Bill: I think there is a slight misunderstanding here. …

Comment on La Sierra University Resignation Saga: Stranger-than-Fiction by Faith.

Bill:
I think there is a slight misunderstanding here. I can only speak for myself, of course, but there is no question in my mind that the main work of the church is taking place in the heavenly sanctuary and that we follow Jesus, not the GC.

In my mind, the SDA church is the earthly representation of God’s church in heaven. And, because human beings are running this church, and because all human beings are fallible, there are things that go on in the church that shouldn’t–case in point the issues we are here to protest.

However, that doesn’t mean we should leave the church and close it down. To paraphrase what Peter said, “To whom would we go?” There is no other church on earth with the pure Bible-based doctrine that has been given to the SDA church.

These liberals are striving to change our doctrines–it is up to us, the conservatives, to see that our precious doctrines are preserved. And, frankly, I believe we have Jesus on our side, so I don’t see how we can fail. Now perhaps that is a childish faith speaking–but aren’t we supposed to have the faith of a child?

Even with all the problems we are having to deal with, there is no thought in my mind of ever leaving the church. God will have to plainly show me if He wants me to leave this church. I have no doubt that He can do that if that is what He wants. And until then, I will remain faithful to the doctrines of this church as I have been taught them from the cradle.

I have not, nor will I (God willing), ever subscribe to the liberal sect that has crept into this church and is trying to sully our doctrines and our faith. I raise my voice against the wretched music they are playing, against the idea that the commandments are no longer valid, against evolution being taught in our schools, against night club churches, against contemplative prayer, and any other heresy that raises its ugly head. I believe we are soldiers of Christ and need to do our best (with His help of course) to save His church from Satan’s assaults, not just turn and run from the enemy.

Never forget, Bill, that Christ is keeping His watchcare over the church whom He loves so much He refers to her as His bride. I believe He will see her through to the very end. As I said before, I don’t think we will be a physical organization right to the end, but I believe we will be for some time during the process. I wouldn’t be surprised that after the people from the other churches take the places of those who are shaken out, the movements will be very rapid and the church as a physical organization will not exist very long after that event.

We have been given a bit of an insight into the future events that we face at the end of time, but the details have yet to be revealed. Our only safety is to fill our lamps with the Word of God so that we may know with certainty what we believe and why, and so that we can light our lamps and let them shine forth to the world–both for their benefit and our own. We need it also to show us the way to go.

I seem to remember that Ellen White says the church will appear about to fall, but it will not. Perhaps we have now arrived, or soon will arrive, at that point.

Happy Sabbath Bill and all.

Faith Also Commented

La Sierra University Resignation Saga: Stranger-than-Fiction
There has been much discussion on the church and whether or not it will, as an organization, go through to the end. In reading the various posts I have come to the conclusion that we seem to be using different definitions of ‘the end’ and thus are not in agreement on this topic. I would like to clarify, if I may, what I believe concerning the church and the end of time.

I do agree with many of you that there will be a time when the church will not be operating as a physical organization. That will be the time when we are scattered in various hiding places over the earth, or in prison, as the Lord sees fit–and this will happen after the close of probation with the entrance and enforcement of the International Sunday Laws. However, I don’t think that this negates the church being alive to the end. No, we won’t be meeting in churches, or paying our tithes and offerings to the organization just before God comes. But the church–the people and her doctrines–will survive to the end.

In the book Messenger of the Lord by Herbert E Douglass, he points to a statement that E G White made in 1908, “I am instructed to say to Seventh-day Adventists the world over, God has called us as a people to be a peculiar treasure unto Himself. He has appointed that His church on earth shall stand perfectly united in the Spirit and counsel of the Lord of hosts to the end of time.”18

The book goes on to say:

“Revelation 3 depicts no last-day church beyond Laodicea, thus giving hope that some day many of them will repent, overcome, and fulfill God’s plan for the last-day church (Rev. 3:18-21). No other subject for any church-related agenda, either for individuals or institutions, can be more urgent or important to implement.”

My beliefs agree with these statements. We have been given no other counsel to leave the Seventh Day Adventist Church. Since Ellen White was a prophet for the last days–to the very end of time, I think she would have made it crystal clear–abundantly clear–that we would have to leave this church if, indeed, we would. I remember a statement saying to the effect “Stay with the church for she will come into port.” So, I will not be looking for another church.

I do know it is possible for the church to become Babylon. The possiblity exists as long as there is sin on this earth. However, I think that if this is going to happen to the SDA church, it would have been prophesied for us, so that we would be prepared to leave the church. I also realize that new light may yet come to us…but I sincerely doubt that, in the light of the shaking (which is a reformation), we need to worry about this. I fully believe the church will be cleansed to allow the work to be finished. From what Sister Ellen says, those who come into the church will fill the places of the ones who are shaken out. This will happen before probation ends, or else there would be no way anyone could change.

Hopefully this makes my stance more clear on this subject. Sorry if I have misled anyone with my earlier posts.


La Sierra University Resignation Saga: Stranger-than-Fiction
Bill said,”I find it interesting, Faith, that you would use this analogy which supports my position and not your own.”

How do you figure that? I think it supports my position beautifully.

I don’t get why you think we would have loyalty to Jesus VS loyalty to the church. Jesus is the head of the church. Loyalty to Him entails loyalty to His church. I am rather confused with your line of reasoning.

Do I think all that is going on in the church today is right? Would I be here on this site if I did? Have I not spoken out plainly regarding the error that has crept into our church?

I think, if I understand you correctly, where we differ is that I think the Lord will cleanse His church and you think that we may be called to leave the church. The quotation you keep writing out doesn’t say to me what it apparently says to you. Because of this, I fail to see how we will come to agreement on this topic. I think maybe it would be best to just leave it. God will lead us in the way He wants us to go.

Have a great Sabbath, Bill, as well as everyone else.


La Sierra University Resignation Saga: Stranger-than-Fiction
Charles: “My point is that I was just sharing that I am coming to the conclusion that we are not accomplishing anything here”

In one way you are right, Charles. As I have said in an earlier post, all this discussion on evolution vs creation hasn’t changed anyone’s viewpoint one iota. But don’t despair, Charles. One thing we have accomplished here is dragging the sins of LSU out into the open and light of day. It is no longer evil growing in the dark. I continue to hope that the leadership will yet make the necessary changes to bring this all to a satisfactory end.

BTW I appreciate your posts as well. Keep up the fight of good faith.


Recent Comments by Faith

WASC Reviews LSU’s Accreditation
Pauluc: “I do not judge my beliefs by anything other than the revelation of God in Jesus Christ. I judge my science by the conventions that has been the source of the knowledge of the world that we now possess and enjoy. I do not at all confuse the two.”

Seeing as science was created by God, just how do you presume to separate the two? Science, like every other part of our lives, should include God. You can’t profess to believe in a God that Created the earth when looking at religion and deny the Creator when looking at science. That would be “science-so-called”. True science reflects the Creator.

You can’t have it both ways–either you believe in the Bible and God as Creator in your science or you don’t believe the Bible and God as Creator in your religion. God does not accept the divided heart.


Supreme Court Decision on Church Employment Case

Mack&#032Ramsy: You must either acknowledge a massive global conspiracy, or that there is some truth in what is being taught.

There is a massive global conspiracy, Mack. It is called Satan going around like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. All your supposed knowledge, if it contradicts in any way, shape, or form, what God stated in the Bible is WRONG. Anyone who is deceived thereby is not wise.

Mack&#032Ramsy: We’re trying to incorporate what the bible teaches in a constructive meaningful way.

Not so–you are doing violence to the Scriptures to try to make it fit man-made theories. You have chosen, unwisely, to reject God’s word in favour of man’s theories. That’s the truth of it.

Mack&#032Ramsy: Oh i know this is kind of a personal question but how many gay people have you killed this week? No? any pagans then? Hmm. Might want to get on that. Just a friendly suggestion in helping you be personally accountable for biblical teachings from friend in Jesus.

Hardly a friendly suggestion, Mack, more like a nasty accusation. I wonder how surprised you are going to be to see the wicked punished? God doesn’t like to do the dirty work, but it will have to be done. In the meantime, pointing out sin isn’t the same as killing someone, is it???


If the Creation Account Isn’t True…

Bill&#032Sorensen: We have a good spiritual time, and many tell me when they are getting out, they will keep the bible Sabbath

God Bless you and your ministry, Bill.


WASC Reviews LSU’s Accreditation
And round and round we go.

Professor Kent and Pauluc et al continue to try to force us all to admit to blind faith as the reason for our belief in Creation, and Sean, bless him, conintues to offer proofs for Creation because he knows that there are evidences of the Creator in Creation and we don’t have to take it all on “blind” faith. So…what is behind all this constant strife?

Here’s how I see it.

The professors and other like-minded individuals want us to claim blind faith because then they think they can put Creation into a little box called “Religion” and separate it from the box called “Science” (that’s their opinion, not mine.) This is a vain quest, because it can’t be done. You cannot separate the Creator from His science. You cannot, with any integrity, separate your religion from any part of your life. The only possible reason to try to do this is so you can put forth “proofs” propounded by mere men that don’t mesh with the Bible. This is being double minded…trying to serve God and man…which, of course is, in reality, not serving God at all, because you are basically calling Him a liar.

Don’t you realize that Satan is a masterful deceiver? Don’t you think he can manipulate the evidence to make you draw false conclusions from it? Don’t you realize that there is a perfectly good explanation for it all if it is seen in the correct light?

You see, this is where I feel that some SDA scientists lose their credibility. They have been faced with arguments that may, on the surface, prove evolution. So they begin to question God instead of questioning the evolutionists. Just the fact that if you look at the whole picture you can see that the world is getting worse and worse instead of better and better blows the whole theory of evolution right out of the water.

And why do our SDA scientists go to the world for their wisdom when we have the Bible and SOP to guide us? They are looking for worldly acceptance and acclaim, that’s why. They don’t want to be seen as the “lunatic fringe” who believe in God. They can’t tolerate the jeering of the worldly “scientists.” They perceive that as undermining their credibility and dignity as professional scientists. Well in actual fact, they lose their credibility as both Christians and scientists when they try to marry truth with error.

This is why Professor Kent’s claim to believe in Creation as stated in the Bible is not taken seriously. How can it be when he tries to claim there are no evidences to support Creation? That is simply not true. Sean can, and has, presented many evidences to support Creation. And there are many others out there like Sean that understand the significance of these evidences.

Of course the typical response from the “scientists” is that those who claim there is evidence for Creation are “uneducated”, “ignorant” people who “don’t understand scientific principles.” Yet these are the very people who claim that evolution, an unscientific and unprovable theory, is the answer to human origins. This is unfathomably faulty logic. There is no valid reason why SDA scientists should be promoting evolution in any of its forms.

While I know that there are aspects of God and His Creation that are a mystery to us at this point, and that must be taken on faith, we are not called to base our beliefs on “blind” faith. We have every reason to believe that God speaks the truth to us in His word and that we can rely on His veracity 100% whether or not we have concrete proof that what He claims is true. We have seen, and are seeing daily, prophecies come true. It is absolutely amazing that He could give Nebuchadnezzar a dream that accurately shows the world’s kingdoms right to the end of time. And it has all come to pass as predicted. That in itself should inspire complete confidence in His Word.

So, what it all boils down to is this: Professor Kent and Pauluc, who claim to have faith in God’s Word actually undermine it and Sean, who claims to have no blind faith, actually upholds the faith. Kind of funny, isn’t it?

Happy Sabbath everyone.


Supreme Court Decision on Church Employment Case

Mack&#032Ramsy: I have enormous respect for God’s word. If God’s word is not consistent with observable phenomena then it is not God’s word that is wrong, but we who are wrong in our understanding of it. I think others have a misunderstanding in interpretation.

I’m sorry, Mack, but how you described the scriptures to me and how you are willing to shift their meaning to coincide with the beliefs of mere men, doesn’t really demonstrate to me that you have much respect for, or for that matter, confidence in the scriptures or God.

As to interpreting the scriptures, we need to adhere to the interpretations God gave us when this church was established. This was not left to human interpretation. The group of people who first established the beliefs of this church spent days and nights in prayer to establish the interpretations according to God’s word. And if they were heading the wrong direction, God sent visions by EGW to correct them. That’s why I have full confidence in the way the church doctrines are applied. It fits together so beautifully…like a jigsaw puzzle of a masterpiece. Why mess with that? Just because some mortal men have come up with a fairytale? Not likely. You are putting your trust in evidence that Satan has tampered with. That you would be willing to change the doctrinal beliefs of our church to fit with that is sooooo unwise.

I just feel so sad for people who can’t see the beauty of our doctrines. How they fit together so perfectly and are established with several different texts throughout the Bible–sort of like the testimony of more than one witness.

We have been given extra light on the subject of evolution in the SOP writings. God has outright condemned the theory as error. How can you possibly go against such plain testimony? This is testimony from God–EGW was just the messenger. To reinterpret scripture to fit with evolution is the heights of foolishness.

Please, Mack, if you have any relationship with God whatsoever, go down on your knees and ask Him. With an open mind, let Him guide you. He will show you the truth if you will let Him. I would advise you to take the time you have been putting into studying the evolutionary error and put it into studying the scriptures and SOP. Your time will be better spent because you will find genuine truth there.