Johnny Vance, I appreciated your examples of rebuke from John …

Comment on An apology to PUC by Johnny Vance.

Johnny Vance, I appreciated your examples of rebuke from John the Baptist, Jesus Christ, and Ellen White. You’re in mighty good company. Who am I to put Matthew 18 in your way? Feel entitled to rebuke anyone you wish.  (Quote)

Oh dear. It’s a pyrrhic victory indeed to prove the point but still not gain the heart. I regret that much.

Johnny Vance Also Commented

An apology to PUC
@OTNT and BobRyan: Thank you for the clarification. I see where this argument is going. We will always have opportunities and hooks to hang our doubts on. I suppose you can dig for hooks and hang all the doubts you want on them. It seems like OTNT is focusing on the cup being half-empty argument.

“Have faith in the LORD your God and you will be upheld; have faith in his prophets and you will be successful.” 2 Chronicles 20:20


An apology to PUC
@OTNT_Believer: I’m just curious. What was wrong/mistaken about her visions of the planets?


An apology to PUC
@Professor Kent: I have prayerfully considered your post concerning Matthew 18. I ask that you all prayerfully consider the following conclusions brought forth from the Bible and Spirit of Prophecy: Matthew 18 is clearly NOT applied to public sins, and much less does it apply to open apostasy.

Matthew 18 is a principle given to guide us. Matthew 18 is not something to hide behind; it’s not a cop-out. Who’s to say that the student who recorded the video had not tried Matthew 18 with the Theology department or others at PUC?

I know of a PUC Alumnus who took a grievance about a professor promoting heresy through the proper channels all the way up to the college president. He was ignored. This was 18 years ago, and the professor in question is still there doing the exact same thing.

The church manual is addressing more specifically “litigious” matters. In other words, lawsuits and other grievances between the church or its institutions against an individual member, or vice versa. This is clear. In matters of heresy and doctrinal error that endangers the welfare of the church we must rightly divide the word, even if it must divide the church. Yes, dividing the church is always preferable to compromising with error. Unity with known error is disunity with Christ. We have Biblical examples and precedent of this application in the Spirit of Prophecy.

1) Consider John the Baptist’s and Jesus’ public denunciation of the Pharisees. When Jesus cleansed the temple He publicly rebuked the priests who had corrupted the house of God. No Matthew 18 there. Should Jesus have taken the priests aside privately and rebuked them for their public profanation of the temple? He also publicly rebuked disciples who weren’t committed to Him:

“By the public rebuke of their unbelief these disciples were still further alienated from Jesus. They were greatly displeased, and wishing to wound the Saviour and gratify the malice of the Pharisees, they turned their backs upon Him, and left Him with disdain.” Desire of Ages p. 391

2)Elijah publicly rebuked Ahab and his household.

3) Ellen White was also accused of breaking Matthew 18. This is how they answered to this accusation:
“Her husband seemed to feel unreconciled to my bringing out her faults before the church and stated that if Sister White had followed the directions of our Lord in Matthew 18:15-17 he should not have felt hurt…My husband then stated that he should understand that these words of our Lord had reference to cases of personal trespass, and could not be applied in the case of this sister. She had not trespassed against Sister White. But that which had been reproved publicly was public wrongs which threatened the prosperity of the church and the cause. Here, said my husband, is a text applicable to the case: 1 Timothy 5:20: “Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.” 2 Testimonies page 15

Professor Kent, even though Matthew 18 does not apply to the situation at PUC and LSU, students and other concerned parties have nonetheless gone through all the preliminary steps in Matthew 18. Now it’s public because the preliminary steps have been exhausted. This issue cannot and should not ever be hidden from the public, because it affects the welfare of the church as a whole. It’s only fair that the church perform its duty to ensure that their children get the Adventist education they were promised.I especially include the student who recorded the lecture.

I also recommend looking at these two articles from non-SDA sources addressing the application of Matthew 18 to public matters. They are of merit.
http://highlands-reformed.com/conflict-and-confrontation-series/
http://www.erwm.com/MatthewEighteen.htm


Recent Comments by Johnny Vance

Two Adventist Universities Promote Six-Day Creation
@PUC Student: As a recent graduate of PUC, I strongly disagree with your assertion. Please provide proof to the contrary. If there’s nothing to hide, then providing it in any form should not be a problem 😉


Back to Square One…
On the issue of Harvard’s accreditation: I stand corrected! My apologies for my incomplete understanding of the matter…


Back to Square One…
I don’t understand why our educational institutions have ignored counsels from the Spirit of Prophecy. We are clearly told to NOT seek secular accreditation. Why do we care about WASC? Do we lack in faith to believe that God will uphold the credibility of His institutions?

Let all be reminded that Ivy league schools like Harvard DO NOT have accreditation. Their reputation precedes them. The Lord can do the same for His.


WASC Reviews LSU’s Accreditation
At what point do we stop casting pearls to the pigs? I’m getting weary of this controversy.


Panda’s Thumb: ‘SDAs are split over evolution’
@Professor Kent:

@ Johnny VanceSo, YOU claim to be able to judge from the many student comments their philosophy and spirituality? And YOU can decipher, whilst I cannot, that the vast majority were “postmodern” and “lacking in spirituality?” And I can be deceived while YOU cannot?When you choose to believe the very few, Johnny, you reveal your obvious and very selective bias. You can cherry-pick as well as anyone here. And you’ve proven your arrogance.  (Quote)

I’m not offended by Sean’s assertions about faith and evidence. I’m with Sean to a large extent (as far as I can tell). God gives us evidence to believe and back up His word, although there will be some things we’ll just have to take by faith until it’s made clear to our minds (maybe in Heaven?). But don’t try to use me as a pawn in your dislike of Sean.

You also neglect to note that in the great controversy between good and evil, the majority does not constitute the right side, unfortunately. Only 8 chose to enter the ark. Only a minority believed in Christ. Only a minority will resist the popular waves of anti-biblical worship. I can say that your judgment of students’ comments and Dr. Ness’s video are wrong, but how dare I say that you are wrong? I don’t believe it’s arrogant to say you are wrong. I’m not insulting you as you are insulting me. If we’re having an honest and open dialogue about the situation, then you should be able to AT LEAST take back what you dish out without threatening to leave the church because some of us dare to say you are wrong, or this and that is wrong. Don’t try to blackmail people for stating their mind.

I really wonder if you read the same Bible and the same Testimonies to the Church that I read, because I can’t for the life of me figure out how you can come up with such drastically opposed conclusions. I just state the former because you claim to believe in the Bible and Spirit of Prophecy, and I am truly perplexed by your conclusion.