Comment on Hope? Slim to none by Bob Helm.
Shawna, works are not the basis of salvation. The basis of salvation is grace, and works are its inevitable fruit. Consider these thoughts from Ellen White: “Should faith and works purchase the gift of salvation for anyone, then the Creator is under obligation to the creature. Here is an opportunity for falsehood to be accepted as truth. If any man can merit salvation by anything he may do, then he is in the same position as the Catholic to do penance for his sins. Salvation then, is partly of debt, that it may be earned as wages. If man cannot by any of his good works, merit salvation, then it must be wholly of grace, received by man as a sinner because he receives and believes in Jesuys. It is wholly a free gift. Justification by faith is placed beyond controversy.” (“Faith And Works,” p. 20)
“Grace is unmerited favor, and the believer is justified without any merit of his own, without any claim to offer God. . . But while he is justified because of the merit of Christ, he is not free to work unrighteousness. Faith works by love and bears a harvest of precious fruit. Where faith is, good works appear.” (1SM 398)
Also Fundamental Belief #18 states: “Salvation is all of grace and not of works, but its fruitage is obedience to the Commandments.”
This is the true Adventist position. In fact, it is the true Christian position. I rest my case and will say no more.
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Bob Helm Also Commented
Hope? Slim to none
Gentlemen, You may continue this conversation privately. Future comments will be deleted on the topic.
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Shane, I apologise for straying too far from the topic at hand. I should have broken off the conversation earlier. God bless!
Hope? Slim to none
Bill, let me tell you something else. Ellen White was not saying anything new. She was simply repeating what godly Christians have said for centuries about the relationship between faith and works. And no wonder, because it comes straight from the scriptures. For example, Martin Luther is well known for his emphasis on justification by grace alone through faith alone. But consider what he wrote about the necessity of obedience and good works: “Oh, it is a living, busy, active, mighty thing, this faith, and so it is impossible for it not to do good works incessantly. It does not ask whether there are good works to do, but before the question rises, it has already done them and is always at the doing of them. He who does not these works is a faithless man. . . For through faith, a man becomes sinless and comes to take pleasure in God’s commandments. Thus he gives to God the honor that is His and pays Him what he owes Him.” (Preface to Luther’s Commentary on Romans)
I submit to you that this statement from Martin Luther about obedience is every bit as strong as anything Ellen White wrote on the subject. It may even be stronger. But neither Martin nor Ellen were legalists. They were simply using strong language to emphasize the necessity of obedience as the fruit of faith.
Hope? Slim to none
Can you harmonize this statement with your theology, Bob Helm?
““When the judgment shall sit, and the books shall be opened, and every man shall be judged according to the things written in the books, then the tables of stone, hidden by God until that day, will be presented before the world as the standard of righteousness. Then men and women will see that the prerequisite of their salvation is obedience to the perfect law of God. None will find excuse for sin. By the righteous principles of that law, men will receive their sentence of life or of death.”
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{RH, January 28, 1909 par. 18}
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Sure I can Bill. It’s just like comparing Paul with James. Grace is never an excuse for sin. On the contrary, while grace brings complete forgiveness, it also provides the power to stop sinning – because when we come face to face with the matchless love of Christ, it breaks our hearts and brings forth true love for Him. And love is expressed in obedience (John 14:15). Unless this loving obedience is present, saving faith is absent. It’s as simple as that! Or as James puts it, “Faith without works is dead.” (James 2:26) We are justified forensically by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone (Romans 3:19-28; Ephesians 2:8-9). But we are justified evidentially by good works (James 2:20-26). So certainly obedience to the perfect law of God is a prerequisite for salvation. It is the outward proof that faith in Christ is real. Therefore, I gladly affirm all the statements about obedience from Ellen White that you have posted above. This is precisely what I believe!
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