, No. 1, pp. 27, 28 (Aug. 10, 1890) but cannot accept credit for it. Scripture evidence that the redirection/withholding of tithe from the church-visible is encouraged by reason of apostasy would be relevant to damage-control if that is a proposed method.
God bless,
Rich
Recent Comments by Rich Constantinescu
Intelligent Design – Science or Religion?
Thank you Sean. Very helpful information. Praise God.
God bless,
Rich
The Reptile King
Kent debuted here at ET two years ago with proclamations that there was no evidence that the theory of evolution was taught at LSU but since has modified his evolution-free period to the last 1.5 years. He has threatened to leave time after time but never did. Nor has he stopped reminding us us he is persecuted and misunderstood.
Kent: “Bob, you’ve hardened your heart and gone mad. You wouldn’t know “truth†if it smacked you between the eyes. You’ve proven to every reader here that you are not “in Christ.†Turn off your computer, throw your modem in garbage, and save your soul before it is consumed with hatred and falsehood.â€
Rich then noted that Kent shouldn’t be too upset about people not taking him as seriously as he would like because Kent came here pretending to not be an Adventist but it turned out he actually was an Adventist. The kind that doesn’t see much to worry about administration using vulgarity, drinking alcohol and evading authority albeit.
It is a little amusing that an observation that Kent tried to make readers think he wasn’t Adventist and the unacceptable tone of his ad hominem post towards Bob (not like the posts he harvested of Bob’s) is met by more ad hominem and – of all things – an accusation of ad hominem. I cannot think of many better text-book examples of projection.
However, credit where credit is due. Kent is persevering and he did let Bob keep his computer even though he made him throw away his modem. A nice scholar-to-scholar gesture or perhaps a typo yet short of the camaraderie we were waiting to see.
God bless,
Rich
The Reptile King
Kent apparently does not realize he lost some of us when he stormed in to Educate Truth two years ago ranting and waving, “If I were an Adventist, I’d be ashamed to be one of you!” The fuss Kent put up made some here ask why an outsider was so upset about the Adventists not “representing”? When the shame game didn’t work Kent stormed out, stormed in, stormed out again (and again).
Some of us wondered, why is Kent so interested? Is he for lack of a better strategy trying to corner ET in any way he can in this case by shame and blame? Is he playing whatever side he can to get his advantage? Some of us asked directly if he was after all an Adventist, to which Kent irately responded, “as to the question of whether I’m an Adventist or not … it makes no difference.”
We have been for some time more than beginning to see the truth in that statement. Therefore Kent truly should not be upset when some people don’t take seriously his apology of, “I also am a Creationist.” Trust is built and the foundation is missing.
Here is recent gem towards a “fellow creationist”:
Kent says, “Bob, you’ve hardened your heart and gone mad. You wouldn’t know “truth†if it smacked you between the eyes. You’ve proven to every reader here that you are not “in Christ.†Turn off your computer, throw your modem in garbage, and save your soul before it is consumed with hatred and falsehood.”
Hatred indeed. Those who stand for what they believe are, understandably, a mystery and great cause of perplexity to Kent usually worth many hours of his insight and forethought on his computer and modem. That last post apparently is not the fruit of taking enough time to cover one’s tracks.
God bless,
Rich
The Reptile King
Kent, I was not primarily quoting EGW as an authority. I only noted that if someone quotes one portion of EGW writings as authoritative about the supposed disvalue of the “deductions of science” being evidence for or against a point of faith, they should be free to accept other parts of her writings which make it clear that science is not opposed to God’s Word. I do agree that the conflict is not between science and faith but only with the deductions of science and the conclusions of the natural, rebellious, un-renewed heart. EGW never opposed science. She opposed as the Bible says, “science falsely so-called.”
Our colleges all have students from non-Adventist persuasions. The world is invited to and attends all our other schools. They have a right to know what we are teaching if we are bearing false witness.
God bless,
Rich
The Reptile King
Kent, you either missed or ignored the point. The point was and is, if someone would take EGW as saying “deductions of science” means there is no false science, just one true science that is totally contradictory to the Bible and we must choose to live in blind faith without it that is wholly inconsistent with the other many statements by the same author who talks about true science revealing God whereas false science doesn’t.
Your knot is easily untied. An enemy has done this.
God bless,
Rich
