In 2003 the Adventist Review published a very controversial article by Clifford Goldstein titled, “Seventh-day Darwinians.” This strongly worded article seemed to slip through the vetting cracks and ended up causing a great deal of heated debate within the Seventh-day Adventist Church, especially at our academic institutions like La Sierra University and Loma Linda University. Now that this particular controversy has hit center stage, Cliff has revisited his original article, which significantly contributed to the thinking of many involved in this current debate (including my own thinking). I’m sure Cliff’s current article will cause many more to reconsider this issue in a new light as well.  – Sean Pitman
ANY HONEST ADVENTIST WHO WONDERS IF OUR FAITH COULD EVER BE reconciled with evolution must read Physics and Cosmology (Nancey Murphy, Robert John Russell, William R. Stoeger, SJ, editors; Vatican City State, Vatican Observatory Foundation: 2007). A compilation of papers presented at a symposium in Italy in 2005, the book is crammed with scientists, philosophers, and theologians (Catholic and Protestant) who seek to explain the goodness of God in the face of the world’s evil (in this case, “natural†evil). Each contributor, though, worked from the premise that natural evil and suffering were “built into the universe from its origin†(p. 264). Why such a horrible, and wrong, start? Because all believe that evolution is the means God used to create us. (Read more)
Hello all,
While I might consider Goldstein’s article to a classic bait-and-switch (he evokes the Seventh-day Darwinist bogeyman without actually referring to it, unless he is referring to the Catholic and other non-Adventist Protestants writing in Physics and Cosmology, the book he is reviewing), I did do my best to interact with his argument and begin to read the book with which he takes some exception. I have not finished it, but there are one or two points I want for us to consider before we jump into the fray.
First, we should keep in mind that philosophers and other scholars often discuss and theorize concepts at great length without necessarily espousing those concepts as truth. It is a venerable academic and scholarly tradition to “tease out” different philosophical positions, often giving opposing theoretical viewpoints equal time and space to fully form and to dialogue. I feel that quite often in our religious writings, we have too quickly dismissed opposing philosophies as incompatible without allowing this dialogue to occur by allowing the the opposing viewpoint to fully speak for itself. If we only take the weakest arguments or arguments out of context as a straw man to knock down, we have not truly dialogued with an opposing philosophy. Goldstein does well here by at least quoting and dialoguing somewhat with the book. However, he does make the mistake of forgetting that the book, Physics and Cosmology, is an edited volume of essays by multiple authors and not the standalone work of a single scholar. The authors frequently disagree and debate each others’ work (at least in the chapter by Kirk Wegter-McNelly, that I am reading).
Secondly, Wegter-McNelly makes an interesting point on p. 253. Again, I am mentioning this point without necessarily espousing it as the final word on the matter; it is nevertheless an interesting perspective on much of our debate here:
“The radical incomprehensibility of God is the beginning point and end of all theology. What we can comprehend is not God. All of our concepts and all of our words come from our everyday experiences of things in this world. They cannot be used of God in any univocal way. We speak truly of God only in stumbling ways and only within the limits of analogies and metaphors from everyday existence.” (253)
There is much to comment on regarding this book, but I leave it to the rest of you to read it and come to your own conclusions, which may or may not be similar to Goldstein’s.
Pax,
David Kendall, PhD
Adjunct Professor of Music
La Sierra University
David Kendall, PhD(Quote)
View Comment@David Kendall, PhD:
While it is true that the fullness of God is beyond anything we can remotely comprehend, it is not true that everything about God is therefore completely incomprehensible.
It is the belief of the SDA Church, and most Christians in general, that God has in fact revealed certain things about Himself that we can comprehend and understand. For the SDA Church in particular, one of those things is the idea that God has in fact revealed to us an authentic account of His creation of life on this planet in 6 literal days – and that there was no original suffering and death for any sentient creature in God’s original creation.
While He obviously hasn’t revealed many of the details of exactly how He did this, He has revealed a few details that do seem relatively easy to at least understand as revealed. After all, the concept of 6 literal days is not beyond human comprehension even though the creative act itself most certainly is. And, the details revealed are consistent with other details that God has revealed about His own character; to include His deep concern and care for the suffering and pain of all of His sentient creatures. He has revealed to us, in very clear language that even a child can understand, the reason for the existence of the suffering and pain in our world as the result of our own rebellion against Him, the fact that this was never His ideal intent for us, and what He plans to do to fix this horrible situation.
All of this “Great Controversy” stuff that is in the Bible is fundamentally opposed by the philosophical and religious implications of the modern Theory of Evolution. As Clifford Goldstein points out, there simply is no common ground between the SDA view of God and any form of mainstream evolutionism. As Cliff noted in his original article, the evils of Nazism are a much snugger fit with evolutionary implications. Who could love a God who deliberately used a very evil evolutionary mechanism to produce life on this planet? I myself would hate such a being. I certainly would not wish to live forever in such a horrible universe. Would you? Really?
No wonder Richard Dawkins and those with similar views can’t stand this distorted idea of God – the only idea that is really compatible with mainstream evolutionary ideas. It would be better to choose oblivion than to serve such a God. In this sense, I’m very sympathetic with Dawkins and those like him.
Sean Pitman
http://www.DetectingDesign.com
Sean Pitman(Quote)
View CommentGoldstein is correct. Physics and Cosmology: Scientific Perspectives on Natural Evil, is indeed must reading for all in this discussion. His points are on target. Moreover, the authors start with a death-free eschatology in their theodicy without which they admit that they would have no answer for current natural evil in this Earth. However, in order to accomplish this starting point, they must grant a degree of univosity to biblical eschatological texts which they do not grant to biblical protologial texts. Unfortunately, the authors cannot treat Genesis 1-11 as history because they have accepted as true the macro-evolutionary deep-time model of earth history.
It is a pleasure to read the results of Goldstein’s close reading of this most important book.
John(Quote)
View CommentDavid Kendall seems to view the “teasing out” of various viewpoints in the present controversy as a harmless exercise–the necessary full airing of a particular concept in the name of fairness. This is fine if we are talking about human theories and philosophies or some debate in the secular realm (e.g. politics).
But here we are addressing the core of the Christian message–the fundamental issue of natural origins and the conflict between good and evil. In matters spiritual we are not dealing with the harmless interchange of ideas, where any number of varied conclusions might be embraced with innocence. Rather, we are dealing with the great controversy between righteousness and sin, in which wrong ideas and wrong practices can and will lead to eternal damnation.
Goldstein is quite right in his contention that “Seventh-day Darwinism” is a fallacious construct, and that those Adventists who compromise with evolution in their worldview are in the wrong church.
God bless!
Pastor Kevin Paulson
Kevin Paulson(Quote)
View CommentAccording to Kevin, “…wrong ideas and wrong practices can and will lead to eternal damnation.” Assuming SDA interpretations of the Bible are true, does that mean that nobody who venerates Sunday as the sabbath will be in heaven, nobody who believes in eternal torment will be in heaven, and nobody who believes in theistic evolution will be in heaven? Is it really that simple? Does God judge us by what we believe–or how we live?
Eddie(Quote)
View CommentAs usual, Goldstein cuts through the baloney to hit a bulls-eye again.
Ron Stone M.D.(Quote)
View Comment@Eddie:
I don’t think that Kevin is suggesting that all who hold or held various doctrinal errors are eternally lost. I think that he is suggesting that ideas that we hold to be true have an effect upon our actions. Mistaken ideas about the value of different ethnic variations of humans, and the true nature and character of God, lead to the horrors of the slave trade in supposedly enlightened “Christian” countries like England and America, and even to the holocaust in Nazi Germany.
Ideas leading to such actions have the ability to so mar the soul that such a person might not be happy in heaven – not being able to appreciate other types of people as on equal value before God and therefore worthy of equal love and care as one’s self.
As distasteful as it sounds, Darwinian evolution forms the basis for the ideas that lead to slavery and the holocaust. Such ideas are very natural conclusions, given evolutionary assumptions. After all, the full title of Darwin’s famous book is: On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life.
By “favored races” Darwin is referring to human races which he thought had evolved to a higher level compared to other human races. Such ideas are not now politically correct, but these mistaken ideas have resulted in a great deal of suffering, pain, and death for tens of millions of people since Darwin. After all, the only real “morality” in a system of “survival of the fittest” is survival itself. Whomever survives is right by definition. There is no other morality inherent in such a world view. Therefore, the suggestion that God intentionally created all life on this planet using such a brutal system reflects very badly on the character of God himself…
It is a far different picture when one considers all men and women brothers and sisters through a recent common origin in Adam and Eve – all being direct sons and daughters of loving and caring God who is personally interested in the welfare of each individual (and even of sentient animals as well). This difference in ideology also tends to reflect in how one treats other people and ultimately tends to reflect in one’s moral character before God and therefore one’s eternal salvation.
Of course, only God can judge the heart, but I dare say that those who set up the murderous slave trade or the Nazi concentration camps will be far less likely to be in heaven compared to those who recognize and treat all equally as brothers and sisters…
Sean Pitman
http://www.DetectingDesign.com
Sean Pitman(Quote)
View CommentI think Hosea 4:6 is relevant to Eddie’s questions:
Shane Hilde(Quote)
View CommentNote that Hosea 4:6 is referring to a deliberate “rejection” of knowledge… not sincere ignorance. There is hope for those who are honestly and sincerely ignorant. There is no hope for those who are deliberately ignorant of what they know or even think might be true…
Sean Pitman
http://www.DetectingDesign.com
Sean Pitman(Quote)
View CommentDear Eddie:
Sean and Shane are quite correct in assessing what I have said, especially in reference to Hosea 4:6. The issue here is not those who ignorantly believe error. God winks at their ignorance (Acts 17:30). Elsewhere Scripture informs us, “To him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin” (James 4:17).
But as we have noted before on this forum, doctrinal truth is very much an issue with regard to our salvation. Which is why the apostle Paul declared as follows:
“God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth” (II Thess. 2:13).
“Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine: continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee” (I Tim. 4:16).
Some have foolishly tried to separate Christ from doctrinal truth, saying that while the former is necessary for salvation, the latter is not. Yet it was Christ Himself who declared that man shall live “by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God” (Matt. 4:4). Ellen White thus observes:
“All truth is to be received as the life of Jesus. Truth cleanses us from all impurity, and prepares the soul for Christ’s presence” (OHC 208).
“The whole Bible is a manifestation of Christ” (DA 390).
The obsession of many contemporary Adventists with an ill-defined “relationship” with Jesus, presumably distinct from doctrinal or lifestyle faithfulness, has been devastating to the spiritual seriousness of more than one generation in the church. It is for this reason that certain ones in the present conversation can speak of salvation being “unrelated” to correct knowledge, and can thus find accommodation within the church for those who would teach such dastardly, unchristian theories as evolution. The problem began when modern Adventists decided they could somehow have “Jesus” without necessarily accepting the doctrinal and lifestyle demands of God’s written counsel.
Now we see the fruits of this outrageous heresy. It is time, long past time, for the Seventh-day Adventist Church to set wayward theology aside and return to a faith strictly grounded in Scripture and amplified in the writings of the Spirit of Prophecy.
God bless!
Pastor Kevin Paulson
Kevin Paulson(Quote)
View CommentDavid Kendall said:
I disagree. Goldstein just pointing out that the philosophical or religious underpinning of these Catholic scholars’ arguments are the very same one which carries those Adventists who advocate the theistic evolutionary theory – whether they themselves realize or not.
What they are basically saying, in my view, is: “Honey, I shrunk God!”
Justin(Quote)
View Comment@ Kevin Paulson
Pastor Paulson,
I did not mention that the “teasing out” of viewpoints is either a harmless exercise or that it is done in the name of fairness or for any other reason; I said simply that this is what scholars do as part of a venerable (or venerated) academic tradition.
No mention was made of embracing varied conclusions, be they innocent or otherwise, but rather I advised that “we should keep in mind that philosophers and other scholars often discuss and theorize concepts at great length without necessarily espousing those concepts as truth.”
Do you consider certain lines of inquiry to be off-limits? What kinds of scholarship should be forbidden when our primary concern is the salvation of our souls? Is the very knowledge of “wrong ideas and wrong practices” that which can and will lead to eternal damnation? What do you propose we do about this?
Pax,
David Kendall, PhD
Adjunct Professor of Music
La Sierra University
David Kendall, PhD(Quote)
View CommentSo which has been the source of more bloodshed on this planet: Judaeo-Christian doctrines or Darwinism?
Geanna Dane(Quote)
View CommentDear David K:
What we know and learn about erroneous ideas or practices must take place strictly within the confines of the Biblical worldview, not in the open-ended, absolutes-denying spirit of so-called inquiry which characterizes modern intellectualism.
It is appropriate for informed Christians to know the falsehoods they will meet in seeking to win the world to Christ. But this information must be shared in such a way as to leave the student in no doubt whatsoever that God’s Word is right and every alternative mistaken. As Ellen White says, “there is room for every man’s opinion and doctrines” on the broad road leading to destruction (MB 138). The same does not hold true for the narrow road which leads to eternal life.
God bless!
Pastor Kevin Paulson
Kevin Paulson(Quote)
View Comment“Judaeo-Christian” doctrine has not been responsible for worldwide bloodshed. To make such a statement does a gross injustice to the truly Biblical representatives of the Judaeo-Christian faith (those who Adventists count as their spiritual forefathers) – and it only gives further credence to the Devils attempt to discredit and defame the true Judaeo-Christian faith.
Did Roman Catholic Dark Ages dogma result in mass bloodshed historically? Undeniably yes. Did euro/racist/imperialist quasi-‘christian’ doctrine result in great bloodshed? Yes. Have unbiblical attempts at developing a ‘christian theocracy?’ Yes. Nothing very ‘Judaeo’ or ‘Christian’ about these atrocities though.
The constant refrain is that ‘religion’ has resulted in more bloodshed than anything else. However, none of the major massacres and wars of the twentieth century can be characterized as ‘judaeo-christian’ per se, or ‘religious’ for that matter(unless you include Hitlers attempts to co-opt Catholics and Protestants under his fascist/fuhrer-messianic third reich banner). Nothing ‘Judaeo’ about Nazi Germany of course.
The vast majority of atrocities in our lifetime were not committed in the name of ‘judaeo-chrisitanity.’ However, the majority of them can be traced in one way or another to Darwinism.
Nazism, Atheistic Communism, Stalinism, and Maoism (by far the worst offenders numerically) all have philosophical roots in Darwinism.
WWI – 15,000,000
Russian Civil War – 9,000,000
Stalinism – 20,000,000
WWII – 60,000,000
Chinese Civil War – 2,500,000
Mao Zedong’s regime – 40,000,000
Where does someone get this idea that ‘Judaeo-Christian’ doctrine is responsible for great bloodshed?! From Atheistic Darwinists primarily.
Victor Marshall(Quote)
View CommentI think that Geanna was speaking of Judaeo-Christian beliefs and practices.
I think Darwin would have been abhored by Nazism, Atheistic Communism, Stalinism, and Maoism. You’re seriously stretching the attribution to Darwinism. Evolutionary biologists have a strong interest in learning the biological bases of behavior, but the vast majority do not seek to justify human behavior, particularly in the forms of these belief systems. I’m not an atheistic Darwinist, but I’ll be the first to agree that religion has been a motivator for considerable bloodshed on this planet–and you and I most SDAs know that it will happen again.
I’m sure all SDAs resent any connection between the Waco massacre and Ellen White or Adventism.
Professor Kent(Quote)
View CommentDr. Kendall, would you think it fair to say that there is a difference between academic discourse between two colleagues to “theorize cconcepts at great length without necessarily espousing those concepts as truth” and the statement by a professor indicating that the ideas of Creation are basically B*** S***?
You cannot in fairness say that what has been going on at LSU is merely academic theorizing between colleages. It isn’t, and hasn’t been. For them to teach evolution as fact is nothing more or less than indoctrination into beliefs contrary to the express written statements of scripture. That is the point of this site.
As a community of believers we believe the events described in scripture (the 6 literal days of creation) are historical and are inspired and authoritative as the voice of God. How can a person claim to be an Adventist (one who believes in the Divine inspiration of Scripture), and yet go against everything (in this context) that scripture teaches? It simply is not possible to do!
LSU needs to come clean on this, and make a fundamental decision: either realign itself with Adventism (and by extension Scripture), or quit claiming to be a Seventh Day Adventist university. They cannot be both Adventists and Darwinists at the same time. It simply is not possible!
JohnB(Quote)
View CommentVictor Marshall, You’re absolutely correct. Dictators generally LOVE “Darwinism” as it gives them an “excuse” to eliminate all those “weaker” subspecies and races in order to have THEIR “higher evolved” group “improve” the human race.
Ron Stone M.D(Quote)
View CommentI’m not sure dictators in general favor Darwinian based eugenics. Certainly Hitler did. That has been very clearly established (the film ‘expelled’ explores this very well). Many dictators establish their regimes based upon the demonization and extermination of other racial or ethnic groups. This may or may not be based upon Darwinian assumptions. It may just be based on the need to use hatred as an engine to drive their regime.
The dictators responsible for the most carnage in recent history were Hitler, Stalin and Mao. These men were probably all psychopaths. Such persons have no conscience and have an insatiable lust for power over other human beings. Satan harnesses these types of people (even through outright possession) to effect as much destruction as possible.
Lenin, Stalin, and Mao’s marxist/atheism had underpinnings in Darwinism. After all, Marx and Engels were definitely enamored of Darwin. In 1861 Marx wrote:
“Darwin’s work is most important and suits my purpose in that it provides a basis in natural science for the historical class struggle.”
The almost inseparable connection between atheism and Darwinism is thoroughly obvious and well documented. Darwinism does not always produce atheists, but very few atheists are not also Darwinists. Atheism is a good fit for a demonic psychopath. The outright denial of God or a higher authority(as well as resulting efforts to exterminate religion and Christianity specifically) must give much satisfaction to Satanic agencies and their psychopathic pawns.
The other side of the coin is Satan’s efforts to supplant the true faith with a counterfeit one. The classic example of this is the Roman Catholic reign of terror in the Dark Ages. Dictator psychopaths were also in charge of the destructive carnage, and also attempted to eradicate the true faith through violence.
All of these examples were to one degree or another what could be classified as cults (though not always in a strictly ‘religious’ sense). Fuhrer and emperor worship. The personality cults established around Lenin, Stalin, and Mao. The deification of caesars and popes. All of these instances could be characterized as psychopathic cult type phenomenon. Waco and Jonestown are just further examples of the same types of destructive, psychopath led phenomenon, on a smaller scale.
Satan will use what ever means possible to accomplish his purposes. Either religion or irreligion. The one constant seems to be the use of psychopathic leaders. The worst atrocities of modern times were orchestrated by mostly irreligious psychopaths, not religious ones. The final attempt to eradicate the faithful prophecied in Revelation 13 etc. will of course be a religious one (most specifically ‘christian’).
Victor Marshall(Quote)
View CommentVictor, your recent post on psychopaths was excellent. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
Geanna Dane(Quote)
View CommentMaybe Dawkins some others can figure out what some of the rest of us have; If you want to know who and what God is, well just ask Him and read His Word with a humble, teachable attitude as a student/learner-and not someone who has already passed judgment on God. Yes it is quite sad, and we should have real sympathy and compassion like Jesus did for the unbelievers because we know their final end if things don’t change.
Mat 7:13 Enter you in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leads to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leads to life, and few there be that find it.
Steve Billiter(Quote)
View CommentJohn,
A “must read?” Me thinks not.But thanks for the vocabulary lesson! Once we know thoroughly the Word of God, then errors are easily discerned.If one is writing a review for the purposes of exposing a dangerous, popular book than it has to be read. In that case,I would just chalk it up to doing an unpleasant work in the face of duty.
Psa 101:3 I will set no wicked thing before my eyes: I hate the work of them that turn aside; it shall not stick to me.
Infidel Authors.–Another source of danger against which we should be constantly on guard is the reading of infidel authors. Such works are inspired by the enemy of truth, and no one can read them without imperiling the soul. It is true that some who are affected by them may finally recover; but all who tamper with their evil influence place themselves on Satan’s ground, and he makes the most of his advantage. As they invite his temptations, they have not wisdom to discern or strength to resist them. With a fascinating, bewitching power unbelief and infidelity fasten themselves upon the mind. {AH 413.2}
In order to obtain an education, many think it essential to study the writings of infidel authors, because these works contain many bright gems of thought. But who was the originator of these gems of thought? It was God, and God only. He is the Source of all light. Why, then, should we wade through the mass of error contained in the works of infidels for the sake of a few intellectual truths, when all truth is at our command? {CT 378.1}
How is it that men who are at war with the government of God come into possession of the wisdom which they sometimes display? Satan himself was educated in the heavenly courts, and he has a knowledge of good as well as of evil. He mingles the precious with the vile, and this is what gives him power to deceive. But because Satan has robed himself in garments of heavenly brightness, shall we receive him as an angel of light? The tempter has his agents, educated according to his methods, inspired by his spirit, and adapted to his work. Shall we co-operate with them? Shall we receive the works of his agents as essential to the acquirement of an education? {CT 378.2}
Science and the Bible
We would not discourage education, nor put a low estimate on mental culture and discipline. God would have us students as long as we remain in the world. Every opportunity for culture should be improved. The faculties need to be strengthened by exercise, the mind is to be trained and expanded by taxing study; but all this may be done while the heart is becoming an easy prey to deception. Wisdom from above must be communicated to the soul. It is the entrance of God’s word that “giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple.” Psalm 119:130. His word is given for our instruction; there is nothing in it that is defective or misleading. The Bible is not to be tested by men’s ideas of science, but science is to be brought to the test of the unerring standard. {CT 425.2}
Steve Billiter(Quote)
View CommentKevin is correct, but we can make some distinctions here. We know that God “winked at ignorance” and there will be multitudes who kept Sunday in heaven. However, 7th day Adventists teach and believe that the soon-coming mark of the beast is all about Sunday vs. Saturday worship and just who it is we give our loyalty too.
Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commands all men every where to repent:
I hear all the time that some doctrine “is not a salvational issue.” No doubt some aren’t-standing alone. But we also know that Satan will lead a person one wrong step at a time until he is in complete rebellion and unbelief does its baleful work. These matters have eternal consequences for sure.
Unbelief as opposed to short-term ignorance is very dangerous, as a person can only reject truth for so long and then at some point God will give them over to the lies they love. Belief starts in the mind and then affects behavior for good or evil. So just like the children of Israel were standing on the edge of the promised land and could not enter in for another 40 years; millions today stand on the brink of eternity struggling with unbelief. Who will believe the plain Word of God, and then obey Him and enter in through the gates?
2Th 2:10 And with all delusion of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Steve Billiter(Quote)
View Comment@Eddie: “Can and will” does not imply this is so in every case. EGW makes it clear that ignorant Sundaykeepers will [though not in every case] be in heaven.
Adam Hendron(Quote)
View CommentThe irony here that so few of you recognize is that Clifford Goldstein is, himself, a most unwitting Seventh-day Darwinian.
If he believes (as I am prone to) that the only living life forms (terrestrial life forms, at least) that survived the great deluge were upon Noah’s Ark (as stated clearly by the Bible and Ellen White) a mere 4,000 years ago, then he actually believes much of today’s extraordinary biodiversity has evolved at evolutionary rates far faster than any “evolutionist” has claimed.
Shocked? Skeptical? Angry? Read more from my posts at DR. GERATY CLARIFIES HIS “CHALLENGE†TO LITERAL 6-DAY CREATIONISM.
I am finished here and won’t be answering questions. May the Force be with you.
Professor Kent(Quote)
View Comment@Sean Pitman:
Major Sean Pitman
1] I think you should read a little more on the history of Adventism and Nazis, You quickly gravitate to Goodwins law and invoke concentration camps as a consequence of straying from literalism but you conveniently omit the fact that the Adventist church in Germany was highly supportive of Hitler and must also be held culpable for the consequences.
2] Oh how quickly we forget our pacifist origins, a literal reading of Matt 5 and our current official church position on war.
3] Apropos of Nazis, Goldstein has been quoted out of context in this thread. If I recall he suggested that Adventist Nazis would be a better fit than Adventist Darwinians. As I pointed about above history has indeed shown that in this he is absolutely correct.
4] On the science. Any science. I find it truly remarkable that you, Goldstein and others that flock around this site should know so much and the thousands of scientists that spend all their waking hours trying to understanding the universe should know so little and be so patently wrong. I wonder whether you would think the same if you actually engaged in science rather than viewed it from afar. Would you think the same and have the same arrogance if you had a Herschl index beyond 20. Do you ever pause in a brief moment of introspection, pray or contemplation to consider that maybe you could possibly be wrong in even some minor way.
5] How do you reconcile a gospel of Grace and acceptance that I read in the Gospels with the exclusionary vision and purge mentality that is manifest on this site and in the writings of Clifford Goldstein. Is your idea of pastoral care simply doctrinal purity or do you think that “feed my sheep” may actually mean showing the Grace compassion and care that seems to be inherent in the Gospel account of the life of Jesus? I know little about the origin of the world but I do know Christian Grace when I see it and I do not see it is the current call for purging or exclusion.
Unfortunately Bob Ryan has completely corrupted the salutation “In Christ” to mean “Praise God and pass the ammunition”
I do pray that the Grace of Christ may be manifest in his Church.
pauluc(Quote)
View Comment“Nazism is based on the philosophical argument of the “survival of the fittestâ€. Hitler did in fact believe in the concept of the German or Aryan “Super Race†– a very Darwinian idea.”
Since I am feeling lazy tonight I’ll just post a link to an article that may help you out here. Although this article mostly focused on Blavatsky being influenced by Darwin’s idea, it had much more to do with occultism than anything.
http://blog.beliefnet.com/kingdomofpriests/2010/03/darwin-at-the-mountains-of-madness-evolution-the-occult.html
Nathan(Quote)
View CommentMr. Goldstein deserves much applause for his fearless expose` of the theistic evolutionists in our midst. More men in responsible positions need to take their unswerving places beside him. Not only are the concepts or beliefs of these “Darwinians” so utterly reprehensible and preposterous from a rational standpoint, but they deal an irreparable blow to the truth of Adventism and the Three Angels’ Messages, where we are called to worship a Creator God on the Sabbath based on His bringing everything into existence in six literal days. It would seem to me that simple honesty would dictate that these men who attempt to paint God as a heartless monster by their evolutionary teachings, should voluntarily leave our ranks and join a communion where they would be more welcome. Failing their voluntary departure, I believe the larger body of believers has a role to weed out these sorry elements, lest they contaminate the minds of our young people with their heresy.
Sudhir K. Pandit, MD(Quote)
View CommentPauluc – Less heat – more light please.
A substantive point for discussion would be a good start.
1. Hint: “Thousands of scientists” reject the mythology of evolutionism.
2. In fact – scientists like Colin Patterson are on record as deploring the distinctively religious nature of the argument for evolutionism so often parroted by those who accept evolution as if it were “revealed truth”.
Here is an interesting case in point —
Colin Patterson (Senior paleontologist at the British Natural History Museum and author of the Museum’s general text on evolution)
A 1981 lecture presented at New York City’s American Museum of Natural History
Colin PATTERSON:
“…I’m speaking on two subjects, evolutionism and creationism, and I believe it’s true to say that I know nothing whatever about either…One of the reasons I started taking this anti-evolutionary view,well, let’s call it non-evolutionary , was last year I had a sudden realization.
“For over twenty years I had thought that I was working on evolution in some way. One morning I woke up, and something had happened in the night, and it struck me that I had been working on this stuff for twenty years, and there was not one thing I knew about it. “That was quite a shock that one could be misled for so long…
It does seem that the level of knowledge about evolution is remarkably shallow. We know it ought not to be taught in high school, and perhaps that’s all we know about it…
about eighteen months ago…I woke up and I realized that all my life I had been duped into taking evolutionism as revealed truth in some way.”
Here is a case where evolutionists admit to “projecting” the flaws in their own by-faith-alone argument onto Creationists.
in Christ,
Bob
BobRyan(Quote)
View Comment@Professor Kent:
As usual – Kent is shocked that the readers can easily observe that Irish Wolf hounds and Chihuahua’s “exist” and do not require millions of years for that level of diversity in body plan.
A little something we call “variation within a static genome” where “static genome” inolves a genome having essentially the same coding genes.
When the evoutionist tries the misdirection game in an effort to peddle the modern alchemy that “birds come from reptiles” he will often try to ignore the Irish Wolf Hound — – Chihuahua problem.
Oh well –
in Christ,
Bob
BobRyan(Quote)
View CommentAs usual, Bob is shocked that Professor Kent would believe something that he imagined Professor Kent stated or believes.
– Professor Kent made no mention of Irish Wolf hounds or Chihuahas, which are not different subspecies much less species and have no bearing whatsoever on Professor Kent’s argument.
– Professor Kent never suggested that millions of years were required to produce different phenotypes of a single species.
– Professor Kent never claimed that “birds come from reptiles,” a claim which lacks any analogy whatsoever to differentiation among dog breeds.
I know I’m seen by some as the mean person here, but look at what other people write. Where is your integrity, Bob? Or do you really lack the insight on biology you want us to believe you possess?
Oh well –
Christ indwelling,
Geanna
Geanna Dane(Quote)
View Comment@pauluc:
Major Pitman
I am sorry to say that your knee jerk responses once again are clearly so narrowly focussed that you cannot even reason on the topic. You clearly do not believe or acknowledge that Adventists were supporters of German imperialism and its consequences.
Please read the following extract from a book on the topic
@NaziAdventists
and the link from the review.
@Adventist review
Why would the church apologize if they did no support the actions of Hitler?
You say “I don’t think anyone who really loved his/her neighbor would have been supportive of Hitler’s Holocaust. Many didn’t realize much about Hitler’s ideology when he first took power – including many in the SDA Church within and even outside of Germany during the early stages of WWII”.
I do not think you actually understand the point of Rom 7. We everyone of us are capable of great evil and to pretend we would somehow have acted differently is to deceive ourselves. We all are selfish and sinful to the day we die and all are capable of being moved by propaganda and misinformation and supporting Hitler and the Holocaust. Or of supporting Ugandas current action against gays. Or dare I say vigilante action against teachers at Adventist colleges. Our only salvation is through the grace of God and that does not confer on us perfection in action or thought.
I believe the Adventists that joined the Nazis were all good and honest well meaning people who were simply following orders. Like you they believed in law and order and the importance of structure just as you opined in your last paragraphs. Fanatacism is always a danger whatever the favoured topic and that manifest on this site is no less dangerous. I know you believe you are on a “mission from God” but there is no more dangerous person than one who is fighting a cosmic war for all the normal measures of decent and ethical behaviour become subservient to the cause. I am even more uneasy when one of the leaders as a militarist does not even seem able to critically evaluate the church’s actions and history, acknowledge that the church has episodes of which we should be ashamed and an historical and current position on military action that has been well articulated by its president.
@adventist world
What irony. You personally want to have the right to justify support the American imperial machine against the clear advice of the church but do not want to give the right of dissent to those who seek to honestly follow God in the area of science and religion.
Lastly I think it is totally disingenuous to argue you are not making moral judgements. You are accusing those at LSU and elsewhere who do not accept literalistic interpretation but who have given their lives to support the work and teachings of the SDA church of being dishonest for expecting some reward for their service. To me that is a moral judgement however you may dress it up.
pauluc(Quote)
View Commentmissing links are
“http://www.adventistreview.org/article.php?id=92”
“http://www.adventistreview.org/article.php?id=92”
“http://www.adventistworld.org/article.php?id=268”
pauluc(Quote)
View Comment“http://www.everythingimportant.org/seventhdayAdventists/NaziAdventists.htm”
pauluc(Quote)
View CommentThe REAL problem (and inevitable outcome) in all this supposedly ‘harmless airing’ of this new philosophy and many other alternative viewpoints on such lofty themes, would be in what has obviously happened: the setting aside of the biblical accounts as merely one of many POSSIBLE explanations of origins. At risk of sounding biased, or even narrowly viewpointed, I will unequivocally state, here and now, that, unless one is thoroughly read and completely ‘educated’ as to what the Holy Word is really saying and really worth, one can NEVER be ready to realize what these many alternative viewpoints are: utter nonsense and trash, and cleverly-devised and demonically-inspired fables!
G. Stansal(Quote)
View Comment@pauluc:
Pauluc,
I notice that in your last post you have a link to Eugene Shubert’s site. Are you associated with Mr. Shubert in some way?
Victor
Victor Marshall(Quote)
View CommentExactly! Because none of us can truly “understand” what God’s word “really says” we gotta get a dozen or more “experts” to give us their interpretation of what it COULD mean, then take our pick! Pure rubbish!
Ron Stone M.D.(Quote)
View CommentThe undermining of scripture has been going on for years in Adventism. The creation/evolution thing is simply the outcome of many years of continual attack on the bible in the church.
For the most part, novices have taken a front row seat and hold the “bully pulpit” in the SDA church. Now they bicker among themselves about issues and politics and church government has taken the place of pure bible truth.
This is where “Pluralism” leads us to. What did you expect?
Bill Sorensen
Bill Sorensen(Quote)
View CommentYou’re right on target, Bill. The “Gospel of Pluralism” and the “Gospel of Inclusion” are nowhere to be found in scripture, except in the fantasy minds of progressives!
Ron Stone M.D.(Quote)
View Comment[As previously discussed, such posts on the assumed immorality of those who hold to various doctrinal errors are off topic and will not be posted in this forum – EdTruth]
Keep the faith
Bill Sorensen
Bill Sorensen(Quote)
View CommentI been reading all those comments. Do they make sense? No !! This is Satan’s idea to bring discord with in our SDA schools and churches. Instead staying focused on the scripture and readiness for Christ coming we are indulging time of some theological ideas that totally make no sense, because they contradict scripture. Do we need more theory? and from Whom?
Satan’s idea is to create confusion among God’s people.
Goldstein, not to long presented a talk at Weimar Institute. I watched him talk, He appeared perplexed his subject of presentation was all mixed up and confusing. It had not foundation and point. He was jumping from subject to subject, he was moving all over the platform, scratching his head, looking in to his I-phone or what ever it was in his hand, passing up and down with a disruptive spirit.
I was sad to see him so discordant and so disorganized in his talk. Was the spirit of the Lord there with him. It appears as he was struggling for wards what and how to say. You can hear him at http://www.weimartv.com (look in archives Goldstein)
I heard him long time ago once or twice when he represented Religious Liberty and when he spoke of his conversion. He was never in that kind of state of mind.
I encourage any reader of this to go to http://WWW.CHICK.COM/the testimony of Alberto. Please read all article toward the end you will see what Alberto’s position was, what he was trained for.
Read and see Who are the Wolfs in the Sheep’s skin and where they like to graze.
I pray that Lord’s Spirit prevail and that each person be grounded in the scripture, and no other theory.
Hope Sekulic(Quote)
View CommentAnyone who reads the Bible will see that, especially under Moses and Joshua, the Israelites invaded, plundered, pillaged, took the lands of their neighbors and also took some of them as slaves! The Old Testament is FILLED with BLOODSHED–MAN’s INHUMANITY TO MAN! No matter what you choose to call it or however you choose to rationalize or justify it, the fact is that one group of humans were pitted against other groups and engaged in CRUELTY, BRUTALITY AND BLOODSHED just like that of the “pagans” THEY WERE ALLOWED TO EXTERMINATE!!!
Imagine a group of people who invade you, grab your lands, kill your people- even women and children and BABIES in the arms of mothers- and then say that they had come to TEACH YOU ABOUT THE LOVE, MERCY AND COMPASSION OF THEIR GOD! Yeah, I bet that such treatment would really inspire you to want to love and accept their God and convert ot their religion, right?
Those who would say that some of Judeo/Christian teachings and practice never caused war and bloodshed and atrocities probably never read the Old Testament! If they did, then they should also be willing to say that some of the teachings and practices of Islam NEVER CAUSED BLOODSHED among humans.
Mahabir Ramkhelawan(Quote)
View Comment@Mahabir Ramkhelawan:
Imagine a group of Nazis who had terrorized the world with their brutality. Would it not be in love to the world, and even to the Nazis themselves, to remove the Nazis from the planet?
In reading the brutal stories of the Old Testament, you need to consider that the story at hand is not the whole story – that God would not simply give a command to wipe out a group of people for no good reason, or if there were any hope at all of converting them to a more peaceful or holy state of existence…
Sean Pitman
http://www.DetectingDesign.com
Sean Pitman(Quote)
View Comment“Christian” teachings were not officially around in 1400 B.C.
Your statements sound more like those of an unbeliever than a believer. Even if you are just ‘playing the devil’s advocate’ it seems hardly appropriate in this context. You may have read the Old Testament but I’m not sure you have understood it if you feel compelled to loudly exclaim such statements.
Why not go one further. The Bible says that God exterminated the entire human race with water (except 8 persons), and promises to eradicate the majority of the human race again with fire – then raise them from the dead a final time and thoroghly annihilate them.
If a person really understands the Old and New Testament then they would realize that this is indeed a description of the one true living God of love. Why? Because of the nature and consequences of free-will, sin, and evil. Because of the Great Controversy between Christ and Satan necessitating the excising of sin from the universe. Because of Christ’s substituionary sacrifice predicted in the Old Testament and fulfilled in the New.
God was not willing to allow even wicked men deserving of death to experience anything that He himself wasn’t willing to suffer innocently in His own person on the cross.
After the cross, true Judeo-Christian teachings (and the true understanding of them) are never responsible for violence. Only the opposite.
True Judeo-Christian teachings would certainly not compell someone to exclaim that Judeo-Christian teachings and practice are responsible for wars bloodshed and atrocities.
Have you thought about accepting ‘The Prince of Peace’ as your savior?
Victor Marshall(Quote)
View CommentSo, Mahabir, Are you saying God is or was “cruel?” Are you in the position to “judge” God and his actions? If so, you will have many places in the Bible to “judge” God. Or do you just throw out those sections as “noninspired” or actually not true?
Ron Stone M.D.(Quote)
View CommentThose who make an issue of this ignore this very simple truth: As shown in the book of Revelation, Jesus plans to take the land and lives of billions of human beings regardless of age when Christ comes again. He did the same sort of thing with the flood. To indict the Bible and the people of God for acts that are similar is to indict God. I would suggest that those who do this are in deep dangerous water. Sort of takes your breath away to think of the foolishness of man-sized power and reasoning taking on the All-knowing Almighty Living God.
Bradley Williams(Quote)
View Comment@Mahabir Ramkhelawan:
Interesting “Bible is evil – stay away from the evil Bible” solution you are proposing. What brings you to that topic? Finding a defense for evolutionism?
Curious minds want to know.
in Christ,
Bob
BobRyan(Quote)
View CommentWhere exactly did Mahabir Ramkhelawan say “Bible is evil”? Was there some kind of hidden code that you could decipher or are you just being provocative?
Geanna Dane(Quote)
View CommentRon Stone M.D(Quote)
View CommentI’m just sad that this is even a subject of discussion at all. We need to believe a “Thus saith the Lord” without question. The Scriptures clearly tell us that God created the world in seven literal days, out of nothing. For the earth was without form and void. I believe that this whole
mess is just another of Satan’s attempts to get our minds off of what is really important, the fact the Jesus is coming soon and we need to be getting ready. We need to be telling the world to get ready.
Why would I waste my time reading any other book when I have the Scriptures that would never lead me astray.
Marta Thomas(Quote)
View Comment@Hope Sekulic
Hope,
Are you suggesting that Goldstein’s difficulties in speaking at Weimar are a result of Satan sowing discord and confusion in the church generally, or an attack on him specifically? I was not sure.
I am familiar with the theories stating that Jesuit infiltrators are everywhere, seeking to destroy the church. An SDA pastor friend of mine had his church’s website “denounced” by the “Adventist Liberation Front.” I am familiar with Fr. Alberto Rivera’s testimony that the Jesuit order is the wolf in sheep’s clothing. Interestingly, I get testimonies from a number of friends who have left the SDA church asserting that Adventism is the wolf in sheep’s clothing. Which am I to believe, as both sides have equally heart-wrenching horror stories to tell? Maybe both of them, or maybe neither. I am friends with a number of Jesuit and other Catholic priests through my research in the Philippines (my wife is Jesuit-educated), as well as very many Adventists of different backgrounds (having been a life-long SDA in Arizona, Southern California, Taiwan and the Philippines). I have to say in all honesty that when I look for Christ-centered attitudes, kindness and service towards one’s fellow man, I have often noted these attributes to be significantly stronger among the Catholic priests. Some have told me that this is their deception, their apparition as Satan as an angel of light. However, I have only Christ’s statement, to know them by their fruits. This does not cause me to want to leave my church, but rather expect it to be better; to bear sweeter fruit.
Pax,
David Kendall, PhD
Adjunct Professor of Music
La Sierra University
David Kendall, PhD(Quote)
View Comment@Marta Thomas:
In Mark 7 Christ says “in vain to the worship me – teaching for doctrine the commandments of men”.
Replacing the Word of God with manmade traditions, guesswork and supposition is an ancient art.
But Bible students need not be deceived by it – as you point out.
in Christ,
Bob
BobRyan(Quote)
View Comment@David Kendall, PhD:
It is understandable for a non Adventist to not ‘comprehend’ God, but as His peculiar people….
[He]caused them to go forth out of the land of Egypt, and brought them into the wilderness….
And I gave them my statutes, and shewed them my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them.
Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.ezekiel 19:1-12
The Sabbath is about knowing God – those who don’t ‘comprehend’ or know His Holiness, are those who refuse to hear or rebel….
stefanie frankle(Quote)
View CommentThe Bible and Spirit of prophecy are all we need to know the truth. We know in the last days that the devil is working to destroy God’s people. We must stand on the walls and fill the breach in the walls. True Seventh Day Adventist do not believe in evolution. It is not in Gods word, stand on wall and fill in the gaps. Jesus is coming again and He will take home His people who live by every word that procceds out of the mouth of God. Higher education is what has caused all of this to beign with, thinking we know more than the Creator.
Tricia(Quote)
View CommentThis is the real PRESENT TRUTH ISSUE!
And what the Sabbath School ‘author’ say’s on Fridays October 28th Discussion Questions: (?)
[1] Even today in our own church some still have a hard time accepting salvation by faith alone—that God’s grace, through Christ, saves us, apart from our works. What’s behind the hesitancy of some to accept this ctucial truth?
[2] Paul spoke very strongly about the theological error of salvation by works. What does that tell us about the importance of good theology? Why should we, as a church, stand up, forcefully if need be, when error is being taught among us?
Summary: From start to finish in the Christian life, the basis of our salvation is in Christ Jesus alone.It was because of Abraham’s faith in God’s promises that he was counted as rightous, and that same fift of rightousness is available for anyone today who shares Abraham’s faith..’
(and Adventist friend, if you want to know what Abraham’s FAITH was & [[WHY GOD CALLED HIM IN THE FIRST PLACE?]] Go find out in Gen. 26:5! ‘It was BECAUSE Abraham ‘OBEYED MY VOICE’! And then read what it was that he obeyed!)
C.S. pg. 109
‘If we gain eternal life, we must work and work earnestly … let us not [be deceived by the oft repeated assertion , all you have to do is believe].’
E.W. pg. 114
‘Some expect to overcome alone by the blood of the lamb without making any effort of their own.’
W.M. pg. 44
‘Every one who is finally crowned victor will by noble determined effort to serve God, have earned the right to be clothed with Christ’s righteousness.’
______________
Selected Messages Book 1 – 60
Chap. 60 – Relation of Faith and Works
[APPEARED IN NOTEBOOK LEAFLETS, THE CHURCH, NO. 5.]
Napier, New Zealand
April 9, 1893
Brother A. T. Jones:
I was attending a meeting, and a large congregation were present. In my dream you were presenting the subject of faith and the imputed righteousness of Christ by faith. You repeated several times that works amounted to nothing, that there were no conditions. The matter was presented in that light that I knew minds would be confused, and would not receive the correct impression in reference to faith and works, and I decided to write to you. You state this matter too strongly. There are conditions to our receiving justification and sanctification, and the righteousness of Christ. I know your meaning, but you leave a wrong impression upon many minds. While good works will not save even one soul, yet it is impossible for even one soul to be saved without good works. God saves us under a law, that we must ask if we would receive, seek if we would find, and knock if we would have the door opened unto us.
Christ offers Himself as willing to save unto the uttermost all who come unto Him. He invites all to come to Him. “Him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out” (John 6:37). You look in reality upon these subjects as I do, yet you make these subjects, through your expressions, confusing to minds. And after you have expressed your mind radically in regard to works, when questions are asked you upon this very subject, it is not lying out in so very clear lines, in your own mind, and you cannot define the correct principles to other minds, and you are yourself unable to make your statements harmonize with your own principles and faith.
The young man came to Jesus with the question, “Good Master, what shall I do, that I may inherit eternal life?” (Mark 10:17). And Christ saith unto him, “Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.” He saith unto Him, “Which?” Jesus quoted several, and the young man said unto Him, “All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?” Jesus said unto him, “If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.” Here are conditions, and the Bible is full of conditions. “But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions” (Matt. 19:17, 20, 21, 22).
Points to Guard
Then when you say there are no conditions, and some expressions are made quite broad, you burden the minds, and some cannot see consistency in your expressions. They cannot see how they can harmonize these expressions with the plain statements of the Word of God. Please guard these points. These strong assertions in regard to works never make our position any stronger. The expressions weaken our position, for there are many who will consider you an extremist, and will lose the rich lessons you have for them upon the very subjects they need to know. . . . My brother, it is hard for the mind to comprehend this point, and do not confuse any mind with ideas that will not harmonize with the Word. Please to consider that under the teaching of Christ many of the disciples were lamentably ignorant; but when the Holy Spirit that Jesus promised came upon them and made the vacillating Peter the champion of faith, what a transformation in his character! But do not lay one pebble, for a soul that is weak in the faith to stumble over, in overwrought presentations or expressions. Be ever consistent, calm, deep, and solid. Do not go to any extreme in anything, but keep your feet on solid rock. O precious, precious Saviour. “He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him” (John 14:21).
This is the true test–the doing of the words of Christ. And it is the evidence of the human agent’s love to Jesus, and he that doeth His will giveth to the world the practical evidence of the fruit he manifests in obedience, in purity, and in holiness of character. . . .
O my brother, walk carefully with God. But remember that there are some whose eyes are intently fixed upon you, expecting that you will overreach the mark, and stumble, and fall. But if you keep in humility close to Jesus, all is well. . . .
There is no place in the school of Christ where we graduate. We are to work on the plan of addition, and the Lord will work on the plan of multiplication. It is through constant diligence that we will, through the grace of Christ, live on the plan of addition, making our calling and election sure. . . . “For if ye do these things ye shall never fall: for so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ” (2 Peter 1:10, 11).–Letter 44, 1893.
No Compromise With Sin
Let my brethren be very careful how they present the subject of faith and works before the people, lest minds become confused. The people need to be urged to diligence in good works. They should be shown how to be successful, how to be purified, and their offerings may be fragrant before God. It is by virtue of the blood of Christ. Messages of a decided character must be borne to the people. Men must go forth reproving, rebuking every manner of evil.
If there is given to the angel of any church a commission like unto that given to the angel of the church of Ephesus, let the message be heard through human agents rebuking carelessness, backsliding, and sin, that the people may be brought to repentance and confession of sin. Never seek to cover sin; for in the message of rebuke, Christ is to be proclaimed as the first and the last, He who is all in all to the soul.
His power awaits the demand of those who would overcome. The reprover is to animate his hearers so that they shall strive for the mastery. He is to encourage them to struggle for deliverance from every sinful practice, to be free from every corrupt habit, even if his denial of self is like taking the right eye, or separating the right arm from the body. No concession or compromise is to be made to evil habits or sinful practices.–Manuscript 26a, 1892.
Cooperation With God
Man is to cooperate with God, employing every power according to his God-given ability. He is not to be ignorant as to what are right practices in eating and drinking, and in all the habits of life. The Lord designs that His human agents shall act as rational, accountable beings in every respect. . . .
We cannot afford to neglect one ray of light God has given. To be sluggish in our practice of those things which require diligence is to commit sin. The human agent is to cooperate with God, and keep under those passions which should be in subjection. To do this he must be unwearied in his prayers to God, ever obtaining grace to control his spirit, temper, and actions. Through the imparted grace of Christ, he may be enabled to overcome. To be an overcomer means more than many suppose it means.
The Spirit of God will answer the cry of every penitent heart; for repentance is the gift of God, and an evidence that Christ is drawing the soul to Himself. We can no more repent of sin without Christ, than we can be pardoned without Christ, and yet it is a humiliation to man with his human passion and pride to go to Jesus straightway, believing and trusting Him for everything which he needs. . . .
Let no man present the idea that man has little or nothing to do in the great work of overcoming; for God does nothing for man without his cooperation. Neither say that after you have done all you can on your part, Jesus will help you. Christ has said, “Without me ye can do nothing” (John 15:5). From first to last man is to be a laborer together with God. Unless the Holy Spirit works upon the human heart, at every step we shall stumble and fall. Man’s efforts alone are nothing but worthlessness; but cooperation with Christ means a victory. Of ourselves we have no power to repent of sin. Unless we accept divine aid we cannot take the first step toward the Saviour. He says, “I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end” (Rev. 21:6) in the salvation of every soul.
But though Christ is everything, we are to inspire every man to unwearied diligence. We are to strive, wrestle, agonize, watch, pray, lest we shall be overcome by the wily foe. For the power and grace with which we can do this comes from God, and all the while we are to trust in Him, who is able to save to the uttermost all who come unto God by Him. Never leave the impression on the mind that there is little or nothing to do on the part of man; but rather teach man to cooperate with God, that he may be successful in overcoming.
Let no one say that your works have nothing to do with your rank and position before God. In the judgment the sentence pronounced is according to what has been done or to what has been left undone (Matt. 25:34-40).
Effort and labor are required on the part of the receiver of God’s grace; for it is the fruit that makes manifest what is the character of the tree. Although the good works of man are of no more value without faith in Jesus than was the offering of Cain, yet covered with the merit of Christ, they testify {to} the worthiness of the doer to inherit eternal life. That which is considered morality in the world does not reach the divine standard and has no more merit before Heaven than had the offering of Cain.–Manuscript 26a, 1892.
While Submitting to the Holy Spirit
Everyone who has a realizing sense of what it means to be a Christian, will purify himself from everything that weakens and defiles. All the habits of his life will be brought into harmony with the requirements of the Word of truth, and he will not only believe, but will work out his own salvation with fear and trembling, while submitting to the molding of the Holy Spirit.–The Review and Herald, March 6, 1888.
Jesus Accepts Our Intentions
When it is in the heart to obey God, when efforts are put forth to this end, Jesus accepts this disposition and effort as man’s best service, and He makes up for the deficiency with His own divine merit. But He will not accept those who claim to have faith in Him, and yet are disloyal to His Father’s commandment. We hear a great deal about faith, but we need to hear a great deal more about works. Many are deceiving their own souls by living an easygoing, accommodating, crossless religion. But Jesus says, “If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.”–The Signs of the Times, June 16, 1890
newell hammond(Quote)
View CommentDo the Darwinian’s in Adventist institutions still have any integrity left? Will they leave to get their paychecks elsewhere? Unlikely, they are Darwinians, lacking any integrity, lacking any truth! They will cling on and continue to be deceitful that being the logical Darwinian character that they have developed from their faith in evolutionistic foundations! Truth is opposite to evolution, so don’t expect Darwinians to be ever truthful and just get up and leave tomorrow! Unlikely!
James Auto(Quote)
View Comment