Even the SDA church, in writing the Fundamental Beliefs allows …

Comment on LSU student petition surfaces by BobRyan.

Even the SDA church, in writing the Fundamental Beliefs allows that we don’t have it all figured out yet.
“These beliefs, as set forth here, constitute the church’s understanding and expression of the teaching of Scripture. Revision of these statements may be expected at a General Conference session when the church is led by the Holy Spirit to a fuller understanding of Bible truth or finds better language in which to express the teachings of God’s Holy Word.”

The statement above is not an admission of a flaw in our doctrines. It is admission that we do not possess infinite knowledge. Thus it cannot be bent to mean “we are not realy sure if Jesus is the Son of God we are still looking into it to see if that is really true”. It also cannot be bent to mean “we are not sure if the Bible really says that God created the World in 6 days, or if the Bible can be trusted in that regard, or if a day is really a day – still looking into it”.

And that can be said for the other doctrines as well.

in Christ,


BobRyan Also Commented

LSU student petition surfaces
“After paying 60,000 for our education we deserve to hear this evidence”.

How sad that the students at LSU had to “petition” their SDA university to come up with at least “some” initiative in presenting science that affirms the events that actually happened IN nature instead of simply making up stories about “birds coming from reptiles”!

After all – you can pay a lot less than 60,000 to hear “birds come from reptiles” all day long in other schools.

How SAD that LSU would need to dismiss this evidence instead of being fully rebuked by it, and immediately reformed by it. It is evidence of their having turned a blind eye to the concerns of the students over this key issue. Did they think this deed would not come out into the light of day?

I pray that God will vindicate his people who choose reform over rebellion.

in Christ,


LSU student petition surfaces
This petition from 2004 — and then this letter from 2004 (see link: http://www.educatetruth.com/la-sierra-evidence/former-lsu-student-letter-reveals-professors-agenda/comment-page-1/#comment-22376 ) tell me that Geraty, McCloskey and Fritz Guy were working a coordinated program that was so opposed to SDA values that the insightful Bible believing Christian students themselves were raising their hands in objection – and then being ignored.

in Christ,


To stand in defense of truth and righteousness when the majority forsake us, to fight the battles of the Lord when champions are few–this will be our test. At this time we must gather warmth from the coldness of others, courage from their cowardice, and loyalty from their treason.–5T 136 (1882). {LDE 180.4}

LSU student petition surfaces

mary hilde says:
November 12, 2010 nice. it’s hard to believe there were actually 78 students six years ago who cared that evolution was being promoted. in 2009 it seemed there were only two or three who protested, and they have either left the school in disgust or have graduated after much duress. i wonder … are there any students left who care about biblical creation or has the school finally weeded them all out?

I am waiting for the rush of LSU students coming here and affirming a literal 7 day creation week less than 10,000 years ago who object to an SDA university proclaiming evolutionism as the right answer for the doctrine on origins and the explanation for the taxanomic order of genomes seen today. Those students will either claim that LSU is explicitly promoting the literal 7 day creation week less than 10,000 years ago as the “Real events that happened in nature” in their Biology and Religion classes – or they will say that they do not care whether LSU does that or not.

In the mean time while we wait – it is instructive that this thread dedicated to the atrocity of an SDA teaching institution ignoring the plea of its own students when the “petition” that SDA values and doctrines be taught an the SDA school — the “real focus” of some will be “how many people exactly were in attendance at the talk that Sean gave to that group of students”. As good a misdirection as any if you ask me.

in Christ,


Recent Comments by BobRyan

Supreme Court Decision on Church Employment Case

Mack Ramsy:: : but the one thing we know for certain is that it was designed to change. There are so many back up and redundancies designed to make whatever changes that DNA faces to be profitable for the organism, or if their deleterious to ensure they don’t damage the subsequent generation (yes there are very complex methods for doing this) The immune system in fact does it intentionally.

Obviously the references above to “designed” and “intention” could not be overlooked by the objective unbiased reader applying a bit of critical thinking to the topic. And so my response below merely states the obvious point of agreement on a part of that post.

No wonder the application of a bit of critical thinking just then – demands that we conclude from your remarks above – that you are an example of an evolutionist that is strongly in favor of Intelligent Design. I too favor I.D.

Mack Ramsy:
Obviously the references abov

I don’t believe in ID as it’s traditionally defined. I believe that God created a system designed to evolve.

Obviously the references abov
In your earlier statement you claimed that system was designed with “redundancy and backup” features. That is not something rocks, gas and water could ever do – hence the term “Intelligent Design”.

But perhaps you have access to more highly advanced rocks, gas and water?

Also you mention “intention” as if the immune system was deliberately designed with an end goal in view.

As it turns out – it is those “intention” and “Intelligent Design” aspects (so key to your response above) that are at the very heart of I.D. enabled science were we have the freedom to “follow the data where it leads” even if it leads to a conclusion in favor of design that does not fit atheist dogma about there “being no god”.

how odd then that you seem to later back pedal on your prior observation.

Thus you seem to be in somewhat of a self-conflicted position at the moment.

At least given the content of your statements about “intent” and “backup systems” and “redundancy” designed into the systems themselves (even to the point of “error correction” as we see in the case of nucleic polypeptide amino acid chains and their chiral orientation).

Of course all that just gets us back here

Mack&#032Ramsy: My language in this forum is not formal. Try not to get caught up in semantic issues.

Out of curiosity is that statement supposed to provide a solution to just how it is that something “not designed” is able to exhibit unique design characteristics such as “back up systems” – “redundancy” – error correcting mechanism and an “immune system with intention” regarding a specific outcome or goal?

No doubt the study of biology most definitely shows us that such things are present “in nature” based on “observations in nature” – and so you are right to state it as you did.

So if you are then going to double back and reject what you just affirmed – what do you have by way of “explanation” for such a self-conflicted course?

Reaching for a solution of the form – “Pay no attention to my actual words if they do not serve to deny I.D.” does not provide as satisfactory resolution to the problem as you may have at first supposed.

in Christ,


Strumming the Attached Strings
@David Read:

Erv Taylor is not “afraid” to post here – but he is “Afraid” to have well thought out views posted on AToday that do not flatter his agenda.

That was not news right?

in Christ,


Michigan Conference vs. LSU – Right Wing Politics or Truth in Advertising?
@John J.:

John&#032J&#046: The fact remains, any decision direction or policy made by a church, conference, union or GCEC can be reversed or changed by those they serve.

Agreed and the fact that the constituency are not voting to reverse it – is a sign that this is not merely the views of the Administration in Michigan.

As for hierarchy – there is no doctrinal authority in the administrators.

And as for administrative hierarchy – the GC leadership has no authority to dismiss rogue teachers which is one of the reasons that this particular meltdown at LSU seems to go on and on and on. It slows at times and it speeds up at other times – but the fire is not simply put out.

in Christ,


A “Christian Agnostic”?

ken:: Let’s continue shall we. You posit that Adam and Eve were producing telomerase as adults as a result of eating fruit from the tree of life. Would you agree that the production of adult telomerase was a direct result of the environment or did the gene(s) affecting production of the a enzyme as adults mutate in their progeny?

1. I never stated whether the fruit from the Tree of Life provided the telemerase enzyme or simply provided a trigger enzyme/protein that caused Adam and Eve to produce Telemerase. Either way the end result was the same.

2. The salient point is that we have a known mechanism that affects the aging of cells starting with new borns.

This is simply “observation in nature” given in response to your question about an observed mechanism in humans for the 900 year life span the Bible mentions.

It is hard to “do the study” without having them under observation.

1. But it is not hard to see the gradual decline in ages over time.

2. It is not hard to see the Bible declare that access to the Tree of Life was the determining factor.

3. It is not hard to see that even in humans today – the ability remains for us to produce telemerase – but we quickly lose that ability.

4. It is not hard to see what effect that has on the telomeres of infants.

The list of knowns for this mechanism are far more impressive than the “I imagine a mechanism whereby static genomes acquire new coding genes not already present and functioning in nature and that this happens for billions of years”.

Ken: Hi BobWe are making good progress!Thanks for your admitting thaf we do not have Adam and Eve or their progeny under observation to do the study.

My pleasure.

Let’s look at the empirical results of your observation. There is no physical evidence that the progeny or descendants lived to 900 years, right? Thus there is no physical evidence that the tree of life provided longevity through the increased production or activation of telermerase right?

There is evidence that a mechanism does exist whereby access to an enzyme would in fact affect the aging process of human cells.

That mechanism is observed in nature to be related to the enzyme Telemerase.

There is a ton of evidence that food contains enzymes and proteins and that the human body can produce enzymes in response to the presence of trigger proteins and enzymes.

It is irrefutably true that humans still today produce telemerase in the case of infants just before birth. Impossible to deny it – though you seem to want to go down that dead end road.

You asked about the “mechanism” that can be observed today that would account for long ages of life recorded in the Bible.

You now seem to be pulling the classic “bait and switch” asking for the video of the people living for long ages before the flood.

Nice try —

As I said before – your method is along the lines of grasping at straws in a true “any ol’ exuse will do” fashion.

in Christ,


SDA Darwinians compromise key church doctrines
Rev 21 does not say the planet has no light – it says the City has no NEED of light from the Sun.

The inconvenient deatils point to the fact that the New Earth will have a Sun and Moon but the New Jerusalem will have eternal day due to the light of God’s presence.

This is not the hard part.

in Christ,