Comment on The Metamorphosis of La Sierra University: an eye-witness account by BobRyan.
While this discussion continues – the scientific community is going through what it calls a second Copernican revolution over discoveries of earth-like (rock) planets made this year.
TED (Technology Entertainment and Design) conference video – the speaker is a NASA scientist working with the Kepler space-based telescope.
BobRyan Also Commented
The Metamorphosis of La Sierra University: an eye-witness account
Whatever happens to LSU the denomination needs to be thinking about LLU, Andrews, WWU and others that are facing internal struggles with this issue.
There is a lesson to be learned in the LSU story — Given time and sufficient political maneuvering the conservatives will gradually retire and the pro-evolutionist group will eventually gain control of both religion and biology departments.
The reason for that is four fold –
1. Our SDA professors are being urged to get their doctorates from non-SDA all-evolution all-the-time universities as this helps with accreditation and ranking. They tend to get “first pick” if they do that – and they know it.
2. The degree to which our students are exposed to actual pro-Creation science is limited though we have a few schools with good initiatives. Most of the pro-creation emphasis our students get is from the religion department. There are groups like ICR and Discovery Institute that aggressively push the creation sciencce aspect, in fact the SDA denomination is credited as the founding-father of creation science. But sad to say – and aside from Discovery Institute we are drifting into neutral and are no longer “known” in the creation science groups for being in a leadership role.
We should have stayed at the “head” on this one and the fact that we talked ourselves into drifting back to a neutral milk-toast position has had long term bad effects. Creation science visionaries like Ariel Roth are becoming more the exception than the rule.
3. The junk-science religion of evolutionism is NOT the EASY problem of Kellogg’s “Living Temple” where if you turned off the power to the source – the light simply goes out. Our schools are still obligated to teach the basics on evolutionism – even when they believe it to be false religion.
This problem will not be fixed until we publish our own books on the subject – exposing evolutionism for what it is – stating its claims and exposing its flaws. As long as we send our students and professors to pro-evolutionist text books to get their information – we are risking the very problem Ellen White was warned about in such cases.
4. The general Adventist population of today is much less informed and focused on Bible topics and the writings of Ellen White (per capita) than in prior decades. Thus liberalism in general has gained a strong foothold even apart from evolutionism. That means that even non-evolutionists at all levels of leadership will often be in the form of liberals whose primary model is “to each his own” in an all “I’m Ok you’re OK” – can’t we all get along model of protectionism regarding bad ideas. In their view it is much worse declares something to be wrong or evil – than it is just to let the evil continue. In their thinking – if you are nice to people who have wrong ideas – they will eventually all have good ideas and if evolutionists don’t come around to truth – who cares because God loves us all anyway and isn’t that the whole point?
For the liberal mind set – the only real danger in error – is that it might stir up a conservative to say somebody is “wrong” in way that makes that person “feel less than”. In their mind – meeting the problem “head on” is the worst possible choice. Better that libs and conservatives simply “have more church socials”.
That group is possibly several orders of magnitude larger than the number of actual pro-evolutionists among us. They will oppose efforts to solve the problem even while they agree with creationism.
Hans Zwick says:
September 8, 2010… they try forever to connect some culture to the Neanderthals when human history does not trace further back in time then about 2200 BC, with one post Flood Ice Age.
That is what I studied out with a e-mail friend, the history of the Bible lands. We discovered written evidence that the Queen of Sheba was Queen Hatshepsut, that Shishak was Thutmose III, that the Amarna period belongs in the days of Ahab, that Ben Hadad was known under several names including Ashurnasirpal of which I was able to find some proof in old archaeology magazines from 1905 I believe it was. That makes Ramses II pharaoh Necho of the Book of Jeremiah and the Greek authors whose chief of staff was Necharomes, (garve found in 2002) – the name is made up of Necho – Ramses. As the king’s diplomat he had the right to name himself after his master and how he was non in Egypt and by the Greeks.
Thank you for that thought provoking post – what sources did you use?
“they successfully selected” is right–Fritz Guy then Lawrence Geraty then Randall Wisbey. All left-wing liberals who value secular humanistic philosophies over God’s Truth. Is it any wonder we have this problem at LSU?! (Quote)
Indeed Fritz Guy has since then made his choice for error clearly known to all. In so doing he has shed some light on the back-room strategies worked out in past years – confirming many of the statements made by the author of the text above.
I have stated numerous times on this web site that there are those at LSU whose agenda is to “make LSU the best public university that Adventist tuition, offering and tithe dollars can buy”.
The author of the article above stated the same thing in this way
Their vision was to move the campus away from being a sectarian university that teaches SDA beliefs, and (as was at times openly stated) to take LLU-LS out of the SDA educational system
Recent Comments by BobRyan
Mack Ramsy:: : but the one thing we know for certain is that it was designed to change. There are so many back up and redundancies designed to make whatever changes that DNA faces to be profitable for the organism, or if their deleterious to ensure they don’t damage the subsequent generation (yes there are very complex methods for doing this) The immune system in fact does it intentionally.
Obviously the references above to “designed” and “intention” could not be overlooked by the objective unbiased reader applying a bit of critical thinking to the topic. And so my response below merely states the obvious point of agreement on a part of that post.
No wonder the application of a bit of critical thinking just then – demands that we conclude from your remarks above – that you are an example of an evolutionist that is strongly in favor of Intelligent Design. I too favor I.D.
Obviously the references abov
I don’t believe in ID as it’s traditionally defined. I believe that God created a system designed to evolve.
Obviously the references abov
In your earlier statement you claimed that system was designed with “redundancy and backup” features. That is not something rocks, gas and water could ever do – hence the term “Intelligent Design”.
But perhaps you have access to more highly advanced rocks, gas and water?
Also you mention “intention” as if the immune system was deliberately designed with an end goal in view.
As it turns out – it is those “intention” and “Intelligent Design” aspects (so key to your response above) that are at the very heart of I.D. enabled science were we have the freedom to “follow the data where it leads” even if it leads to a conclusion in favor of design that does not fit atheist dogma about there “being no god”.
how odd then that you seem to later back pedal on your prior observation.
Thus you seem to be in somewhat of a self-conflicted position at the moment.
At least given the content of your statements about “intent” and “backup systems” and “redundancy” designed into the systems themselves (even to the point of “error correction” as we see in the case of nucleic polypeptide amino acid chains and their chiral orientation).
Of course all that just gets us back here
Mack Ramsy: My language in this forum is not formal. Try not to get caught up in semantic issues.
Out of curiosity is that statement supposed to provide a solution to just how it is that something “not designed” is able to exhibit unique design characteristics such as “back up systems” – “redundancy” – error correcting mechanism and an “immune system with intention” regarding a specific outcome or goal?
No doubt the study of biology most definitely shows us that such things are present “in nature” based on “observations in nature” – and so you are right to state it as you did.
So if you are then going to double back and reject what you just affirmed – what do you have by way of “explanation” for such a self-conflicted course?
Reaching for a solution of the form – “Pay no attention to my actual words if they do not serve to deny I.D.” does not provide as satisfactory resolution to the problem as you may have at first supposed.
Erv Taylor is not “afraid” to post here – but he is “Afraid” to have well thought out views posted on AToday that do not flatter his agenda.
That was not news right?
John J.: The fact remains, any decision direction or policy made by a church, conference, union or GCEC can be reversed or changed by those they serve.
Agreed and the fact that the constituency are not voting to reverse it – is a sign that this is not merely the views of the Administration in Michigan.
As for hierarchy – there is no doctrinal authority in the administrators.
And as for administrative hierarchy – the GC leadership has no authority to dismiss rogue teachers which is one of the reasons that this particular meltdown at LSU seems to go on and on and on. It slows at times and it speeds up at other times – but the fire is not simply put out.
ken:: Let’s continue shall we. You posit that Adam and Eve were producing telomerase as adults as a result of eating fruit from the tree of life. Would you agree that the production of adult telomerase was a direct result of the environment or did the gene(s) affecting production of the a enzyme as adults mutate in their progeny?
1. I never stated whether the fruit from the Tree of Life provided the telemerase enzyme or simply provided a trigger enzyme/protein that caused Adam and Eve to produce Telemerase. Either way the end result was the same.
2. The salient point is that we have a known mechanism that affects the aging of cells starting with new borns.
This is simply “observation in nature” given in response to your question about an observed mechanism in humans for the 900 year life span the Bible mentions.
It is hard to “do the study” without having them under observation.
1. But it is not hard to see the gradual decline in ages over time.
2. It is not hard to see the Bible declare that access to the Tree of Life was the determining factor.
3. It is not hard to see that even in humans today – the ability remains for us to produce telemerase – but we quickly lose that ability.
4. It is not hard to see what effect that has on the telomeres of infants.
The list of knowns for this mechanism are far more impressive than the “I imagine a mechanism whereby static genomes acquire new coding genes not already present and functioning in nature and that this happens for billions of years”.
Ken: Hi BobWe are making good progress!Thanks for your admitting thaf we do not have Adam and Eve or their progeny under observation to do the study.
Let’s look at the empirical results of your observation. There is no physical evidence that the progeny or descendants lived to 900 years, right? Thus there is no physical evidence that the tree of life provided longevity through the increased production or activation of telermerase right?
There is evidence that a mechanism does exist whereby access to an enzyme would in fact affect the aging process of human cells.
That mechanism is observed in nature to be related to the enzyme Telemerase.
There is a ton of evidence that food contains enzymes and proteins and that the human body can produce enzymes in response to the presence of trigger proteins and enzymes.
It is irrefutably true that humans still today produce telemerase in the case of infants just before birth. Impossible to deny it – though you seem to want to go down that dead end road.
You asked about the “mechanism” that can be observed today that would account for long ages of life recorded in the Bible.
You now seem to be pulling the classic “bait and switch” asking for the video of the people living for long ages before the flood.
Nice try —
As I said before – your method is along the lines of grasping at straws in a true “any ol’ exuse will do” fashion.
SDA Darwinians compromise key church doctrines
Rev 21 does not say the planet has no light – it says the City has no NEED of light from the Sun.
The inconvenient deatils point to the fact that the New Earth will have a Sun and Moon but the New Jerusalem will have eternal day due to the light of God’s presence.
This is not the hard part.