Ken said – here is my suggestion. The folks …

Comment on Former LSU student letter reveals professor’s agenda by BobRyan.

Ken said –

here is my suggestion. The folks that support Sean should move to create a chair in creation science at all the Adventists universities to counter the teaching of evolution. Appoint Sean as a visiting professor to set up curriculum. Get the support of Ted Wilson and the GC to do so.

Sean, Shane, Bob, Wes, etc. What do you thinks of this as a course of action?

As SAU’s professor Spencer, and Southwestern’s Chadwick and others at LLU and AU etc – illustrate, we have good science going forward and doing research to demonstrate the evidence in favor of creation science.

However what we seem to lack (as you point out) is the coordinated deliberate pro-creation-science promotion/debate/evangelism intentionally institutionalized as a key componant of all of our universities.

As per my favorate annecdotal illustration recently – let us take a page from evolution evangelists over there at “Pandas Thumb” –

here they respond to the LSU Board of director “news” that LSU supports YEC –

Panda’s Thumb article:

At first glance, it is confusing that this is news. Those of us who are familiar with the history of creationism and have read Ronald Numbers’ classic The Creationists, and learned that the Seventh-Day Adventists were virtually the only fundamentalists who produced major advocates supporting belief in a young earth and global flood in the early 20th century – based on the literalist visions of Adventist founder and prophetess Ellen White. It was only in the 1960s that the young-earth/global view became dominant within American fundamentalism/conservative evangelicalism in general, primarily through the efforts of Henry Morris and John Whitcomb in The Genesis Flood.

Due to the above, it would be natural to assume that if anyone dependably takes a stauch YEC position, it would be the Seventh Day Adventists. The Adventists and their Geoscience Research Center supplied most of the creationist expert witnesses in the 1981 McLean vs. Arkansas trial, and the official position of the church seems to be unambiguous

In fact Adventists are known for being the first guys out of the gate on this subject when it comes to evidence for creation as opposed to pabulumist arguments for evolutionism.

in Christ,


BobRyan Also Commented

Former LSU student letter reveals professor’s agenda

I teach professional communications at a public university. Many of my colleagues are agnostics, if not outright atheists. Their ‘god’ is science, and they are quite vocal about it. Well, that is to be expected at an institution of the world. I know in Whom I believe. What is distressing is to see the world’s teachings have such a stronghold in our own universities. We have chipped away at our beliefs: creation, the 2300 days, prophecy, the divinity of Jesus. And who will God hold accountable? The watchmen on the walls have fallen asleep, and their slumber has been going on for many, many years. I read our publications and I am struck by the post-Modern views and philosophies voiced by our church and school leaders.

Indeed it is a time for the elders at the gates of the temple to sigh and moan over the abominations being dragged into the church as Ezek 9 points out. However the good news is that the church at the GC session in Atlanta has finally taken a stand as if to meet this issue head on. And our new GC president has stated his mission/goal to address the evolution problem as one of his high priority objectives – this year.

Now is the time for all of the saints to stand together – to lift up our leaders in prayer and to voice our support for them to our conference leadership.

in Christ,


Former LSU student letter reveals professor’s agenda
This letter from 2004 and then the petition from 2004 – describe a picture at LSU that goes far beyond neglect and mismanagement. It was an outright agenda to undermine the truth that SDAs are committed to promote before the World.

In this letter we see Fritz Guy, McCloskey and Geraty actually working in tandem. A coordinated team effort with each person acting their part to circle the wagons in defense of their common objective. Whether they did this as a result of backroom closed-door planning sessions or they “just so happened” to do it — either way the students did not stand a chance.

But eventually the truth would come to light.

in Christ,


To stand in defense of truth and righteousness when the majority forsake us, to fight the battles of the Lord when champions are few–this will be our test. At this time we must gather warmth from the coldness of others, courage from their cowardice, and loyalty from their treason.–5T 136 (1882). {LDE 180.4}

Former LSU student letter reveals professor’s agenda

I have been following this for some time off & on. The reason I am interested is that Walla Walla College has a Professor that is in charge of the engineering deptartment that has caused a family member to loose faith in the church for the same reason(evolution).

The NPUC president ordered a “house cleaning” of Walla Wall a number of years ago in the religion and sciences departments to deal with the problem of evolutionism – and so about that time some of the Walla Walla problems transfered to LSU where they apparently found a sacrifice-all-for-evolutionism agenda welcomed.

It is news to me that Walla Walla is now considering a turn back to that old failed model. (Though they have been deathly silent on this subject, on this board so far – I have still been hoping the best for them.). I know some of the people there today and am certain that the ones I know believe in a literal 7 day creation week less than 10,000 years ago.

in Christ,


Recent Comments by BobRyan

Supreme Court Decision on Church Employment Case

Mack Ramsy:: : but the one thing we know for certain is that it was designed to change. There are so many back up and redundancies designed to make whatever changes that DNA faces to be profitable for the organism, or if their deleterious to ensure they don’t damage the subsequent generation (yes there are very complex methods for doing this) The immune system in fact does it intentionally.

Obviously the references above to “designed” and “intention” could not be overlooked by the objective unbiased reader applying a bit of critical thinking to the topic. And so my response below merely states the obvious point of agreement on a part of that post.

No wonder the application of a bit of critical thinking just then – demands that we conclude from your remarks above – that you are an example of an evolutionist that is strongly in favor of Intelligent Design. I too favor I.D.

Mack Ramsy:
Obviously the references abov

I don’t believe in ID as it’s traditionally defined. I believe that God created a system designed to evolve.

Obviously the references abov
In your earlier statement you claimed that system was designed with “redundancy and backup” features. That is not something rocks, gas and water could ever do – hence the term “Intelligent Design”.

But perhaps you have access to more highly advanced rocks, gas and water?

Also you mention “intention” as if the immune system was deliberately designed with an end goal in view.

As it turns out – it is those “intention” and “Intelligent Design” aspects (so key to your response above) that are at the very heart of I.D. enabled science were we have the freedom to “follow the data where it leads” even if it leads to a conclusion in favor of design that does not fit atheist dogma about there “being no god”.

how odd then that you seem to later back pedal on your prior observation.

Thus you seem to be in somewhat of a self-conflicted position at the moment.

At least given the content of your statements about “intent” and “backup systems” and “redundancy” designed into the systems themselves (even to the point of “error correction” as we see in the case of nucleic polypeptide amino acid chains and their chiral orientation).

Of course all that just gets us back here

Mack&#032Ramsy: My language in this forum is not formal. Try not to get caught up in semantic issues.

Out of curiosity is that statement supposed to provide a solution to just how it is that something “not designed” is able to exhibit unique design characteristics such as “back up systems” – “redundancy” – error correcting mechanism and an “immune system with intention” regarding a specific outcome or goal?

No doubt the study of biology most definitely shows us that such things are present “in nature” based on “observations in nature” – and so you are right to state it as you did.

So if you are then going to double back and reject what you just affirmed – what do you have by way of “explanation” for such a self-conflicted course?

Reaching for a solution of the form – “Pay no attention to my actual words if they do not serve to deny I.D.” does not provide as satisfactory resolution to the problem as you may have at first supposed.

in Christ,


Strumming the Attached Strings
@David Read:

Erv Taylor is not “afraid” to post here – but he is “Afraid” to have well thought out views posted on AToday that do not flatter his agenda.

That was not news right?

in Christ,


Michigan Conference vs. LSU – Right Wing Politics or Truth in Advertising?
@John J.:

John&#032J&#046: The fact remains, any decision direction or policy made by a church, conference, union or GCEC can be reversed or changed by those they serve.

Agreed and the fact that the constituency are not voting to reverse it – is a sign that this is not merely the views of the Administration in Michigan.

As for hierarchy – there is no doctrinal authority in the administrators.

And as for administrative hierarchy – the GC leadership has no authority to dismiss rogue teachers which is one of the reasons that this particular meltdown at LSU seems to go on and on and on. It slows at times and it speeds up at other times – but the fire is not simply put out.

in Christ,


A “Christian Agnostic”?

ken:: Let’s continue shall we. You posit that Adam and Eve were producing telomerase as adults as a result of eating fruit from the tree of life. Would you agree that the production of adult telomerase was a direct result of the environment or did the gene(s) affecting production of the a enzyme as adults mutate in their progeny?

1. I never stated whether the fruit from the Tree of Life provided the telemerase enzyme or simply provided a trigger enzyme/protein that caused Adam and Eve to produce Telemerase. Either way the end result was the same.

2. The salient point is that we have a known mechanism that affects the aging of cells starting with new borns.

This is simply “observation in nature” given in response to your question about an observed mechanism in humans for the 900 year life span the Bible mentions.

It is hard to “do the study” without having them under observation.

1. But it is not hard to see the gradual decline in ages over time.

2. It is not hard to see the Bible declare that access to the Tree of Life was the determining factor.

3. It is not hard to see that even in humans today – the ability remains for us to produce telemerase – but we quickly lose that ability.

4. It is not hard to see what effect that has on the telomeres of infants.

The list of knowns for this mechanism are far more impressive than the “I imagine a mechanism whereby static genomes acquire new coding genes not already present and functioning in nature and that this happens for billions of years”.

Ken: Hi BobWe are making good progress!Thanks for your admitting thaf we do not have Adam and Eve or their progeny under observation to do the study.

My pleasure.

Let’s look at the empirical results of your observation. There is no physical evidence that the progeny or descendants lived to 900 years, right? Thus there is no physical evidence that the tree of life provided longevity through the increased production or activation of telermerase right?

There is evidence that a mechanism does exist whereby access to an enzyme would in fact affect the aging process of human cells.

That mechanism is observed in nature to be related to the enzyme Telemerase.

There is a ton of evidence that food contains enzymes and proteins and that the human body can produce enzymes in response to the presence of trigger proteins and enzymes.

It is irrefutably true that humans still today produce telemerase in the case of infants just before birth. Impossible to deny it – though you seem to want to go down that dead end road.

You asked about the “mechanism” that can be observed today that would account for long ages of life recorded in the Bible.

You now seem to be pulling the classic “bait and switch” asking for the video of the people living for long ages before the flood.

Nice try —

As I said before – your method is along the lines of grasping at straws in a true “any ol’ exuse will do” fashion.

in Christ,


SDA Darwinians compromise key church doctrines
Rev 21 does not say the planet has no light – it says the City has no NEED of light from the Sun.

The inconvenient deatils point to the fact that the New Earth will have a Sun and Moon but the New Jerusalem will have eternal day due to the light of God’s presence.

This is not the hard part.

in Christ,