Comment on Creeds and Fundamental Beliefs by Charles.
Hello Ken, my friend.
“… repeat this folly, especially wtih no signs of a mandated Sunday law in sight.”
According to the story (or “legend” if you do not believe it’s true) of Noah, he preached for 120 years and backed up his belief by building a gigantic boat on high and dry land. Yep! And he was mocked and ridiculed for his belief. Imagine the crescendo of mockery as a week passes AFTER they enter the boat. According to the story, the whole world was destroyed except for the few in the boat:
Matt 24 –
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Those are the words of Jesus – Who IS the Creator of this world.
If one is waiting for absolute proof – as in watching for the storm clouds and raindrops to fall – then it will be too late. Too Late!
One either believes or does not believe. Honestly, those of us who do believe have studied the matter and have adequate evidence to believe.
Charles Also Commented
Creeds and Fundamental Beliefs
Fundamental Beliefs –
Someone here may say that the comment I have to make is off topic. True, it is not about evolution but it is about one of our most core fundamental beliefs. It is related to our very name “Adventist” and the issues upon which this church was founded.
When this church was founded, it was upon the belief of a very near coming of Jesus in power and glory. That was more than 150 years ago.
Am I mistaken when it seems to me that our discussions tend toward the long term?
One of our more fundamental beliefs, discussed here, would probably draw an even more heated discussion than our belief in a literal 7-day recent creation week. I’ll put it out there for response.
We believe that in the near future, God’s REMNANT church will face terrible persecution related to their faithfulness in worshipping the true God and keeping HIS Sabbath holy. In fact, this belief is so core to our existence that the day was made a part of our full name as an organization.
I believe that the preparations for this persecution are mostly in place and there remain only a few triggers to engage it fully.
So what will we as Seventh-Day Adventists be doing when the world-wide law is established that enforces the observance of Sunday? How quickly do YOU think this could happen? Will we be operating the finest medical facilities in the world? Will we be operating cutting-edge educational institutions?
Will we be posting our messages here on the internet? Will we be meeting in our prominant beautiful churches on “Main Street”? If so, will it be on Sabbath? Or Sunday?
How will we be doing all of that from the mountains and caves where we will be hiding?
Ellen White (yes, she was a true prophet) says that “the final movements will be rapid ones.” There are those among us who are pointing to the signs that this is true. We are almost to the time when this earth will be evacuated by God’s “saved”. Should we not be wholly focused on proclaiming the mission that is the cause for our existance?
Why are we here? What are we doing here? Why are we not yet in God’s Heavenly kingdom?
Recent Comments by Charles
La Sierra Univeristy Fires Dr. Lee Greer; Signs anti-Creation Bond
I read something today that seems relevant to these discussions. I am incredulous that we should be having a discussion within the SDA movment about evolution as having a role in our origions.
But teaching evolution as truth is not the only inroad that Satan has made into our church. In fact, there is little area to our core beliefs that has not been compromised.
Read what Ellen White wrote in GC 509: “Conformity to worldly customs converts the church to the world; it never converts the world to Christ. Familiarity with sin will inevitably cause it to appear less repulsive.”
Jesus is coming soon. Not only is there a great work to be done in taking the 3 angels messages to the world; there is a great preparation to be worked within each of our hearts individually.
La Sierra Univeristy Fires Dr. Lee Greer; Signs anti-Creation Bond
To love the historic truths embraced by the SDA church and to defend them is not “hate”.
The End of “Junk DNA”?
I have studied only elementary courses in science and thus much of what I read in the discussions on this thread are a bit over my head.
Still, I think I have come common sense and that is the tool that I have for drawing the conclusions that I hold.
The Bible describes a 2000 year old event in which the God/human man we know as “Jesus” raised Lazarus from the dead. The event, as described, set a scenario in which Lazarus clearly was dead and his body decomposing. Jesus, in a miraculous way, put “LIFE” back into that decomposing body.
Now either that account is a true event, or it is not. What do you choose to believe? Where is the empirical evidence that this could happen? If you believe the account is true, how do your scientific ideas reconcile to the story?
You can study the building blocks of living creatures / plants and observe much of how life is operating. But without that operational essence that is “LIFE”, those building blocks do not exist.
So Mr “Scientist”, please show me first how to take the elements in their raw forms and put LIFE into them. Then I can believe that you have an understanding of our origins. You are looking at living forms (dead or alive) and drawing conclusions about your observations without explaining the most fundamental cause of it all: How did it get started?
Please don’t make a claim: Demonstrate it. If you understand how it was done, show me. I will make the question even more simple: “What is life?”
“I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.” John 10:10
“…should not perish, but have everlasting life.” John 3:16
Now if you want to tell me that “God” was some brilliant scientist from another planet who created our beginnings in a laboratory, I will point back to the demonstration by Jesus of the raising of a dead man (Lazarus) after three days of decomposition. Jesus simply called him back to life. There was a reason that Jesus did this and the account of it in scripture makes that reason clear.
I choose to believe that most of our “reality” (including “life”) is beyond our comprehension. There is much about reality that God has reserved to Himself. If you think you can explain it, then you are buying into the lie told by the serpent, “you will become as God…”
Use the intelligence that God has given you to acknowledge your limitations and His role in our existence. Accept by FAITH those things that you cannot understand.
We have been given a few decades of life to live in the world we know and understand today. Empirical evidence available to us would suggest that when we die, that is the sum total and end of it. Of the billions of humans on earth, where is a person among us who has been risen from the dead?
If you have a hope that there is something beyond your death, then you must shed the notion that you can explain our origins as anything besides an unexplainable mystery that God does not share; except for the account of it that He left to us by His servant, Moses.
I choose to accept my limitations and I place my trust and faith in the word that God has left to us, to help us understand how we got here, why we are here, and how it all ends.
“Even so, come Lord Jesus.”
So do I understand correctly that your “faith” is subject to your scientific provabilities?
You have not yet addressed what I asked about demonstrating from whence comes “life”? Do you believe that life could exist apart from a miracle working God? Do you believe in miracles? Or do you believe that God is just a very brilliant scientist or magician? OR… is it all just a hoax to persuade us to (whatever)…
At what point do we acknowledge our limitations and that our observations can deceive us?
For what reason was the SDA church founded? Is that reason relative to the reason for its continued existence today?
The name of the church was carefully chosen to reflect the reason for its existence. The “Seventh-Day” refers to the holiness of the the seventh day of the week – in memorial of the literal seven day creation week. The “Adventist” part of the name proclaims that we believe that Jesus is coming again very soon in a very miraculous, splendid, and un-scientific way. BUT, the reason for the existence of this church is the proclamation of these things we believe to be true. It’s not just a club of folks who hold these “beliefs” – although it could sometime seem that way.
No, the seven days of creation were not vast periods of evolutionary development and the clouds of Heaven are not going to be space ships. But in all honesty, from viewing what you write, I would not know what to expect that you believe, relative to our existence and the advent of Jesus in the near future.
I speak in respect to you, with honesty.
I see truth, not as progressive, but absolute. Our perceptions about truth can be progressive or regressive.
Prov 16:25 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but…..
Do you believe what you observe? Or do you believe the record that was provided by the Creator?
You claim to be a Seventh-Day Adventist, it seems. I wonder, just what is it about the SDA faith (it seems inapproprate to me to label it as a “tradition”) that, for you, distinguishes it from other “religions”? What is the compelling doctrine or belief that drives you to choose this faith over the abundance of others that are in the world?
Again, with all due respect, I honestly wonder.
An apology to PUC
So far the only substantive responses by PUC defenders have been empty sarcasm and ridicule. Unfortunately, 18-year-old students eat that sort of thing up and follow anyone who has mastered tactics that mirror their favorite media characters. Educate Truth isn’t going after anyone. It is simply laying out the evidence and presentations for all to see and assess for themselves. Educate Truth doesn’t have to point out the dishonesty and the underlying problem that balanced views in science are not being respectfully presented on Adventist college campuses.