Adventists have more freedom than members of many other denominations …

Comment on Defining Adventism: A poll by Erik.

Adventists have more freedom than members of many other denominations to interpret the Bible individually. I appreciate this, and wish it to continue. However, there is a limit to how far “off” one can go. I disagree with the “Fundamental Beliefs” in a number of places…but it is unlikely that my disagreements would put me greatly out of favor with other Adventists. Here are some examples:

3. Father:
God the eternal Father is the Creator, Source, Sustainer, and Sovereign of all creation….

I don’t believe the Father is the Creator. My Bible tells me this title belongs to Jesus. John summed it up nicely in his first chapter.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made…. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us…. (John 1:1-3, 14)

God the Father was not made flesh, so the “Word” of whom it is said that “All things were made by him” can be none other than Jesus Christ.

I also disagree with the first “Fundamental” in reference to the scriptures. The Bible defines what constitutes “scripture” and by its definition, Mrs. White’s writings are also “scripture” (given by inspiration of God, aren’t they?). So I do not limit scripture to just the Old and New Testaments, as the “Fundamentals” do.

There are other disagreements I have. But not a one of my beliefs contradicts Scripture. If I am shown from the Bible where my belief does not match, I will accept the truth and adjust my belief accordingly.

If Adventist professors are equally willing to grow in the light of truth, and to only differ with the “Fundamentals” where to do so follows the Bible even more closely, then I see no reason to “limit” their liberty. The “Fundamentals” should not really be our ultimate guide–that place is reserved for the Scriptures.

Erik

Erik Also Commented

Defining Adventism: A poll
Patrick,

The word “Lord” in Rev. 4:11 is the same Greek word which clearly refers to Jesus in other passages (see Matthew 7:21-22, 8:25, 12:8, etc.). Eph. 3:9 likewise speaks of any member of the Godhead, to include Jesus, in using “God.” This Greek word speaks specifically of Jesus in multiple places as well. I agree with you regarding the Sabbath. It is a clear sign that God created this world and created us, and He is therefore Lord of this world, the Sabbath, and us.

The discussion over to whom the title “Creator” belongs is a far better one than the one many so-called Christians are having over whether God was even involved in the creative process. This illustrates my point quite well, that there is a limit to the liberty and independence an Adventist institution or its employees can have from our fundamental beliefs. While I choose still to believe that Jesus is the Creator, and I have texts to support my view (and which clarify your texts to show they support my position too), I would never be so radical as to suppose that you or other Adventist employees should adhere to my view in place of yours, nor would I call for you or others to be fired for such a small difference.

But to teach agnostic, macro-evolution and/or “mainstream science” as if it were fact, and that God did not do what He said He did in the Bible (Creation, the Deluge, etc.) is pure, unadulterated foolishness (see 1 Corinthians 3:19). To know the Adventist message, and to have the privilege of God’s truth in our hands and yet _still_ covet the world’s praise by accepting its agnostic theories hook, line, and sinker–and to further scoff at those who would find fault with such fiction–is a significant step beyond foolishness. Can we safely allow such false shepherds to teach our lambs without being held accountable for it in the Judgment?

Erik


Recent Comments by Erik

CCC Requests “Decisive and Conclusive Resolution” from LSU
Dear Adventist in High School,

The devil frequently mixes just a small amount of error in with a larger amount of truth. This is sufficient to accomplish his purposes. He does not need to undermine every truth, only some select truths. The Bible tells us how to know whether or not we can accept something as pure and true: “To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them” (Isaiah 8:20). If what they say, even a part of it, does not agree with scripture, even the rest of what they have said is of no value according to this.

We have a saying in English that goes something like this:

A barrel full of sewage with one tablespoon of wine is sewage.
A barrel full of wine with one tablespoon of sewage is sewage.

It does not matter how much “wine” there may be with that sewage, the sewage has perverted the entirety.

Consider how entirely the “sewage” has perverted truth at LSU, given that one of the professors’ statements relegated Mrs. White to “the lunatic fringe” for “the absolute necessity of believing that the only way a creator God could do things is by speaking them into existence a few thousand years ago.” Mrs. White clearly informed us that Creation week was six literal days about six thousand years ago, and further, she has told us that God was not dependent upon pre-existing matter and could but speak them into existence. Yet all of that flies in the face of those who wish to believe their own opinions to be superior to inspiration, doesn’t it? It makes perfect sense that if they believe we evolved from apes, they could not believe what Ellen White taught was true.

Nay, the evolutionist “sewage” has defiled the pure and true at LSU, and its effect permeates the remaining departments of the university. One cannot contain such a far-reaching apostasy as this within a single corner or department of the university. Indeed, we have been given clear evidences that the theologians at the university have also been affected. Whither goes the biology department, and then the theology department, thither goes the whole school.

Erik


Mrs. White: “Don’t send your children to…”

“But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.” (John 1:12-13)

“For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.” (Romans 8:14)

“That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world.” (Philippians 2:15)

“Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.” (1 John 3:1-2)

We are the sons of God if we receive Christ and follow Him. The line of Seth did this, and were, therefore, called the sons of God. Cain’s descendants did not follow God, and were not called His sons.

Erik


Mrs. White: “Don’t send your children to…”

The descendants of Seth were called the sons of God–the descendants of Cain, the sons of men. As the sons of God mingled with the sons of men, they became corrupt, and by intermarriage with them, lost, through the influence of their wives, their peculiar, holy character, and united with the sons of Cain in their idolatry. Many cast aside the fear of God, and trampled upon his commandments. But there were a few who did righteousness, who feared and honored their Creator. Noah and his family were among the righteous few. {3SG 60.2}

After the translation of Enoch to heaven, the sons of men that were set against the worship of God were drawing away the sons of God. There were two parties in the world then, and there always will be. The worshipers of God called themselves the sons of God. The descendants of Seth went up into the mountains and there made themselves homes separate from the sons of Cain. Here in their mountainous homes they thought to preserve themselves from the prevailing wickedness and idolatry of the descendants of Cain. But after the exhortations and the influence of Enoch were removed from them, they commenced to unite with the descendants of Cain. {CTr 39.2}

That should help clarify the identity of the “sons of God.”

Erik


Mrs. White: “Don’t send your children to…”

It does our position no service to claim too much or to base too much on such large leaps into very thin air… claiming that this or that animal within the fossil record was the clear result of human genetic manipulation before the flood and for that reason was not saved on the Ark….

Sean,

It seems like Ellen White said “Every species of animals which God had created was preserved in the ark” (1 SP 78.2). Therefore, any species which became extinct at the time of the flood must necessarily have come about via amalgamation. That seems fairly clear. So we know where T-Rex came from, right?

Erik


Mrs. White: “Don’t send your children to…”
David,

Your logic is sound regarding what amalgamation cannot be properly applied to. Such applications as forbid certain inter-human marriages are racist, as you have said, and as I have attempted to express. I almost fully agree with your reasoning on this. However, I will differ slightly on one point, and that is that since we do not know how the amalgamations occurred, we cannot rule out the possibility of men tinkering with plant, animal, and human genetics by means of cross-breeding (as opposed to a more “laboratory” approach). They were very intelligent. Perhaps they knew ways of intermixing species which we would never guess could be mixed with any survivable result, including humans with animals.

So, on the lighter side, if evolutionists like to think they have descended from apes…maybe we should give them a fair hearing (and a DNA test)!

Erik