Comment on Are LSU professors breaking the 8th commandment? by Sean Pitman M.D..
BobRyan: The evolutionists like to imagine that a small reservoir “collects more water than it can hold – until it naturally becomes a larger stronger reservoirâ€. My argument (which is the one you find in physics and in Asimov’s statements) is that the small reservoir simply “leaks and overflows†and if excess water is poured in — the small reservoir simply breaks apart — which is comparable to frying that precious little single celled animal in the blazing sun, turning up the heat, turning up the UV light intensity etc in an effort to turn a single celled animal into a multicelled animal.
No “appeal to the sun†will solve that problem for them as it turns out, and that has been my point. Thus I never argue “not enough thermodynamic energy in the sun to do something here on earthâ€.
The problem is with the common, but mistaken, creationist argument that the theory of evolution violates the Second Law of Thermodynamics. This simply isn’t true. The ToE does not violate the 2LoT.
While you are correct in stating that adding additional raw thermodynamic energy from the Sun to a bunch of sludge isn’t going to do anything but make the sludge hot, you are mistaken to say that the sludge doesn’t evolve into a higher form of existence because of a lack of thermodynamic energy or because of some sort of locally increasing thermodynamic entropy. That’s simply not true.
I agree with you that it doesn’t evolve novel higher level functionality beyond what it started with to any significant degree (beyond very low levels of functional complexity), but for a different reason – i.e., meaningful/functional informational entropy.
You are confusing functional information with thermodynamic entropy. They aren’t the same thing…
So, in short, your conclusion is right, but your argument isn’t… You’d be on a much firmer foundation and it would be much harder for evolutionists to effectively discredit you if you accepted the potential of the 2LoT for the ToE, while challenging the creative potential of the ToE based on functional informational entropy. I know this because I was once in your shoes. It took me a fair amount of time to really understand the difference between thermodynamic entropy and structural or functional informational entropy. They really aren’t the same thing. Give it some thought….
Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com
Sean Pitman M.D. Also Commented
Are LSU professors breaking the 8th commandment?
David Kendall, BMus, MA says:
Hi Shane,
I am not sure you can make a strong connection between the statement in the excerpt and common ancestry. DNA research does point to varying degrees of relatedness among species. This does not have to conflict with a recent six day creation, though some may make the argument that it must.
What it argues for, and what Grismer clearly believes, is the idea that all life is related through process of common descent by innumerable tiny modifications from a common ancestor life form – a process that required hundreds of millions of years of time.
This notion strikes directly at the concept of the relatedness of all life because of its source in a common Designer of all the basic “kinds” of life on this planet, produced during a literal 6-day creation week in recent history.
Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com
Are LSU professors breaking the 8th commandment?
Ron Nielsn: @Sean Pitman M.D.: Sean, I am not a geologist, and I haven’t read much about this, but your argument doesn’t make logical sense. Where does the sediment that is “washed off†go, except down slope, and as long as the uplift is equal or greater than the erosion rate, there is always going to be sediment at the top
Your argument assumes that all rock is sedimentary rock – it isn’t. Only a thin layer of sedimentary rock covers the underlying granitic or metamorphic rock. So, the obvious question is, how has the very thin layer of sedimentary rock avoided being completely washed off of the underlying non-sedimentary rock if it has in fact been exposed, as an erosional surface, for tens of millions of years?
You do see how the argument for continued mountain uplift does not solve this problem? – right?
Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com
Are LSU professors breaking the 8th commandment?
BobRyan: Thus evolutionists who quickly admit that molecule-to-human-mind evolutionism (storytelling) requires “a massive DECREASE in entropy†as the net result over billions of years (at the local isolated system level of course )– are leaving themselves with no place to go.
Not true. A local decrease in thermodynamic entropy is possible using the Sun’s energy to produce the local effect (at the expense of an increase in the Earth-Sun thermodynamic entropy of course).
Recall that in the case of the dropping ball, and the iron rusting and the water evaporating — the definion for “universe†that was needed to observe those examples demonstrating entropy was simply “an isolated and localized system and it’s immediate surroundings†EVEN if that system is standing out in broad daylight (or in complete darkness). No need to “reach for the sun†before you can see the increase in entropy as iron oxidizes. Speaking of “oxidation demonstrating entropy†– our biology courses admit to that oxidation process as well.
You forget that the reverse of all these processes you use as examples of increases in local entropy can be reversed as well, by using energy derived from the Sun. The ball can be driven uphill, as can the water in the rivers that run downhill. Therefore, local reductions in entropy can be achieved by using the increase in entropy of the Earth-Sun system…
Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com
Recent Comments by Sean Pitman M.D.
After the Flood
Thank you Ariel. Hope you are doing well these days. Miss seeing you down at Loma Linda. Hope you had a Great Thanksgiving!
The Flood
Thank you Colin. Just trying to save lives any way I can. Not everything that the government does or leaders do is “evil” BTW…
The Flood
Only someone who knows the future can make such decisions without being a monster…
Pacific Union College Encouraging Homosexual Marriage?
Where did I “gloss over it”?
Review of “The Naked Emperor” by Pastor Conrad Vine
I fail to see where you have convincingly supported your claim that the GC leadership contributed to the harm of anyone’s personal religious liberties? – given that the GC leadership does not and could not override personal religious liberties in this country, nor substantively change the outcome of those who lost their jobs over various vaccine mandates. That’s just not how it works here in this country. Religious liberties are personally derived. Again, they simply are not based on a corporate or church position, but rely solely upon individual convictions – regardless of what the church may or may not say or do.
Yet, you say, “Who cares if it is written into law”? You should care. Everyone should care. It’s a very important law in this country. The idea that the organized church could have changed vaccine mandates simply isn’t true – particularly given the nature of certain types of jobs dealing with the most vulnerable in society (such as health care workers for example).
Beyond this, the GC Leadership did, in fact, write in support of personal religious convictions on this topic – and there are GC lawyers who have and continue to write personal letters in support of personal religious convictions (even if these personal convictions are at odds with the position of the church on a given topic). Just because the GC leadership also supports the advances of modern medicine doesn’t mean that the GC leadership cannot support individual convictions at the same time. Both are possible. This is not an inconsistency.
