[6/17/11 UPDATE] Two administrators, one biology professor, and one board member resign

Educate Truth shares the following article from Spectrum as a service to readers.

“Two administrators, one professor, and one board member were asked to resign on Friday,” according to Spectrum blog editor Alexander Carpenter.

The president and the provost of La Sierra University regret to announce the resignations of four members of our university family.

On Friday, June 10, Board Chair Ricardo Graham requested the resignations of Dr. Jeff Kaatz from his position as Vice President for University Advancement, Dr. Jim Beach from his position as Dean of the College of Arts & Sciences, Dr. Gary Bradley from his part-time faculty position in the Biology Department, and Mr. Lenny Darnell from the Board of Trustees.

These resignations have been accepted and are effective immediately. Campus administration is unable, at this time, to offer any additional details regarding the decisions of these individuals. Further information will be made available as appropriate.

We invite you to keep our campus in your prayers as we move through this difficult time for the university.

UPDATE 6/13/11: It’s been confirmed from multiple sources that these resignations have nothing to do with the biology department. LSU has not yet given a reason for the resignations.

UPDATE 6/17/11: Beach and Kaatz are both still employed at La Sierra University as tenured faculty. Bradley, Beach, and Kaatz were all at-will employees in the positions they resigned from.

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233 thoughts on “[6/17/11 UPDATE] Two administrators, one biology professor, and one board member resign

  1. If this has anything to do with what LSU has been doing the last 10+ years, I wonder what board member Jeff Kaatz has to do with all of this.

    This must be a difficult thing for those who are losing their jobs. It’s unfortunate that LSU and our church let it get to this point in the first place.




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  2. I predicted there would be some “fall guys” taking the blame. So, we now have some “fall guys” gone, but when are the real culprits going to get the boot–Wisbey, Graham, te actual Biol. Profs,etc?

    My guess is never!

    Did Graham say WHY these people were shouldering the blame?




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  3. Spectrum is claiming that LSU is claiming that the resignations have nothiing to do with the biology conflict. This is an email that was allegedly sent to all the faculty at LSU:

    Last night you received notification of the resignations of four campus leaders. Already we have heard reports of a great deal of speculation taking place on campus and on the internet.

    Please understand these resignations have no connection to the biology controversy. There is also no connection with students.

    La Sierra University’s President and Provost learned of the situation Friday afternoon. Since then, the administration continues to deal with the matter fully in accordance with internal University policies and our commitments as a Seventh-day Adventist University.

    Further information will be made available as appropriate.

    University administration requests that as you speak with students, you communicate the above information. Please note, too, that university policies are being carefully followed. The university is committed to ensuring that students have a successful final week and an outstanding graduation weekend.

    We encourage each of you to keep our campus family and our students in your prayers.




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  4. Shane, So what does the administration say these resignations are about? Bad hair day?

    Also, are the “university’s policies” to keep us in the dark about such matters?




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  5. I attended LSU several years ago as a biology major, and had the pleasure of having Dr. Gary Bradley as one of my teachers. He was one of the best. Intelligent, energetic, and passionate about teaching students. What a sad day for La Sierra University biology students. A strong believer, who was not afraid to question and discuss the “big” issues that were confusing to many students. This is just tragic.




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  6. Bradley is the only person that clearly has a link to the sacrifice-all-for-evolutinism strategy in the LSU biology department based on his own statements to the press.

    Other than that – I am tempted to believe Graham when he states that this action has nothing at all to do with the LSU board trying to change course at LSU away from the all-for-evolutionism agendas of the past.

    If Graham is claiming that these are administrative actions that are needed entirely apart from the LSU crisis over evolutionism then I am giving him the benefit of the doubt on that point.

    Clearly it would have been in his favor to claim that these actions represent a major change in policy away from the old “all for evolutionism” strategy of the past. Since he is not going there – then perhaps this has nothing at all to do with fixing that problem.

    (Though clearly the issue with Bradley leaves at least a part of that claim in doubt.)

    in Christ,

    Bob




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  7. Kari W.:
    I attended LSU several years ago as a biology major, and had the pleasure of having Dr. Gary Bradley as one of my teachers. He was one of the best.Intelligent, energetic, and passionate about teaching students.What a sad day for La Sierra University biology students.A strong believer, who was not afraid to question and discuss the “big” issues that were confusing to many students. This is just tragic.

    I TOTALLY agree Kari. I was a biology major too and Dr. Bradley was one of my favorite teachers and role models. This is total GARBAGE! LSU is on it’s way to being an unaccredited bible school. It’s very sad because I love LSU. And it’s obvious that this IS because of the evolution controversy. I don’t care what anyone says. Shame on you Shane Hilde and everyone else at “educate truth” for being so shallow and unloving towards your fellow human beings. You are completely wrong in what you are doing beyond what you can understand. You’re so threatened by the theory of evolution and your faith is so weak that you are willing to get people fired from jobs they love just because evolution makes YOU feel uncomfortable. I hope you someday feel guilt and regret this terrible deed you have done.




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    • @Casey:

      Why would following the Bible story of creation be unloving? This is a philosophical issue. If I were a democrat why would I join the GOP? If I didn’t believe the bible, why would I go to a christian school to learn about evolution? Get real people, LSU belongs to the church, not the other way around.




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      • @shayne: When did I ever say that following the Bible story of creation is unloving. I said “Educate Truth” is unloving. Not because they believe in the literal translation of the Bible. But because they are so vehemently and hatefully against those who don’t.




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  8. Casey: I don’t care what anyone says.

    Casey, LSU said themselves this has nothing to do with the biology issue. It we assume they are telling the truth, and I believe they are, there must be something else going on here. Whatever these men did, Educate Truth had nothing to do with it.




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  9. BobRyan: Bradley is the only person that clearly has a link to the sacrifice-all-for-evolutinism strategy in the LSU biology department based on his own statements to the press.

    Your characterization of an entire department (and in prior posts an entire university) as “sacrifice-all-for-evolutionism” because of the views of a few individuals is nothing more than propaganda. Do you truly believe in educating truth?




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  10. That’s garbage and you know it Shane. Although I don’t expect someone with your lack of integrity to admit it. I know for a fact that there is NO reason to fire Gary Bradley other than his support of science being attacked by ignorant people like you who made waves in the church and at LSU. They are willing to lose their WASC accreditation before they lose their SDA accreditation so they responded to the likes of you and your cult. PERIOD.




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    • @Casey:

      I really just want to start a slow clap for you because you have summarized exactly how I am feeling now. I am a current student at LSU, just finished taking genetics from Dr. Bradley last quarter and Dr. Bradley is definitely the best thing that the LSU biology department had going for it. Fact of the matter is that it seems as those people at Educate Truth along with the other radicals out there care only about the issue, not about the actual students, otherwise they wouldn’t be putting us through this bullshit.




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      • @mrs1329: Thank you, I was starting to feel pretty lonesome on this thread. I am sorry that you and the rest of the bio students have to finish your college careers without Dr. Bradley. My experience there would have been much less fulfilling without him. We can honor him for standing up for what is right and follow in his footsteps. Good luck with finals!




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  11. Casey: I TOTALLY agree Kari. I was a biology major too and Dr. Bradley was one of my favorite teachers and role models. This is total GARBAGE! LSU is on it’s way to being an unaccredited bible school. It’s very sad because I love LSU. And it’s obvious that this IS because of the evolution controversy. I don’t care what anyone says. Shame on you Shane Hilde and everyone else at “educate truth” for being so shallow and unloving towards your fellow human beings. You are completely wrong in what you are doing beyond what you can understand. You’re so threatened by the theory of evolution and your faith is so weak that you are willing to get people fired from jobs they love just because evolution makes YOU feel uncomfortable. I hope you someday feel guilt and regret this terrible deed you have done.

    It seems a few commentators didn’t notice that the resignations have nothing to do with the biology conflict. Therefore also having nothing to do with Shane Hilde or this website.

    ——————–

    Regarding the comments as to ‘exposing’ the real reasons:

    It is entirely possible that there is no cover-up, that these indeed have nothing to do with the conflict over teaching creation versus teaching evolution.

    It could even be four separate issues which happened to be handled at the same time by the chairman.

    Whichever the case, we can only take their word that it is not about the conflict in the biology department. This means the reasons really are none of our business unless those involved choose to reveal the details to us.

    It is not moral for us to merely speculate that they would do this because of said conflict and then claim it is unrelated.

    The privacy of the individuals should be maintained unless there is clear reasoning not to do so, in accordance with Biblical principles.




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  12. Kevin, Even if the resignations have nothing to do with the evolution controversy (which I believe they did at least for Dr. Bradley) it still stands that what “educate truth” is doing is wrong and petty. And the people behind this website are shallow and unscrupulous. I would not be surprised if they did this “because of said conflict and then claim it is unrelated”. Many organizations cover up/deny the reason(s) for making controversial decisions. They are trying to fend off fire. I think it’s naive to think it has nothing to do with the evolution controversy.




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  13. Why would following the Bible story of creation be unloving? This is a philosophical issue. If I were a democrat why would I join the GOP? If I didn’t believe the bible, why would I go to a christian school to learn about evolution? Get real people, LSU belongs to the church, not the other way around.

    (Just incase you thought my comments came from Hilde)




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    • @Shayne Vincent: Dear Sir,
      If one is a democrat, is there anything wrong in knowing and understanding what the GOP stands for? If one is a Christian, does discussion regarding Buddhism compromise one’s state of Grace?
      The point of a University is the reason through multiple points of view, and then determine which of those is true. This cannot be done if only one set of ideas is represented. And remember, the University system was, itself, designed by the Christian church, as a way to encourage and expand our understanding of the universe.




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      • SATBGIRL: And remember, the University system was, itself, designed by the Christian church, as a way to encourage and expand our understanding of the universe

        @SATBGIRL:

        Point well taken – we should go back and look at just why the SDA church decided to divert tithe, gifts, offering money to establish a university at all.

        Why not just funnel all of those resources into more Gospel evangelism and leave the teaching of evolution to the existing schools of the late 1800’s and early 1900’s?

        Was it because Adventists were bent on promoting belief in evolutionism even though 3SG 90-91 identifies it as the “worst form of infidelity”??

        Is that why we created these institutions?

        Was it because we had the gospel mission of “better calculus… better physics… more devotion to evolution” and we were dissappointed in the failed efforts of other universities to provide those benefits to mankind?

        How wonderful to have a Math Physics Chem department at LSU where professors can model the blend of science and religion without compromising either.

        How sad that the LSU biology and religion departments could not master that same level of accomplishment.

        You rightly argue that we should look at our founding mission and goals when we created our schools.

        By contrast a number of complainers have come to EducateTruth and insisted that we NOT go back to the original purpose and mission for schools like LSU. Their arguments are effectively insisting that our new mission should be “to be the best public university that SDA tithe, tuition and offering dollars can buy”.

        Your post exemplifies the high goals of such a public university. Turns out the world already has them. No need to divert SDA tithe, offering and tuition dollars to create more.

        in Christ,

        Bob




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  14. I have to agree with Shane’s stance: we do not know the reasons for the resignation requests. The reasons may involve ideological issues, legal issues, policy issues, or morality issues, and the issues may or may not be related for the four individuals.

    The chief concern of WASC (the secular accreditation organization) will be whether internal policy was adhered to, and the communication from LSU indicates this to be the case.

    I had heard that Dr. Bradley was a terrific teacher, and that he and other faculty members are treating SDA views on origins respectfully, as they should be. It what I was told is true, it would be sad if he was asked to resign his part-time teaching to appease the Educate Truth crowd.




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  15. LSU has made it very clear Bradley was not asked to resign because of the biology conflict. It appears that there is something entirely different going on, if we assume what they’re saying is true, and I think it is.




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  16. @Shane: What educate truth is doing that is wrong and petty: trying to get people fired over upholding academic integrity, when these people indeed care deeply about their students and are quality teachers, trying to turn people against La Sierra with your campaign, putting a lot of time and effort into crying over the fact that La Sierra biology teachers teach evolution when in fact they would be unfair and dishonest teachers to leave it out. Insisting that creation be taught in a science class which is completely absurd and screams scientific ignorance. Seriously? an entire website dedicated to smear a good school and teachers within. Truly pathetic and whats more amazing is that it’s starting to work. If you need more reasons I think rereading the comment of “City Lights – Mon, 06/13/2011 – 20:11” on the spectrum website is very accurate




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    • @Casey:

      Why is Creation absurd? You presume too much. If we as Church members believe the bible, is it appropriate to call us ignorant? Or why would it be inappropriate to ask a Christian school to follow the Bible. If you want to believe in evolution, then go to a State university. This is a very simple issue and has nothing to do with ignorance and everything to do with integrity.




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  17. @Shayne: I didn’t say creation is absurd. I said to teach it in a science class is absurd. And I didn’t say believing in it is ignorant. I said insisting it should be taught in a science class shows ignorance for what science is. Surely I disagree with your literal translation but I don’t think you are absurd or ignorant. I believe that people should be left alone to have their beliefs in peace. But, a science class only has room for science. And I don’t have to go to a state university to learn the theory of evolution. La Sierra does a great job of teaching it as they should.




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  18. Casey,
    You ought to grow up. I don’t see how Educate Truth can cause anybody to be fired. After all, it does not pay salaries and it is not a decision maker at all. Educate Truth has only been a commentator.

    If the university Chair said the issues with the bio dept are not the factors, then you should take up your beef with the chair and indeed ask him for the explanations. It is rather small of you to attack Hilde and his blog at a time like this.

    If at anytime in the future there is evidence (not speculation) to support your claim, THEN you may rant and rail. Yet, you apparently have no idea what it means to be faithful to the Bible and you either accept evolution as fact or saw no conflict with what the professors taught.

    If at all you consider yourself a Christian, I hope you recognise that faithfulness to Bible truths is more important than worldly honour and all will have to give an account for their actions later. I think Educate Truth has tried to be faithful to the Bible contrary to some professed Christians.




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    • @Jonathan: Like I said before, regardless of the reasons for the resignations, this site is wrong and petty. You can read my above comments as to why. This is a public thread so I can rant and rail all I want. I don’t have to wait till evidence supports any claim. I’m taking advantage of my freedoms so excuse me. Hilde can ban me or erase my messages if he really wants to. In addition, I never stated my stance as a Christian or not or my faithfulness to the Bible or not. So you are speculating as well. I clearly have a different view than most on this board so I expect the wave of comments against my favor. Which is fine. But why is it small for me to attack Hilde? He puts up a controversial website and expects no one to disagree? and now you are attacking me as well. You are being hypocritical. But I welcome your “attacks”. I’m not afraid of whatever you have to say. And I respect your belief in the literal translation of the Bible but it really leaves little for us to even argue…




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  19. just a quick reply, @SATBGIRL: but if a democrat begins to espouse what the GOP stands for, why be a democrat?

    I’m not too into analogies, because the issue at hand is deeper and wider than a political analogy can afford to compare, as well as my mind doesn’t do well in analogies. End reply.

    In any case, a previous comment on “weak faith” reminded me of one of new my favorite quotes from A. T. Jones,

    “Faith is expecting the Word of God to do what it says, and the depending upon
    that Word to do what it says.” (Lessons on Faith)

    Essential to faith, is humility – the humble belief that our human brains are just too puny to comprehend how truly great God is, and frankly, because we know God as He has revealed Himself, that we simply must accept His Word.

    Ironically, if anything, it would be unreasonable to doubt His Word.

    Enough with my blathering, but a short one that cuts to my point – “Skepticism and unbelief are not humility. Implicit belief in Christ’s word is true humility, true self-surrender.”

    God bless!




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  20. The reason for the firings has come out at Spectrum: the four were secretly taped having a conversation to the effect (according to one 4th hand report) that LSU would be better off separated from the SDA Church. Bradley was having an alcoholic beverage during this conversation.




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    • @David Read:

      So I assume the meeting was with a larger group where somebody else taped them in the group and reported the problem.

      In any case – we have seen some people here and at the big-left-tent arguing that LSU should leave the denomination (which you would think would be a problem for the actual SDA faculty, staff and students within the LSU family).

      As noted earlier – “a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.”

      You cannot expect leaders in the school with firm convictions opposed to our world view on life and our doctrinal view on God and origins to not behave at times in full accord with those firm convictions. (Even if they are now “civil” to SDA students in their class rooms that happen to believe in the actual SDA world view).

      in Christ,

      Bob




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  21. Casey: But, a science class only has room for science. And I don’t have to go to a state university to learn the theory of evolution. La Sierra does a great job of teaching it as they should.

    I agree fully that science class is for “science”. I would love it if the LSU admin would insist that the profs “stick to science” instead of proclaiming great myths and fictions about “birds coming from reptiles” or “animals coming from plants” or “eukaryote genomes acquiring new information in the form of new coding genes at the group-genome level”. As even one of their own atheist evolutionists complains about “stories” based on the fossil record about how one thing came from another – being “Stories easy enough to tell but they are not science because there is no way of putting the to the test”.

    Why spend so much time devoted to what even atheist evolutionists label “antiknowledge”??

    in Christ,

    Bob




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  22. Casey: @Jonathan: Like I said before, regardless of the reasons for the resignations, this site is wrong and petty. You can read my above comments as to why. This is a public thread so I can rant and rail all I want. I don’t have to wait till evidence supports any claim.

    I agree that Casey’s objections are to be expected whenever someone stands up and points out a problem with the evolution “agenda” that includes things like withdrawing from the SDA denomination.

    We should not be surprised by the POV that says that LSU is doing a wonderful job promoting blind-faith evolutionism and nobody should get in their way — coming from those who have been drinking the evolution-koolaide.

    They will see nothing wrong with Bradley being honest and up front about his real views whether he speaks to the press or to some other gathering of LSU leaders.

    And frankly I don’t think you can blame Bradley for speaking his mind when he is so clearly opposed to both the mission and message of the Seventh-day Adventist church. What else would you want?

    The solution was never “tell Bradley to pretend as if he was in favor of the SDA view on origins, or message or mission”. Those who promoted that idea of wolf in sheeps clothing were begging for dissappointment and ultimately disaster.

    in Christ,

    Bob




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  23. David Read: The reason for the firings has come out at Spectrum: the four were secretly taped having a conversation to the effect (according to one 4th hand report) that LSU would be better off separated from the SDA Church. Bradley was having an alcoholic beverage during this conversation.

    Ok — so the firings have everything to do with the evolution controversy at LSU – because they are directly related to the “solution chosen” for that controversy and the demonstrated fact that the wolf-in-better-sheeps-clothing solution is not working as they seem to have imagined that it would work.

    But it is working as would be expected if you look at the solution with a bit more objectivity.

    They are not trying to convince the wolf to be a sheep – only to act like one in a better “less objectionable” way.

    The solution is not better-behaved-wolves. I for one do not blame wolves for ‘being wolves’, but I would not ask them to lead sheep.

    in Christ,

    Bob




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  24. BobRyan: Ok — so the firings have everything to do with the evolution controversy at LSU – because they are directly related to the “solution chosen” for that controversy and the demonstrated fact that the wolf-in-better-sheeps-clothing solution is not working as they seem to have imagined that it would work.

    I don’t think we should assume that. It’s quite clear that this had nothing to do with the biology issue, and that Bradley happened to be one of the four is due more to his part he played. Someone posted an alleged email from him at Spectrum. I’ve been really surprised at how much is being leaked from LSU to Spectrum. It’s like they want everyone to know what is going on now:

    To: My treasured friends and colleagues
    From: Gary Bradley
    6-12-11

    On Friday, June 10, 2011, I signed a letter resigning from the faculty position that I have enjoyed for 39 years. Since such an action always precipitates much speculation and many rumors, I want you to know exactly what happened and why.

    Recently a secret tape of a private conversation among four friends was released and distributed widely in the SDA church hierarchy. A professional transcript of that tape was prepared, albeit with some mistakes in identifying the speaker. I participated in that conversation, was confronted therewith in the Friday meeting, and agreed with much, but not all, of what was ascribed to me. This conversation has already been mischaracterized and is being used in further attempts to discredit La Sierra University.
    I signed the resignation letter that had been prepared for me for two reasons. First, I believe that the best way for La Sierra University to come through this fiasco is for a “head to roll.” Second, I admitted to consuming a small glass of an alcoholic beverage during this conversation. On the first count, everything I have tried to do for the past 39 years has been to help La Sierra University to succeed. On the second count, I can only say mea culpa.

    Needless to say, I am devastated. I feel like my very soul has been ripped from my body. My entire life since I began teaching 46 years ago has been dedicated to Adventist education. I’m not ready to quit and I grieve the loss of the classroom where I have had such rewarding interactions with the wonderful people who are my students. I have many important projects underway here now and many other people will be inconvenienced by my sudden departure. I can only say that I am deeply sorry and will try my utmost to earn redemption.

    If you are among those who welcome this transition, I request that you celebrate with dignity. If you are among those who find this transition upsetting, I ask that you not turn it into a war. Please continue to do what you can to make La Sierra University the best and most progressive SDA university in the world.




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  25. According to the LSU faculty handbook it appears that drinking alcohol is forbidden while employed by the church:

    In addition to the requirements of the law, La Sierra University adopts the temperance practices and health principles espoused by the Seventh-day Adventist Church. This means that all faculty, employees and students are expected to refrain from the use of alcohol, drugs or tobacco while
    enrolled or employed at the University. (Faculty Handbook 33)

    Violating this agreement can result in the following:

    The unlawful manufacture, distribution, dispensing, possession or use of a controlled substance or the use of alcohol or tobacco is grounds for a full range of discipline up to and including dismissal from employment or school under the policy of termination of a faculty member, the policy for termination of other employees, or student disciplinary policy. Any educational treatment alternative to discipline shall be at the sole discretion of the University. (Ibid 36)




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  26. I stand in support of Educate Truth and its efforts to maintain integrity on an SDA campus of higher education. “Once to every man and nation (university) comes the moment to decide, in the strife of truth and falsehood, for the good or evil side.” Our church history shows that we have had to watch church institutions (Battle Creek San and Hospital) leave the sisterhood of institutions due to false teachings by its leadership. We should not be surprised if the cost of fidelity to truth has a price. Politically, we know that freedom has a price. Spiritually, fidelity to truth has a price.

    I regret that Shane is coming under attack for having the courage to keep the light burning for doctrinal truth in Adventist education. We have long purported the idea of integration of faith and learning. Why would we want to excuse a science department who moves away from the “faith” aspect of its discipline?




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  27. BobRyan: Ok — so the firings have everything to do with the evolution controversy at LSU – because they are directly related to the “solution chosen” for that controversy and the demonstrated fact that the wolf-in-better-sheeps-clothing solution is not working as they seem to have imagined that it would work.

    Shane Hilde:
    I don’t think we should assume that. It’s quite clear that this had nothing to do with the biology issue, and that Bradley happened to be one of the four is due more to his part he played

    Shane – in my post above I argue that Bradley is merely being himself when he suggests that LSU should consider leaving the SDA fold of oversight. Suppose for a moment that Bradley were fully in favor of the SDA doctrine on origins – and promoted it in his classroom. In that case – do you really think he would then argue against staying with the SDA organization?

    This is clearly a case of the root of the problem showing itself – for a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still. The solution they chose was simply “behavior modification” for the wolves. They did not choose to insist on actual creationists, therefore they ended up with disgruntled wolves who are looking for a more “progressive” solution than merely “pretending” to have no interest in promoting firm belief in evolution.

    Consider the alternative to the facts above – Do you think he was open to the idea of LSU leaving the SDA church “just because he wants to have the freedom to drink a small glass of alchohol”?

    For that matter – do you really think that Bradley would even think to drink in the presence of his peers from LSU if he was convinced that his peers never drink or that LSU is known for a consistent strong stand against drinking “in practice”?

    (BTW I am fully opposed to alcohol and consider it the sin of drug abuse – but I doubt that the LSU culture is really as firm on that point as I am and I am sure Bradley is aware of that.)

    This is not an issue about Bradley crusading for alcohol and suggesting that LSU leave the SDA fold if a more progressive stand on drinking is not adopted. Drinking was not the issue it was the convenient side issue. It is a technicality. It is like getting someone on tax evasion when your real interest in them is for some other deed for which you do not have the means or political avenue to address fully.

    in Christ,

    Bob




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  28. I think what happened to these men was much more than alcohol. There must be something on the recording that coupled with the alcohol caused great enough concern to ask for the resignation of all four men.




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  29. David Read: The reason for the firings has come out at Spectrum: the four were secretly taped having a conversation to the effect (according to one 4th hand report) that LSU would be better off separated from the SDA Church. Bradley was having an alcoholic beverage during this conversation.

    Says it all.




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  30. According to Diana K., a commenter over at Spectrum, Bradley wrote her the following in an email:

    If you were to post it I don’t think a lot would be lost since I have distributed it fairly widely on campus.

    My only concern is that many read “secret recording” as diabolical whereas this was an accidental recording and distribution by one of the conversants. Thus it was more “Three Stooges” than “James Bond”.

    If you would add this explanation then posting would be no problem.

    So one of the four records the whole the incident and then passes it around? What on earth was this guy thinking. This was an accidental recording according to Bradley, but the real question is why it was accidentally recorded and then passed around.




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  31. David Read: The reason for the firings has come out at Spectrum: the four were secretly taped having a conversation to the effect (according to one 4th hand report) that LSU would be better off separated from the SDA Church. Bradley was having an alcoholic beverage during this conversation.

    Dave, Since when is advocating “separation” from the ideas of the SDA Church and “boozing it up” a reason for firing someone from the SDA Church?!




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  32. Shane Hilde: So one of the four records the whole the incident and then passes it around? What on earth was this guy thinking. This was an accidental recording according to Bradley, but the real question is why it was accidentally recorded and then passed around.

    The apparent answer to your real question: by accident.

    Shane Hilde: According to Diana K., a commenter over at Spectrum, Bradley wrote her the following in an email:So one of the four records the whole the incident and then passes it around? What on earth was this guy thinking. This was an accidental recording according to Bradley, but the real question is why it was accidentally recorded and then passed around.




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  33. It looks like Bradley has admitted to, over on Spectrum, drinking alcohol and being a part of a conversation, part of which was to discuss whether to have LSU become independent of SDA control?

    So, he’s for “evolution as fact” wants to consume alcohol, and wants LSU to at least “consider” freeing itself from SDA control.

    Are those the reasons HE was fired?




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  34. So, these 4 got together and were discussing whether LSU should “secede” from SDA control?

    If so, given the positions these guys were in, it sounds like a great idea they were “fired.”




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  35. I don’t believe the Educate Truth administration truly wants to see LSU leave the Church’s control.

    There are, however, some supporters of ET who want LSU to leave the SDA fold. Are these folks pleased with or critical of an LSU employee who takes a similar position?

    I’ll make my position transparent: the SDA Church greatly benefits from LSU (which is NOT all-out-for-evolutionism), and there are many non-SDAs who would not learn about our distinct beliefs and culture if LSU was not SDA. I want LSU to represent the very best of Adventism.

    Rather than throwing proverbial sticks and stones at an institution and assorted individuals, why don’t we pray earnestly for LSU, those who are making decisions about the institution, those affected by the decisions, and especially those with whom we disagree.




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  36. As Shane has shown over on Spectrum, consumption of alcohol is prohibited for faculty. The penalties include firing.

    What about “mutiny?!” Is that on the list?




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  37. Penalties under federal law for recording conversation without consent
    by Lewis Gainor on November 23, 2010

    Secretly recording a conversation can constitute a criminal offense under federal law. Under Title 18, Section 2511 of the United States Code, it is a felony to record a conversation unless at least one party to the conversation consents. The crime is called eavesdropping, and a person found guilty can be sentenced to 5 years in prison and fined $250,000.

    The statute reaches beyond conversations. It is against the law to use any device to intercept wire, oral, or electronic communications, as well. For example, recording a phone conversation or copying computer data such as email is eavesdropping, and subject to criminal penalties.

    18 USC 2511 applies to face-to-face conversations, telephone conversations (including cell phones), email, instant messaging, text messages, phone records, voicemail, data saved on a server, and any other electronic communication.




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  38. David Bee: Isn’t the recordimg of a private coversation without documented permissin a felony under federal law?

    So, who’s gonna sue? And, who are they gonna sue? If it goes to a trial, more information will be forthcoming about how, when, where, and maybe why the conversation happened.

    Maybe those involved won’t want to “sue” anybody?




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  39. This is not an issue about Bradley crusading for alcohol and suggesting that LSU leave the SDA fold if a more progressive stand on drinking is not adopted. Drinking was not the issue it was the convenient side issue. It is a technicality. Bob

    You’re probably right, Bob. However, this would be an ironic ending to Bradley, if it were true. Getting a guy canned because of a “light” Brewskie or “small” tonic and gin instead of the actual issue he’s being accused of would indeed be a major accomplishment, similar to Capone’s conviction for “tax evasion” or OJ getting convicted for what he did in Las Vegas to try to get his “stuff” back!




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  40. Professor Kent: Your characterization of an entire department (and in prior posts an entire university) as “sacrifice-all-for-evolutionism” because of the views of a few individuals is nothing more than propaganda.

    True.




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  41. David Bee: A federal judge would likely intervene if firing wasbased on a feloniously obtain recording.

    So. let’s see if any “federal judge” intervenes and if anyone is arrested, prosecuted, and convicted. My guess is a big NO! But, I’m not a lawyer.




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  42. New story up at Spectrum says that one of the four recorded a meeting with his cell phone, then left the recorder running at a private after-meeting at someone’s house where alcohol was served. The conversation included foul language, derogatory comments, and jokes about drinking.




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  43. If the church could come to agreement on what is Bible truth this controversy could go away. If they had not removed the introductory statements about the doctrine of inspiration to the first edition of Great Controversy (available on the White estate website) we would still be able to study the Bible using the historical and literary tools I was given as a ministerial student at AU in 1957. Maybe if we had elected a GC president with actual training in Biblical studies it would have helped.

    Until we can let our prophet speak to her age and her message grow along with the evidence as she hoped we are doomed to the fundametalism of Aimie Semple McPherson.

    No religion faculty (my major field) member that I knew in 1961 believed in either a literal creation week or a <10,000 year old earth. What a pity that Robert Pierson (a fine Godly man) was so afraid of scholarly research.

    Incidentally those of you who would like to read deeply spiritual commentaries on evolution as the finest and truest expressin of God's loving nature, try Profesor John Haught's writings.




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  44. @Shane Hilde:

    Here is a summary of the law

    California Wiretapping Law
    California’s wiretapping law is a “two-party consent” law. California makes it a crime to record or eavesdrop on any confidential communication, including a private conversation or telephone call, without the consent of all parties to the conversation. See Cal. Penal Code § 632. The statute applies to “confidential communications” — i.e., conversations in which one of the parties has an objectively reasonable expectation that no one is listening in or overhearing the conversation. See Flanagan v. Flanagan, 41 P.3d 575, 576-77, 578-82 (Cal. 2002). A California appellate court has ruled that this statute applies to the use of hidden video cameras to record conversations as well. See California v. Gibbons, 215 Cal. App. 3d 1204 (Cal Ct. App. 1989).




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  45. Shayne Vincent: If you want to believe in evolution, then go to a State university. This is a very simple issue and has nothing to do with ignorance and everything to do with integrity.

    I’m not sure what “believing” in evolution has to do with this. It is important for biology students to know the particulars of evolutionary theory in their own field. Whether they believe in it or not, is another matter altogether.




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  46. David Bee: @Ron Stone M.D.: Will be intersting to see who the district attorney interviews. CA law is quite strict and its’ employment lawyers are talented.

    I agree. But who is going to sue whom, and for what? Are the disgraced ex-employees going to go after each other, LSU, Pacific Union Conference,GC?

    I still say nothing will actually be done legally to solve this alleged crime.




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  47. David Read: New story up at Spectrum says that one of the four recorded a meeting with his cell phone, then left the recorder running at a private after-meeting at someone’s house where alcohol was served. The conversation included foul language, derogatory comments, and jokes about drinking.

    Does anyone actually have the recording? Where can we get a copy?

    You know it’s got to be very embarrassing, otherwise they would not have “resigned” but would have fought these charges.




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  48. Shane Hilde: All this legal talk etc. is a bunch of hot air. I will be extremely surprised if anything legal comes of this.

    I agree with you Shane. Lots of hot air and no real substance. My bet is nothing is actually done and nobody goes to the “big house.”




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  49. Probably sue for inappropriate termination of employment? It seemed that Bradley might have been heading that direction in his email.




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  50. BTW, Ervin Taylor at AToday is reporting that they have a copy of the recording and are having it transcribed. but he’s indicating that they will report on what the church officials said, not on what the resigning staff and board member said.




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  51. No religion faculty (my major field) member that I knew in 1961 believed in either a literal creation week or a <10,000 year old earth.

    So, where did you graduate from? Who were these guys and gals? Care to name some and where they are from or where they are now?

    I started attending the SDA Church is 1960. From that time until now, virtually all the members and clergy have seemed to promote a “literal” creation story.

    How about others?




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  52. David Read: BTW, Ervin Taylor at AToday is reporting that they have a copy of the recording and are having it transcribed. but he’s indicating that they will report on what the church officials said, not on what the resigning staff and board member said.

    Is Erv willing to negotiate? I’ve been saving up my pennies.




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  53. Marilyn Bauer:
    I stand in support of Educate Truth and its efforts to maintain integrity on an SDA campus of higher education. “Once to every man and nation (university) comes the moment to decide, in the strife of truth and falsehood, for the good or evil side.”Our church history shows that we have had to watch church institutions (Battle Creek San and Hospital) leave the sisterhood of institutions due to false teachings by its leadership. We should not be surprised if the cost of fidelity to truth has a price. Politically, we know that freedom has a price. Spiritually, fidelity to truth has a price.

    I regret that Shane is coming under attack for having the courage to keep the light burning for doctrinal truth in Adventist education. We have long purported the idea of integration of faith and learning. Why would we want to excuse a science department who moves away from the “faith” aspect of its discipline?

    All those who decide to live a Biblically faithful life shall suffer persecution.




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  54. I have now listened to the tape and I was absolutely stunned. The conversation was, on the whole, remarkably benign; I can’t figure out how the men were manipulated to resign.

    The SPECTRUM article summarized the conversation accurately: there were a few scatological terms, I picked up one very general reference to wine (perhaps I missed something), and there was a faint smattering of derogatory comments about specific individuals (mostly directed toward one Church official). I didn’t hear any talk of moving LSU away from the SDA Church. Virtually all of the conversation dealt with the preceding Blackmer-Jackson meeting with LSU faculty and the heavy-handed measures the Church has taken toward LSU in light of the evolution controversy (measures which some folks here continue to deny have been taken, which in turn prompts unending ad hominen attacks on individual LSU and Church administrators).

    I socialize with many SDAs, non-SDA Christians, and non-Christians, and I have to say the conversation closely resembled a very normal conversation among very ordinary (albeit frustrated) SDAs. The vulgar language I hear so much of from my non-Christian friends and colleagues was almost completely lacking from this particular conversation. In all fairness to this foursome, someone needs to make this clear.

    There is no question in my mind that the requested resignations had everything to do with the creation-evolution controversy stirred up by Educate Truth. I was hoping otherwise, but no one listening to the conversation is likely to conclude any differently. If these men do not take legal action against their employer and/or the Union for being forced to resign with the threat of releasing the recording of a private conversation against their will, I suspect it would only be in a good will effort to stem the war that has spun completely out of control (thank you, Educate Truth).

    This war needs to stop. Both sides need to end the rhetoric and let things settle down. This is a victory only for Satan’s cause.




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  55. Casey:
    That’s garbage and you know it Shane. Although I don’t expect someone with your lack of integrity to admit it. I know for a fact that there is NO reason to fire Gary Bradley other than his support of science being attacked by ignorant people like you who made waves in the church and at LSU. They are willing to lose their WASC accreditation before they lose their SDA accreditation so they responded to the likes of you and your cult. PERIOD.

    Please realize that it is entirely impossible for you to “know for a fact” that there is no other reason, unless you have direct evidence demonstrating what the reason actually is.

    If you do have such evidence, please present it to us, or explain why you can’t.

    If you do not have or have not seen such evidence, then your choice to believe that there could not possibly be any other reason is illogical.

    We must be careful not to let our emotions drive our analysis of situations, circumstances, and personalities.




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  56. Kevin: If you do have such evidence, please present it to us, or explain why you can’t.

    I have listened to the “evidence” so I am presenting it to you right now. The most objectionable material in the recording was some negative comments about certain individuals–but these were no more malicious than many of the comments posted here by Educate Truth supporters.

    If it’s okay for the defenders of conservative Adventism to make negative comments about others here, in a very public format, then why should employees be fired for doing so in the privacy of their own home.

    Hypocrisy. Hypocrisy. Hypocrisy. Hypocrisy. Hypocrisy. Hypocrisy.




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  57. Professor Kent: I have listened to the “evidence” so I am presenting it to you right now. The most objectionable material in the recording was some negative comments about certain individuals–but these were no more malicious than many of the comments posted here by Educate Truth supporters. If it’s okay for the defenders of conservative Adventism to make negative comments about others here, in a very public format, then why should employees be fired for doing so in the privacy of their own home.Hypocrisy. Hypocrisy. Hypocrisy. Hypocrisy. Hypocrisy. Hypocrisy.

    How about all of us listening to it and forming our own opinion bad it is?

    If it’s not so bad, why not? Hypocrisy, hypocrisy, hypocrisy!




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  58. Lou Westphal M.D.: Probably sue for inappropriate termination of employment? It seemed that Bradley might have been heading that direction in his email.

    How “inappropriate” is resigning? Isn’t that what he did, or am I missing something? He admitted he resigned in his letter.




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  59. Please try to apply logic to this, rather than emotion.

    First, Professor Kent quoted me out of context. I was asking for evidence which allowed Casey to “know for a fact” (as claimed) that the biology conflict is the root cause of the resignations, in spite of the school’s own statements.

    Let’s remember that the source of the so-called “reason” or “evidence” for resignation is the one resigning, as LSU itself is not at liberty to divulge the information.

    Everyone who is claiming that the evolution/creation controversy is actually the reason, is taking the word of an individual who signed his own resignation letter, over the words of the leadership of the institution.

    This logically means that those making such claims are presuming the statements made by the institution are lies.

    Furthermore, if the board were actually acting surreptitiously toward an underlying purpose somehow in-line with the efforts to remove supporters of teaching evolution from the university, it would not be logical for them to claim otherwise after these particular resignations.

    Why? Because some of these individuals are apparently not involved in the controversy, and the ones who could be considered “primary targets” are still employed.

    The most presumption that can be logically made is that the individual resigning is less likely to be a reliable source of the real reason.

    Finally, it is interesting to note that one commentator here who seems to be supporting the resigned professor has referred to individuals who believe creation as “ignorant people”.

    ———–

    There is a constant stream of unfounded attacks on the belief in literal creation and it’s scientific accuracy, stating it cannot belong in any scientific discussion.

    Would those of you who support this view please explain away all or perhaps some of what Professor Walter J. Veith (PhD, biologist, physiologist, scientist) teaches in support of literal creation and against evolution?

    If you don’t want to watch, listen to or read Professor Veith’s presentations, or if you presume in advance that he can’t be right because you already know what’s right, then you are intentionally choosing a decidedly unscientific mindset (science is the examination of all available evidence), and are essentially burying your heads in the sand.




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  60. It seems there is some legal recourse called “constructive discharge” in which an employee, forced to resign by suspect circumstances, can still file a wrongful termination suit.




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  61. Shane Hilde: @David Bee: Except it wasn’t a felony. It was released by the person who recorded it. So if anyone should get in trouble legally it would be the guy who recorded.

    People – this is an act of God in having this behind-closed doors unveiling of the true issues at LSU come to light in the way that it did such that the wolves only have themselves to blame in what even Bradley calls a “three stooges” scenario.

    Those who suggest that CA is prone to “file law suit no matter your culpability” may be right about the culture out there – but the facts being what they are… this whole thing is amazing!

    in Christ,

    Bob




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  62. Casey: This is total GARBAGE! LSU is on it’s way to being an unaccredited bible school. It’s very sad because I love LSU. And it’s obvious that this IS because of the evolution controversy. I don’t care what anyone says. Shame on you Shane Hilde and everyone else at “educate truth” for being so shallow and unloving towards your fellow human beings. You are completely wrong in what you are doing beyond what you can understand. You’re so threatened by the theory of evolution and your faith is so weak that you are willing to get people fired from jobs they love just because evolution makes YOU feel uncomfortable. I hope you someday feel guilt and regret this terrible deed you have done.

    What a total distortion!!

    No Church administrator has said “we need to find a solution that Shane will like”.

    no Church adminsitrator has said “we will take action here so that whatever preferences Shane Hilde has are fully met”.

    No one has claimed that Shane is the source of massive gift or grant funds to LSU.

    The ONLY impact Educate Truth has is the extent to which REAL issues are revealed and then OTHERS decide if they really like what is going on at LSU (as you apparently do) or if they want to bury their head in the sand for more decades of this circus, or if they are ready to take a stand and actually do something about it.

    In your post you make it appear that Shane is the doctrinal authority of the SDA church. Hint – Shane was not at the GC 2010 session that voted the more explicit versioning of FB#6 – the entire world church was through its representatives!

    Why is it so hard for a tiny few to see this glaringly obvious point by now??

    You admit that LSU all-for-evolution program in their biology and religion departments is opposed to SDA doctrine – but then you want to “blame Shane” for letting that news out?

    Or did you just want to blame him for having an opinion that differs?

    in Christ,

    Bob




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  63. Professor Kent: I have listened to the “evidence” so I am presenting it to you right now. The most objectionable material in the recording was some negative comments about certain individuals–…Hypocrisy.

    Insightful as usual Kent.

    Thanks for sharing that with us “right now”.

    Obivously the Inside Higher Education article did a more “complete” job of explaining the problem to the world. You on the other hand – are predictably devoted to “spin doctoring”.

    At some point Kent – it pays to throw away the shovel. This case where they voluntarily shot themselves in the foot even by their own admission is an act of God in leaving the Church “without excuse” if they should choose to delude themselves about the far reaching level of the problem at LSU.

    in Christ,

    Bob




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  64. Kevin: Furthermore, if the board were actually acting surreptitiously toward an underlying purpose somehow in-line with the efforts to remove supporters of teaching evolution from the university, it would not be logical for them to claim otherwise after these particular resignations.
    Why? Because some of these individuals are apparently not involved in the controversy, and the ones who could be considered “primary targets” are still employed.

    Based on the context for the recording (a prior meeting about evolution-creation controversy at LSU held with Dan Jackson and Blackmer) there is no question that this recording included segments on the pro-evolution agenda at LSU and their views of the supposedly wrong-headed thinking of the SDA church in not changing FB#6 to save Genesis 1 in the light of “evolution as fact”.

    It is obvious that LSU does not present a case where 4 or 5 professors are acting without support of the Admin (and the support of more than a few of their peers).

    No one (but Kent) has claimed that all of LSU is on board with evolution. Yet even so we cannot indulge in the fantasy that only those people actively pushing this with the students in science and religion classes, are acting behind the scenes to promote evolution at LSU.

    That infrastructure of support from faculty and Admin at LSU would eventually have to be addressed if the SDA denomination had any hope of fixing the problem in harmony with the AAA decision. (No doubt the four guys in that meeting figured that out for themselves since they represented both groups and could see the problem clearly.)

    in Christ,

    Bob




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  65. Professor Kent: I socialize with many SDAs, non-SDA Christians, and non-Christians, and I have to say the conversation closely resembled a very normal conversation among very ordinary (albeit frustrated) SDAs.

    That statement says a lot about Prof Kent.

    I can’t believe he said that out loud given that even Inside Higher Ed admits to the vulgar content on the tape (in the context of supposedly Christian college).

    Astounding!

    in Christ,

    Bob




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  66. An interesting addition to the note above –

    Mark Bruno: I see that they were told that if they did not resign, their comments would be shared with the board. What’s so bad about that? If these comments were actually harmless and trivial, why would they care if the board heard them. I suspect that the comments were probably quite damaging and perhaps actionable. It was their choice to resign. In the end, they have reaped what they have sown.

    in Christ,

    Bob




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  67. BobRyan: People – this is an act of God in having this behind-closed doors unveiling of the true issues at LSU come to light in the way that it did such that the wolves only have themselves to blame in what even Bradley calls a “three stooges” scenario.Those who suggest that CA is prone to “file law suit no matter your culpability” may be right about the culture out there – but the facts being what they are… this whole thing is amazing!in Christ,Bob

    I agree Bob. Those whom I have spoken with so far, regarding this specific detail, all agree that this may be “Divine Intervention” in an ironic way.

    Those at LSU will of course deny this, but looking at the scenario, it’s hard to not see it. When Man fails to act, sometimes God does, in a way in which we just have to be amazed!

    God IS great, even though we, as humans, all of us included, fail to live up to His standards.




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  68. Lou Westphal M.D.: It seems there is some legal recourse called “constructive discharge” in which an employee, forced to resign by suspect circumstances, can still file a wrongful termination suit.

    I’m sure you’re right, Lou. I wasn’t actually being disagreeable, as I usually am, but simply stating that he was not officially “fired” but did “resign.”

    Probably some way anybody can sue his ex-empoyer, no matter how one is terminated!




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  69. BobRyan: No one (but Kent) has claimed that all of LSU is on board with evolution.

    Lets get facts straight. Bob Ryan once wrote

    In this board action LSU has found “air cover” for continuing down their present course — awaiting for a “proposed committee” to gain time resources funding and authority “by somebody else” – before they would ever to cease and desist their “sacrifice all for evolutionism” policy in place today.

    Where has Professor Kent accused the university of a sacrifice all for evolutionism policy?




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  70. Professor Kent: The most objectionable material in the recording was some negative comments about certain individuals–but these were no more malicious than many of the comments posted here by Educate Truth supporters.

    If professor kent is correct (I cannot know with certainty) then it seems to me the conversation was used as a threat to force the resignations and, the alcohol rather than the conversation provided the substance for the firings. This is consistent with what Spectrum is reporting.

    I also read this from someone at Spectrum:

    Jesus drank wine, said a few things that offended others, and certainly criticised administrators. He was not even a vegetarian! But was never asked to “resign”…

    Someone then responded to this by pointing out that Jesus was killed instead of being asked to resign.




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  71. Judging by the reaction of the four to the recording being made public to the board, I think it’s safe to assume that what was on the recording was more incriminating than the alcohol.




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  72. Shane Hilde: Judging by the reaction of the four to the recording being made public to the board, I think it’s safe to assume that what was on the recording was more incriminating than the alcohol.

    I agree. If only Bradley “had a few” why would the others resign. Wasn’t it at Bradley’s home where they watched the game?

    Or was it at someone else’s house, and Bradley just brought a “fifth” to share?




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  73. BobRyan: Obivously the Inside Higher Education article did a more “complete” job of explaining the problem to the world. You on the other hand – are predictably devoted to “spin doctoring”.

    Neither Inside Higher Education nor you listened to the conversation. I did. I’m speaking from facts that formed my personal opinion, and you accuse me of “spin doctoring.” So what is the basis of your “spin?”




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  74. Greg W: If professor kent is correct (I cannot know with certainty) then it seems to me the conversation was used as a threat to force the resignations and, the alcohol rather than the conversation provided the substance for the firings. This is consistent with what Spectrum is reporting.

    I listened to the conversation, and Greg’s interpretation is EXACTLY my take on the matter.

    My hearing is not what it used to be, and the conversation was difficult to follow at times, but I did not hear anything that struck me as a “smoking gun” to justify either a firing or a resignation. I have the humility to concede that I might have missed something, whereas others here have the assuredness that they know that which they have not heard for themselves.

    In my personal opinion, the negative comments made toward other individuals were no worse, on the whole, than those made routinely here by Bob Ryan and Ron Stone. The former foursome made their comments in private, whereas the latter twosome make their comments in public.

    And let’s make one more thing clear: I didn’t hear anything remotely resembling drunkeness. I have never been drunk in my life, but I have been around it enough to recognize it.




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  75. While we are on the subject of someone doing the right thing. Larry Blackmer comes out like a shining hero in this event. That guy has risen to new heights in my estimation. The “bad guys” in this case are furious with him for his strong stand in favor of the church, our doctrines and the correct mission of SDA schools.

    Larry is the man!

    Larry’s chief crime according to these guys is that he insists that the SDA mission is NOT to be “the best public university that SDA tithe, offering, gift and tuition dollars can buy”!

    Larry said that we are not out to just be “a better Harvard” or to just preach a basic minimalist Gospel like some non-SDA colleges. Rather our schools exist to teach the distinctive message of the Seventh-day Adventist Church!

    That guy is right on the mark.

    I wish that Dan Jackson could have fared half so well in those discussions. (Actually the incident raises some questions about just what Jackon’s agenda really is).

    in Christ,

    Bo




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  76. BobRyan: Obivously the Inside Higher Education article did a more “complete” job of explaining the problem to the world. You on the other hand – are predictably devoted to “spin doctoring”.

    Professor Kent:

    Neither Inside Higher Education nor you listened to the conversation. I did. I’m speaking from facts that formed my personal opinion, and you accuse me of “spin doctoring.” So what is the basis of your “spin?”

    I am always facinated by the things you think I do not know or have not done.

    Do you really enjoy just making stuff up to that extent? On what basis are you making such wild claims?

    in Christ,

    Bob




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  77. BobRyan: While we are on the subject of someone doing the right thing. Larry Blackmer comes out like a shining hero in this event. That guy has risen to new heights in my estimation. The “bad guys” in this case are furious with him for his strong stand in favor of the church, our doctrines and the correct mission of SDA schools.Larry is the man!Larry’s chief crime according to these guys is that he insists that the SDA mission is NOT to be “the best public university that SDA tithe, offering, gift and tuition dollars can buy”!Larry said that we are not out to just be “a better Harvard” or to just preach a basic minimalist Gospel like some non-SDA colleges. Rather our schools exist to teach the distinctive message of the Seventh-day Adventist Church!That guy is right on the mark.I wish that Dan Jackson could have fared half so well in those discussions. (Actually the incident raises some questions about just what Jackon’s agenda really is).in Christ,Bo

    Bob, Graham comes out pretty great, too. He has been virtually absent from any real control over LSU, but gets to be the “hero” by firing these guys (some of which may be “fall guys’).

    I also agree about Jackson. He doesn’t impress much at all,so far.




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  78. This commentary posted at Spectrum reflects the Christianity and Spirit of Christ that motivates me:

    Patti Cottrell Grant – Wed, 06/15/2011 – 09:44

    Once again it appears that vengeful and short-sighted GC leadership has carelessly squandered a priceless opportunity to present to the world a true picture of how God deals lovingly with his all-too-human children. Instead of offering these men the opportunity for forgiveness and redemption they were blindsided and backed into a corner and threatened with shame if they did not resign immediately. No chance to repent, no chance to learn from this Kafkaesque play, no chance to salvage decades of sacrificial service lovingly given to the gospel of Christ. Just Wham! Off With Their Heads! Is this what Jesus would do?

    What incalculable damage has been done to the Gospel of Christ. Not by the four friends who were inadvertently recorded and exposed against their will but by men in positions of power who chose to execute those dedicated servants with the harshest, most draconian punishment available.

    What possible glimpse of the Savior does this slap down present to the world?” Where is the invitation to others to seek forgiveness and redemption, and inclusion in the family of God? The summary execution of these men has done incalculable damage to a church that ironically claims to be chosen of God but that offered no opportunity whatsoever for change and growth.

    It is time for truly courageous GC leadership–there must be some somewhere–to begin to repair the very public damage to the world church that it has wrought. Work with these men, extend to them the forgiveness and opportunity for redemption that God has promised each of us, and allow them to go back to the work they love. It is never too late to do the Right Thing.

    Patti Cottrell Grant




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  79. This commentary posted at Spectrum reflects the Christianity and Spirit of Christ that motivates me:

    Patti Cottrell Grant – Wed, 06/15/2011 – 09:44

    Once again it appears that vengeful and short-sighted GC leadership has carelessly squandered a priceless opportunity to present to the world a true picture of how God deals lovingly with his all-too-human children. Instead of offering these men the opportunity for forgiveness and redemption they were blindsided and backed into a corner and threatened with shame if they did not resign immediately. No chance to repent, no chance to learn from this Kafkaesque play, no chance to salvage decades of sacrificial service lovingly given to the gospel of Christ. Just Wham! Off With Their Heads! Is this what Jesus would do?

    What incalculable damage has been done to the Gospel of Christ. Not by the four friends who were inadvertently recorded and exposed against their will but by men in positions of power who chose to execute those dedicated servants with the harshest, most draconian punishment available.

    What possible glimpse of the Savior does this slap down present to the world?” Where is the invitation to others to seek forgiveness and redemption, and inclusion in the family of God? The summary execution of these men has done incalculable damage to a church that ironically claims to be chosen of God but that offered no opportunity whatsoever for change and growth.

    It is time for truly courageous GC leadership–there must be some somewhere–to begin to repair the very public damage to the world church that it has wrought. Work with these men, extend to them the forgiveness and opportunity for redemption that God has promised each of us, and allow them to go back to the work they love. It is never too late to do the Right Thing.

    Patti Cottrell Grant




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  80. @Jeff: It’s job! The sanctimonious tone I hear from most at Spectrum is unnecessary. All of us can point at others who have been un-Christian, but the reality is these men broke their contract and said some things they shouldn’t have.

    It’s terrible thing to lose one’s job, especially these days, but these men were clearly undermining the church’s beliefs and probably more if the recording sees the light of day.

    Alcohol is a big deal. Most who think its trivial that they were fired over it obviously don’t have a problem with drinking alcohol.




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