Comment on La Sierra University Granted Window to Show its Faithfulness to Church’s Creation Belief by Charles.
Bob
I recall my incredulity some years ago when I reviewed the letter written by:
Michael Zimmerman
Professor of Biology
Butler University
Prior to reading that letter, I was totally lukewarm on the topic of creation vs evolution. Yes, I was raised in the SDA church and took the creation story for granted.
It was not the letter itself that extracted my passion. It was the fact that thousands of “Christian” pastors and leaders had signed the horrible document.
In those days, I downloaded each and every section of the “pastors” – which also listed their denominational affiliations. It was with a cringe that I ran searches on “SDA” or “Adventist” – hoping not to see that a SDA pastor would have signed it. I did not find one in that day. Would I find one today if I ran the search again? I hope not but I no longer think that I could be so sure.
Much of the world has embraced the idea that we evolved from lower forms of life – which ultimately supposedly came from nothing? Why? I don’t know – the idea is not even logical to me. Logically, my own existence is the greatest evidence of the scriptural account of “God” Who created everything “miraculously”.
Sadly, those who deny their Creator by embracing this spurious notion, will be “lost” unless they find their way. A right relationship with God will bring to them to an understanding. It involves a spirit of submission and humbling before their Creator.
“…worship Him Who MADE Heaven and Earth…”
Here is the introduction to the “clergy letter” – written by an athiest biology professor who regards scripture as “beloved stories” that have some timeless value….
Has that old Dragon (Satan) gained some ground or what?
For too long, the misperception that science and religion are inevitably in conflict has created unnecessary division and confusion, especially concerning the teaching of evolution. I wanted to let the public know that numerous clergy from most denominations have tremendous respect for evolutionary theory and have embraced it as a core component of human knowledge, fully harmonious with religious faith.
In the fall of 2004, I worked with clergy throughout Wisconsin to prepare a statement in support of teaching evolution. We were called to action by a series of anti-evolution policies passed by the school board in Grantsburg, WI. The response was overwhelming. In a few weeks, nearly 200 clergy signed the statement, which we sent to the Grantsburg school board on December 16, 2004. Additionally, groups of educators and scientists sent letters to the Grantsburg School Board and to the Superintendent of Schools protesting these policies. In response to all of this attention, as well as the efforts of others, the Grantsburg School Board retracted their policies.
The outpouring of support from clergy around the country encouraged me to make this a nationwide project. If you want to read more about it or join us in sharing this important perspective, click here. Encourage your clergy to consider signing the statement and please feel free to link to these webpages.
The Clergy Letter Project has also sponsored annual Evolution Weekend events. These events provide an opportunity for congregations around the world to come together, in the way each feels most comfortable, to discuss the compatibility of religion and science. By doing so, we are educating thousands and elevating the world-wide discussion of this important topic. If your congregation would like to participate in an Evolution Weekend event, please contact me.
Most recently, The Clergy Letter Project has created a data base of scientists interested in working with clergy members to answer questions about all aspects of evolution. To view this growing list, click here (If you are a scientist and would like to be added to our data base, please send me a note.)
Sincerely,
Michael Zimmerman
Professor of Biology
Butler University
Send your comments to me at mz@butler.edu
Table of Contents
Charles Also Commented
La Sierra University Granted Window to Show its Faithfulness to Church’s Creation Belief
I think this is good.
Maybe a bit on the dramatic side but accurate.
We live in the time of the end and little time is left.
Conspiracy Theories? “End of World?” If so, does much else matter?
This does not fit into any model of evolution – which would predict that we will continue to evolve toward perfection and someday create our own “Heaven”.
The issue is: What do you accept as true and how will you respond?
For me at this time, nothing else does much matter – except that I could persuade anyone – especially those I love – to be on the correct side of the issues.
La Sierra University Granted Window to Show its Faithfulness to Church’s Creation Belief
So we are all on the same page?
“TE and scripture are mutually exclusive principles?”
La Sierra University Granted Window to Show its Faithfulness to Church’s Creation Belief
I think that our (humans) limitations to the finite sometimes cause us problems. It tries to demand that we ask “Who created the Creator?” We cannot comprehend infinities. How could it be that God had no beginnning but has always been? For me it seems a bit easier to comprehend infinity in time forward than infinity in time past. How could you describe “eternal life”? As the song says, “When we’ve been there 10,000 years… no less days to sing God’s praise than when we first begun.”
Try to describe the biggest number you can imagine. Put years after that number. What would we do with all that time? The idea presents a new infinity – the gathering of knowledge and understanding. And how about endless increasing LOVE?
Is there ever a point when it has all been done?
And where does the universe begin or end? As far as we can tell, it goes on and on with no end? Assuming that God has created everything (which I believe He has), was there ever a time when He was NOT creating or had not yet created anything? Follow that thought to His having been creating an ever expanding universe for eternity past. Is it possible that the universe continues on and on without end? Could there be an end to “space”? If so, what would be beyond it?
The reality is that we as humans cannot begin to comprehend a reality that hypothetically encompanses infinity. We just can’t do it because everything we know has beginnings and ends – whether it be time or space.
But the reality is that we are here. We cannot even explain our own existence and I think that to suggest that it is an accident is actually a major admission of our lack of intelligence.
Imagine that you could stand back and look at a universe with nothing in it. Then you say to yourself, “I want to make something” First of all you have to have “matter”. Then the matter has to have it’s various complex forms. Then you want to get life started within that matter. Consider the billions of complex miracles that have to be functioning in harmony to have that matter (once you have made it) take on the functions required to have “life” – even in its simplest form.
All of this is really here. How did it get started? Even with our human advances in knowledge and understanding of “science” we really cannot explain the most fundamental concept of what really constitutes life. We know when it is in some matter, and we can sure tell when it is gone. But we do not know what it is.
It takes faith to believe in anything about how we got to be here and what the realities of our world are. Given the account in scripture about these great questions, I find the explanation to be much more believable than the notion that it all just somehow happened.
But the important thing to acknowledge is that it is all so much bigger and greater than we are. Yes, infinity does exist and we cannot comprehend it because we are finite. The scriptural acocunt of it all is powerful and compelling for those who give it a fair chance.
There is so much more to say. But that is almost enough for now.
As I write this in the Eastern time zone of the US, the sun will go down in a little less than two hours. I have full confidence that although I do not know exactly how many years it has been since the Creation but I am certain of something: The number of days – including tomorrow – will be divisible by 7. And the number of days since the day that the first Man was created until today, is also divisible by 7.
Happy Sabbath, everyone!
Listen to the “still small voice” of your Creator. He WILL speak to you if you listen.
Recent Comments by Charles
La Sierra Univeristy Fires Dr. Lee Greer; Signs anti-Creation Bond
I read something today that seems relevant to these discussions. I am incredulous that we should be having a discussion within the SDA movment about evolution as having a role in our origions.
But teaching evolution as truth is not the only inroad that Satan has made into our church. In fact, there is little area to our core beliefs that has not been compromised.
Read what Ellen White wrote in GC 509: “Conformity to worldly customs converts the church to the world; it never converts the world to Christ. Familiarity with sin will inevitably cause it to appear less repulsive.”
Jesus is coming soon. Not only is there a great work to be done in taking the 3 angels messages to the world; there is a great preparation to be worked within each of our hearts individually.
La Sierra Univeristy Fires Dr. Lee Greer; Signs anti-Creation Bond
To love the historic truths embraced by the SDA church and to defend them is not “hate”.
The End of “Junk DNA”?
I have studied only elementary courses in science and thus much of what I read in the discussions on this thread are a bit over my head.
Still, I think I have come common sense and that is the tool that I have for drawing the conclusions that I hold.
The Bible describes a 2000 year old event in which the God/human man we know as “Jesus” raised Lazarus from the dead. The event, as described, set a scenario in which Lazarus clearly was dead and his body decomposing. Jesus, in a miraculous way, put “LIFE” back into that decomposing body.
Now either that account is a true event, or it is not. What do you choose to believe? Where is the empirical evidence that this could happen? If you believe the account is true, how do your scientific ideas reconcile to the story?
You can study the building blocks of living creatures / plants and observe much of how life is operating. But without that operational essence that is “LIFE”, those building blocks do not exist.
So Mr “Scientist”, please show me first how to take the elements in their raw forms and put LIFE into them. Then I can believe that you have an understanding of our origins. You are looking at living forms (dead or alive) and drawing conclusions about your observations without explaining the most fundamental cause of it all: How did it get started?
Please don’t make a claim: Demonstrate it. If you understand how it was done, show me. I will make the question even more simple: “What is life?”
“I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.” John 10:10
“…should not perish, but have everlasting life.” John 3:16
Now if you want to tell me that “God” was some brilliant scientist from another planet who created our beginnings in a laboratory, I will point back to the demonstration by Jesus of the raising of a dead man (Lazarus) after three days of decomposition. Jesus simply called him back to life. There was a reason that Jesus did this and the account of it in scripture makes that reason clear.
I choose to believe that most of our “reality” (including “life”) is beyond our comprehension. There is much about reality that God has reserved to Himself. If you think you can explain it, then you are buying into the lie told by the serpent, “you will become as God…”
Use the intelligence that God has given you to acknowledge your limitations and His role in our existence. Accept by FAITH those things that you cannot understand.
We have been given a few decades of life to live in the world we know and understand today. Empirical evidence available to us would suggest that when we die, that is the sum total and end of it. Of the billions of humans on earth, where is a person among us who has been risen from the dead?
If you have a hope that there is something beyond your death, then you must shed the notion that you can explain our origins as anything besides an unexplainable mystery that God does not share; except for the account of it that He left to us by His servant, Moses.
I choose to accept my limitations and I place my trust and faith in the word that God has left to us, to help us understand how we got here, why we are here, and how it all ends.
“Even so, come Lord Jesus.”
The End of “Junk DNA”?
@pauluc:
So do I understand correctly that your “faith” is subject to your scientific provabilities?
You have not yet addressed what I asked about demonstrating from whence comes “life”? Do you believe that life could exist apart from a miracle working God? Do you believe in miracles? Or do you believe that God is just a very brilliant scientist or magician? OR… is it all just a hoax to persuade us to (whatever)…
At what point do we acknowledge our limitations and that our observations can deceive us?
For what reason was the SDA church founded? Is that reason relative to the reason for its continued existence today?
The name of the church was carefully chosen to reflect the reason for its existence. The “Seventh-Day” refers to the holiness of the the seventh day of the week – in memorial of the literal seven day creation week. The “Adventist” part of the name proclaims that we believe that Jesus is coming again very soon in a very miraculous, splendid, and un-scientific way. BUT, the reason for the existence of this church is the proclamation of these things we believe to be true. It’s not just a club of folks who hold these “beliefs” – although it could sometime seem that way.
No, the seven days of creation were not vast periods of evolutionary development and the clouds of Heaven are not going to be space ships. But in all honesty, from viewing what you write, I would not know what to expect that you believe, relative to our existence and the advent of Jesus in the near future.
I speak in respect to you, with honesty.
I see truth, not as progressive, but absolute. Our perceptions about truth can be progressive or regressive.
Prov 16:25 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but…..
Do you believe what you observe? Or do you believe the record that was provided by the Creator?
You claim to be a Seventh-Day Adventist, it seems. I wonder, just what is it about the SDA faith (it seems inapproprate to me to label it as a “tradition”) that, for you, distinguishes it from other “religions”? What is the compelling doctrine or belief that drives you to choose this faith over the abundance of others that are in the world?
Again, with all due respect, I honestly wonder.
An apology to PUC
So far the only substantive responses by PUC defenders have been empty sarcasm and ridicule. Unfortunately, 18-year-old students eat that sort of thing up and follow anyone who has mastered tactics that mirror their favorite media characters. Educate Truth isn’t going after anyone. It is simply laying out the evidence and presentations for all to see and assess for themselves. Educate Truth doesn’t have to point out the dishonesty and the underlying problem that balanced views in science are not being respectfully presented on Adventist college campuses.
