Comment on La Sierra “outraged” over Educate Truth article by Johnny Zwick.
Gentlemen: While I cannot reply to all points and counterpoints, I just want to say that the Flood occurred in phases: (1)Inundatory (Gen. 7:11b,12), (a) eruptive (7:11), (b) ascending (7:17),(c) zenithic (7:17,19), (2) Recessive (8:2,3), (a) abative (8:3), (b) dispersive (8:5). Of these phases the eruptive one seems to be the most powerful phase, fed by forces in the mantel of the earth. We also all know the awesome power of large quantities of water in gauging, cutting, covering surroundings and so on. Furthermore, sudden rifts in the earths crust would have unleashed giant tsunamis according to how many of these occurred. That shifting of the continental plates occurred can hardly be doubted, that they occurred quickly is supported by mountain chains, layers and other features discussed in various forums. If evolution were true, the millions of years, this earth should be covered with fossil bones and the like 1 mile thick around the globe. Where are the millions of years fossils? There are not enough of them for that length of time. They occur frequently in particular areas swept and accumulated there by water. One more point, 6000 yrs should produce a human population of how many? Lets assume they multiplied this way: 2 -150yrs – 4 – 8 – 16 – 32 – 64 … At any rate after 32 exponential multiplications within 4800 yrs there shoud be today some 8.6 billion people on the earth, Well, today we may have 6.5 billion or so according to estimates. Diseases and wars, etc. reduced the numbers from what it could have been. However, if we start the exponential increase from 2350 BC, then we should have 4360 yrs, a good number for 6.5 billion people of today. So, don’t knock Bible history, if you cannot imagine something, trust in the Word instead of imaginations. Come on, let us be true believers, not only when it suits us.
Remember also this: Most strata appear to have been deposited in subaqueous marine settings. Uniformitarians insist that life has been evolving for hundreds of millions of years. That much life over that much time should have left plentiful body and trace fossils throughout the rock record. However, this is not always true. In fact, the vertical rock record for any given location typically contains few fossils, and those are usually concentrated in specific zones or along bedding contacts, and not evenly distributed throughout the column as you would expect. – Geologists will state that the Galapagos Islands are located at the intersection of five tectonic plates. When these shift they can create large cracks (faults) in the crust of the earth. Many of such faults are underneath the oceans of the world. The Flood explains the source of the force required to cause these plates to crack, move and overlap. Slow events over millions or even billions of years would never be able to achieve such changes. We all know the tremendous power large amounts of water have. That is the answer we see in the shapes and layers all around the world. Thus, the Galapagos Islands were created over time by the Flood overlapping the crust in that area, followed by volcanic activity, earthquakes, tidal waves, giant storms and further shifting of crustal plates. In the Galapagos archipelagos the western islands are still geological hotspots today. That is why the `younger’ islands occur on the western side while they grow `older’ as you travel east.
Enough for this time.
I graduated from LSC in 69. Sadly how things have changed in some respects. There is power in the Word, but man’s wisdom is faulty. Origins science is like history untestable. No one has seen it happen. Only God was there. Normal operational science we all can agree on. We can repeat it and come of with same results. So, keep those areas of science separate.
As for me, I support literal creation.
Johnny Zwick, BA,BS LSC, LLU.
Johnny Zwick Also Commented
La Sierra “outraged” over Educate Truth article
Shane, When I became US citizen, I changed my middle name.
At any rate. It seems that the first posting was rejected because I used my middle name. I would like to emphasize that we keep areas of science separate, i.e. normal, repeatable, operational science separate from origins or historical science. The first we can all agree on, the second can be based on believes of the beholder. Creation is historical or origins science. No human was there, no one but God has seen it. We accept it nased on faith alone. Then Adam and Eve came forth. Then some 150 ysr(?) later there were 4, then 8, 16, 32 … Starting from 2350 BC to today, some 4360 yrs. that would figure out to be around 6.5 billion people today (a generation = 40 yrs, 32 exponential increases), as we now have on earth. If man originated some 50,000 years ago, there would be some 332 generations. The resulting population today should be: 1 with 100 zeros. Well, where are they hiding?
As we can tell, if the millions of years were true, there ought to be many more bones,of man and animals all over the earth. We do not see that. Large areas in the rocks and on the ground do not contain such numbers of fossil evidence.
What is being discovered in various places around the world are mass graves, deposited by flowing water.
As far as history goes, the histpry of man is not older than about 2350 BC. Egyptian history, the dynasties are a haphazard house of cards, and not truly bonified science.
The power of water, if we look at it as God would see it from above, the immense quantity of it in the oceans, is sufficient to acoount for the geological features we see, once they are agitated by fissures and faulting in the earth’s crust, the shifting of the continental plates. The forces unleashed are sufficient to account for mountain formation, etc.
We also may consider the phases of the Flood: (1) Inundatory (Gen 7:11b,12), (a) eruptive (7:11), (b)ascending (7:17), (c)zenithic (7:17,19), (2) Recessive (8:2,3), (a) abative (8:3) (b) dispersive (8:5). Of those phases, the eruptive seem to be the more forceful phase.
Anyhow, since no one saw God creating anything, we accept that based on faith that the eyewitness account of God is true. Since no one can see “age”, we know it is guesswork and we can move on using real, normal, operational science we can repeat in labs and obtain same or similar results, and leave historical science to the realm of belief and world views. Albeit, Christians do have a firm foundation to rely on His Word against that of unbelievers for as “the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.” Isa. 55:9.
Amen to that.
Hans J. Zwick
Recent Comments by Johnny Zwick
The Metamorphosis of La Sierra University: an eye-witness account
I took a course or two taught by Fritz Guy in the late 60′. He reminded me of the professors I had in Germany who were all trained in Protestant, actually, Catholic universities since our church has no schools for advanced degress. Others students in my class were divided over being quite conservative SdA’s, wich I was one of, to more liberal. Most of the liberals were shaken out and perhaps 1 or 2 who were conservative, then, later, studied for their PhD and one, I talked to a couple years ago, is not conservative any more. It is hard for many to get through advanced degrees and still believe the scriptures as they read. They cannot see that evolution distorts the ancient history of the Bible lands because they try forever to connect some culture to the Neanderthals when human history does not trace further back in time then about 2200 BC, with one post Flood Ice Age.
That is what I studied out with a e-mail friend, the history of the Bible lands. We discovered written evidence that the Queen of Sheba was Queen Hatshepsut, that Shishak was Thutmose III, that the Amarna period belongs in the days of Ahab, that Ben Hadad was known under several names including Ashurnasirpal of which I was able to find some proof in old archaeology magazines from 1905 I believe it was. That makes Ramses II pharaoh Necho of the Book of Jeremiah and the Greek authors whose chief of staff was Necharomes, (garve found in 2002) – the name is made up of Necho – Ramses. As the king’s diplomat he had the right to name himself after his master and how he was non in Egypt and by the Greeks.
That makes Ramses III Nectanebo and puts the 21st Dynasty into the period of Persian occupation of Egypt.
More could be said of course, but just to let people know, the 18th dynasty started with King Saul. The Exodus took place in Old Kingdom times. Setting history up like this correlates kings from neighboring countries, events and achievements. Unfortunately, once scholars had decided on a chronology (before all the evidence was in) and wrote expensive books, magazines, etc. falsity assumes a life of its own and they just squeeze and cut and hack all the evidence (layers they dig up and pottery) to make it fit. The fall guy was the Hebrew Bible.
All this is related to evolutionary thinking, a master piece of Satan.
Jesus called the Queen of Sheba, the queen of the south because Egypt, like Palestine, was under Roman control. They had no rulers of their own who amounted to anything.
Our scholars all subscribed to these errors. They couldn’t see the forest for the trees. They could not see, that, if history goes beyond 2200/2300 BC, there is something very wrong. They were blinded by the wine of Babylon.
I always wondered, how come some of the teachers I could never see in church, where they might be, now I understand.
Maranatha
Johnny Z
Dr. Geraty clarifies his “Challenge” to literal 6-day creationism
Hello, These events and how degreed teachers obtained their education, Harvard in this case, reminds me of a warning written a long time ago by E.A. Sutherland titled, `Why the Protestant Churches fell,’in which he outlines how the RCC counter reformation brought in a short time most of the schools in Europe under their control and while they were not welcome in North America, the teachers, having come from schools in England, which already followed the Roman program of education, brought the ideas and couricular of the Roman inspired schools with them and implemented them at all the universities in the east from early on. Dunster was one of the early presidents of Harvard who was responsible for the type of education we were warned about later on. To me it sounded that the retired President from LSU is not widely read on the issues and probably not inclined to read other viewpoints contrary to his own outdated ones.
That is why all our positioned appointees should pass a test on their qualifications on spiritual leadership – after all, its better to be tested here on earth than wait till judgment day. At least that is my opinion.
I hope and pray that we have a few true leaders left.
Hans Zwick
GYC Q&A addresses universities who hire and protect evolutionists
I believe that problems like teaching evolution must be met head-on. I also agree with what Austin said about the homosexual problem, that higher ups must be treated differently than plain church goers. When I think back of Moses and Joshua, even Paul and Jesus, there is no room to countenance such things. Jesus speaks to such problems through all the authors of Bible books. There are numerous lists of sins which cannot be part of God’s church. After time to confess (before God) and repent, they either change and be saved or they are on their own. While sins are in all of us, we make now daily committments to overcome and be changed into the likeness of Jesus Christ. The times we live in admit to no delaying to get us ready for Jesus to come again. We shall pray, but someone must take action.
JohnnyZ
