Comment on Mrs. White: “Don’t send your children to…” by Sean Pitman.
It is interesting and even entertaining to make such speculations about what animals were or were not genetically manipulated or what may or may not have been involved in such manipulation – or even exactly what type of mixing or “amalgamation” Mrs. White was referring to in certain passages (the White Estate seems to favor the mixing in marriage idea regarding human “amalgamation”, which seems at least plausible given what little there is to work with).
Note that, for example, Mrs. White specifically uses the word “amalgamation” metaphorically in the following passage describing the union of God’s people with the world:
“Those who profess to be followers of Christ, should be living agencies, cooperating with heavenly intelligences; but by union with the world, the character of God’s people becomes tarnished, and through amalgamation with the corrupt, the fine gold becomes dim” (Review and Herald, Aug. 23, 1892; see also The Spirit of Prophecy, vol. 2, p. 144 and The Upward Look, p. 318).
The problem is that we just don’t have a very reliable way of determining the answers to these questions with high predictive value. As things currently stand, all of these thoughts are heavily based on a large dose of speculation without much solid evidentiary basis. I think this should be admitted up front. It does our position no service to claim too much or to base too much on such large leaps into very thin air… claiming that this or that animal within the fossil record was the clear result of human genetic manipulation before the flood and for that reason was not saved on the Ark (esp. given that we have some pretty terrifying animals that evidently did make it onto the Ark (crocodiles, for example, can get pretty huge and ferocious you know – and seem very ideally designed as cold-blooded predators).
Just be careful in how you come across and how much weight you give to such speculations…
Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com
Sean Pitman Also Commented
Mrs. White: “Don’t send your children to…”
For further clarification:
I’m not saying that David Read is wrong. I’m just saying that his theories aren’t based on very solid evidence as far as I am able to tell. As such, they don’t seem to me to be all that much more reliable that just-so stories or conjecture (similar to the just-so story telling used to back up popular evolutionary theories). However interesting, they simply don’t have all that much predictive value. While certainly within the realm of possibility, the likelihood that these stories are true cannot be determined with any significant degree of accuracy nor can they be clearly tested in a falsifiable manner.
Even the SoP statements he uses aren’t very clear as to what, exactly, Mrs. White was actually saying with regard to what she meant in different contexts by the word “amalgamation”. We can surmise all day long, but even David admits that his conclusions are dependent upon a great deal of conjecture. For me, this isn’t very useful as anything to base much on beyond whimsical stories about what might have happened on the level of a novel or some other such fanciful story that is very loosely based on real life.
In short, I think there is far better scientific evidence upon which to base our faith than these just-so stories and large leaps of imagination…
Hope this helps.
Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com
Mrs. White: “Don’t send your children to…”
@David Read:
There are degrees of “class-bending†I suppose. Simply giving a creature with features usually associated with different groups of animals the name “monotreme†does not change this. Looking only at fossils makes this job all the much more difficult and subjective. I may be “obtuse†in my reticence to declare an obvious blurring of boundaries between most animals in the fossil record vs. living animals, but so be it. I think it contrary to the cause I stand for to be too overzealous with theories that you yourself describe as being “highly speculative.â€
Sean Pitman
http://www.DetectingDesign.com
Mrs. White: “Don’t send your children to…”
@pauluc:
A faithful reading of the text requires that one read in context – something you are not doing. The Bible is its own interpreter. You are placing an interpretation onto the text which is contrary to the clear context in which it was written and contrary to how the biblical writers themselves interpreted all mankind as being of “one bloodâ€.
You may believe that this is preposterous because you are seeing the world from a modern naturalistic perspective but the issue is was it preposterous to the mind of the person writing this passage? If you think it was you have not been paying attention to much ancient or indeed more recent literature. What precisely were the centaurs and medusa in greek mythology? What of the animal human hybrids that we have captured in stone from the egyptian empire that were likely part of Moses heritage? Have you not read Miltons Paradise Lost a book with many parallels to the great controversy; what was the provenance of the guardian of the pit into which the Devil was cast after the war in Heaven? How did the devil look upon the first woman?
What are you talking about? The notion of human-animal hybrids and even hybrids between humans and “the gods†is certainly part of mythology, but it is clearly not part of the thinking of the Biblical authors. Also, Milton’s Paradise Lost, while certainly having many parallels, is not supported in many details by the writings of Mrs. White who very clearly explained the whole concept of “sons of God vs. daughters of menâ€. Did you not read the above-listed commentary in this regard?
Sean Pitman
http://www.DetectingDesign.com
Recent Comments by Sean Pitman
Conrad Vine Continues to Attack Church Leadership
I think that there can be a reasonable combination of the best of modern medicine as well as the best of healthful living and natural remedies such as exercise, sunlight, vitamin D, “forest bathing”, good sleep, vegan or at least a vegetarian diet, etc…
Conrad Vine Continues to Attack Church Leadership
You opted not to get vaccinated during the pandemic, for whatever reason, but did not advise others to do the same. That’s fine. I think you probably increased your own risk a bit, but that’s far better than giving medical advice to others when you don’t know for sure that you’re right – especially for those who were at higher risk than you. It’s also good that you supported others who did choose to get vaccinated.
As far as SDA hospitals and organizations, I agree that there has been some drift from the ideal. I’m not happy that so many non-SDAs are hired to work in and to be leaders. I’m also disappointed that there isn’t a lot more emphasis, direction, and teaching with regard to healthful living. There are some who are doing this, like Dr. Roger Seheult. However, there does seem to be a lack of an organized or official emphasis on how to living healthful so as to avoid having to use so many medications for chronic conditions that are largely self-inflicted. Now, I do sympathize that quick fixed and pills are what most patients want. Most doesn’t want to give up their back health habits, so doctors often just give up and give their patients what they want. Still, this does not excuse the lack of effort along these lines in our hospitals and medical schools. Also, more should be done to spread the Gospel Message in our hospitals as well…
Conrad Vine Continues to Attack Church Leadership
Thank you for your kind words and support. I really appreciate it very much!
Conrad Vine Continues to Attack Church Leadership
I’m fine with open dialogue, but that includes presenting and at least understanding things from the GC’s perspective and why the significant majority of SDAs and GC delegates believe that the GC did the right thing during the pandemic and with the original 2015 statement on vaccines.
Conrad Vine Continues to Attack Church Leadership
So, it’s impossible to be a doctor who promotes the best of modern medicine as well as the best natural remedies and still be a follower of Jesus? Really? Not even Ellen White could be saved then…
