Re Ron’s Quote “The course did exactly what it was advertised …

Comment on An apology to PUC by Ken.

Re Ron’s Quote

“The course did exactly what it was advertised to do. The fact is that the pastors are going to have to meet the scientific evidence as it stands. Dr. Ness nor any other biology professor can give evidence for our belief in a short creation and a world wide flood because there is no evidence.”

Dear Ron

Let me start off by saying that I think the vast preponderance of evidence supports evolution. Moreover Adventist Dr. Ben Clausen of the GRI has said he does not think there is a scientific young earth model.

However after reading and debating with Dr.Pitman I don’t think I would venture so far as to say is no evidence for recent creation and a world wide flood. The question is whether the evidence can reasonably interpreted to support creationist conclusions.

Is that fair?

Your agnostic friend
Ken

Ken Also Commented

An apology to PUC
Dear Sean and Shane

Why has the SDA Church not published a scientific text on origins, compliant with FB# 6, to be taught at all Adventist Institutions? Can you really blame the institutions if such texts are not available? Or if they are why are you not promoting them as standardized texts.

Sean, as a leading advocate for overwhelming evidence supporting six day day recent creation, why don’t you simply write and publish a textbook and submit it to the GC for approval? After all you constantly refer to your website as containing such source material.

Just a thought.

Cheers
Ken


An apology to PUC
Re Sean’s Quote

“I have actually written and self-published a little book this year, “Turtles All the Way Down – Questions on Origins”. It can be ordered from my website using PayPal or from Amazon (a bit cheaper from my website). And, by all means, you are welcome to review it if you so wish…

Turtles All the Way Down”

Dear Sean

Good stuff. Now who can be enlisted from the Adventist community to get your book accredited and into the Adventist learning institutions?

Cheers
Ken


An apology to PUC
Re: Bob’s Quote

“In the recent GC session one of the items that came to light is the effort to put science text books together that show an SDA POV and that treet evolutionist speculation as “speculation”.”

Dear Bob

Thanks Bob. It seems to me that is the logical course of action and will take away a lot of ambiguity out of what is and is not being taught. Will it be accepted by all Adventist institutions? At least you’ll know each one’s exact, unequivocal stance

Re Ervin’s Quote

“The suggestion that Sean Pitman MD “write and publish a textbook [on creationism and evolution]” is an absolutely magnificent idea.”

Dear Ervin.

Thank you my friend.

Who better to do this than Sean? I think he has the knowledge, intelligence and drive to produce an excellent textbook on the science supporting biblical origins and the world wide flood.

Let’s take it a step further. Once the text is done he could present it to the GC, GRI and all the Adventist institutions for the SDA imprimatur. It doesn’t have to pass mainstream review as it is just being used for the purposes of teaching biological origins in Adventist Institutions.If the GC and church endorse it but none of the SDA colleges or universities will, the laity will draw the obvious conclusions.

Shane and Sean, wouldn’t this enhance the credibility of Educate Truth as being a proactive, educational, site, rather than being accused of being an attack dog?

Leadership means taking bold, decisive action. Dear readers, is it not time for an accredited SDA text on origins, in light of the comments of Ted Wilson at the GC? Isn’t Dr.Pitman the ideal candidate for the job? For goodness sakes the church should pay him to do so.

Note, I am not being sarcastic here. I believe this course of action is vital in light of the GC’s statements on origins. Does the weight of empirical evidence support biblical creationism and the Noachian deluge versus evolution over billions of years? Put the issue to the test with a SDA accredited text.

Your agnostic friend
Ken


Recent Comments by Ken

Supreme Court Decision on Church Employment Case
Hi Bob

I asked once before and I’ll ask again: what is your background and expertise in biology?

Your agnostic friend
Ken


Creeds and Fundamental Beliefs
Re: What every human being on the planet believes?

Empirically, as i don’t have blind faith I could know this, perhaps it could only be a divine being that could do so. šŸ™‚

Always open to correction though to those that know the absolute truth,

I remain,
Your agnostic friend
Ken


A “Christian Agnostic”?
Re Bob’s Quote

“But we can “observe” that the making of complex systems (and books, and works of art and science) is done by “creators” every day – observable, repeatable, testable. A mechanism proven to work.”

Hi Bob

Thanks for your comments.

This may surprise you but I’m actually intrigued by the design argument. My Dad is a Deist although I’m not of that bent, at least not yet! The laws of nature, i.e. gravity, that even allow the universe to exist are pretty marvelous. Did they arise as a result of a random quantum fluctuation or was their Grand Designer behind it all. If so what is or was the nature of such designer based on what we empirically observe about our universe?

The problem I have with intelligent design within our universe and especially regarding life on earth is theodicy. I do understand how the concept of original biblical sin accounts for the loss of perfection, but I have a very tough time understanding why a God would cause such destruction of his creation based on the disobedience of the literal eating of an apple. I just can’t rationally fathom how the eventual and natural demise of our solar system can be based on Man’s fall. Empirically, through science we can now view the death, and birth, of stars. Was this all caused by eating forbidden fruit?

Thus one must ask: why would a good, compassionate God create a Universe, and sentient life, that suffers and dies? Age old problem, that in my estimation has been allegorically resolved through the Genesis narrative.

Let’s move on to evolution. Micro evolution does not seem to be a problem for anyone. Life does adapt to its environment through genetic change. In my mind the issue becomes what happens over billions of years. After considering everything I have read to date I cannot honestly see an overwhelming case for a young earth. Moreover I have not read or heard anything yet that such a view can be scientifically supported by anyone without a biblical creationist bias. Given enough time great change will occur as evidenced by the vast diversity of life spread over every niche of our planet. Were there kangaroos on the Ark, or did they evolve in an isolated part of the world from whence they could not spread?

I don’t think evolution is a fraud or a hoax. Too many educated people of faith believe and accept it for it to be an atheist conspiracy. Have their been mistakes made and will they continue to be made? Are there dishonest scientists? Certainly. They are fallible humans, just like you and I, after all. But the issue is what does the weight of all the multidisciplinary evidence indicate?

Hope that helps

Your agnostic friend
Ken


Dr. Ariel Roth’s Creation Lectures for Teachers
Re Sean’s Quote

“Yes, I am suggesting that our scientists should also be theologians to some degree. I’m also suggesting that our theologians be scientists to some degree as well. There should be no distinct dividing line between the two disciplines…”

Hello Sean

First of all, thank you Holly for your comments. You have always treated me with civility and charity for which I am most grateful.

Secondly, on reflection, I do hope I was not strident or offensive in my recent remarks. I am a guest here and should behave with the utmost respect regarding my Adventist hosts. After all I was proposing the Chair of ID at an ‘Adventist’ institution! What gall and temerity from an agnostic!

However something Dr. Kime said struck a very strange chord in me: that a Chair in ID at Harvard would be a quantum leap ( forward – my edit) while such a Chair would be a step backward at LSU. I’ m very sorry Wes, but for me to honestly investigate reality such double standard is not acceptable.

I am sad today, because I think I’m coming to the end of my Adventist journey. I really did see ID as a sort of bridge between your faith and objective inquiry about a ‘Grand’ Design. (apologies Mr. Hawkings). Oh Wes , perhaps I am ontological Don Quixote after all, comically tilting towards immovable Adventist windmills. šŸ™ .

However all is not forlorn because I’ve made excellent friends of the heart here. ;). I won’t forget you.

Good luck in your pursuit of God.

Goodbye
Your agnostic friend
Ken


Dr. Ariel Roth’s Creation Lectures for Teachers
Re Sean’s Quote

“Public association is one thing. Private association is another. While many do not feel at liberty to publicly associate themselves with our work here (for obvious reasons), most who still believe in SDA fundamentals (and who are aware of the longstanding situation at LSU and other places) feel that our work in providing enhanced transparency for what is being taught to our young people in our schools was/is necessary on some level.”

Hi Sean

The irony here is that those that are supporting institutional enhanced transparency are hiding behind cloaks of anonymity. That’s not how you, I, Wes, Bob Ryan, Wes, Bill Sorenson and many others here behave. Imagine if Jesus hid behind a cloak and didn’t proclaim his nature. What legacy of respect would he have left?

Conviction requires courage period.

Your agnostic friend
Ken