Richard Sherwin: we don’t really care about the “proofs” of …

Comment on Perspectives from alleged LSU students by Ron.

Richard Sherwin: we don’t really care about the “proofs” of evolution, or “proofs” of Creation for that matt

Richard, I guess this says it all. As long as you don’t care what the truth is, then we really have no foundation for a discussion.

Unfortunately, our science teachers don’t have the luxury of not caring.

Ron Also Commented

Perspectives from alleged LSU students

Richard Sherwin: Truth is the word of God, not science

Well, there you have it again. We are talking about a Science class. Unfortunately, if in is not science, then the science teacher doesn’t have the luxury of teaching it.
Until you can get scientific evidence that God created in 6 days, you can’t teach that in a science class because it isn’t science.

Yes, all truth matters, even scientific truth.


Perspectives from alleged LSU students

Rich Constantinescu: Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. John 17:17

Rich, God’s word is not the issue here. The problem is an inadequate understanding of God’s word.


Perspectives from alleged LSU students
Here is an interesting quote copied from “The Seven Faces of Adventism”.
Notice that the prophesy is about the “conservatives”, and notice what it says they will be doing to the “progressives, or liberals”. Could this web site be a fulfilment of this prophesy?

The work which the church has failed to do in a time of peace and prosperity she will have to do in a terrible crisis under most discouraging, forbidding circumstances. The warnings that worldly conformity has silenced or withheld must be given under the fiercest opposition from enemies of the faith. And at that time the {superficial, conservative class}, {whose influence has steadily retarded the progress of the work}, will renounce the faith and take their stand with its avowed enemies, toward whom their sympathies have long been tending. These apostates will then manifest the most bitter enmity, {doing all in their power to oppress and malign their former brethren and to excite indignation against them.} This day is just before us. The members of the church will individually be tested and proved. They will be placed in circumstances where they will be forced to bear witness for the truth. Many will be called to speak before councils and in courts of justice, perhaps separately and alone. The experience which would have helped them in this emergency they have neglected to obtain, and their souls are burdened with remorse for wasted opportunities and neglected privileges. Testimonies For the Church, Vol. 5, 463.


Recent Comments by Ron

LSU responds to Michigan Conference
@Sean Pitman:

Sean,
1. If you are really worried about it, send your son to another school.
2. Would you have us give up the right to be seekers for truth and our dependence on the word of God in favor of orthodoxy and a man made creed?
3. For Freedom, Christ has set you free. Part if that freedom is academic freedom, to explore ideas to see where they lead, even if in the end they turn out to be wrong.
4. Part of that freedom is to have honest doubts and to be able live with them knowing that God loves us so much, that he gave up his son so that we would have to privilege of knowing right from wrong. To not respect the right of people to be wrong is to disrespect Christ’s sacrifice and to be a false wittness to the character of God.


LSU responds to Michigan Conference
Dr. Wisbey,
Hang in there, there are still a lot of us who support La Sierra. Now is the time to stand for the truth though the heavens fall. Now is the time to stand up for freedom of conscience within the Adventist church.

Many of us have not forgotten the horrible price paid, in the struggle against authoritaianism and tyranny, by those who first taught us Righteousness by Faith. I am sorry this attack is coming on your watch. I would not want to be in your shoes for anything, but I am praying for you and I am happy to send money to help replace any funds lost through lack of support from the church. When will Christian’s learn to one thing Christ came to teach, God’s love and mercy?


Dr. Geraty clarifies his “Challenge” to literal 6-day creationism

I think this quote from Ellen White makes it clear that all things were created in 6 days that humans can observe or see:

See, this is where the 6th fundamental belief goes wrong. It doesn’t stick with the Bible, but imposes on the Bible an interpretation that comes from Mrs. White.

We need to do away with ALL the “fundamental beliefs”, and go back to the Bible. The minute the Adventist church abandoned the Bible as the only rule of faith, we ran afoul of the curse in Revelation against adding to God’s word.


The hinge of our faith
PS.
13. You can’t believe in “The Bible and the Bible only”, then quote Mrs. White or any other source.


The hinge of our faith
Bob,
We are getting sidetraked, and there is too much here to respond to every point. Let me try to summarize a few points.

1. From my perspective the real issue is, “What role does coersion play in helping or hindering the discovery of truth.” In my opinion, exploring the issue freely, even looking at and issue from the perspective of an “infadel” can only enhance the cause of truth. Truth is Truth and can never be compromised by our belief or lack of belief. Coersion of belief or consciousness is morally wrong, especially in the Adventist church which is founded on Christ, the Present Truth.

2. Everything following is practically irrelevant.

3. My definition of evolution: Any change in the genome that is beneficial to the organism is evolution. There is no functional difference between micro and macro evolution, it is only a matter of the quantinty of changes. The nylonase gene came into being in the last 75 years, I believe that God the eternal creator created it and I see it as an example of evolution, you seem to believe that God stopped creating and that it isn’t an example of evolution. I believe that God created nylonase, you believe he didn’t. Which of us believes in God as the Creator? I don’t think it is truely possible to believe in God as the creator and not believe in evolution.

4. I have no problem with anything you have quoted from Mrs. White. In my opinion you are reading more into her statements than she intended.

5. I will reiterate, your favorite quote speaks of geology and long periods of time. It says nothing about evolution.

6. If you read the story carefully, both the Bible and Mrs. White imply a rapid form of evolution.

7. By my reading of Mrs White, she believed that the Bible and Nature are both from the hand of God and cannot be in conflict, so any discrepancy we see means that we just don’t understand. I don’t accept the assertion that our understanding of the Bible is more reliable than our understanding of science. I acknowlege that Mrs. White makes statements that seem pro-Bible/antiiscience, but as I quoted previously, she also states explicitly that our schools are to teach science to correct our errors in theology. She could have said it the other way around, but she didn’t.

8. Shannon, I can’t comment on pollens, that is out of my area of expertise, and it really doesn’t pertain to the issue of freedom of thought.

9. Here is your “Bird-dinosaur”
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/09/090928205415.htm

10. The very fact that the issue generates so much controversy proves in my mind that there is enough doubt about the truth that we, especially as Adventists should be tolerant of those on the other side. We certanly shouldn’t be firing or threatening anyone.

11. Coersion is the fundamental principle of Babylon, from Cain,Able and the tower of Babel, to the three worthies in the fiery furnace in Babylon, to Pagan Rome and the persecution of Chritians, to Papal Rome and the persecution of the Martyrs, to appostate protestantism and the Salem witch trials, to Islam and 9/11, to contemporary Adventism firing Biology teachers. Remember, Christ did NOT come to save the Righteous (those who by faith think that they are right). He ONLY came to save Sinners (those who think they don’t understand).

12. “The Bible and the Bible only” as the only source for truth sounds nice, but has no foundation in reality.