Comment on A “Christian Agnostic”? by Hubert F. Sturges.
I read with interest the article about Ervin Taylor, PhD, the “Christian agnostic.” He is reported to believe, “perhaps for political reasons in certain settings, that he does actually believe in God and in Jesus as the Son of God, born into this world from a virgin woman and raised from the dead after three days to ascend to heaven to intercede for us with the Father.” (This statement by Sean Pitman might not exactly reflect Dr. Taylor’s belief, but I quote it as it probably comes close.)
This statement describes the “crossless Christ.” It is a common belief among Christians who like also to say, “Jesus is enough.”
Jesus came to “seek and to save the lost.” The “lost?” The concept of being lost comes straight from Genesis. To believe that you are lost requires that you accept the Genesis story in total, or there is no basis for being “lost.”
Yet, Dr. Taylor, I will grant is an honest man. He is simply expressing the all too common belief of many Christians that Jesus Christ has no requirements. He is simply giving a philosophical basis for the lukewarm lifestyle of far too many even of Adventists. Jesus Himself said, “If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.”
If we all from highest to lowest let this guide our lifestyle, many problems in the church would be solved. If we do not do this, let’s face it, we are not even Christians.
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Recent Comments by Hubert F. Sturges
Northern California Conference Votes to Act Independent of the General Conference
Hi, Jody,
I checked and found that the correct spelling for the website is www.evangelicalbible.com
There is no “s” in it. Hope this works. If not try putting it in Google. If you still have a problem, send me an email, hfsturges@gmail.com
Northern California Conference Votes to Act Independent of the General Conference
Brother Hills,
To your quote from Testimonies vol 6, I say a loud AMEN. When I was in college at PUC, 30 – 40 ministerial students spent the summers canvassing. It was a wonderful experience for them. I guess is not done that way any more. When it comes to women’s ordination, I think the problem is not just women’s ordination, it extends to men’s ordination too. I believe that men also need to have the experience of winning souls before they are ready for ministry. Those women who have the ability and experience of winning souls from the community would have a place and make a real contribution to the ministry.
Northern California Conference Votes to Act Independent of the General Conference
Hello Bill,
Thanks for your reply. As for “Ten reasons that men should not be ordained” — it was simply humor, and intended to lighten up the conversation.
Seriously, we as a church desperately need to become more knowledgeable on the Bible and Spirit of Prophecy, When I hear a sermon, it is clear to me as to whether the Spirit of Prophecy has been consulted. Ellen White has given us information and warnings that we all need. It is sad to see the blatant rebellion in the church over women’s ordination. It is also sad to see some churches still hanging onto “New Theology” (all of grace and none of keeping the law, salvation even for those who continue in sin.) Possibly even worse is to see “church growth” coming hand in hand with eastern forms of meditation, etc. But enough of that.
I consider myself to be a literate SDA. I have read much in the Spirit of Prophecy. I have the EGW CDROM on my computer. Which makes it easy to find answers in the SOP without having to read the context. I have all my life used the Bible as a reference book — looking up texts, reading portions here and there. Our Sabbath School Lessons promote this approach. About five years ago, I decided to read the Bible through cover to cover. It was an eye opener! It brought to mind many important messages I needed to know. Each year I choose a different Bible to read. — The King James Bible is my standard, The Andrews Study Bible (NKJV), Everett Fox’s translation of parts of the Bible – translating the Bible to be read aloud, The Reese Chronological Bible, etc.
I strongly recommend that every SDA read the Bible through cover to cover. Even if using just your own favorite translation. I like to mark my Bible, using four different colors to emphasize certain points.
One other thing, it is impossible to find a Bible in a bookstore of such quality that your highlighter does not bleed through to the next page. I would recommend looking at www.evangelicalbibles.com This is a source of really good Bibles. Such will cost from $150 – $220. But if you are going to spend many hours reading it through, it is worthwhile to have a high quality Bible. It makes it a joy to hold it and read it.
Pray while you read the Bible. It will strengthen your prayer life. Get up an hour early each morning to read and pray. It will brighten up the whole day
Northern California Conference Votes to Act Independent of the General Conference
Brother Henry,
So far I have not become involved in the issue of Women’s ordination. I will make a comment on the ordination off Ellen White. She was in a special way the “messenger of the Lord.” Because of her position, her work, and her relationship to the Lord she was ordained.
However, we have no evidence that she was a pastor of a church, and did not, so far as I know, get into the politics of the church, except to present messages from God as she received them. A good example is the 1888 issue. Even in the heat of politics, she did not take sides — until she received a message from the Lord, which she passed on to others.
In our present situation, to be ordained to the ministry is closely tied to being the pastor of a church. I believe that this is not necessarily the plan of God. We have a number of ministries in the Adventist church. Most of them are not a matter of ordination, but instead leaders are “commissioned.”
I served a term in Ethiopia. When I became head of the hospital in Gimbie, I was commissioned. It never occurred to me to seek ordination. In our present situation, we still have the problem of the close tie between ordination and being pastor of a church. I am not sure that this is necessary. When women are called to ministry, they have special talents that fit them for a number of areas in the church. Wouldn’t it be good to ordain them for these special ministries, for which they are best suited?
Northern California Conference Votes to Act Independent of the General Conference
@Bill Sorensen:
Someone posted this on Facebook: Ten Reasons a Man Should Not Be Ordained
10. A man’s place is in the army.
9. The pastoral duties of men who have children might distract them from the responsibility of being a parent.
8. The physique of men indicates that they are more suited to such tasks as chopping down trees and wrestling mountain lions. It would be “unnatural” for them to do ministerial tasks.
7. Man was created before woman, obviously as a prototype. Thus, they represent an experiment rather than the crowning achievement of creation.
6. Men are too emotional to be priests or pastors. Their conduct at football and basketball games demonstrates this.
5. Some men are handsome, and this will distract women worshipers.
4. Pastors need to nurture their congregations. But this is not a traditional male role. Throughout history, women have been recognized as not only more skilled than men at nurturing, but also more fervently attracted to it. This makes them the obvious choice for ordination.
3. Men are prone to violence. No really masculine man wants to settle disputes except by fighting about them. Thus they would be poor role models as well as dangerously unstable in positions of leadership.
2. The New Testament tells us that Jesus was betrayed by a man. His lack of faith and ensuing punishment remind us of the subordinated position that all men should take.
1. Men can still be involved in church activities, even without being ordained. They can sweep sidewalks, repair the church roof, and perhaps even lead the song service on Father’s Day. By confining themselves to such traditional male roles, they can still be vitally important in the life of the church.
~ Dr. David M. Scholer, a former professor at Fuller Theological Seminary.
