Hello Bob, First of all Bob I hope you are quick …

Comment on Creeds and Fundamental Beliefs by Ranald McLeish.

Hello Bob,

First of all Bob I hope you are quick enough to read this RESPONSE in case it is pulled again. In answer to your statement, “First of all – I have not seen you point to any place where the 27 FB differs from the voted doctrines of the Church or the Bible.”

This time I will ask you and Educate Truth to answer a simple question based on Scripture, and then explain how it fits with the FB statement below.

“The following is a brief synopsis of the voted Adventist statements of belief, regarding the little horn. presented in the volume, Adventists Believe — 27, now 28. While this volume is not an officially voted statement — it may be viewed as representative of “the truth . . . in Jesus (Eph. 4:21) that Seventh-day Adventists around the globe cherish and proclaim. Seventh-day Adventists Believe — 27, p. iv.

* The little horn power extends from the fall of the Greek empire till the “time of the end” (Dan. 8:17). Only Rome, pagan and papal, meets these time specifications. Seventh-day Adventists Believe, 27, p. 321.

How long do Daniel and John say the little horn power rules?

I look forward to your responses to this question.


Ranald McLeish Also Commented

Creeds and Fundamental Beliefs
Hi Bob,

You said, “But you pulled references from the little horn of Daniel 8 to make your complaint and in so doing you lost the specificity of the Daniel 7 timeline. There is no way to see Daniel 7 in every point read from Daniel 8 without deleting the added detail that we find in Daniel 8.”

Where did I ever say that? Please do me justice and quote me correctly.

Bob you also said, ” Daniel 8 does not address the length of time that the little horn rules. The little horn of Daniel 8 arises after the division of Greece.”

I believe you are correct, if you see two little horns in Dan. 7 and 8. So please tell me, how do you fit your understanding with the statement from FB, that is considered by Adventists to be the truth … in Jesus?

I am assuming from what you have said that you and Bill agree the LH of 7:8 is “another horn” that represents another power, a new power, the Papacy, that arose in the midst of the 10 horn kingdoms, and ruled for 1260 years, 7:25.


Creeds and Fundamental Beliefs
Re the topic.

Will someone be brave enough to define exactly what “THE TRUTH AS IT IS IN JESUS” means to Adventists? It appears that unless we have a clear understanding as to what this phrase means to Adventists, when used by Adventists, we will not understand the difference between Creeds and Fundamental Beliefs.

For example, does THE TRUTH AS IT IS IN JESUS, change?


Creeds and Fundamental Beliefs
Hi Bob,

The topic is Creeds and Fundamental beliefs, my question and response has been with that in mind.

I agree with you regarding the SS Quarterlies, however they do not claim to represent “the truth as it is in Jesus.” As far as I am aware, only the book Adventists Believe, makes that claim. Thus the question does that make it creedal, especially when people are judged by it as opposed to the Bible?