@Bill Sorensen: It is true Sean, that God did not …

Comment on Revisiting God, Sky & Land by Fritz Guy and Brian Bull by Sean Pitman.

@Bill Sorensen:

It is true Sean, that God did not create the broken condition as you have affirmed and I agree.

None the less, it is God who creates human beings in this broken condition.

You’re talking out of both sides of your mouth Bill. You’re saying that God both did and did not create our broken condition?

Allowing basic laws of nature to function on this planet, independent of His will, is not the same thing as actively creating the broken condition of a baby born with leukemia… or any other defect that is the natural result of our separation from God.

And because of the broken condition, they are under the wrath of God. You may not like the enigma, but it is still true.

There is no enigma here. God is only responsible for the good things that still exist in this life. He is responsible for the creation of the breath of life, but not the painful defects of life. Childhood leukemia is simply not an “act of God”. It is the result of mindless natural mechanisms that act independent of God’s desire or will for us on this planet.

Sinful parents have sinful children. But not without God’s participation in the process.

God’s only participation in the process is in creating that which is good. Again, all things broken and evil are “of the enemy” – Matthew 13:27-28.

You make God out to be directly responsible, to one degree or another, for childhood leukemia and other such evils. It seems like you would call such evils, “acts of God”. I’m sorry, but you have a warped view of God and His will for us. He never desires that any child, or any adult for that matter, would suffer any form of harm or injury to mind, body, or soul. And, He does not aid in the process of random genetic mutations that do end up causing great pain and death to those that He dearly loves… or any other form of injury for that matter.

And thus, “I will put enmity between thee and the woman” is a super natural act of God’s grace in behalf of fallen man and not simply a natural part of human birth that would have taken place had Adam not sinned in the first place.

Indeed this is a very good supernatural gift on the part of God – the creation of our ability to recognize and hate evil. However, this is a good gift. It is not the same thing as a child getting leukemia – which would be a very very bad “gift”. The fact is that leukemia is the “natural” result of random genetic mutations that occur independent of God’s will or action for any child…

God declares, “I will put enmity.” This enmity is not naturally entertained.

That’s right, but leukemia is “naturally entertained”… as are all other injuries to the human race which are a natural consequence of our separation from God’s direct care and will for us.

You confuse the supernatural gifts of God, which are always good gifts, with the natural consequences of our separation from God, which are not “gifts” of God at all.

God creates babies in a state of sin but not without the possibility of changing that reality.

Can you even hear what you are saying? I can’t believe you just said that it is God who creates babies in a state of brokenness. Leukemia? This is an act of God? Really?

Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com

Sean Pitman Also Commented

Revisiting God, Sky & Land by Fritz Guy and Brian Bull
Consider the following comments from the E.G.. White Estate regarding the origin of disease, suffering and death:

Suffering, other than sickness due to neglect of physical laws, is also caused by Satan and not the deliberate intervention of God. On many occasions she reinforced the teaching of Jesus on this point…

Her teachings regarding the cause of death, as well as suffering, flowed from the big picture of the great controversy between God and Satan:

“It is true that all suffering results from the transgression of God’s law, but this truth had become perverted. Satan, the author of sin and all its results, had led men to look upon disease and death as proceeding from God—as punishment arbitrarily inflicted on account of sin… Sickness, suffering, and death are [the] work of an antagonistic power. Satan is the destroyer; God is the restorer.”

Ellen White, The Desire of Ages, p. 471. and The Ministry of Healing, p. 113

http://www.whiteestate.org/books/mol/Chapt7.html

So, again, neither the Bible nor Mrs. White see diseases, like childhood leukemia, as being the result of a deliberate act or intervention of God…

Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com


Revisiting God, Sky & Land by Fritz Guy and Brian Bull
@Ron:

Where talking about the ability to detect the need to invoke intelligent design to explain various phenomena that exist in nature – regardless of if the intelligent agent is God or your wife or some alien from Zorg.

The loaves of bread that Jesus made by Divine power were the obvious result of intelligent design. They looked like regular loaves of bread that your wife might make. No one could tell the difference by looking at them if they were placed side-by-side. Yet, one loaf would have been made by God and the other by your wife. The fact is that God can make what humans can make. What would be obvious, however, is that both loaves of bread required intelligence to produce. In other words, they weren’t the product of mindless process of nature or natural laws that had no access to deliberate intelligence.

In short, just because your wife’s intelligence is “natural” doesn’t mean that all natural processes have access to intelligence or that every natural phenomena requires intelligence to explain beyond the basic non-intelligent laws of nature.

Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com


Revisiting God, Sky & Land by Fritz Guy and Brian Bull
@Ron:

So, you think that if God is directly responsible for the death of anyone that He is therefore the direct cause of all sickness, disease, death, and destruction? Every natural disaster is God’s doing? – a miracle of Divine design and creative power?

Do you not see the difference between the miracle of something like Lazarus being raised from the dead and a tornado wiping out an entire town the other day in the Midwest?

Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com


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