@Brad: P.S. By the way, the …

Comment on Ted Wilson: “We will not flinch. We will not be deterred.” by Sean Pitman.

@Brad:

P.S. By the way, the whole “firmament” and “flat Earth” idea is a hoax, myths produced in the late 19th century. – Sean Pitman

Just to clarify, the myth propagated by Draper and White is not that anyone ever believed in the flat earth. It is that belief in a flat earth was predominant in the middle ages. No-one doubts that belief in a flat earth was common before the ancient Greeks, and many scholars are of the view that it is expressed in the Bible.

This is possible for some, but perhaps not all, of the biblical writers. There are several passages in the Bible that seem to suggest that at least some of the biblical writers did understand the Earth to be spherical.

Isaiah, for example, writes about God sitting enthroned above the “circle of the Earth” (Isaiah 40:22). It is also interesting to note that the biblical writers emphasize the infinite distance of the east from the west (since this would not be true of the north from the south) – indicating an understanding of the spherical nature of the Earth and of the magnetic poles of the Earth (Psalms 103:12) and possibly of the infinite distance of the heavens above in the verse before (Psalms 103:11). The biblical authors also talk about God hanging the Earth in empty space (Job 26:7) and clearly had the ability to compare the Earth to other planets (especially the moon) as well as the Sun as being round or spherical (i.e., not square with “corners”). Job indicates that where light terminates, darkness begins “on the face of the waters” (Job 26:10 NIV). This suggests day and night on a spherical globe for people who knew at least something about large bodies of water. The observation of sea-going vessels or even land travelers disappearing over the horizon would also be a rather obvious clue for a spherical Earth for even the semi-observant.

Regardless, the Bible was written by humans who did use human language and human understanding to describe what was being shown to them by God. God did not dictate word-for-word what was written down nor did God correct all errors of background and assumption for the biblical authors. However, this does not mean that God did not provide privileged information regarding the natural world which would otherwise not be known.

The information regarding the creation week, for example, may have been given in vision to the writer(s) of Genesis from an Earth-bound perspective. However, if the vision is assumed to be a true picture of reality from a particular witnessed perspective, the description of what was seen from that perspective, though limited in both perspective and human understanding, would still be a very good clue to the nature of reality. For instance, it would be very hard for anyone, regardless of background, to fail to understand the concept of “evenings and mornings” marking off “days” of creation. Even a child would get this much right.

Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com

Sean Pitman Also Commented

Ted Wilson: “We will not flinch. We will not be deterred.”
@Ervin Taylor:

@Brad:

I’m reasonably positive that one of the hyperorthodox Educatetruthers will dispute Brad’s well-reasoned and documented point that the Hebrew understanding was obviously a geocentric understanding of the relationship of the earth and sun. Just as they had a premodern understanding of this, they also had a premodern understanding of the age of the earth and life upon it. That is not to disparage the Hebrews at all. They expressed the best “science” of their time and when Genesis was written they provided a narrative that viewed their whole world as the product of the actions of one and only one God. But I know that all of this is impossible for Educatetruthers to accept given their fundamentalist world view.

Perhaps they also had a “pre-modern” understanding of the whole concept of “God” as well? – attributing “miraculous” events to a personal God where no such God really exists?

You have to be careful with how far you, as a “SDA in good standing” take your pre-modern arguments. Pretty soon the Bible is no longer a source of any kind of “privileged information” whatsoever. It is really nothing more than a collection of moral fables and a description of pre-modern cultures.

Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com

P.S. By the way, the whole “firmament” and “flat Earth” idea is a hoax, myths produced in the late 19th century.

Jeffrey Burton Russell’s 1991 work, The Myth of the Flat Earth, completely clears up this persistent misconception and explains its origin in the late 1800s as an effort to discredit Christianity and support Darwinian thinking.

“This vast web of falsehood was invented and propagated by the influential historian John Draper (1811-1882) and many prestigious followers, such as Andrew Dickson White (1832-1918), the president of Cornell University, who made sure that the false account was perpetrated in texts, encyclopedias, and even allegedly serious scholarship, down to the present day. A lively current version of the lie can be found in Daniel Boorstin’s The Discoverers, found in any bookshop or library.

The reason for promoting both the specific lie about the sphericity of the earth and the general lie that religion and science are in natural and eternal conflict in Western society, is to defend Darwinism. The answer is really only slightly more complicated than that bald statement. The flat-earth lie was ammunition against the creationists. The argument was simple and powerful, if not elegant: “Look how stupid these Christians are. They are always getting in the way of science and progress. These people who deny evolution today are exactly the same sort of people as those idiots who for at least a thousand years denied that the earth was round. How stupid can you get?”

But that is not the truth.”


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I fail to see where you have convincingly supported your claim that the GC leadership contributed to the harm of anyone’s personal religious liberties? – given that the GC leadership does not and could not override personal religious liberties in this country, nor substantively change the outcome of those who lost their jobs over various vaccine mandates. That’s just not how it works here in this country. Religious liberties are personally derived. Again, they simply are not based on a corporate or church position, but rely solely upon individual convictions – regardless of what the church may or may not say or do.

Yet, you say, “Who cares if it is written into law”? You should care. Everyone should care. It’s a very important law in this country. The idea that the organized church could have changed vaccine mandates simply isn’t true – particularly given the nature of certain types of jobs dealing with the most vulnerable in society (such as health care workers for example).

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