Comment on Review of “The Naked Emperor” by Pastor Conrad Vine by Sean Pitman.
I’m all for effective natural remedies as well (Link). However, there’s also a time and place for various medications to heal or save lives in acute situations where there are no known better options. Regarding vaccines, in particular, they are not without their risks. However, the risk/reward ratio for the mRNA vaccines against COVID-19 heavily favored the reward side of the equation for most people and communities – particularly during the height of the pandemic. Of course, at the current time, now that most have been exposed to COVID-19, one way or another, the case for vaccines is still positive, but I would say it’s less of a slam dunk decision (Link).
Yes, Pastor Vine was removed as a delegate prior to this last GC session. I don’t know all of the details, but I assume it was because he was so outspoken and harsh against the leadership of the Church, and because he was promoting conspiratorial organizations that were spreading false and/or misleading information about COVID-19 and the mRNA vaccines. Was it a good decision to remove him from being a delegate for these reasons? Well, I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, it’s often best to allow as broad a spectrum of delegates as possible. On the other hand, there does come a point at which a particular delegate becomes so disruptive to the process of church government that it is best to remove that delegate.
As far as Adventist Risk becoming the “governing body” during the initial period of the pandemic, this is what legal council does – it advises members and churches as to the legal consequences of their actions. Sure, there were some churches that defied government and well as their own conference mandates to close their doors. Did they do the right thing? Personally, I don’t think so since, at the time this happened, they came across as being rebellious against reasonable requests by government and conference authorities to help slow down the spread of COVID-19, before the vaccines were available, so as to help reduce the burden on our national medical system. I know, that, as head elder in my own church, I supported the temporary closure of our church doors during the quarantine period for this very reason. It seemed to me as the most Christian thing to do given the situation we were in. We simply put our services online – which was a blessing.
As far as Elder Wilson’s remarks, I actually agree with you that it would have been better if he hadn’t said anything at this particular point… and just sent the motion to vote without any personal comments. In his position, I do think it would have come across better for him to have remained above the fray. That being said, he was still within his rights to make a personal comment along with the other delegates during the time of open discussion before the motion was sent for a vote.
Sean Pitman Also Commented
Review of “The Naked Emperor” by Pastor Conrad Vine
I fail to see where you have convincingly supported your claim that the GC leadership contributed to the harm of anyone’s personal religious liberties? – given that the GC leadership does not and could not override personal religious liberties in this country, nor substantively change the outcome of those who lost their jobs over various vaccine mandates. That’s just not how it works here in this country. Religious liberties are personally derived. Again, they simply are not based on a corporate or church position, but rely solely upon individual convictions – regardless of what the church may or may not say or do.
Yet, you say, “Who cares if it is written into law”? You should care. Everyone should care. It’s a very important law in this country. The idea that the organized church could have changed vaccine mandates simply isn’t true – particularly given the nature of certain types of jobs dealing with the most vulnerable in society (such as health care workers for example).
Beyond this, the GC Leadership did, in fact, write in support of personal religious convictions on this topic – and there are GC lawyers who have and continue to write personal letters in support of personal religious convictions (even if these personal convictions are at odds with the position of the church on a given topic). Just because the GC leadership also supports the advances of modern medicine doesn’t mean that the GC leadership cannot support individual convictions at the same time. Both are possible. This is not an inconsistency.
Review of “The Naked Emperor” by Pastor Conrad Vine
Thank you for this update. I really appreciate it and the courage it took to post this…
Review of “The Naked Emperor” by Pastor Conrad Vine
Again, it wasn’t Ted Wilson nor the members of ADCOM who voted down Zirkle’s motion – nor did they force or unduly coerce the vote of the delegates in Session. Also, it isn’t true that the vaccine issue hadn’t been adequately discussed for the benefit of the delegates – or that the delegates didn’t have already enough information to make an informed decision. I’d say that they were much more informed on this topic than Pastor Vine gives them credit for.
Now, I’ve very sorry you feel like you do and I can understand your honest confusion since what you’re hearing from anti-vax conspiracy theorists is truly scary stuff. However, the voices that you’re referencing truly are misleading you – telling you things that simply aren’t true. Your latest example of this, from Dr. James L. Marcum, is no better than Dr. Peter McCullough. He makes many claims that are simply false or misleading. Now, Dr. Marcum certainly comes across as very caring and kind, and I’m sure that he is. The only problem here is that he’s wrong – flat out wrong in what he’s telling you. And, this has resulted, no doubt, in a great many long-term injuries and deaths that could have been avoided. Kindness and sincerity isn’t enough here. True kindness will take the time to carefully investigate the actual weight of currently available scientific evidence and present it in an honest even-handed manner. That’s not what Drs. McCullough and Marcum have been doing – not at all.
In short, when your health and life are on the line, would you rather have a doctor with a wonderful bedside manner who isn’t giving you the best available information, or a doctor who may not be as smooth or delicate with his/her words, but who is actually giving you the best available information?
You see, I’m not trying to be mean or harsh here. I’m just truly trying to save lives and prevent long-term injuries. That’s what I’m trying to do. And, I’m sure you’re trying to do the same thing, and I appreciate that. It’s just that you don’t have good scientific evidence to back up your position…
Recent Comments by Sean Pitman
Conrad Vine Continues to Attack Church Leadership
You opted not to get vaccinated during the pandemic, for whatever reason, but did not advise others to do the same. That’s fine. I think you probably increased your own risk a bit, but that’s far better than giving medical advice to others when you don’t know for sure that you’re right – especially for those who were at higher risk than you. It’s also good that you supported others who did choose to get vaccinated.
As far as SDA hospitals and organizations, I agree that there has been some drift from the ideal. I’m not happy that so many non-SDAs are hired to work in and to be leaders. I’m also disappointed that there isn’t a lot more emphasis, direction, and teaching with regard to healthful living. There are some who are doing this, like Dr. Roger Seheult. However, there does seem to be a lack of an organized or official emphasis on how to living healthful so as to avoid having to use so many medications for chronic conditions that are largely self-inflicted. Now, I do sympathize that quick fixed and pills are what most patients want. Most doesn’t want to give up their back health habits, so doctors often just give up and give their patients what they want. Still, this does not excuse the lack of effort along these lines in our hospitals and medical schools. Also, more should be done to spread the Gospel Message in our hospitals as well…
Conrad Vine Continues to Attack Church Leadership
Thank you for your kind words and support. I really appreciate it very much!
Conrad Vine Continues to Attack Church Leadership
I’m fine with open dialogue, but that includes presenting and at least understanding things from the GC’s perspective and why the significant majority of SDAs and GC delegates believe that the GC did the right thing during the pandemic and with the original 2015 statement on vaccines.
Conrad Vine Continues to Attack Church Leadership
So, it’s impossible to be a doctor who promotes the best of modern medicine as well as the best natural remedies and still be a follower of Jesus? Really? Not even Ellen White could be saved then…
Conrad Vine Continues to Attack Church Leadership
If the human immune system were the “perfect mechanism” that God originally designed it to be, you’d be right. However, after ~6000 years of sin and decay, the human immune system is no longer what God originally designed it to be – as evidenced by the great many, even among healthy vegan SDAs, who died during the pandemic. Water and light therapies are great and are helpful as layers of protection, but for many, especially those over the age of 65, whey were not enough. The mRNA vaccines were very effective in providing an additional much needed layer of protection during the pandemic. Now, I’ve very glad that you did not get sick enough to require hospitalization and that you avoided long-term injuries and death during the pandemic, but many many others were not so fortunate.
