Comment on Perspectives from alleged LSU students by Doug Carlson, Pastor.
David Kendall, BMus, MA: Pastor,
I am certain that you would not consider closing your local church if you had a number of youth members (or other members) in â€œopen rebellion against God.â€ I am afraid that this may be what drives many youth from the church. Rebellion (of different kinds) is a hallmark of the teen years, and I will remind everyone that a large number of our students are still in their teens. What better place could we desire than an Adventist institution (church or educational) in which students may safely ask questions and wrestle with difficult issues? If we were to close these institutions, we could then send our children to â€œthe world,â€ where we can be confident that the answers to their questions would not have anything to do with God. We need to keep the school open for just such
I have had a few churches I could not serve very well for some of the reasons we are discussing. When I had sincere, new interests contact me about coming to some of those churches, I have sent them off to other area churches to protect them from certain influences. The end concern is souls saved, not membership, or attendance. And one thing should be understood, no cngregation has the right to move itself in any direction it wants to go, and certainly no true pastor would try to appease such a congregation.
Also, No one is paying high tuition dollars to send themselves to a local church. Innocent youth are not left abandoned with corrupt worldlings and apostate professors at a local church, either. Good elders and true mothers in Isreal can ride herd on local youth when they need to. And, though it is never admitted to, sometimes churches are improved when certain personalities go stomping off in anger. They take with them the storm so a calm can return and growth can happen.
And indeed, in the past some conferences have actually padlocked some churches whose congregations had moved into open rebellion to protect those properties from misuse and from allowing wayward congregations from misusing our church name and misleading the innocent.
Do not for a moment think all pastors have been feminized by a miscoception of what real tolerance is. There are still a few warriors amoung us who are ready to fight the Lord’s battles, who do not believe every insult to our church, every act of rebellion is to be met with a surrendering smile of pained acceptance. Sometimes true love is strong like iron. Better to lose a few than many.
And yes, I am the same mid-night walker you once hiked with, Richard. I am so proud of you right now. On a personal note I have had a cancer battle going on this year. drop me an email sometime.
And I am the associate pastor at the Battle Creek Tab and know well its history and I am familar with the quotes shared above re conditions at the college in Battle Creek long ago. They apply fully to conditions now at LSU and a few other of our univeristies. I know a number of SDA pastors who quietly no longer can encourage SDA youth to attend any of our major colleges. Let conditions slip too far out of line with SDA beliefs and there may not be any teaching positions at LSU as wordlings start going where they really want to be and the religious turn to alternatives.
These are serious times.
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Doug Carlson, Pastor Also Commented
Perspectives from alleged LSU students
Brian Raines, You tell a sad story, but very true. I have heard this same story before. I do believe if our young people attended a public HS or college and met these same conditions they would be more on their guard. I have never believed in the idea that our schools were reformitories for lost SDA youth. I do know that the need for tuition dollars pushes a lot of these decisions, too.
David Kendall, BMus, MA: We are trying to educate young people for their future professions and vocations, by providing quality instruction and training in an Adventist Christian context. All of the professors with which I associate regularly see their work as both profession and mission. As both a graduate and as current faculty, I can attest to the effectiveness of the institution at accomplishing these goals. I can think of few better investments for the Lordâ€™s money.
Adjunct Professor of Music
La Sierra University
David, I do sympathize with your position. You sound like an honest, god-fearing teacher at LSU. I am sure there are others. How many, I do not know, but I am sure there are others. Is it possible for the honest faculty to petition the administration for a strict abherence to denominational standards by all teachers and removal of those who wander off into, I will use the term “offshoot” teachings? A few can and are jepordizing the security of those like yourself. This site is being shared with many SDAs. They know what is going on. It is sure to have an impact on enrollment eventually.
Richard, you can use the misda email address. Ask your pastor, he knows the address.
Recent Comments by Doug Carlson, Pastor
It is my opinion, that if one teacher on staff held to a non-biblical view of origins, that would be too many on that staff. I have seen young minds rally around the outcast rebel teacher. Such will always have a following; that following should not be from SDA youth at our colleges/universities. Let the rebel teach elsewhere- he has a world ready to embrace him as he strengthens its reasons for rejecting the Savvoir of the world who preached boldly, “Repent, for the kingdom of God ia at hand.” A sin-loving world is working hard to get out from under that commanding voice of Jesus. We as SDAs should not make it easier for the world to quiet that only voice that can save them from real sin.
Pastor Doug Carlson
Associate pastor, Battle Creek Tabernacle
Battle Creek, Michigan
Michigan Confernce of Seventh-day Adventists
It is just increasingly sad looking at this site. After revealing their shoddy journalist ethics and having to apologize to PUC, Educate Truth has been posting very old bits and pieces trying to keep this little witch hunt going. Now their dwindling readership is treated to year old comments regarding a visit to PUC that took place more than four years old. (Thatâ€™s a president and an entire student body ago!) Next, will Educate Truth be alerting the denomination to the fact that a dangerous seducer of the brethren teaches at PUC and who goes by the name: Desmond Ford?The denominational accrediting body has completed its visit at LSU and approved the university for another 8 years. Itâ€™s time to face that facts that if Educate Truth cannot get the church laity (and denominational leaders) to join their tired crusade against La Sierra University. . .it wonâ€™t work anywhere. If only more people would show this much dedication imitating Christ. . . (Quote)
In living a life imitating Jesus one would have to both follow that life in acts of kindness AND in theological belief. Anything less would be imitating the life of someone else, not Jesus. Maybe Jesus was a fool? After all, He believed in both the literal creation and the great Flood.
And if I remember correctly, Christianity is the name of a faith that is centered in following Jesus- the Christ. I’m not sure what some are advocating here. It certainly looks to me like they have a new messiah that is fossil based and not Bible based. I do know its a Something-anity that isn’t Christian, its not bibilical, and it will not save a person in sin from sin.
As Jesus believed and taught, so do I.
Pastor Doug Carlson
Associate Pastor, Battle Creek Tabernacle
Battle, Creek, Michigan
Bill,As you are well aware, Ellen White wrote:Sean Pitman has made clear that he does not believe any straightforward reading of her words. He insists that she cannot be referring to the age of the earth, but instead is referring to the age of life on the earth. Shane Hilde says he leans toward taking Ellen White at her words, but he does not think the SDA Church has an official position. I assume Bob Ryan believes she is correct, because he has cited this passage a hundred gumpteen zillion times.What about you. Do you believe that Ellen White was correct in stating the world is now only about six thousand years old, or do you, like Sean Pitman, think she was simply wrong? Do you believe Adventists generally dismiss her statement as wrong? Iâ€™ve been an SDA most of my life, and I am discovering there is a lot more subjectivity in interpreting inspiration than I had realized before. (Quote)
In response to the question, ” do ou believe Ellen White was correct…” I do simply state and declare, I do believe in a 6 literal day creation as described in Genesis and by Ellen White. I believe our earth is about 6,000 years old as chronicled in the Bible. These things are not difficult for me to understand
I do believe in the GAP theory, too. That human reasoning and knowledge has lots of GAPS in them that confuse amd lead many away from God. I believe Deut. 29: 29 gives us more answers then we generally give it credit for answering on this subject being duscussed here. Not familar with this verse? It lets us know that God has given us enough knowledge to get us through this world of sin and misery that is plagued by a literal fallen angel identifed as Satan.
And how is science doing on that- explaining the reality of demons and unfallen angels? A team of scientists from Central Michigan U came out to a house trailer in the area I once pastored in central Michigan in the late 80s- early 90s to investiage, scientificly a reported haunting. These scientists wired the house trailer all up to their instruments (yes, they had instruments for measuring this kind of thing- science is so, well, scientific these days!) so they could take a reading to see if the “spirit” manifestations in the house trailer where “positive” or “negative.” After their scientific work was done they told the lady living in the trailer “not to worry- the spirits in your house are positive spirits.” She was thrilled to know the spirit manifestations in her house trailer were positive and she had nothing to be concerned about. It made a nice converstaion piece, too, I”m sure, and after all, it was all very scientifically explained. Who can argue iwth science these days?
I think it is time to let grown men haggle over their scientific stuff. But some of us should gather our children around us and hold them close under the cloak of simple faith in God until the indignation is past.
BTW, Mt Everst is actually growing in height.
Pastor Doug Carlson
Associate Pastor, Battle Creek Tabernacle, Michigan Conference of Seventh-day Adventists.
LSU responds to Michigan Conference
I note my response above was edited. Sins that will keep a person out of the church were deleted and replaced the statemnt in . I feel sorry this was done. There is nothing wrong with calling sin sin, and there is still a standard within the SDA church that does exclude those who practice certain sins like….. Yes, I know I should not list them. But my church is not BIG enough to take in those living in those sins into its membership and embrace them.
The steps to acceptance- That’s right, there is no such thing as unconditional acceptance- must first go through the process of repentance, confessoin, forsaking and following as demonstrated by a life of himility and obedience before they can have eternal life.
It is true, a spade is always a spade, but a Christian has been born again and is no longer a spade. Spades can attend church, but they are not qualified for baptism or membership. And if spades what to openly advocate certian unchristian practices it is altogether fitting and proper to ask the spade to leave and not come back. Shepherds protect the flock, not the wolves, er, spades.
And I would also like to add, we as a church do not have to accept spades as students (or teachers) in our schools. On that point we are allowed to discriminate and protect the flock.
Associate pastor, Battle Creek Tabernacle
Battle Creek, MI: A Michigan Conference church
I believe the Michigan Conference is saying they will no longer subsidize tuition to LSU. They are certainly within their rights to take that position. The Mich Conf does not subsidize university tuition for our workers whose children are attending state universities. Also, as a pastor in the Michigan Conference other shortcomings have been noted in our academies and universities. I guess there is a line drawn in the sand and when the line was crossed by some of our teachers and leaders Michigan Conference has decided not to cross that line, too. They are the spiritual guardians of seventh-day Adventists in the State of Michigan and they are making a statement that they consider LSU is no longer a safe school for Michigan SDA students to attend.
There is nothing wrong in that position. Elder Gallimore has the heart of a true shepherd of the flock and I know he wants to give a good answer when asked by the Great Shepherd, “Where is my flock, my precious flock?” I know Jay personally. True to principle, yes, but he is very kind and gentle, too, and he wants to give a good accounting to Jesus someday when he is asked. We are blessed here in Michigan.
Pastor Doug Carlson
Associate Pastor, Battle Creek Tabernacle, Battle Creek, Michigan,
Michigan Conference of Seventh-day (literal creation taught there) Adventists