Report on LSU constituency meeting

Source: La Sierra University

La Sierra University’s constituency met to elect members of the Board Trustees, approve changes to university bylaws, and review the university’s financial status. The 76 session delegates convened on campus May 12.

Four individuals were elected to six-year terms on the university’s Board of Trustees:

  • Meredith Jobe, an attorney in Glendale, California and a La Sierra alumnus;
  • Alvin Kwiram, emeritus professor of chemistry at the University of Washington;
  • Alina Sanchez, co-founder of Spire, a marketing consulting firm, and a La Sierra alumna; and
  • James Kyle, MD, vice president of medical affairs at St. Mary Medical Center, interim pastor of the Tamarind Avenue Seventh-day Adventist church, and a La Sierra alumnus
  • Delegates also reappointed Henry Coil Jr., a Riverside businessman, to a second six-year term.

    Four board members concluded their service to the La Sierra at this session: Ron Zane, Sheila Marshall-McClean, Lowell Hanks, and Doug Nies. Delegates offered expressions of thanks for their efforts during their terms.

    La Sierra University’s Board of Trustees consists of 23 members, of which 14 are elected to rotating six-year terms. Constituents meet every two years to vote on bylaws, trustee nominations, and other matters. The Pacific Union Conference of Seventh-day Adventists, headquartered in Westlake Village, Ca., owns La Sierra University.

    Delegates heard a report, “Why La Sierra University Matters,” from President Randal Wisbey. “Our commitment to provide an exceptional Adventist university education happens each and every day at La Sierra University. In our classrooms and laboratories, our dedicated professors give their lives to fulfill their God-given mission of serving this church in higher education. And they do so by providing outstanding teaching in an environment that values academic integrity and deep spiritual commitment.

    “Here at La Sierra, students and faculty take advantage of many opportunities to think deeply within a context of faith in God,” Wisbey continued. “One professor recently said to me, ‘La Sierra matters because it’s a place where we celebrate certainty and curiosity, find joy in the dynamic interplay between faith and learning, and are open to conversation and challenge.’ ”

    Following Wisbey’s report, faculty and students from the departments of biology, psychology, religion, and education shared their experiences of intellectual and faith development.

    Jared Wright, a graduate student in religion, noted, “My teachers taught me to pray every day ‘Thy Kingdom come and Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven’ and to mean that when I say it. I’m not sure I will be a good pastor. I haven’t done this before. But this faculty at La Sierra University has given me the best tools and equipped me in the best way possible so that I go knowing that I couldn’t have a better preparation.” Wright graduates in June 2010, and has been hired to join the pastoral staff in the Southeastern California Conference.

    Members of the Chamber Singers presented three musical selections and gave their own personal testimony about faith and life at the university. Chris Oberg, senior pastor of the La Sierra University Church, discussed ways in which the church is reaching out to students and attempting to make them feel like a part of the church family.

    “When we say the next generation matters, what we hope will happen and we hope we will keep doing better is that we will meet the needs of the students right now,” Oberg said. “We will invite students to meet the needs of others right now. And while doing so, we are fostering leaders for our church.”

    Auditor Sheila Aultman of Ahern, Adcock & Devlin, LLP, presented the audited financial statement, which was accepted by the delegates. Aultman revealed La Sierra received an unqualified report, the best possible outcome from an audit process. David Geriguis, vice president for finance, shared additional information about the financial health of the university. Despite the fiscal turmoil being experienced both nationwide and in a particularly strong way in California’s Inland Empire region, Gerigus reported the university’s current financial situation positions the organization to weather this economic downturn period. Delegates also approved a bylaws change allowing for additional methods of electronic voting by trustees when business must be completed between regular board meetings.

    At the conclusion of the reports and required business, the delegates spent approximately 90 minutes addressing the issue currently facing the university about the way in which theories of origins are addressed in the curriculum. A number of delegates voiced their opinions on various sides of the issue. While many expressed support and appreciation for the university’s commitment to provide a comprehensive science education to its students, some delegates voiced concerns about how the church’s understanding of Biblical creation is included in the biology curriculum.

    After a thorough airing of the debate, Ricardo Graham, the chair of the Board of Trustees and chair of the meeting, brought the discussion and meeting to a close.

    “La Sierra University has been recognized by the Carnegie Foundation for community engagement—one of only 116 institutions of higher education in the nation to be so identified,” Wisbey reported. “While this is an honor and a benefit, let us also be clear. It is never the reason we do this work. La Sierra matters because our commitment to service makes certain that our students are prepared for a life of service, a life that will go on into eternity as they bring meaning and fulfillment to others. They learn here the joy of being the hands and feet of Christ in our world.

    “La Sierra University matters because we provide a place for students to develop a life-long love of learning within a deep and abiding faith that will nurture them for the rest of their lives,” Wisbey concluded.

    PR Contact: Larry Becker
    Executive Director of University Relations
    La Sierra University
    Riverside, California
    951.785.2460 (voice)

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    82 thoughts on “Report on LSU constituency meeting

    1. La Sierra could lay all of this controversy to rest. It could end the need for this website very easily, but not by:
      1. Saying faith is built at La Sierra
      2. Saying that La Sierra serves the church.
      3. Saying that La Sierra has a strong spiritual committment.
      4. Etc.

      None of these and like-minded statements will do the job. Only by saying that the institution and its teachers believe in and teach a recent (under 10,000 year) 6-literal day creation will do the trick. Easy! Just say that. After all, it is what the church teaches and believes. Controversy over. Headaches taken away. What is so hard about this? It is easy unless it isn’t true…

      Anything short of this has the appearance of mere political posturing.

      Brian




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    2. Brian your right,but it won’t happen because they don’t believe in a 6 day literal creation.
      It seems like a simple problem and it should be.
      Unfortunately many if not most of our science teachers are being decieved into thinking the available evidence requires them to disbelieve the creation account and the Bible. I’m love science myself, but we can’t know the past through current science or explain the working of God or sin on this earth.
      Even so I think there is ample evidence that we can use to show how a short age earth is possible. This information should be taught to our students along with showing the false conclusions “science” theorys promote.
      Teachers who believe these false theory’s can never teach Creationism, just as a true christian scientist can’t honestly teach long age evolution as truth. That is exactly why we have our own schools. If we want our students to have a worldy education, there is plenty of places to go.




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    3. Jonathan-
      I don’t think enough members/parents know the implications of this issue to effect enrollment. I would like to be wrong, but I know we have a huge number of cultural SDA’s in Calf who don’t see this as a problem.




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    4. Well, let’s put it this way. When I ran into an issue in my kids Adventist elementary/middle school and pulled them from it, I had members of my church approach me and tell me we had to “keep them in the school to show our support for the faith” (paraphrased). God help us if we have to support an institution when that specific (let me repeat specific) institution fails in its duties to God and the church.

      Russell




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    5. Clearly the developments in the science departments at La Sierra have not taken place in a vacuum. The theology department has preceded the sciences by some year in losing confidence in the Scriptures and in promoting belief in naturalism. If the situation is to be remedied, the following actions by the board at a minimum will be indications that they take this problem seriously:

      1. Replace the current president
      2. Replace two or three of the biology faculty
      3. Close down the School of Religion, releasing most of their faculty
      4. Start over again with a new department of religion.

      Short of these measures, other responses are just window dressing. What an insult to suggest adjusting the content of one course can possibly effect the needed change. I appeal to the board: Please act now to save my alma mater.




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    6. Dr. Chadwick. Is this your personal opinion or a statement representing Southwestern Adventist University? I’m amazed when individuals of one school publicly attack another.




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    7. We can be confident that Dr. Chadwick’s posited four “solutions” will be rejected by all reasonable and well-informed individuals concerned with the future of Adventist higher education in North America and specifically with the future of La Sierra University.

      If parents wish to have their college-age students attend an Adventist university which seeks to advance fundamentalist Adventist religious ideology, I suppose that they can always require them to attend the institution where Dr. Chadwick teaches.

      However, if they wish to expose their offspring to the best in contemporary Adventist Christian theological scholarship and first-rate scientific knowledge then La Sierra University is an excellent place to obtain their undergraduate education.




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    8. Having just reviewed the changes made in the LSU Board, it is apparent to me that the Board is being stacked with people who are in sympathy with the errant faculty at La Sierra. I am therefore less hopeful that the resolution of the problem can come from the Board at least until the errant administrators and faculty are no longer able to influence the choice of Board members.




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    9. I agree in part with Art. The religion department has been teaching for some time now that the scriptures are stories and not something that is necessarily fact. HOWEVER, there are some truly wonderful teachers in this department that need to be kept. They are fighting an uphill battle to teach their students of God’s love and the love of the God of creation and the God of the Bible. Let’s not be too quick to lump all the teachers in one big pile.




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    10. Dr. Chadwick, I agree with your four actions that should be taken. Unfortunately, I do not believe anything will be done. The situation here in California in our SDA Church is far too deep-rooted to be solved by the “foxes watching the henhouse!”




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    11. Patsy makes a valid point. When I stated “most of their [religion] faculty”, I was intending to exclude a few who still do support and teach the Bible as a reliable source of inspiration and truth. I appreciate your clarification. I might add that I sense that there are in most departments dedicated Adventists who believe and teach God’s Word.




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    12. Meredith Jobe, Alvin Kwiram, Alina Sanchez, and James Kyle: join the growing crowd of those criticized by name. You’re in good company!




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    13. As a 1982 Theology graduate of PUC during the “Desmond Ford Crisis”, I agree wholeheartedly with Dr. Chadwick. There needs to be a serious “housecleaning” at LSU. Taylor’s assertion that LSU presently offers “the best in contemporary Adventist Christian theological scholarship and first-rate scientific knowledge” is on par with Contemporary Christian music. [edit]

      To address Dr. Stone’s realitic fears, the parents themselves, or LSU’s primary financial supporters, must rise up and clamor for the original, “fundamentalist SDA faith”. To arouse the parents and supporters, they need to be made aware of what’s going on. Sound an alarm, blow the whistle, snatch the covers off by every means available!




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    14. @Art Chadwick:

      If the situation is to be remedied, the following actions by the board at a minimum will be indications that they take this problem seriously:

      1. Replace the current president
      2. Replace two or three of the biology faculty
      3. Close down the School of Religion, releasing most of their faculty
      4. Start over again with a new department of religion.

      Short of these measures, other responses are just window dressing. What an insult to suggest adjusting the content of one course can possibly effect the needed change. I appeal to the board: Please act now to save my alma mater.

      It all depends upon if the SDA Church really truly considers its current clearly stated “fundamental pillars of faith” to actually be “Fundamental”.

      If it does truly respect these beliefs as pillars of “present truth”, then it really has no choice but to follow Chadwick’s advice. Having the foxes manage the chicken house is no way to keep your chickens for very long. How can those who ardently oppose what the SDA Church stands for on the issue of origins be remotely capable of “bringing our young people home at the end of the day?” – to quote Jan Paulsen?

      However, if the SDA Church does not really believe that its pillars of faith are really all that “fundamental”, then it should follow Erv Taylor’s advice and allow LSU to continue as usual and dramatically revise its own “fundamental” pillars of faith.

      One way or another, something needs to be changed in the way the Church is currently functioning in order to move away from the current schizophrenia that is fragmenting the Church in many different directions. We need some real leadership who can guide in a definitive manner, one way or the other, during these difficult times in our Church’s history…

      Sean Pitman
      http://www.DetectingDesign.com




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    15. Thank you Art Chadwick for speaking up!

      While we sit and debate the different aspects of the LSU Creation/evolution
      debate, where are the denominational leaders and what do they have to say? The top levels of the GC and the Pacific Union as well as the Board of Trustees have been aware of the situation and been kept informed of the details regarding this controversy. Only the embarrassment of the Freshman
      Seminar videos prompts the review of one class. On the record from Paulson, Schneider and Graham on down, comments are to smooth the waters, but where do they stand? Step out from behind the scenes and “Stand, and be counted!” Thanks again Art Chadwick!




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    16. As one who went to Avondale College many years ago, it seems that we have not learnt much from the Desmond Ford issue and history is repeating itself. It is almost as though this chicken-watching fox has had a litter.




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    17. @Brian:

      La Sierra could lay all of this controversy to rest. It could end the need for this website very easily, but not by:
      1. Saying faith is built at La Sierra
      2. Saying that La Sierra serves the church.
      3. Saying that La Sierra has a strong spiritual committment.
      4. Etc.

      None of these and like-minded statements will do the job. Only by saying that the institution and its teachers believe in and teach a recent (under 10,000 year) 6-literal day creation will do the trick. Easy! Just say that. After all, it is what the church teaches and believes.

      Depends on what the goal is. If the goal is to lay to rest the drama that LSU has created where its own biology professors go on record as stumping for evolution and where the LSU Board of Directors has ostensibly asked that this be stopped — then yes your comments are correct.

      But if the real intent is to continue promotion of the evolutionism at LSU while experiencing the least amount of discomfort from objecting Adventists – then the model they provide above – painting a nice “faith face” in public to try and gloss over inconvenient revelations about what they are really doing in their science and religion classes – is a tactical maneuver that just might appeal to them.

      After all – tithe, tuition and gift dollars from Adventists are the main source of income for that instituion.

      in Christ,

      Bob




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    18. Clearly the developments in the science departments at La Sierra have not taken place in a vacuum. The theology department has preceded the sciences by some year in losing confidence in the Scriptures and in promoting belief in naturalism. If the situation is to be remedied, the following actions by the board at a minimum will be indications that they take this problem seriously:1. Replace the current president2. Replace two or three of the biology faculty3. Close down the School of Religion, releasing most of their faculty4. Start over again with a new department of religion.Short of these measures, other responses are just window dressing. What an insult to suggest adjusting the content of one course can possibly effect the needed change. I appeal to the board: Please act now to save my alma mater.  (Quote)

      Dr. Chadwick,

      As a Seventh-day Adventist young person currently attending an Adventist Academy, currently in the process of choosing which college I will attend next year, I am disgusted that you would make such a public statement against another one of our schools. I will not choose a school that allows its faculty to go on the war path against other schools, and will do everything in my power to influence my classmates to not go to SWAU.

      A dissapointed Adventist High School Junior.




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    19. “Adventist Student” is to be congratulated for speaking out and expressing what I am sure many of his peers are thinking. I hope there are others who will label Dr. Chadwick’s behavior for what it really is—an effort to vilify and spread false rumors about another Adventist institution of higher education. We might wonder if there is a faculty code of conduct at Southwestern Adventist University about faculty who engage in the kind of public behavior exhibited by Dr. Chadwick?




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    20. Dear Adventist Student,

      As a fellow Israelite, I am disgusted that Elijah made such a public statement against the Israelite king, King Ahab. This was just as bad as Samuel’s public statement against King Saul.

      I will NOT be attending their school of the prophets, and will do everything in my power to influence others against going there.

      An antidisunitarian Israelite




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    21. @Ervin Taylor:

      I hope there are others who will label Dr. Chadwick’s behavior for what it really is—an effort to vilify and spread false rumors about another Adventist institution of higher education.

      Just curious, what are these “false rumors” that Chadwick or anyone else is spreading about LSU? This is for you too “Adventist Student”. You do realize that you are accusing Chadwick of deliberate libel? In order to demonstrate libel, you have to show that the “false rumors” a person is spreading are really false.

      If there is anything false in the claims as to what LSU is promoting in its classrooms, do clear these up by all means. What horrible false rumors are being spread around here? However, if the LSU teachers are in fact proselytizing against the pillars of the SDA faith, literal 6-day creation in particular, as obvious “nonsense” subscribed to by only the “lunatic fringe”, how is the presentation of these facts a form of “vilification”? How is it “vilification” to present what teachers in our own university are saying quite openly and candidly in the public forum of a LSU classroom? Is this not an honest increase of transparency?

      And, why is it wrong for a true believer in the stated SDA goals and ideals, like Arthur Chadwick, to be upset when a paid representative of any kind is actively undermining the stated goals and ideals of the Church on the Church’s dime while pretending to do otherwise or while the school itself is trying to pretend like it isn’t happening?

      You know as well as I do, Erv, that the LSU science professors are in fact promoting mainstream evolutionary theory as the true story of origins directly counter to the SDA doctrine on a literal creation week. You also subscribe to the evolutionary theory of origins. Why try to suggest otherwise or obfuscate this fact? Why not at least deal with the truth of the situation at LSU? Why not strive for transparency yourself? Don’t we all deserve to know the truth of what is being taught to our young people as “the truth”?

      Sean Pitman
      http://www.DetectingDesign.com




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    22. @Adventist Student: It’s ironic that your very first comment on this forum is to accuse Art of going on the “war path” against LSU, yet totally ignore why Art is concerned in the first place. Unless of course you’re supportive of what LSU is doing? Are you?

      Erv argues for academic freedom, but apparently professors can’t express their concern over conflicts at other institutions. I suppose if the theology department at an Adventist university began promoting Sunday observance instead of the Sabbath and Art made similar comments you’d still feel the same way. Who cares what is actually going on, but heaven forbid if anyone speaks out against, especially a professor from another university. Did you notice he graduated from LSU?




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    23. Please allow a lengthy response of encouragement. I do believe we are entering the beginnings of “The Shaking” in Laodicean Adventism. Many will mock what Ellen White wrote after a vision, but here it is:

      The Shaking

      I saw some, with strong faith and agonizing cries, pleading with God. Their countenances were pale and marked with deep anxiety, expressive of their internal struggle. Firmness and great earnestness was expressed in their countenances; large drops of perspiration fell from their foreheads. Now and then their faces would light up with the marks of God’s approbation, and again the same solemn, earnest, anxious look would settle upon them.

      Evil angels crowded around, pressing darkness upon them to shut out Jesus from their view, that their eyes might be drawn to the darkness that surrounded them, and thus they be led to distrust God and murmur against Him. Their only safety was in keeping their eyes directed upward. Angels of God had charge over His people, and as the poisonous atmosphere of evil angels was pressed around these anxious ones, the heavenly angels were continually wafting their wings over them to scatter the thick darkness.

      As the praying ones continued their earnest cries, at times a ray of light from Jesus came to them, to encourage their hearts and light up their countenances. Some, I saw, did not participate in this work of agonizing and pleading. They seemed indifferent and careless. They were not resisting the darkness around them, and it shut them in like a thick cloud. The angels of God left these and went to the aid of the earnest, praying ones. I saw angels of God hasten to the assistance of all who were struggling with all their power to resist the evil angels and trying to help themselves by calling upon God with perseverance. But His angels left those who made no effort to help themselves, and I lost sight of them.

      I asked the meaning of the shaking I had seen and was shown that it would be caused by the straight testimony called forth by the counsel of the True Witness to the Laodiceans. This will have its effect upon the heart of the receiver, and will lead him to exalt the standard and pour forth the straight truth. Some will not bear this straight testimony. They will rise up against it, and this is what will cause a shaking among God’s people.

      I saw that the testimony of the True Witness has not been half heeded. The solemn testimony upon which the destiny of the church hangs has been lightly esteemed, if not entirely disregarded. This testimony must work deep repentance; all who truly receive it will obey it and be purified.

      Said the angel, “List ye!” Soon I heard a voice like many musical instruments all sounding in perfect strains, sweet and harmonious. It surpassed any music I had ever heard, seeming to be full of mercy, compassion, and elevating, holy joy. It thrilled through my whole being. Said the angel, “Look ye!” My attention was then turned to the company I had seen, who were mightily shaken. I was shown those whom I had before seen weeping and praying in agony of spirit. The company of guardian angels around them had been doubled, and they were clothed with an armor from their head to their feet. They moved in exact order, like a company of soldiers. Their countenances expressed the severe conflict which they had endured, the agonizing struggle they had passed through. Yet their features, marked with severe internal anguish, now shone with the light and glory of heaven. They had obtained the victory, and it called forth from them the deepest gratitude and holy, sacred joy.




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    24. Dear Adventist Student,

      There are actually others who share your sentiment. Airing dirty laundry in a very public forum and fighting over who made the mess and who should clean it up is never a good idea. I used to think SAU was a pretty decent place but I hear that theyve become a bit fanatical about creationism to. I understand they’re halls in biology are all decorated now with creation stuff. THey are short on faculty but wo’nt hire because they can’t find enough biologists who are can prove creation.. Recently they sent out sent out some kind of alumni publication in which essentially every department on campus is now pushing creatinism. I hear SWAU has a huge fossil dig thing that supposedly is trying to prove creationism and I think that’s Chadwick’s so-called research.

      I have been discussing this stuff with a number of college friends and I can assure you others find the SAU and SWAU posturing annoying,, including a few of my friends who just finished a semester at SAU. For most of my friends it has nothing to do with their personal beliefs. Its just the hostility toward other views, the in your face attitude about a single view and the intolerance. Actually I think its this website that ticks them off the most. They think I’m crazy to waste my time arguing with people who are judgemental and mean-spirited, and they’re probably right. But I guess this is what the website is for, to tick of everybody, scare everyone away from accepting or teaching any kind of evolution and start a civil war in the church.




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    25. In the morning, I wake up, and read my devotional before heading out to work. I have been earnestly praying about the situation at my alma mater, LSU. Sister White in Counsels to Editors and Writers, p. 52, stated that various messages of all kinds have been urged upon Adventists. These messages have sought to take the place of truth, yet truth has been determined by careful examination of points, prayerful study, and miracles through the word and power of the Lord. These beacons of truth have made Adventism what we are, they preserve us, and they are signified through His word and His Spirit of Prophecy. God expects us to hold fast, gripping our faith, clinging to our fundamental principles. These are all based on His unquestionable authority (paraphrased).

      I encourage those on this forum, who seem to side with a more cavalier, worldly perspective to take notice of what the Spirit has warned us to do. I encourage those who have a deep ferver for the truth, principles, and guidance of remaining faithful to the Lord to take the necessary actions, however unpopular, to stand-up for God. Dare to be a Daniel. Hold the gospel banner high, dare to stand alone, dare to have a purpose firm, dare to make it known. Like the young priest who was a student of the High Priest Zadock and the Prophet Nathan, he dared to go into Absoloms court and expose Absolom, provided counsel to Absolom, and kept King David informed. He risked everything, but God’s purpose was up-held. This is one example, and there are more. Who is willing to take a stand? Who is simply willing to name call? We must be loving, yet swift. Our Lord is not going to wink at our ignorance, for those whom He has entrusted much to, He extracts and expects more from.




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    26. @Geanna Dane:

      Dear Adventist Student,

      There are actually others who share your sentiment. Airing dirty laundry in a very public forum and fighting over who made the mess and who should clean it up is never a good idea.

      There is no fighting over who made and is making the mess at LSU. The science professors there are not trying to hide the fact that they believe in and actively promote the theory of evolution as the true story of origins. That’s a fact. It isn’t the airing of any “dirty laundry” that the LSU professors themselves where trying to hide from their own students.

      The fact is that all Church members have a right to know what our own institutions are really teaching our children as the “truth” on origins and on all other topics of importance to the Church. What right does LSU have to obfuscate the truth as to what is really taking place within our classrooms?

      Now, I know you don’t think that the literal 6-day creation week doctrine is all that big a deal. You deride and make fun of SAU and SWAU for promoting it so heavily. Well, no one is twisting your arm. You don’t have to support the Church’s stated fundamental positions or attend or send your children to our Church schools. This is a free country you know. However, the Church is also free to strongly uphold what it considers to be its own fundamental goals and pillars of faith within its own institutions. In fact, if it does not do this, it will eventually collapse into irrelevance and its institutions will soon become indistinguishable from secular society at large…

      Sean Pitman
      http://www.DetectingDesign.com




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    27. In the La Sierra U.(LSU) news release of 5-12-10, President Wisby is quote as saying, LSU “…values academic integrity and deep spiritual commitment…” in the “…context of faith in God.” Too bad that there was no mention of faith in God’s Word. But what God? Does this mean the God of our imagination rather than the God of the Bible?

      As for academic integrity: How does the LSU biology faculty justify evolution as science? Evolution is faith based (faith that one type of creature changed into another type of creature). Therefore, is not evolution a religion?




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    28. I hear SWAU has a huge fossil dig thing that supposedly is trying to prove creationism and I think that’s Chadwick’s so-called research.  

      Some of the world’s most acclaimed paleontologists don’t think Art’s work is “so-called research.” As a matter of fact, several of them are interested in applying his ground breaking methods to their own work. Also, nobody is trying to “prove creationism,” which would be technically impossible anyway since “creationism” is simply belief in creation…. You likely meant “prove creation,” but that mistake would be easy to make for someone who is not well associated with science, or critical thinking.




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    29. “Some of the world’s most acclaimed paleontologists don’t think Art’s work is “so-called research.””

      And they are…?




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    30. Here is the link to Chadwick’s research page: http://dinodig.swau.edu/

      Perhaps someone well associated with science and critical thinking can point me to the list of his publications regarding this particular dig that has spanned “a number of summers”. I would be very interested.




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    31. @Sean Pitman:

      @Geanna Dane: There is no fighting over who made and is making the mess at LSU. The science professors there are not trying to hide the fact that they believe in and actively promote the theory of evolution as the true story of origins. That’s a fact.

      That is true. The simple facts here are easy enough for everyone to see.

      I pray the Adventist constituency for LSU will be informed enough to make some changes – soon.

      in Christ,

      Bob




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    32. Here is the link to Chadwick’s research page: http://dinodig.swau.edu/Perhaps someone well associated with science and critical thinking can point me to the list of his publications regarding this particular dig that has spanned “a number of summers”. I would be very interested.  

      http://gsa.confex.com/gsa/2005AM/finalprogram/abstract_96601.htm

      http://origins.swau.edu/who/chadwick/abstract2006.html

      http://gsa.confex.com/gsa/2001AM/finalprogram/abstract_23759.htm

      http://thenewcreationism.wordpress.com/2009/04/08/how-to-bury-10000-dinosaurs/

      * Chadwick, Arthur V. Megatrends in North American paleocurrents. Symposium on Paleogeography and Paleoclimatology. SEPM. Abstracts with Program 8:5815.

      * Chadwick, A. and E. Kennedy. 1998. Evidence for deep water deposition of the Tapeats Sandstone. 15th International Sedimentological Congress. 15:247-248.

      * Spencer, Turner, and Chadwick. 2001. A remarkable vertebrate assemblage from the Lance Formation, Niobrara County, Wyoming. Geological Society of America. Abstracts with Program 33:A499.

      * Chadwick, A., Spencer, L. 2006. Turner Preliminary depositional model for an Upper Cretaceous Edmontosaurus bonebed. Journal of Vertebrate paleontology, 26:49A

      It seems you are just trying to get away from the true point of the conversation here for the sake of being argumentative. I suggest that before you spout off about someone’s professional work, you have substantial evidence to back your statements rather than making blind accusations….

      If a student wants a conservative christian education, then an Adventist institution could be a good choice. If that is not what they desire, they can pay tuition elsewhere. Just don’t go to an Adventist university, then complain because they are conservative. That doesn’t really make much sense, does it?

      If you don’t like it, you are free to “vote with your feet.”




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    33. @Art Chadwick:

      The theology department has preceded the sciences by some year in losing confidence in the Scriptures and in promoting belief in naturalism.

      Here again is the suggestion that we must interpret Scripture literally or else we are “losing confidence” in them. I think it often works the other way around. By insisting on literal details, we can miss the most important point and make it more difficult to believe.

      The tragedy of this Web site is that it thwarts the creative thinking that we need for dealing with modern science issues. It’s not an easy problem, and the success of this site will drive many thinking people into seclusion. That’s where we’ve been for decades.

      In the 1950s, there was a general understanding that Adventist literature would not emphasize a 6000 year history. President Robert Pierson brought that to an end and set us on a path to avoid any science that we did not like. The result is that many Adventists are very suspicious of science and scientists.

      If truth has nothing to fear from examination, which sometimes seems to be a Adventist assumption, I say it’s time to stop trying to fix LSU. Students are pretty good at figuring out who to believe. So, if you’re afraid to think out of the box, go where you’ll be told what to think. If you want think it out for yourself, go where the box has been opened.

      I have little doubt that Geanna, Adventist Student, and many others will figure things out with or without the “help” of the reformers sponsoring and speaking on this site.




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    34. One of the new board members, Alvin Kwiram, was a founding member of Spectrum and spent his academic career teaching at Harvard and the University of Washington. See here:

      http://www.spectrummagazine.org/blog/2010/05/24/la_sierra_university_reports_its_constituency_meeting.

      He wrote a 1993 article in Spectrum entitled “Adventists and the Good Earth” in which he warned about global warming and advocated some interesting theological changes: “…maybe it is time to modify our image of father/God by adding the mother/God dimension.”

      http://www.spectrummagazine.org/files/archive/archive21-25/22-5kwiram.pdf.

      I’ll go out on a limb and guess that he will not be reliable vote for reining in the Darwinists.




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    35. Carl says,

      Here again is the suggestion that we must interpret Scripture literally or else we are “losing confidence” in them. I think it often works the other way around. By insisting on literal details, we can miss the most important point and make it more difficult to believe.

      The tragedy of this Web site is that it thwarts the creative thinking that we need for dealing with modern science issues. It’s not an easy problem, and the success of this site will drive many thinking people into seclusion. That’s where we’ve been for decades.

      Does Carl want to be understood literally? According to the way he apparently reads Scripture, is there a deeper, hidden, more sophisticated meaning in his words which obfuscates and/or contradicts his premise and words? Such would be impractical. Rather does Carl expect us to take his words at face-value re: website, decades, the 50’s etc. etc? After all, prophetic symbols like a lion with wings that stands as a man given a human heart, or a leopard with four heads (Daniel 7:4, 6, 17, 23) were absent from his post so, I can only believe he wishes to be understood by the majority instead of a few enlightened, progressive scholars!

      God did not inspire the Bible so we would have to elect a board of sophisticated Dr.s to interpret his words for the rest since they are so mystical and only apparent to the elect of modern day academia, which are replaced by the next graduating class.
      God bless,

      Rich




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    36. @Carl:

      @Art Chadwick: Here again is the suggestion that we must interpret Scripture literally or else we are “losing confidence” in them. I think it often works the other way around. By insisting on literal details, we can miss the most important point and make it more difficult to believe.The tragedy of this Web site is that it thwarts the creative thinking that we need for dealing with modern science issues.

      Not one word of that complaint deals with any interest at all in an exegetically sound rendering of the text. Rather the point is to complain that scripture-bending is being excluded as a valid form of Bible interpretation – and yet such bending is “necessary” for doctrines on origins being promoted by evolutionism’s evangelists at LSU.

      It’s not an easy problem, and the success of this site will drive many thinking people into seclusion. That’s where we’ve been for decades.

      Still no indication at all that the thinking-person you speculate about is in fact realistic about the exegesis (or lack thereof) in their reading of the Bible. Only that they might find their “beliefs” in atheist evolutionism to be challenged.

      In the 1950s, there was a general understanding that Adventist literature would not emphasize a 6000 year history.

      Not found in Adventist literature.

      Not found in Quiquinium voted documents.

      So “general” as in you and a few of your closes friends?

      How is that “general”?

      many Adventists are very suspicious of science and scientists.If truth has nothing to fear from examination,

      1. Adventist do not reject science – they reject mythology that says that “birds came from reptiles” and that “rocks and gass make little baby single celled life forms” and that simple life forms evolve into complex ones but just not in the lab. Ideas never found in the LAB – but found only in the evolutionist history of fraudulent hoax claims.

      2. Fear is the trademark of evolutionists within the Adventist church. They fear to let the Bible speak — without trying to bend and wrench it to their own usages – employing blatant eisegesis at every turn.

      Fear motivates LSU professors teaching evolutionism to “hide” from places like EducateTruth where their methods are open to question.

      Fear motivates the evolutionist proponants to fly off the handle at LSU students that dare to openly question their evolutionist propaganda regardng their doctrine on origins.

      I say it’s time to stop trying to fix LSU.

      By contrast – God says that neutrality in a time of crisis as this – is the worst form of hostility against God.

      Let the reader decide whose warning to act on.

      Students are pretty good at figuring out who to believe.

      When they are not being yelled at by the slash-and-burn all-for-evolutionism biology professors.

      When they are not being subject to law suits by the LSU administration.

      When they are not being given low grades for daring to stand for Adventist beliefs at an Adventist School.

      But you say – we should just abandon the students to that kind of “LSU-ish” non-adventism.

      Hint: Not gonna happen.

      Another thing that is “not gonna happen” is the continual LSU-hoodwinking of Adventist parents about the fiction that the LSU board has actually convinced the LSU science and religion departments to stop teaching evolutionism as the “right answer for the doctrine on origins”.

      Parents “willing” to be informed have a place to see what is going on.

      in Christ,

      Bob




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    37. Minesfaster0,

      Thank you for supplying a list of abstracts. 13 years of research at a study site and not a single peer-reviewed publication? (You do know the difference don’t you?)




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    38. MinfasterO,

      You suggested that before I “spout off” about someone’s professional work I needed substantial evidence to back your statements rather than making blind accusations. Um, I used the adjective “so-called” and sought exactly what you suggested: substantial evidence. Where are the peer-reviewed papers from his 13 years of study in Wyoming?

      You stated that some of the world’s most acclaimed paleontologists are interested in applying his ground breaking methods to their own work. Yet you refuse to supply names. Where is YOUR substantial evidence? I want transparency. Names please!




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    39. Minesfaster0,Thank you for supplying a list of abstracts. 13 years of research at a study site and not a single peer-reviewed publication? (You do know the difference don’t you?)  

      What part of:

      “* Spencer, Turner, and Chadwick. 2001. A remarkable vertebrate assemblage from the Lance Formation, Niobrara County, Wyoming. Geological Society of America. Abstracts with Program 33:A499.

      * Chadwick, A., Spencer, L. 2006. Turner Preliminary depositional model for an Upper Cretaceous Edmontosaurus bonebed. Journal of Vertebrate paleontology, 26:49A”

      didn’t you understand? [edit]

      I will not supply names in the interest of those individuals.

      [edit] Here in America, when making accusations, you have to prove your case with demonstrable evidence if you intend to be taken seriously.

      I have supplied you with links to publications, and supported my statements. Five minutes, and an internet connection will likely supply you with even more publications, as well as descriptions of the Lance Fm., maps of Wyoming, and Niobrara County [edit]

      My point is very clear. This is my last reply to you until you construct a coherent, on topic message with valid points. [edit]

      Good luck, Geanna.

      Sincerely,
      Minesfaster




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    40. Geanna, did you see the 2006 article in the Journal of Vertebrate Paleontology (which is peer reviewed), co-authored with Spencer?

      Chadwick has published several papers in secular, peer reviewed journals, as have many other Adventist scientists with a biblical view of earth history:

      http://creationwiki.org/Creation_in_secular_journal_(geology).

      There are many Ph.D. level scientists who are not Darwinists, including Kurt Wise, who earned a Ph.D. in paleontology from Harvard under Stephen Jay Gould. The most recently minted creationist paleontology Ph.D. is Marcus Ross, whose professor-advisors were fully apprised of the fact that he was a creationist. The lie that everyone who knows and understands the data is a Darwinist or a Lyellian is no less false for being frequently repeated.

      The whining about peer review is particularly tiresome in light of the story of Stephen Meyer’s article in the peer-reviewed “Proceedings of the Biological Society of Washington.” http://www.discovery.org/a/2177.
      The editor of that journal, Richard Sternberg, had his career ruined just for allowing a paper that presented ID theory to be published. I don’t think many other scientists want to throw away their careers for giving creationist or design-oriented interpretations a hearing in a peer-reviewed journal. So even though creationist scientists sometimes published in peer reviewed journals, papers with openly and explicitly creationists interpretations would most likely never see the light of day.




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    41. Minefaster,

      I’ll tell you what I don’t understand from the abstracts: the full details of the methods and results and an appropriate discussion. Further, abstracts are not subjected to peer review. Don’t you recognize what an abstract is? H-e-l-l-o!? I have not stated anything invalid and you have failed to identify for us what I asked for: a single peer-reviewed paper arising from his 13 years of field work at his current study site in Wyoming.

      Yes, Dr. Chadwick was junior author (not the lead investigator or author) on a few refereed papers on fossil whales from South America. THese were projects headed up by Adventist biologists at other institutions. But again, where are the senior-authored papers from Dr. Chadwick? Why is it other Adventist biologists can publish papers but not Dr. Chadwick? There have been UNDERGRADUATE STUDENTS at La Sierra University who have more senior authored papers in peer-reviewed journals than Dr. Chadwick.

      So what is the distinction between research and a hobby? You tell me.




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    42. Minefaster,

      You claimed that some of the world’s most acclaimed paleontologists are interested in applying his ground breaking methods to their own work. Here in America, when making accusations, you have to prove your case with demonstrable evidence if you intend to be taken seriously. Clearly you don’t have any names or you would be more transparent and truly prove your case.




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    43. Clearly the developments in the science departments at La Sierra have not taken place in a vacuum. The theology department has preceded the sciences by some year in losing confidence in the Scriptures and in promoting belief in naturalism. If the situation is to be remedied, the following actions by the board at a minimum will be indications that they take this problem seriously:1. Replace the current president
      2. Replace two or three of the biology faculty
      3. Close down the School of Religion, releasing most of their faculty
      4. Start over again with a new department of religion.Short of these measures, other responses are just window dressing. What an insult to suggest adjusting the content of one course can possibly effect the needed change. I appeal to the board: Please act now to save my alma mater.  

      Dearest Brother, God bless you! Few in responsible positions are willing to call sin by its right name. You have God given discernment to see the reality of the problem. Evolution is only a symptom of a much larger problem. I fear that it is too late to reverse the situation at La Sierra. The constituency has spoken and it is not on God’s side. The school is reaping what it has sown. Pray for the ordained ministers that allowed the school to fall to this low level. Those charged with great responsibility have failed in their administration. This did not happen overnight, but has been worsening year by year.

      I ask the question, how is it that A-today is allowed to continue publishing? There are many ordained ministers that are connected with them. This is the first time I have mentioned the name, not wanting to give influence to them. But, it is time to recognize them for who they are. They support the rebellion at La Sierra. It runs deep, very deep in the church.




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    44. @BobRyan:

      Not found in Adventist literature.
      Not found in Quiquinium voted documents.
      So “general” as in you and a few of your closes friends?
      How is that “general”?

      The Consultant Committee on Geoscience Research was terminated and a new emphasis was instituted for staff activities. Research tended to concentrate on selected areas where the data were most supportive of the 6,000-year biblical chronology of Bishop Ussher. Before long, the tacit policy arrived at in the 1950s during the General Conference presidency of W. H. Branson (to the effect that the 6,000-year chronology need not be emphasized in Seventh-day Adventist publications) was abandoned. (Richard Hammill, AAF Spectrum, Vol 15, No. 2 p 41)

      I did not know Dr Hammill personally, so, no, this wasn’t cooked up among my closest friends.




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    45. As usual, it’s not really “peer review” so much as it is “peer pressure.” It’s a big boys’ club, and they don’t take kindly to having independent thinkers in the group. As long as you rubber stamp their pet theories as fact, they’ll honor you as an “outstanding scientist” (misnomer). In America, it used to be said that the squeaky wheel gets the grease, while in Asia it is said that the nail that sticks out gets hammered in. Scientists today seem to follow the Asian way–no one is allowed to stick out, they all must stick together. Instead of the squeaky wheel getting greased, it gets replaced with one that won’t squeak. No whistle-blowers allowed!

      Erik




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    46. “It’s a big boys’ club, and they don’t take kindly to having independent thinkers in the group.”

      You are mistaken and have no idea what you are talking about. Many extremely conservative Adventists succeed in publishing their papers in top notch scientific journals. Some of Dr. Leonard Brand’s articles for example have been on the COVER of prominent geology journals (and Dr. Chadwisk was a coauthor for one). Have you not seen Dr. Brand’s book on Creation which champions our cause? He’s as squeeky wheeled as one can get yet he can still publish in the so-called “big boys’ club.”

      Theirs a big diference between research and a hobby.




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    47. Carl said:
      In the 1950s, there was a general understanding that Adventist literature would not emphasize a 6000 year history.

      Not found in Adventist literature.

      Not found in Quiquinium voted documents.

      So “general” as in you and a few of your closes friends?

      How is that “general”?

      @Carl:

      @BobRyan: The Consultant Committee on Geoscience Research was terminated and a new emphasis was instituted for staff activities.

      Ok – according to your link – that is an underfunded group of less than a dozen people that at some point in the 50’s decided that 6,000 years might easily be 7000, 8000 or maybe 10,000 years, and decided from the 50’s to some time in the 60’s not to emphasize the 6,000 year limiting time.

      Carl said:
      Research tended to concentrate on selected areas where the data were most supportive of the 6,000-year biblical chronology of Bishop Ussher. Before long, the tacit policy arrived at in the 1950s during the General Conference presidency of W. H. Branson (to the effect that the 6,000-year chronology need not be emphasized in Seventh-day Adventist publications) was abandoned. (Richard Hammill, AAF Spectrum, Vol 15, No. 2 p 41)I did not know Dr Hammill personally, so, no, this wasn’t cooked up among my closest friends.  (Quote)

      Here’s a link for Hammill’s interesting report:

      http://spectrummagazine.org/files/archive/archive11-15/15-2hammill.pdf

      So what we have is a short-lived policy of stepping back from 6,000 years as a limit (but in the context of something like 7,000 or 10,000 yeas as the alternative – still with a literal 7 day creation week) – by a small underfunded research/consulting group.

      Your own linked document indicates that at the time they were looking into this topic – they were not getting consensus or agreement by any stretch of the imagination from other Adventist teaching institutions on stepping back from the 6,000 year number. The entire context at the time was still one of a very conservative Adventist Educational and Theological environment.

      Granted.

      in Christ,

      Bob




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    48. Geanna,

      Have you heard what the scientific community has done with Dr. Robert V. Gentry’s scientific work? Don’t try to tell me his evidence was just a “hobby.”

      Here are several important sites where you may find information related to his case. His case presents very strong evidence of the “big boys’ club” that is called “peer review.”

      http://www.robertvgentry.com/ –> PDFs of his published articles
      http://www.orionfdn.org/ –> Documentation of anti-Creationist censorship
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_V._Gentry –> More info relative to his case and credentials

      Erik




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    49. Gentry submitted papers. They were accepted and published. Are you suggesting that Dr. Chadwick has written and submitted his papers but that they were rejected?

      I’m not denying that some level of censorship exists in science. I never said anything about Gentry’s work being a hobby. Apparently Dr. Chadwick has published nothing of substance on his 13 year dinosaur dig which raises the question of whether he is doingo research or engaged in a very expensive and overly-hyped hobby. Why is it that you people continually mischaracterize my statements? Transparency demands honesty, does it not?

      So how much church and/or membership money has been squandered in this apparent hobby that has clearly failed (to date) to demonstrate any scientific evidence whatsoever for a young earth or literal creation week? Who are his donors?

      Funny that Geoscience gets condemned and Chadwick/SWAU gets praised.




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    50. @Carl:
      The problem was the a group of so called scientists were trying to hijack our Adventist organization and put us on the road to theistic evolutionism. The president of the GC saved us by taking appropriate action. Something that must be done now again.

      One of the biggest fallacies is that the problem is science vs religion. That is a misleading false-dichotomy. In reality it’s religious belief vs religious belief — Naturalism vs Creationism. The real problem has nothing to do with science, but within which worldview one chooses and interprets science. It appears that most of our “educated” scholars are abysmally ignorant of this most basic of fact. This is extremely apparent in the 101 videos released not long ago. Talk about spreading of utter ignorance!!!!




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    51. As Geanna correctly pointed out, there is a huge distinction between an abstract and a peer-reviewed article in a scientific journal. An abstract is merely a paragraph, usually less than 500 words, summarizing the introduction, methods, results and conclusions of a research project in maybe 5-15 sentences. Abstracts are submitted and published for presentations (either oral or poster) given at scientific meetings. They are not subjected to the rigorous peer review of full length manuscripts in which full details are reported. Abstracts are often listed among the publications of a scientist, which tends to make the list of publications appear more impressive than it actually is.

      I have met Dr. Chadwick before but don’t know him well. Nevertheless, I have heard many good things about him and I appreciate his research on origins. I hope that he can be more successful in the future in publishing research articles based on his projects. However, he teaches in an undergraduate program in which research is a low priority and few (if any) incentives are given for scholarship, which is typical of most SDA colleges and universities. He has a heavier teaching load than professors in SDA universities with a graduate program in biology and he lacks graduate students who can assist him with his research. It is also very difficult to obtain grants to fund research projects when you have a teaching load and no graduate students to help out. It would be nice if some of you who are blessed with the means could generously provide financial assistance to SDA biologists like Dr. Chadwick who are striving to find evidence to support the SDA interpretations of the Biblical account of origins.

      And, as Geanna hinted, there are a growing number of relatively conservative SDA biologists, including some in undergraduate SDA institutions, who are prolific at publishing research papers in peer-reviewed scientific journals. However, the research of most of these biologists usually focuses on aspects of biology unrelated to the origin and (if I may) microevolution of life. The notion that the brightest and best of SDA biologists have abandoned traditional interpretations of origins is simply untrue.




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    52. It isn’t unusual for a scientist to wait many years before publishing an article or monograph about a major discovery or a substantial piece of research. In the mean time, we know enough about Dr. Chadwick’s research to know that it is first rate. He uses GPS to record the exact position of each fossil unearthed, so that a 3D map of the site can be constructed. This will obviously prove indispensible in trying to intrepet the taphonomic processes that created the site.

      In addition, Dr. Chadwick curates a museum with a cutting-edge online component, in which he catalogs, names, and describes each fossil, and renders several of them in 3D. I encourage everyone to browse the online museum and manipulate the 3D renderings: http://fossil.swau.edu/ In addition to the main research site, there is also a kid-friendly site that talks about the dinosaurs found in the upper Lance Formation: http://dinosaur.swau.edu/

      Clearly, the online museum and the annual reports that Dr. Chadwick has prepared show that his work is careful paleontological work of the highest scientific standard. I have not discussed it with Dr. Chadwick, but I imagine that he has put off writing the definitive monograph because there are several quarry sites and several of them keep growing. He wants to get a firm picture of the stratigraphy of the entire site, and this is difficult because there are no reliable marker layers going through the whole site. When there is something definitive to report, Dr. Chadwick will prepare and publish an article. In the mean time, he continues to lecture at meetings apprising other geologists and paleontologists of the ongoing work. To denigrate his work as a “hobby” is mean-spirited and unfair.




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    53. Quoting Geanna:

      Gentry submitted papers. They were accepted and published. Are you suggesting that Dr. Chadwick has written and submitted his papers but that they were rejected?

      Did you read the materials on the links I provided? It seems you have not.

      It is true that some of Dr. Gentry’s papers were published. This was during the early stage of his work when he was still silent on his Creationist viewpoint. As soon as his evidence began supporting Creation, the papers were no longer published. In addition, some of what he had already published was removed from the archives and no longer publicly accessible. This amounted to clear anti-Creationist censorship.

      As for Dr. Chadwick, it is even more difficult for a creation scientist to have articles published in the “peer reviewed” journals today than it may have been for Dr. Gentry some years ago. Where should Dr. Chadwick publish? Can you know of a certainty, Geanna, that he has not tried? Would you have a way of knowing if his articles were refused?

      The way “peer review” works today basically amounts to “I’ll accept it for publishing if I like it and agree with it, regardless of the scientific quality it represents.” A good case in point, one which hit the news on a non-origins topic, is the statistical reports of accidents at red-light camera intersections.

      http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/30/3009.asp

      The industry does not want to publish the best, most comprehensive study to date on that topic because its results are unfavorable. The same is true in the evolutionist camp. The scientific quality means nothing. The conclusion is everything. They don’t want to publish anything that would refute their pet theories. Why should they? Who wants to let evidence see the light of day that will make him or her lose face and prove their theories were flawed?

      In a worldly sense, these evolutionists are to be congratulated as having succeeded in dominating the world with their religion. Nevertheless, we Christians know Who will win this war, regardless of the outcome of this present skirmish.

      So, why does LSU wish to tell the world that Adventists don’t believe God created the world in six days as He said He did? Should this not make us ashamed? Why will LSU choose the losing side and favor the world, when Jesus, looking to the future, prayed especially for His followers, saying “I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.” (John 17:14-15)

      Why do the world’s theories look so attractive to us when our treasure is in Heaven? Should we not rather treasure God’s Word and believe it?

      Erik




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    54. I am impressed. The year is 2010. Dr. Chadwick actually uses GPS for a dig and has come up with a 3D map. He has an online museum that shows pictures of bones. He gives talks. Surely the world’s leading paleobiologists are clamoring to figure out how he accomplishes these things. (If you are the curious sort go to Google Scholar and type “fossil quarry gps” and check out the 1,280 hits. And while at it you can use Google to search for “online museum” and check out the 46 million hits.)

      There is a saying: “The road is paved with good intentions”. There is another obvious thing that we love (and need) to overlook: a “track record”. Don’t hold your breath.. I’m told by a friend that the guy has recently retired.

      Acutally I do hope he will be able to publish during his retirement. I’m sure he will be able to convince us that a whole bunch of animals died,, no doubt in a catastrophe. Evolutionary biologists have told us all along that this happens and have conducted similar digs, thousands of them, all across the globe to bring us this knowledge. So what is different about this dig? I know you people really really want to believe that a bunch of dead animals in one location will prove there was a worldwide flood. You should have listened to Kent Hovind and come to his rescue before the IRS put him away..




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    55. I have a friend who has read all sorts of stuff about horses and has become quite an expert. She has kept them, cared for them, and ridden them for many years. She has given many talks about them and has a fabulous website too. She has taught some courses. To denigrate her work as a “hobby” would be mean-spirited and unfair. She’s a first class researcher.




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    56. Erik worte: “The way “peer review” works today basically amounts to “I’ll accept it for publishing if I like it and agree with it, regardless of the scientific quality it represents.” … They don’t want to publish anything that would refute their pet theories. Why should they? Who wants to let evidence see the light of day that will make him or her lose face and prove their theories were flawed?”

      Dude, where did you learn your science? Do you really believe article after article affirms all of the prior work done on a topic? Do you really believe most science is rubber stamped by reviewers and editors?

      By the way I’ll let you in on a secret: an awful lot of creationsists includings Adventists have dismissed Gentry’s work.




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    57. Dear Adventist Student,As a fellow Israelite, I am disgusted that Elijah made such a public statement against the Israelite king, King Ahab. This was just as bad as Samuel’s public statement against King Saul.I will NOT be attending their school of the prophets, and will do everything in my power to influence others against going there.An antidisunitarian Israelite  (Quote)

      Interesting how instead of actually defending the man’s actions, you simply sarcastically make an invalid analogy. I realize that I’m on unfriendly turf here since I actually think that if there is a problem at La Sierra, the people that have a problem with it should go at it through appropriate venues, ie, the Union that PUC receives its funding from. But simply making fun of my statement instead of calmly discussing it will not convince me of anything.

      “Adventist Student” is to be congratulated for speaking out and expressing what I am sure many of his peers are thinking. I hope there are others who will label Dr. Chadwick’s behavior for what it really is—an effort to vilify and spread false rumors about another Adventist institution of higher education. We might wonder if there is a faculty code of conduct at Southwestern Adventist University about faculty who engage in the kind of public behavior exhibited by Dr. Chadwick?  (Quote)

      I agree, if SWAU does not have a policy against its faculty villifying other Adventist Institutions in a non-academic way, then it should implement one immediately. Also, it might interest you, that in my academy – a larger one for the east coast with over 250 students, we have usually had about 20% of our classes going to SAU. Out of this years Senior Class, only five students are going to SAU, a steep decline.
      Over the past week, I have done an informal poll of my classmates on the issue. Turns out, only one person in my 65 member class is even considering SWAU, and none Southern, because of the notoriety they have received on campus from similar incidents. As Adventist High Schoolers, we want our teachers in College to be able to teach us uncensored science. That’s why many of my classmates aren’t considering Adventist Colleges, and those that are mostly plan to go to PUC or LSU. La Sierra can count on a influx of about 20-30 students from my Academy in the fall of 2011 if the this controversy is still playing out.




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    58. @Ervin Taylor: Just curious, what are these “false rumors” that Chadwick or anyone else is spreading about LSU? This is for you too “Adventist Student”. You do realize that you are accusing Chadwick of deliberate libel? In order to demonstrate libel, you have to show that the “false rumors” a person is spreading are really false.Sean Pitmanhttp://www.DetectingDesign.com  (Quote)

      Well, to start with, he is helping to perpetuate the rumors that state that “La Sierra can[not] currently be trusted to be supportive of Seventh-day Adventist spiritual values” as was falsly stated by the Michigan Conference, and just because MC said it doesn’t make it true. Michigan has one of the most fringe conferences in the country. A classmate of mine’s family just moved from there because of this, that’s okay, we got an awesome transfer this year, and we’ve enjoyed having her all year.
      Is it really against Adventist spiritual values to allow professors to present what they believe to be the most scientifically valid theory in classes with their students?




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    59. @Shane Hilde:

      It’s ironic that your very first comment on this forum is to accuse Art of going on the “war path” against LSU…

      I feel the welcome atmosphere, perhaps that was simply the case because I have been following this site, but was avoiding involving myself in this until I read his comment, and felt that something had to be said.
      no going back…

      Unless of course you’re supportive of what LSU is doing? Are you?

      I believe that evolution is a completely valid viewpoint for an Adventist to hold, but of course creationism is more mainstream within the community. I personally believe either is the case and think both sides make sense in some ways, so I guess I don’t know which I believe in at this point, that’s something I’ll try to figure out in the next 5 years until I graduate from college. From what I have read after following this site since GYC in Kentucky this year, and reading most of its static content, it looks to me like LSU is simply teaching evolution in some of its higher classes because it is the scientific norm, while also respecting the creationist viewpoint. I don’t have a problem with that. In fact, since they actually do more than try to disprove creation, I am more likely to go to LSU than other Adventist Colleges.

      @Geanna Dane:

      I used to think SAU was a pretty decent place but I hear that theyve become a bit fanatical about creationism to. I understand they’re halls in biology are all decorated now with creation stuff. THey are short on faculty but wo’nt hire because they can’t find enough biologists who are can prove creation.. Recently they sent out sent out some kind of alumni publication in which essentially every department on campus is now pushing creatinism.

      I agree, and so do most of my classmates. Recently a SAU booth was at our school, now remember, my school until this year was called a feeder to SAU. The number of Juniors that showed interest: 0. When LSU almost half of the Junior class filled out interest cards. LSU is filling a nitch market of students that want a Adventist education but do not want their science compromised, and they will feel the economic benefits from it.
      Kudos to educatetruth.com for taking LSU from not even being considered in my college search, to making it share the top spot with PUC, and helping that spread to a large number of my classmates.




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    60. @BobRyan:

      I pray the Adventist constituency for LSU will be informed enough to make some changes – soonBob  (Quote)

      Oh don’t worry, we will. We, as Adventist High Schoolers are voting with our feet. Don’t forget, Adventist young people in general are not your historic/fundamentalist types, we’re mostly progressive. We read Spectrum, NOT the Adventist Review, Hartland Ministry Report or whatever Hope International’s magazine is called. And if you succeed in forcing LSU to become a clone of SAU, don’t worry, we’ll still vote and continue the exodus of Adventist young people to non-adventist colleges that has been happening.

      Interesting how PUC and LSU are both expecting record freshman classes this year.




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    61. Geanna said:

      Dude, where did you learn your science? Do you really believe article after article affirms all of the prior work done on a topic? Do you really believe most science is rubber stamped by reviewers and editors?

      Geanna, of course there could never be any conspiracies in the world today. There is no reason for such, you know…no money in it, no power. (Tongue in cheek.)

      I’m reminded of a cartoon I once saw where a girl in pigtails and freckles asks her father about something she just read in the newspaper. The father answers “Yes, Virginia, if it’s in the paper it must be true.”

      Do you believe everything you read? Obviously not. The catch with modern science is that it is often tied to finances. Marketing. Research grants. Etc. Case in point: many of these so-called “third party” research groups that help to research and publish studies in the medical journals…guess who funds them? The pharmaceutical companies, aka “big pharma.” Guess what they do with research results that are unflattering toward their product? They don’t publish those. You see, perhaps they can claim to be doing “scientific” research, but it still seems a bit unscientific to me that they might be shelving nine out of ten studies, and not publishing them, only printing the one that favored their product.

      True science is interested in facts, and readily accepts even unfavorable evidence in the pursuit of knowledge. The “peer review” process has turned “science” into a sham. It does this by refusing evidence deemed unfavorable. In modern times, this especially means evidence for creation. There will always be some level of debate within the scientific community. But you just don’t see much on this level. It’s all “evolutionism.”

      As I’ve said before, there were many scientists in Noah’s day telling the world it would be impossible to have rain. Apparently, the masses were convinced…at the cost of their lives. I’m one who puts faith in God, for as the world’s Creator, He knows a lot more than scientists do.

      When God says He created the world in six literal days, don’t you think God knows what He did and didn’t do at that time? Jesus Himself spoke of the scriptures, including the books of Moses, and never once ventured to “set the record straight.” It already was straight.

      Why now does LSU wish to do that which Jesus did not do?

      Erik




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    62. @Adventist Student:

      As a fellow Adventist High school student, I wish to inform you that not ALL or probably even most are ‘voting with our feet’. We vote with spiritual guidance and careful consideration on how and where we would get the BEST education, be it Adventist or not.

      As to all of us being ‘Progressive’ (another word for LIBERAL) I think there is a large population of Adventist and American young people as myself who are migrating to the more CONSERVATIVE brand of Adventist and politics. Now I realize this may not be the most well taken thought, but may I say, that Liberalism as a ideology IS a religion that will intertwine and in-tangle any other religion. Remember that liberalism is the ideology that spawned the humanist movement where men can control weather, evolution, and do almost anything, in addition to the adoption of macro-evolution in our schools. It is also plain in the political atmosphere LSU now has many parallels with the bigger political atmosphere we have in the United States at the moment.

      In addition, I wonder if you really have all the facts before you said that there will be record freshmen classes at PUC and LSU? Did you check the demographics? Are they a majority of non-adventist ‘progressives’? Maybe there are many that decided NOT to go because of the sole doctrine of macro-evolution at LSU? Maybe some decided to go because of it? I don’t know for sure, but I would be interested where your sources come from and that you can prove it. As for me, most of the SDA young people I know from late that have gone to Adventist school have gone to SAU. (that does not mean they have record freshmen classes)




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    63. @Geanna Dane:

      Dear Adventist Student, There are actually others who share your sentiment. Airing dirty laundry in a very public forum and fighting over who made the mess and who should clean it up is never a good idea.

      I used to think SAU was a pretty decent place but I hear that theyve become a bit fanatical about creationism to. I understand they’re halls in biology are all decorated now with creation stuff.

      Wow! you must be kidding!! “Creation stuff”? — really!!??

      Ok that settles it for me!

      It appears that both the annonymous “AdventistStudent” and Geanna” have come out with what I consider to be a fantastic endorsement for SAU – which is — that neither of those two posters “like” SAU! (Apparently in the case above – for daring to “post creation stuff”).

      And as the annonymous “AdventistStudent” pointed out – there are some people in the church that actuall work to try and avoid an Adventist education and they quickly identify SAU as providing the very thing they do not want.

      Well free will being what it is – I am glad that all the cards are on the table.

      I actually “prefer” having the Adventist schools that actually promote Adventist doctrines stand up “and say so”.

      I am also very happy to have LSU professors declare publically what they are telling their students about Adventist doctrines on origins be the last thing in the world that those professors want to promote in class.

      Though I wish those professors were not turning a blind eye to good science and sound doctrine in their efforts to reject the Adventist doctrine on origins – I am more than happy to have them tell everyone exactly what they are doing.

      (Though if I read Geraty’s letter correctly – he appears to think that those LSU professors made a mistake in publishing to the world what they were doing in class. He and I would differ on that point).

      in Christ,

      Bob




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    64. @Conservative Adventist Student:

      As to all of us being ‘Progressive’ (another word for LIBERAL) I think there is a large population of Adventist and American young people as myself who are migrating to the more CONSERVATIVE brand of Adventist and politics.

      Where do you hang out? Ouchita Hills Academy, or Hartland? Because I’m pretty sure, and I have close associations with at least two major Adventist academies on the east coast, and we are anything but conservative.
      Also, if you think “progressive” and “liberal” are synonyms, they really aren’t.

      Now I realize this may not be the most well taken thought, but may I say, that Liberalism as a ideology IS a religion that will intertwine and in-tangle any other religion.

      Yes it will, to the same extent conservatism will.

      It is also plain in the political atmosphere LSU now has many parallels with the bigger political atmosphere we have in the United States at the moment.

      The political atmosphere at LSU? Is that your way of saying that LSU offers academic freedom?

      In addition, I wonder if you really have all the facts before you said that there will be record freshmen classes at PUC and LSU? Did you check the demographics? Are they a majority of non-adventist ‘progressives’? Maybe there are many that decided NOT to go because of the sole doctrine of macro-evolution at LSU? Maybe some decided to go because of it?

      The record freshman classes statement came from recruiters at both schools. I did not check the demographics, but I do know that a huge number of Adventist high schoolers are going to those schools. Did a lot not go because LSU offers cutting edge teachings consistent with the scientific consensus? I don’t know, I know of one person like that in my school, they are going to a non-Adventist school instead. Are they many that are going because of it? I think so.

      As for me, most of the SDA young people I know from late that have gone to Adventist school have gone to SAU.

      They do still have a large number go because of their previous reputation, and parents that support it, etc. But they’re numbers are starting to flake… I do know I got an acceptance letter from them without ever applying, kinda showed desperation in my humble opinion. But what do you expect from a school where you have full fledged professors who have never published anything as the senior editor, in a peer reviewed scientific journal? pathetic.




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    65. @BobRyan: It’s nice how you consider the fact that a Seventh-day Adventist young person in good standing with his church disliking a school as an endorsement of that school. Can we get over the hate and get to work telling the world about our LOVING jesus?




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    66. God wrote the ten commandments with his own finger. When he wrote “six days shall thou labor and do all thy work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God, in it thou shalt not do any work”. How could each day be represented as thousands of years as if one were born and died after 100 years, he may either be required to work his whole life or if born on the seventh day he would then rest all his life with no work?! This doesn’t make “common sense” to me. The evening and the morning, represent each day in evolutionary day, if you are born at night, you may not even see the light of day!




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    67. God wrote the ten commandments with his own finger.When he wrote “six days shall thou labor and do all thy work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God, in it thou shalt not do any work”. How could each day be represented as thousands of years as if one were born and died after 100 years, he may either be required to work his whole life or if born on the seventh day he would then rest all his life with no work?!This doesn’t make “common sense” to me. The evening and the morning, represent each day in evolutionary day, if you are born at night, you may not even see the light of day!  

      Progressives do not appeal to common sense. They appeal to “what does the modern world believe?” God has plainly stated how the world and living things were created. But, progressives say He just “snowed” us and humored us because we were and are too stupid to really understand what He did.

      Modernists, because they are so highly educated and smarter than all the ignorant backwaters who wrote the bible and have believed it for thousands of years, gotta “reinterpret” what the Bible “really says!”




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    68. Ron Stone says: Progressives do not appeal to common sense. They appeal to “what does the modern world believe?”

      It seems to me that progressives look at WHY people believe what they believe, and they see merit to other interpretations. I think they consider it quite rational. I think they think common sense is open minded and not limited to a single interpretation that does not include historical context and intent of the original author.




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    69. John D. Sproed said: God wrote the ten commandments with his own finger.

      When Got wrote them with His finger, did He write the version in Exodus 20, or in Deuteronomy 5? or the Catholic Liturgy version, which Roman Catholics (half the world’s Christians) would say is God’s true intent?

      And, does God expect us to keep the Sabbath rituals the way it is defined in the Bible?




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    70. John D. Sproed said: God wrote the ten commandments with his own finger.When Got wrote them with His finger, did He write the version in Exodus 20, or in Deuteronomy 5? or the Catholic Liturgy version, which Roman Catholics (half the world’s Christians) would say is God’s true intent?And, does God expect us to keep the Sabbath rituals the way it is defined in the Bible?  

      So George, God didn’t write them as the bible states? What else do you think is “wrong” in the bible? Just wondering!




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    71. I would like to publicly apologize to Dr. Art Chadwick for questioning the science of his research. Although I backed up my statements with evidence, it was still quite mean-spirited of me.

      I wish that Dr. Chadwick was man enough to apologize for the negative statement he made about the new board members: Meredith Jobe, Alvin Kwiram, Alina Sanchez, James Kyle. He said:

      “Having just reviewed the changes made in the LSU Board, it is apparent to me that the Board is being stacked with people who are in sympathy with the errant faculty at La Sierra.”

      Those words were unkind, prejudicial and completely uncalled for.




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    72. Well, Geanna, Dr. Chadwick’s words may seem “unkind, prejudicial, and completely uncalled for” to you. However, they are also completely TRUE, which trumps your predudicial analysis!




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    73. @ Ron Stone M.D.

      Well, Geanna, Dr. Chadwick’s words may seem “unkind, prejudicial, and completely uncalled for” to you. However, they are also completely TRUE, which trumps your predudicial analysis!

      Dr. Stone,

      If you are asserting, with Dr. Chadwick, that the board is being stacked with members who sympathize with erring professors, please present your (or Dr. Chadwick’s) evidence. If you assert that the evidence is both true and trumps the statement made by Geanna Dane, you will need to “play your cards” (to keep the poker analogy going).

      David Kendall, PhD
      Adjunct Professor of Music
      La Sierra University




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    74. I think its cyberbullying to point out the sins, flaws, errors- whatever- of others online whether there is evidence or not. Why can’t we be nice here and just say there *might* be a problem?

      When I grew up I was taught civil discourse by my parents and teachers. I don’t always engage in it myself and I apologize for that. I’m trying to be a better representative of Jesus. I ask that others join me.




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    75. Here is a Chrisrtian book I’d like to recommend:

      Good Manners for Today’s Kids: Teaching Your Child the Right Things to Say and Do [Paperback]. Bob Barnes and Emilie Barnes (Authors). Harvest House Publishers (January 1, 2010). ISBN-10: 0736928111. ISBN-13: 978-0736928113.

      I think many adults would benefit from this gem of a book. Just $10.39 from Amazon.com!




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    76. The outcome of this meeting was not different than I expected, although I was praying for better results. The actions of the General Conference in Atlanta are encouraging, but we certainly aren’t out of the woods yet. I was shocked to learn this about La Sierra in the first place, and even more shocked to discuss the subject with more Adventist Schools when I was at the GC. Several representatives of Adventist colleges and universities told me that they too, teach and support the science ideas from La Sierra. Apparently there is a statement than has been signed by various schools as to their support of the creation doctrine. I do not know how to access this document. It should be made public to parents that have students nearing college age.




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    77. Geanna said –

      I wish that Dr. Chadwick was man enough to apologize for the negative statement he made about the new board members: Meredith Jobe, Alvin Kwiram, Alina Sanchez, James Kyle. He said:

      =====Chadwick said
      “Having just reviewed the changes made in the LSU Board, it is apparent to me that the Board is being stacked with people who are in sympathy with the errant faculty at La Sierra.”

      =============Geanna replied

      Those words were unkind, prejudicial and completely uncalled for.
      ———————————————————————

      BobRyan replies —

      We seem to have a style-over-substance game going in the above.

      Is Geanna saying that Chadwick is wrong if he thinks the new LSU boardmembers are supporting the LSU professors that promote evolutionism as if it were fact?

      OR Is Geanna saying that it is wrong for Chadwick to suggest promoting the work of pro-evolutionist professors at LSU would be a bad thing for LSU board members to do?

      OR is Geanna saying that it is wrong for Chadwick to suggest that any professor at LSU is actually promoting evolution?

      Or is the vague focus on “style over substance” supposed to be a way to get around the actual point of the controversy altogether. To complain without actually admitting to any facts?

      Inquiring minds would like to know.

      in Christ,

      Bob




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    78. The outcome of this meeting was not different than I expected, although I was praying for better results. The actions of the General Conference in Atlanta are encouraging, but we certainly aren’t out of the woods yet. I was shocked to learn this about La Sierra in the first place, and even more shocked to discuss the subject with more Adventist Schools when I was at the GC. Several representatives of Adventist colleges and universities told me that they too, teach and support the science ideas from La Sierra. Apparently there is a statement than has been signed by various schools as to their support of the creation doctrine. I do not know how to access this document. It should be made public to parents that have students nearing college age.  (Quote)

      A number of university representatives have come to this board strongly supporing the denomination’s doctrine on origins – including SAU and Soutwestern Adventist Univ.

      However as you point out – LSU may be the most visible university to encounter this problem – but they are not the only ones.

      I am sure the other schools that are stuck with this problem are watching to see how it gets solved.

      in Christ,

      Bob




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