David, I will be glad to pray for you. …

Comment on Hope? Slim to none by Bob Helm.

David, I will be glad to pray for you. Please pray for me also; I make that request very sincerely. We definitely need to stand up for truth at this time, but we also need to speak the truth in love. And we need to pray for those who are in error because God loves them too!

What you are saying about sinless perfectionism and the moral influence theory is quite true. Both emphasize Christ as Example to the exclusion of Christ as Substitute. And while we usually think of sinless perfectionists as ultra-conservative and moral influence theorists as ultra-liberal, these neat categories don’t always hold up, because some of the otherwise liberal, moral influence people actually affirm sinless perfectionism. I’ve seen this occur more than once! In fact, in spite of their constant pleas for kindness and tolerance, liberals are often the most judgmental and legalistic people around.

But I agree with you that the creation/evolution issue is easier to understand that issues in soteriology. Even a person with a grade school education can understand the difference between God creating life and the biosphere in six literal days and the human race and other life forms evolving from lower organisms over vast eons of time. Sadly, I don’t think that we are dealing with confusion on this matter. I’m not even convinced that it’s strictly traditional church versus liberal church. What we have is one group of people who are truly converted and another group who are not. One group is sincere in wanting to follow Christ and His Word regardless of cost to themselves, while the other group is made up of people pleasers. This can only lead to a shaking. I don’t know what direction our denominational leadership will ultimately take. Our educational institutions and even our denominational organization may end up in a spiritual shipwreck. But we can be assured that God will have a faithful people who will stand up boldly for His Word and for His commandments and faith in Jesus. That group may end up being very small, but with God’s help, let’s determine to be among them!

Bob Helm Also Commented

Hope? Slim to none
Gentlemen, You may continue this conversation privately. Future comments will be deleted on the topic.
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Shane, I apologise for straying too far from the topic at hand. I should have broken off the conversation earlier. God bless!


Hope? Slim to none
Bill, let me tell you something else. Ellen White was not saying anything new. She was simply repeating what godly Christians have said for centuries about the relationship between faith and works. And no wonder, because it comes straight from the scriptures. For example, Martin Luther is well known for his emphasis on justification by grace alone through faith alone. But consider what he wrote about the necessity of obedience and good works: “Oh, it is a living, busy, active, mighty thing, this faith, and so it is impossible for it not to do good works incessantly. It does not ask whether there are good works to do, but before the question rises, it has already done them and is always at the doing of them. He who does not these works is a faithless man. . . For through faith, a man becomes sinless and comes to take pleasure in God’s commandments. Thus he gives to God the honor that is His and pays Him what he owes Him.” (Preface to Luther’s Commentary on Romans)

I submit to you that this statement from Martin Luther about obedience is every bit as strong as anything Ellen White wrote on the subject. It may even be stronger. But neither Martin nor Ellen were legalists. They were simply using strong language to emphasize the necessity of obedience as the fruit of faith.


Hope? Slim to none
Can you harmonize this statement with your theology, Bob Helm?

““When the judgment shall sit, and the books shall be opened, and every man shall be judged according to the things written in the books, then the tables of stone, hidden by God until that day, will be presented before the world as the standard of righteousness. Then men and women will see that the prerequisite of their salvation is obedience to the perfect law of God. None will find excuse for sin. By the righteous principles of that law, men will receive their sentence of life or of death.”

{RH, January 28, 1909 par. 18}
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Sure I can Bill. It’s just like comparing Paul with James. Grace is never an excuse for sin. On the contrary, while grace brings complete forgiveness, it also provides the power to stop sinning – because when we come face to face with the matchless love of Christ, it breaks our hearts and brings forth true love for Him. And love is expressed in obedience (John 14:15). Unless this loving obedience is present, saving faith is absent. It’s as simple as that! Or as James puts it, “Faith without works is dead.” (James 2:26) We are justified forensically by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone (Romans 3:19-28; Ephesians 2:8-9). But we are justified evidentially by good works (James 2:20-26). So certainly obedience to the perfect law of God is a prerequisite for salvation. It is the outward proof that faith in Christ is real. Therefore, I gladly affirm all the statements about obedience from Ellen White that you have posted above. This is precisely what I believe!


Recent Comments by Bob Helm

Dr. Walter Veith and the anti-vaccine arguments of Dr. Geert Vanden Bossche
I believe in good medicine and am thankful to God for the Moderna vaccine. Walter Veith deserves to be ignored, and not just on this issue.


Complex Organisms are Degenerating – Rapidly
@Carlos: Far from being outdated, I would say that Sean’s arguments are cutting edge. As for the assertion that scientists don’t use Darwin’s model for evolution, that is correct – because Darwin had no knowledge of Mendelian genetics. The original Darwinian model was replaced by the Neo-darwinian Synthesis about 1940, which claims that evolution takes place as natural selection acts on random mutations. Although this model still dominates biology today, it is facing increasingly serious problems, which Sean has touched on.


Complex Organisms are Degenerating – Rapidly
@Sean Pitman: OK, I see it now. Sorry – I missed it earlier.


Complex Organisms are Degenerating – Rapidly
Sean, Dr. John Sanford, who was an important contributor to the development of GMOs, has written a book on this issue entitled, “Genetic Entropy.” I don’t see him quoted anywhere in your article, and I’m wondering if you are familiar with his work. It is noteworthy that Dr. Sanford has abandoned Darwinism and adopted creationism/intelligent design, not originally for religious reasons, but because of this problem.


Evolution from Space?
Sean, once again I urge you to publish your material in book form, preferably with a non-Adventist publisher. You have such wonderful material, but the Educate Truth audience is so small.