Comment on Bradley, Beach and Kaatz retain attorney by Wayne Matlock.
Perhaps God Himself will do something to correct a problem if those who are supposed to cannot come up with a solution?
I rather doubt that the recorder was left running on purpose. Perhaps God saw to it that it was forgotten?
For those who have lost their jobs over this, and those who are still supporting them, this does not mean that God is no longer interested in you. It simply means that He is finely letting you suffer the consequences of your own dicisions, perhaps to get your attention?
However, there is some good news yet! If He does have your attention now, why not give Him a chance to reveal Himself to you? to convience you beyond any doubt that He is real and His Book is true as written? Spend some time (minimum of thirty minutes) each day – with no other motive that to find Him and let Him tell you what He wants from you, then do it! You will never regret it if you let Him into your life!
Your Brother in Christ
Recent Comments by Wayne Matlock
WASC considers outside efforts ‘threatening’ to LSU’s autonomy
Looks like I haven’t posted enough on this to completely understand how it works. It was Professor Kent who wrote, “I donâ€™t think so. Iâ€™d say the chances of this being true and between nil and none” in response to my statement that the school didn’t make its own policies.
Here is my statement:
“The school itself does not make the policies. The Conference â€˜Rules and by-lawsâ€™ should tell just how the policies are formulated.”
If we can have someone who has a copy of the rules and bylaws check this out and post it here for all to see it would be helpful. It doesn’t have to be Professor Kent, anyone who has served on that committee at a constituency meeting should have a copy. This is fact in the Conference where I lived. I have served on that committee and it had to be furnished to us in order for us to do the work.
Once the truth of the legal procedure is known, your next logical step is to make it known to every baptized voting member in the conference. Then urge them to select delegates to the next constituency meeting who will vote for the right people to be put in office – people who will correct the problem. This worked on a different issue in our conference.
If the above process fails, then God will have to move on the General Conference to arouse the World Church for support as they tackle this unpleasant task.
Think it through! The school belongs to the church, not its employees. I’m not an attorney. However, if I were the one mentioned as keeping the lid on board information, I expect I would be looking for a way out. He/she already knows that it doesn’t take an attorney to realize that the board is responsible to the conference, not the school.
May God’s blessings and guidance be on all
Sincerely, Your Brother in Christ,
Wayne Matlock wroteI donâ€™t think so. Iâ€™d say the chances of this being true and between nil and none. (Quote)
It would be interesting to know for sure. I assume your membership is held in the same conference where the school is located? If so, you should have access to a copy of the rules and bylaws. Could we get you to obtain it and post the reality here for all of us to see? Thanks in advance.
Your friend and Brother in Christ
Hi Ron, and everyone else who are concerned about this situation:
It has been awhile since I took time to see what is going on with this issue. I am surprised that no attorney has come forward – or has he/she and I just missed it?
The following is my understanding of just who has the authority and responsibility to correct this situation. As you read it I expect you will realize that you already knew this?
One point should be made for the sake of the tender-hearted, of which I am one. Even with Satan and his followers, there came a point in time when it was too obvious to mistake that they were never going to follow their Creator and God (how painful it must have been for God) was left no choice but to remove them from heaven.
Now for what I understand about ownership, authority, and responsibility as pertaining to LSU and its roll in the church. If there is a lawyer who is keeping up with this will you please grade this and tell all of us what the real legalities are?
Ownership; LSU belongs to the Local Conference of Seventh-day Adventists in which it is located. The conference is made up of baptized members of the Seventh-day-Adventist Church. That means any one who holds membership in any Seventh-day Adventist church in that conference is part owner.
Governed by: A board of Directors who has the authority and responsibility to hire the School’s staff. The Board also has the authority and responsibility of removing any staff member, including the president, who does not follow the Conference’s school policies – Yes, the Conference. The school itself does not make the policies. The Conference ‘Rules and by-laws’ should tell just how the policies are formulated.
The Board of Directors: How is the Board of Directors selected? The procedure probably varies from conference to conference. It is likely to be done at a constituency meeting when the conference officials are hired for the next term.
The constituency meeting; It is attended by delegates from the various church congregations in the conference. Committees (nominating committee, rules and by-laws committee, etc.)do work and make recommendations to the total body of delegates just like in your local church. The total body then votes to accept or reject the committees recommendations. The results becomes the guide for the conference until the next constituency meeting. The school board is likely to be selected at this meeting. So! If the board is not doing its job? At the next constituency meeting, vote them out and select someone who will follow God’s directions rather than the world!! The school administrator is supposed to correct the problems as they surface. Whenever it becomes obvious that he/she cannot correct a problem any other way, the offending staff is supposed to be removed. If he/she don’t do so, then he/she should be replaced themselves along with the offending staff.
That leaves one BIG question: Suppose the constituency base in a given conference has drifted so far from the world church’s beliefs that it refuses to correct the problem? Now that’s a real touchy situation. I’m sure the General Conference would become involved and do everything God would have them to for a long time. However, if after it becomes obvious that the constituency in question is never going to re-align with the world church, and appears bent on changing it to fit their own way of thinking, then the unthinkable must happen. Any members who are still faithful to God and His world church would be the sole owners of all church property while the rest would have to be declared to have gone into apostasy and would have their names removed from the books (see your Church Manuel under ‘church discipline’.
Sincerely, your Brother in Christ.
firstname.lastname@example.org or email@example.com
Thank you for responding. As I have been watching the voting response I could tell by the poor results, as compared to my previous posts, that I had not come across the way I intended. Perhaps I dwelt too long on the ‘compassion issue.’ That was for Ron’s sake. He doesn’t know me and had shown concern that my positive remarks for ‘decisive action now’ was perhaps showing a lack of compassion. Compassion does have its place. Remember Jesus’ prayer while hanging on the cross. However, if a poisonous snake is about to bite one of my family, and since I don’t possess the power of dealing with it as God did for Paul, it will get decisive action very, very quickly. That won’t remove the fact that I know the snake is only trying to defend itself and therefore feel a bit compassionate toward it. I hope the illustration is plain? There does come a time when action must take place but not without compassion.
Brother Scott, please review my posting that you responded to. Apparently you have been following this problem longer than I have and have come to realize, I expect a long time back, that this is not going to be stopped by persuasion. I have not been following it, didn’t even know about it, until a very short time back.
You used the term ‘decade’ in reference to ‘the new theology and celebration worship.’ If you will notice I used the term ‘ten years’ twice in my comments – meaning that’s more than ample time to deal with this problem before decisive action – which should make it plain that I also have come to the same conclusion that you have. And I expect I got there quicker that you did.
After reviewing my comments I can see that the next to last paragraph talking about proper procedure is where the real problem was. Let me say this:
I’m no lawyer and what I have to say about procedure is not intended to be presented as ‘the way it is.’ It is just my concept of how it is supposed to work. I’m going to try to explain it again in more detail, and it may very well be completely wrong. I hope we do have an Adventist lawyer keeping tabs on this. If so, my plea with you, grade this presentation and give us the ‘real’ proper procedure. What follows is my understanding of how it’s supposed to work. This understanding comes from what I understood I was being told, plus what I have observed during the fifty nine years I have been a member of the Seventh-day Adventist Church.
When the teacher, or anybody else who thinks they have found something the church is wrong about, first realized he/she had encountered what they believe to be forceful evidence that the church was wrong and the evolutionist were right, that was the time to activate the process. Instead of just starting to teach it, he/she was supposed to have taken it to the local pastor in private. It could be that the pastor would have the answers. No further action would have needed to be taken. If the pastor was unable to clear it up, he would then send it to the local conference president who would, if necessary, enlist whatever scholarly help was available on the local level. If collectively, this study group were unable to resolve it, maintaining the church’s official position, then it would be sent to the next level up, etc. until the final stop which would then be the General Conference. Even then, the GC personal would not have to spend much, if any, time on it. That would be the point where The Biblical Research Institute (BRI) would come into the picture – which is the reason for its existence. When the question found its place on their agenda they would research every bit of information known to man on the subject. All this time the individual who originated this question is supposed to remain silent, teaching what they know the church believes. If they can’t in good conscience do that, they should do the right thing and quietly leave, thus maintaining their own good record and avoiding the situation we are in right now.
After the BRI have finished their work, they do not have the authority to make a decision on what the church is to do with it. Their job would be to bring their findings to the General Conference in session. There the officially elected delegates would consider it and vote it up or down. If it became a part of the church’s belief, then, and only then, would the individual who originated the question be free to teach/preach it. To do so ahead of this process is what splits the church and causes off-shouts.
One other point: Someone mentioned closing down the school? Nope! It belongs to the church – the local conference where it operates. The appropriate thing to do is dismiss the offending personal and replace them with people who believe and adhere to the twenty-eight fundamentals.
As far as the General Conference doing anything about the current situation – I rather doubt they can legally do anything beyond influence and withhold financial support. As you said, Brother Scott, this problem is the responsibility of the local conference in which the school operates.
May God help us out of this mess with as little damage as possible.
Sincerely Your Brother in Christ & a friend you haven’t met yet.
Thanks for responding. Yes, I recognize what you said about compassion. I am so much into that, filled with so much compassion and patience, that outsiders who know me and have observed me at work with difficult people, have labeled me as one who has the patience of Job. My last job, after closing my business, was a semi-retirement job as a medicaid driver. My supervisor, in the annual evaluation report of the drivers, reported to the company CEO concerning me, “This man never complains about anything.”
If you will read the book ‘Living God’s Love’ you will understand how I came to be like that.
However, if someone starts taring down my house while I’m in it, I may not lose my temper, but I will surely try to stop them lest the house fall in while my family is in it.
I became aware of this problem sometime during 2008. I believe someone pointed out that it has been going on ten years or more? That seems long enough to verify defiance?
When I was elected first elder in my church the first time, the day I was voted in our local pharisee was waiting for me after service. He loaned to me his copy of volume three of the Testimonies. He had highlighted certain passages which he was much troubled about. Among them was the quote that says if the leaders of the church didn’t do something about the sins in the church God would hold the church responsible as a body – meaning himself included. He then began to tell me what was going on, naming names. I reacted with shock. I had no idea of all this. I asked, “How long has this been going on?” He said, “Oh, twenty years or more!” I responded,”Well, if it has been going on that long, it can just continue a while, while I pray about it and study the problem. Then, I promise you I will do something about it.” It took me two years to complete my study. During that time the congregation, including the offenders, got to observe my way of dealing with problems. At the end of the two years I delivered the findings in the form of a sermon. I was astonished at the results.
This man who caused me to do the study had been trying to do something about it himself. He was in every-body’s face. Of course he was repulsed. No one likes to be criticized. Don’t misunderstand me. This Brother was very sincere. I had no doubt of his own relationship with God. However, he turned out to be the most blessed with the message. It relieved him of a burden he was not supposed to be carrying.
A few years later, just before his passing, his last words to me were, “Wayne, I don’t know how I will ever be allowed through the gates into the city after I have been so guilty of judging others?” I responded, “Brother _______ , You just took care of that! He went to his rest in peace.
I wish no harm to those who don’t believe like I do. No one has to believe like I do in order to be my friend. If you have read the other postings I did on this issue you noticed how, when addressing those who are believed to be teaching things our church does not believe then accepting pay from the church while doing it, I have closed by signing off as “a friend you haven’t met yet?” I sincerely mean that!
Compassion does have its place in this, and it does not end when the time comes to take decisive action(I remember as a child when my mom had to resort to spanking she would always tell me it hurt her more that it did me. I had to grow up and have children of my own before I understood what she meant. I think it must be something like ‘God’s strange act’ when He has to punish the wicked – whom He loves dearly!).
Now that we have talked about compassion, let’s get back to the real issue. After ten years, is it not time to take decisive action? Even now we still don’t have to go through what God will eventually. These folks don’t have to be our enemies! I would like very much to study their material and ask honest questions. But, as stated repeatedly, by myself as well as others, the real issue is their accepting church pay to tear down the church. A case of biting the hand that feeds them. Are they perhaps thinking of converting the whole church to their way of thinking? As I pointed out before, the church has built into its own governmental framework a way of changing. However, to just start preaching and teaching something different without going through the proper channels, without giving the church a chance to study it and respond to it, is just out of line and unacceptable. It can ony cause strife and confusion. Done right, it would give the whole church the privilege of voting on it through their representative to the ‘General Conference in session.’
Again, thank you for responding. If you would like to talk further, and perhaps on any other subject or topic, I have two email addresses. firstname.lastname@example.org & email@example.com. You may use either one.
Sincerely Your Brother in Christ,