LSU does not “teach in a vacuum”. I have no …

Comment on Record enrollment for LSU by BobRyan.

LSU does not “teach in a vacuum”. I have no doubt that they have support for what they are doing from some people at LLU and from many people in the SECC itself. Most of their mainline SECC supporters will likely never even see these pages.

Their current political challenge is primarily in the form of an SDA GC Administration willing to take “the necessary steps” to bring this problem to a close. The environment of the SECC provides LSU a lot of wiggle room slowly dragging their feet to provide some kind of token solution if that is the road they wish to take.

Our current organizational structure relies on spiritual maturity and insight of the constituents of the conferences and unions to make the necessary changes. The fact that the GC Admin is having to step in – in some way, reflects a degree of failure in that model when it comes to the SECC and the Pacific Union.

The problem is compounded at several levels all working together (possibly unwittingly) to create the end result.

The real remedy – the one plenty large enough to address an issue of this magnitude is the remedy we see Elder Wilson promoting here –

in Christ,


BobRyan Also Commented

Record enrollment for LSU
There was record breaking enrollment at Southern Adventist University this fall.

Southern Adventist University “smashes enrollment record” –

Southern Adventist University’s enrollment reached a major milestone this fall with 3,053 students

in Christ,


Record enrollment for LSU

Adventist in High School says:
October 13, 2010 @JImmy: Jimmy, it really isn’t worth it to argue with them here, I’ve tried previously. The fact is that us students do not want to go to a school that simply promotes church doctrine, we want a school that supports church doctrine while having a wide variety of view points within it’s faculty. Evidently that’s a novel concept.

IF we were in the business of hiring teachers that had a “wide variety of view points” on the doctrine on origins, the inspiration of the Bible, the mission of the church, Calvinism, praying to the dead, infant baptism, the Sabbath, the Heavenly Sanctuary… etc, we would be creating a bedlam of chaos and confusion in our church that would almost equal that which you can find in public education today.

I have attended both SDA and public universities – I know whereof I speak.

The whole point of an SDA university is to promote truth rather than merely promoting the confused bedlam of voices so common and intrinsic to the public university, for “diversity’s sake”.

The reason for diverting tithe and offering dollars to support and build SDA universities is to promote the mission and message of the SDA denomination. It is NOT to “create better evolutionary biologists than UC Berkley”. If some of our students choose to study evolutionary biology to demonstrate the fixed limits of variation within a static genome – that is wonderful. But that is not the stated mission, message or intent of biologists like Bradley.

The purpose of this web site was to make SDA parents aware of the problem.

Granted – the 440 freshmen signed up for LSU are NOT likely to all be biology majors anxious to get one last sacrifice-all-for-evolutionism lecture from Bradely or Fritz Guy. And one has to suppose that one or two of them may actually be looking to improve on Loui Bishop’s record. (Who knows what that kind of publicity is drawing). One thing is for certain, the next student to be slammed by the LSU professors for daring to suppose the Bible might have the right answer on the subject of origins is “now aware” of a great many more options than Bishop may ever have imagined.

in Christ,


Record enrollment for LSU

Jimmy said:
The position espoused on these pages supposes that the origins question is settled

Turns out that the doctrine on origins that we find in the Bible is pretty obvious. The only “question” on origins is how long will LSU have to evangelize for the atheist-centric view of origins promoted in evolutionism.

Darwin was finally forced to admit that the two doctrines on origins cannot be married to each other the way some theistic evolutionists would like to imagine.

Jimmy said:
so thanks for pointing out that we need open mindedness – my point exactly. As is evidence in the data, people will seek out truth as they are at LSU in record numbers (regardless of the dismissal by Mills above).

It is not clear at all that the 440 freshmen at LSU are all biology majors clammoring for all the evolutionism that LSU will choose to force down their throats. Or that they are all religion majors lining up for that last drop of evolutionist dogma coming from LSU’s religion department. Who knows maybe there are a few dozen more “Loui Bishops” in that crowd looking to make a name for themselves.

In fact with all the current focus on evolution at LSU — it is not even certain that the LSU all-evolutionism-all-the-time agenda will be as forthcoming as it has been in years past.

Time will tell.

Jimmy said:
The empty threats from conferences, GC, and the bizarre folks here won’t have an impact on that fact.

Well part of your statement is correct. If all LSU has to contend with is “empty threats from conference execs” then they will not change from last year’s apostasy-at-all-costs program in the religion and biology departments.

From what I see around the web, this conspiracy theory of yours is based on incomplete facts, poor sources, and downright lies.

That is a pretty good “no-sources” and “no-facts” example of an empty accusation. You should at the very least try to step up to the plate and MATCH the sources already posted at this site since you claim to have even better ones for making your case.

Jimmy said
I’m pretty close to this and am shocked that the naivety of these that think there is some movement or conspiracy that is anti-Adventist.

What do you mean by “anti-Adventist”??? Teaching a doctrine on origins that contradicts the 28 Fundamental Beliefs statement #6 and fits what 3SG 90-91 calls “the worst form of infidelity”?

Will you have “more clarity” on what is “anti-Adventist” once the FB#6 is made “lock step” with the “affirmation of creation” statement?

Jimmy said:
The distorted lens through which this site looks is pretty corrupt and is doing far more harm than any defective university professor has done or will do. A pretty sad legacy in my opinion, but knock yourself out

On what basis do you think this site is doing any harm at all? What is your source? Your data? Your evidence for that wild claim. Thin air? Inquiring minds want to know.

in Christ,


Recent Comments by BobRyan

Supreme Court Decision on Church Employment Case

Mack Ramsy:: : but the one thing we know for certain is that it was designed to change. There are so many back up and redundancies designed to make whatever changes that DNA faces to be profitable for the organism, or if their deleterious to ensure they don’t damage the subsequent generation (yes there are very complex methods for doing this) The immune system in fact does it intentionally.

Obviously the references above to “designed” and “intention” could not be overlooked by the objective unbiased reader applying a bit of critical thinking to the topic. And so my response below merely states the obvious point of agreement on a part of that post.

No wonder the application of a bit of critical thinking just then – demands that we conclude from your remarks above – that you are an example of an evolutionist that is strongly in favor of Intelligent Design. I too favor I.D.

Mack Ramsy:
Obviously the references abov

I don’t believe in ID as it’s traditionally defined. I believe that God created a system designed to evolve.

Obviously the references abov
In your earlier statement you claimed that system was designed with “redundancy and backup” features. That is not something rocks, gas and water could ever do – hence the term “Intelligent Design”.

But perhaps you have access to more highly advanced rocks, gas and water?

Also you mention “intention” as if the immune system was deliberately designed with an end goal in view.

As it turns out – it is those “intention” and “Intelligent Design” aspects (so key to your response above) that are at the very heart of I.D. enabled science were we have the freedom to “follow the data where it leads” even if it leads to a conclusion in favor of design that does not fit atheist dogma about there “being no god”.

how odd then that you seem to later back pedal on your prior observation.

Thus you seem to be in somewhat of a self-conflicted position at the moment.

At least given the content of your statements about “intent” and “backup systems” and “redundancy” designed into the systems themselves (even to the point of “error correction” as we see in the case of nucleic polypeptide amino acid chains and their chiral orientation).

Of course all that just gets us back here

Mack&#032Ramsy: My language in this forum is not formal. Try not to get caught up in semantic issues.

Out of curiosity is that statement supposed to provide a solution to just how it is that something “not designed” is able to exhibit unique design characteristics such as “back up systems” – “redundancy” – error correcting mechanism and an “immune system with intention” regarding a specific outcome or goal?

No doubt the study of biology most definitely shows us that such things are present “in nature” based on “observations in nature” – and so you are right to state it as you did.

So if you are then going to double back and reject what you just affirmed – what do you have by way of “explanation” for such a self-conflicted course?

Reaching for a solution of the form – “Pay no attention to my actual words if they do not serve to deny I.D.” does not provide as satisfactory resolution to the problem as you may have at first supposed.

in Christ,


Strumming the Attached Strings
@David Read:

Erv Taylor is not “afraid” to post here – but he is “Afraid” to have well thought out views posted on AToday that do not flatter his agenda.

That was not news right?

in Christ,


Michigan Conference vs. LSU – Right Wing Politics or Truth in Advertising?
@John J.:

John&#032J&#046: The fact remains, any decision direction or policy made by a church, conference, union or GCEC can be reversed or changed by those they serve.

Agreed and the fact that the constituency are not voting to reverse it – is a sign that this is not merely the views of the Administration in Michigan.

As for hierarchy – there is no doctrinal authority in the administrators.

And as for administrative hierarchy – the GC leadership has no authority to dismiss rogue teachers which is one of the reasons that this particular meltdown at LSU seems to go on and on and on. It slows at times and it speeds up at other times – but the fire is not simply put out.

in Christ,


A “Christian Agnostic”?

ken:: Let’s continue shall we. You posit that Adam and Eve were producing telomerase as adults as a result of eating fruit from the tree of life. Would you agree that the production of adult telomerase was a direct result of the environment or did the gene(s) affecting production of the a enzyme as adults mutate in their progeny?

1. I never stated whether the fruit from the Tree of Life provided the telemerase enzyme or simply provided a trigger enzyme/protein that caused Adam and Eve to produce Telemerase. Either way the end result was the same.

2. The salient point is that we have a known mechanism that affects the aging of cells starting with new borns.

This is simply “observation in nature” given in response to your question about an observed mechanism in humans for the 900 year life span the Bible mentions.

It is hard to “do the study” without having them under observation.

1. But it is not hard to see the gradual decline in ages over time.

2. It is not hard to see the Bible declare that access to the Tree of Life was the determining factor.

3. It is not hard to see that even in humans today – the ability remains for us to produce telemerase – but we quickly lose that ability.

4. It is not hard to see what effect that has on the telomeres of infants.

The list of knowns for this mechanism are far more impressive than the “I imagine a mechanism whereby static genomes acquire new coding genes not already present and functioning in nature and that this happens for billions of years”.

Ken: Hi BobWe are making good progress!Thanks for your admitting thaf we do not have Adam and Eve or their progeny under observation to do the study.

My pleasure.

Let’s look at the empirical results of your observation. There is no physical evidence that the progeny or descendants lived to 900 years, right? Thus there is no physical evidence that the tree of life provided longevity through the increased production or activation of telermerase right?

There is evidence that a mechanism does exist whereby access to an enzyme would in fact affect the aging process of human cells.

That mechanism is observed in nature to be related to the enzyme Telemerase.

There is a ton of evidence that food contains enzymes and proteins and that the human body can produce enzymes in response to the presence of trigger proteins and enzymes.

It is irrefutably true that humans still today produce telemerase in the case of infants just before birth. Impossible to deny it – though you seem to want to go down that dead end road.

You asked about the “mechanism” that can be observed today that would account for long ages of life recorded in the Bible.

You now seem to be pulling the classic “bait and switch” asking for the video of the people living for long ages before the flood.

Nice try —

As I said before – your method is along the lines of grasping at straws in a true “any ol’ exuse will do” fashion.

in Christ,


SDA Darwinians compromise key church doctrines
Rev 21 does not say the planet has no light – it says the City has no NEED of light from the Sun.

The inconvenient deatils point to the fact that the New Earth will have a Sun and Moon but the New Jerusalem will have eternal day due to the light of God’s presence.

This is not the hard part.

in Christ,