Pauluc: Faith here–the one you directed your remark to earlier to …

Comment on WASC Reviews LSU’s Accreditation by Faith.


Faith here–the one you directed your remark to earlier to open the door to the opportunity to post the above statement. (Though why you felt you needed to use such a ploy is beyond me.)

Apparently you are one of the “progressives” and, it wouldn’t surprise me if you were one of the professors.

In the name of “academic freedom” you seem to be prepared to concede any and all of the principles that the SDA church is founded upon like they have no value. Well, here’s a flash for you: these principles were a gift from God Himself, and are to be used in every aspect of our lives–including education.

“…one has to understand that a University is a collection of independent scholars that are a source of new knowledge and understanding and that academic tradition cannot exist without the ability to pursue new ideas and understanding in any field; ie academic freedom.”

As the professors are in the employ of the SDA church it is their bounden duty to uphold the principles of their employer–not subversively teach the opposite. They don’t have the right to decide for the whole church what is acceptable and what is not–they are not independant scholars. And what makes a “scholar” anyway? They are only people who have imbibed information from someone else. They are not God-inspired, unless they learned at His feet. So, unlike so many people around the universities, I don’t consider them a bit better than any of the rest of us. As SDA Christians, we have a higher standard; God is to be our source of all knowledge, not some pompous, self-inflated graduated student of the world that has slurped up worldly knowledge and now thinks they are like some demi-god who knows it all.

Anyone who believes in evolution in any form (TE included) is greatly deceived. It does not fit the character of God in any way, shape, or form. It limits His power, and deprives Him of the glory and honor He so richly deserves. Obviously, as any thinking Christian can see, this fits into Satan’s agenda. For millenia he has tried to take away the honor and glory from God–and evolution is a marvelous way to do just that.

You criticize us on this site because you think we have no right to limit your definition of “academic freedom”. If you want the freedom to believe a lie–you have it–God gave it to you. However, He does not give you the freedom to teach this lie within the church institution that He established. If you want to teach it (or have it taught to you), go to the public universities who teach it ad nauseum.

I notice that the people who come on this site touting “academic freedom” usually show themselves to be worshiping education and self rather than God. They give no glory to Him as their Creator. They care not what He wants. They feel free to make all judgment calls without reference to God or His church. Apparently they feel they are more qualified by their vast education to make the decisions themselves. They seem to feel they are smarter than God Himself. They look down their noses at the general membership of the SDA church because we are apparently (to them) not intelligent enough to understand or know what is really going on. They seem to be filled with self.

These qualities are so obviously anti-Christian, that it leaves one to wonder why they want anything to do with a church-owned and operated institution in the first place. Anyone who does not subscribe to SDA standards and principles is certainly free to go elsewhere. They are NOT free to attempt to change our church from the inside out.

I notice that there is much disdain for the idea of a Bible college among these same people. Yet that is what our institutions started out to be. Those involved in these institutions are now so anxious to pattern our institutions (and themselves, for that matter) after the world, that they want to hijack them out from under the church (that they also apparently disdain.) You do realize that is stealing, don’t you? And theft comes with penalties both on this earth and the next.

The institutions belong to the church–not the faculty, employees, board members, or administrators. Nor do these people have any right to do as they please, without reference to the church, in the discharge of the duties they accepted on behalf of the church.

You want academic freedom? Try getting it at any public college–even they have their limits. I daresay if you tried to teach Creation at a public university, you would soon see just how much academic freedom you really have there. I happen to know that you are not allowed to mention God in public colleges and universities, yet there is no problem with freely discussing spiritualism–and, in truth, it is often taught as bona fide courses within these institutions. Nowadays it is unsafe for our youth to attend these places–and now you want to make our institutions just as unsafe in the name of academic freedom? Please.

Just for the record–the board has a right to uphold the principles of the church–not provide the professors the right to undermine them.

Faith Also Commented

WASC Reviews LSU’s Accreditation
And round and round we go.

Professor Kent and Pauluc et al continue to try to force us all to admit to blind faith as the reason for our belief in Creation, and Sean, bless him, conintues to offer proofs for Creation because he knows that there are evidences of the Creator in Creation and we don’t have to take it all on “blind” faith. So…what is behind all this constant strife?

Here’s how I see it.

The professors and other like-minded individuals want us to claim blind faith because then they think they can put Creation into a little box called “Religion” and separate it from the box called “Science” (that’s their opinion, not mine.) This is a vain quest, because it can’t be done. You cannot separate the Creator from His science. You cannot, with any integrity, separate your religion from any part of your life. The only possible reason to try to do this is so you can put forth “proofs” propounded by mere men that don’t mesh with the Bible. This is being double minded…trying to serve God and man…which, of course is, in reality, not serving God at all, because you are basically calling Him a liar.

Don’t you realize that Satan is a masterful deceiver? Don’t you think he can manipulate the evidence to make you draw false conclusions from it? Don’t you realize that there is a perfectly good explanation for it all if it is seen in the correct light?

You see, this is where I feel that some SDA scientists lose their credibility. They have been faced with arguments that may, on the surface, prove evolution. So they begin to question God instead of questioning the evolutionists. Just the fact that if you look at the whole picture you can see that the world is getting worse and worse instead of better and better blows the whole theory of evolution right out of the water.

And why do our SDA scientists go to the world for their wisdom when we have the Bible and SOP to guide us? They are looking for worldly acceptance and acclaim, that’s why. They don’t want to be seen as the “lunatic fringe” who believe in God. They can’t tolerate the jeering of the worldly “scientists.” They perceive that as undermining their credibility and dignity as professional scientists. Well in actual fact, they lose their credibility as both Christians and scientists when they try to marry truth with error.

This is why Professor Kent’s claim to believe in Creation as stated in the Bible is not taken seriously. How can it be when he tries to claim there are no evidences to support Creation? That is simply not true. Sean can, and has, presented many evidences to support Creation. And there are many others out there like Sean that understand the significance of these evidences.

Of course the typical response from the “scientists” is that those who claim there is evidence for Creation are “uneducated”, “ignorant” people who “don’t understand scientific principles.” Yet these are the very people who claim that evolution, an unscientific and unprovable theory, is the answer to human origins. This is unfathomably faulty logic. There is no valid reason why SDA scientists should be promoting evolution in any of its forms.

While I know that there are aspects of God and His Creation that are a mystery to us at this point, and that must be taken on faith, we are not called to base our beliefs on “blind” faith. We have every reason to believe that God speaks the truth to us in His word and that we can rely on His veracity 100% whether or not we have concrete proof that what He claims is true. We have seen, and are seeing daily, prophecies come true. It is absolutely amazing that He could give Nebuchadnezzar a dream that accurately shows the world’s kingdoms right to the end of time. And it has all come to pass as predicted. That in itself should inspire complete confidence in His Word.

So, what it all boils down to is this: Professor Kent and Pauluc, who claim to have faith in God’s Word actually undermine it and Sean, who claims to have no blind faith, actually upholds the faith. Kind of funny, isn’t it?

Happy Sabbath everyone.

WASC Reviews LSU’s Accreditation
Prof Kent: “it just might be a good idea to be more tentative when you declare you know with certainty someone’s mind and soul”

Kent to me: “You have reached a conclusion based on nothing but presumption, prejudice, ignorance, and malice.”

Practice what you preach, Kent. Or does the first quote only apply to you?

Apology: IF I misunderstood your post–I am truly sorry. Perhaps you could make yourself a little clearer one day. You wonder why everyone has a hard time trying to understand your stance on this issue, but if you were less critical to Educate Truth and the Creation supporters on this site, then perhaps we would be able to figure out what you actually do stand for. You keep saying you repeat your position over and over, but then you say stuff that sounds like you are attacking creation. Personally, I give up on you.

I stand for Creation as recorded in the Bible. Plain and simple. I don’t entirely agree with Sean, but I don’t entirely disagree with him either. I don’t take issue with proofs for Creation just because the scientific community does. (which is one area where you run into grief)

I do try to stand for truth, but I don’t try to make it personal and I don’t want to hurt anyone. If I do, I am sorry, but truth is of utmost importance.

Perhaps, PK, we can leave it right there and quit the clash of the personalities. Perhaps you could be a litte more charitable to me as well.

WASC Reviews LSU’s Accreditation
So, all the little scientists met and decided God doesn’t know what He is talking about in His Word? (The only eye-witness account in existance, BTW.) Is that what you are saying, PK? Just another step down on the Heresy Ladder to Hell?

If the SDA scientists can’t meet and confirm a strong faith in God’s Word and Creation, regardless what the world throws at them, then they have failed miserably. If they have to have confidentiality and closed meetings, then something isn’t quite kosher, is it?

How sad this must make God feel.

Recent Comments by Faith

Changing the Wording of Adventist Fundamental Belief #6 on Creation
And you are correct, Sean, PK must consider where his influence is going–for God or against Him.

Southern Adventist University opens Origins Exhibit
Mr Taylor,

After reading your comment above, I must say PK isn’t the only one in that boat.I would make some comment as to how I really feel about you, but I know Sean will only delete it and you won’t benefit from my insight anyway–seeing as Sean is more concerned about other people’s feelings than you seem to be.

How you have the nerve to come to this website and call us all a bunch of morons (which is really what you are doing) is beyond me. You and your cronies are the ones drowning in error. Anyone who dares to accept man’s opinions over the Bible or SOP isn’t to be trusted to define truth for anyone.

Too straight-forward in my comment? Trust me, I have restrained myself admirably. If you only knew….

Southern Adventist University opens Origins Exhibit
Further to my comment on skeptism and our professors, I’ve got to tell you that I found Prof Kent to be extremely annoying in his comments on EGW. He seems to think that she is an embarrassment to the church when she speaks on Science.

Personally I find people who dis her to be the embarrassment to the church. I really don’t see how they dare to contradict and mock God’s prophet. By doing this they undermine a lot of our church’s beliefs to outsiders as well as church members. God will hold them accountable for that.

Furthermore, David’s unpublished manuscript plus other books I have read on archaeology have reported skeletons of the type that EGW mentions. Also found were artifacts such as huge iron bedsteads made for and buried with kings of huge stature.

Just because you haven’t done your research, PK, don’t jump to the conclusion the evidence isn’t there. It’s there, all right, and you make yourself look a little foolish for not knowing about it.

Southern Adventist University opens Origins Exhibit
David Read said:

“Ellen White’s statements about larger antediluvian life forms are well attested with regard to many different types of flora and fauna. They’re not even controversial…

Hi David,

As you know, I took advantage of your kind offer and I read your manuscript as well as I purchased 3 of your books, one for me, one for my sisters, and one for the church library. It took me a week to finish the book, and I and my sisters are very impressed with it. My one sister calls it “one incredible book”. It has answered a lot of the questions we had on the subject of evolution vs creation science, and, yes, I believe we (you and I and my sisters) are on the same page in our beliefs. We have immensely enjoyed discussing the various aspects of the subject as we read. It makes perfect sense to us.

I still have a couple of questions–new ones will probably always keep popping up–but I would say you have covered the subject admirably. Thanks so much for this book.

I agree with Elder Wilson, this is something every Adventist should read. In my opinion it should be used as required reading for science courses. It is exactly the way I would want science courses in the universities to treat the Creation/evolution debate in the classroom. And if the professors at LSU and the other SDA institutions would do this we wouldn’t be constantly losing our young people and, for that matter, our professors, to skeptisism.

Thank God someone has the courage to publish the truth and expose error.

God Bless you, David.

Southern Adventist University opens Origins Exhibit
Hi Sean and Bill,

I am wondering if the difference of opinion here is due to varying definitions of the word ‘science’. As we all know there is true science and there is worldly psuedo-science.

If Bill’s understanding of ‘science’ in this case is actually worldly psuedo-science, then he is correct in not wanting any truth to be compromised with it.

From Sean’s post, I believe he is referring to true science, which is definitely part of our beliefs on origins and is well supported by the Bible and SOP, as Sean admirably demonstrated.

Not having seen the exhibit myself, I cannot comment on whether or not they are mixing psuedo-science into it. (Perhaps a few of you posters out there can see the exhibit and report back to us.) Knowing the general philosophy of SAU, I would be surprised if they did.

Their goal is “to provide scientific evidence that substantiates the Bible’s account of creation.” Sounds good to me.
They also say: “Religion and science don’t need to be at odds.” And that is true when you are referring to true science, which I believe they are.

However, I do understand Bill’s reaction in that these days when people use the word ‘science’ without qualification it so often means evolutionary pseudoscience, that we tend to be suspicious.

I think, Bill, that in this case we don’t need to worry. I believe SAU’s heart is in the right place and I am so glad that at least one of our institutions is willing to stand up and be counted on the side of Creation, even though they will probably draw much criticism from the ‘scientific’ community as well as from the TEs in their own church.

God bless them for their fidelity to Him. And may God strengthen them to meet the onslaught that is most likely to follow, is my prayer for them.