Comment on For real education reform, take a cue from the Adventists by Johnny Vance.
@Professor Kent: Apostasy usually comes from the top-down, and reformation and revival usually comes from the bottom-up. By the way, we are the church. I’m sure you knew that though.
I’m shocked that you’re ignoring all the efforts from students and others throughout the years. These efforts only work if you’re working with people who are sincerely seeking to represent the Lord and do what’s right. These people’s resistance through the years and their disregard for diplomatic and “respect”ful efforts have been disdained with contempt. This is open rebellion. You cannot diplomatically resolve these things when the other party is bent on rebellion. I fail to see even one hint that would label them as anything other than that. It’s simply just that–a rebellion. Keep in mind the supernatural power behind this rebellion…
I can tell you first-hand that students, parents and even some professors have gone about this very professionally, respectfully and lovingly for many years. Does the laity have no right to demand that their church institutions refrain from heresy and apostasy? Do you want God Himself to come down and purge His church? If some in leadership are in apostasy or are simply negligent, are we not responsible if we sit on our hands for fear of offending someone?
You ignored all the Biblical examples and examples from Ellen White that illustrate how to deal with public sins that affect the prosperity and welfare of the church. Taking care of problems is uncomfortable. But it must be done. When is enough, enough for you? I’m not seeing any solutions from you, except for complaining about those who dare call for accountability and reform. Is calling sin by its rightful name elitist? Your only solutions are the same niceties that have been ignored.
God has appointed you and me to spread the Gospel message. Lord knows that angels would do a better job, but He’s called us to His work. He calls out to sinners with an effort beyond our comprehension. If they reject Him continuously, they eventually seal their fate and choose of their own accord to be lost. In this controversy, what would seal the fate of those in rebellion before they can be asked to leave? These are sincere questions. I’m open to correction if you can convince me through Scripture and inspired counsel AND the God-given reasoning abilities to apply those timeless principles.
Johnny Vance Also Commented
For real education reform, take a cue from the Adventists
@Eddie: I appreciate your response. It seems to be heart-felt. I’ll admit that I cringe at having to address these issues in a public forum. Would you feel differently if for the mere sake of transparency videos, letters/emails, syllabi and the such were posted on here with no commentary to prevent the appearance of public criticism? Maybe the church needs to see how ugly and widespread the cancer really is. But I take issue with your definition of criticism in this case. There’s criticism of people for the sake of envy and resentment, etc., and then there’s criticism of wrong or good actions (constructive).
I just wonder how you propose to address the issue without considering the people behind the problem? Surely any denunciation of the error will be labeled character assasination. But this isn’t necessarily so. Note how Paul and other apostles publicly “criticized” those spreading error within their ranks. I know you love Dr. Ness, and I also believe he’s a good guy. But we cannot allow the open teaching of error because we like the guy. This is a tough issue to wrestle with, and my heart sinks for these people. But truth is more precious. If we stand for truth then the Lord will bless. He’s powerful enough to correct and save Dr. Ness and anybody else who may be in error (including myself) if the heart is willing.
My brother in Christ, I think we’re both wanting to solve the problem; but we have a difference of opinion. I’m open to Biblical correction. I trust that you’re bringing this to daily prayer as you wrestle with how to fulfill your sacred role of training young people at PUC. People are praying for you all who are sincerely seeking to present the Christ of the Bible. God bless.
For real education reform, take a cue from the Adventists
@Eddie: Ok, Eddie. We can sit on our hands and keep our mouths shut, and shut our eyes and expect God to do all the work we’re supposed to be doing. Lord forbid we take care of anything unpleasant. “And all of God’s people put up with the apostasy because no prophet was sent and Jesus’ time had not yet come.” I don’t see anything of that sort in Scripture. By the way, God did send a prophet who gave us copious amounts of counsel on how to deal with these situations. You are contradicting yourself by demanding that a prophet or Jesus Himself come to put down this apostasy.
If the Master of the house left you in charge and came back to find it a chaotic mess, He’d ask: why did you not keep my house in order?
Would you respond?: I knew your statutes and commands but I wanted You to come and fix it yourself.
Brother Eddie, if you did this, you’d be found to have been a very unfaithful steward. The Master of the house has left us plenty of guidance on how to keep His house in order. Are you prepared to meet Him with excuses for knowing the “rules” of order yet doing nothing? Come on, brother. You can do better than that.
For real education reform, take a cue from the Adventists
Tell Johnny Vance that the Church functioned just fine with discipline issues prior to the internet, and that the internet isn’t the only way to work on this issue.
@Professor Kent: I’m just curious on a couple of points.
1) Does the Spectrum blog get the same criticism from you for its public and vitriolic rants against the church as Educate Truth? If not then I’d be curious to know why they get a pass.
2) If you think that Educate Truth is so bad, then why do you keep on feeding the fire by posting on it? Common sense would say that you’d shun it to prove it’s as irrelevant and as awful as you claim it to be. It’s ironic to note that you’re one of those who’s actually proving Educate Truth’s point.
3) I have yet to see you back up your accusations and rants with Biblical support. Do you just pick and choose at your convenience? There are many of us who want a better way. Please feel free to come up with a solution that will move people in a position of power to action. If not then you’re just playing ring-around-the-rosies with the devil while nothing gets done because there’s a lack of backbone in the house of God.
Recent Comments by Johnny Vance
An apology to PUC
@Scott Brizendine: Does PUC have something to hide? The church has a right to know what it’s getting for its money. I really doubt the church is happy with the product, especially after reading most of the posts from students.
@Anon: Dr. Ness’s lecture is just the tip of the iceberg concerning Adventist education. Take a few minutes to really consider the comments by professors in the class and the questions posed by students. You’ll realize that THAT is not the product of only a 50 minute lecture. This one lecture is wake up call to all. Or perhaps our schools should start recording more lectures in order to prove to you that these aren’t isolated incidents?
Like Sean said, Ellen White publicly warned parents to not send their children to the college in Battle Creek…not because kids are dumb, but because the kind of education and mentors they are exposed to is a big deal. Educators and pastors are held to a higher standard because of their influence over not just the youth, but everyone. It matters.
An apology to PUC
@Educate Truth Staff: I appreciate your candor with admitting a fault in judgment for posting the video prematurely. Whereas the church at large has every right to know what their youth are being taught, it’s best to attempt to go through proper channels to avoid the appearance of evil.
I understand that Adventist education is going through a crisis, and that there’s much frustration with church leadership for allowing things to get so out of hand.
What is the laity to do when most of the church leadership and church members appear to be asleep at their posts? Shout at them to wake up, of course. But perhaps a tap on the shoulder would have been a loud enough call to arms for PUC and Adventist education in general? I doubt it, in light of past resistance and rationalization of anti-biblical concepts by
certain elements within the church.
I strongly suspect that the problem so clearly illustrated from Dr. Ness’s lecture is just the tip of the iceberg concerning the crisis in our educational institutions. The fruits of Adventist education on most of these kids who’ve commented on here is indeed disturbing, and bodes ill for the future of the church. It’s unfortunate that it takes a video to wake people up to the realization that there’s a crisis. But even then there are those who still find excuses to dismiss the evidence.
Thank you Sean and Shane for having the courage to sound the trumpet. I hope our leaders and church members will answer the call to defend the walls, because it sure is exhausting being all alone. I want to go home soon.
An apology to PUC
@OTNT and BobRyan: Thank you for the clarification. I see where this argument is going. We will always have opportunities and hooks to hang our doubts on. I suppose you can dig for hooks and hang all the doubts you want on them. It seems like OTNT is focusing on the cup being half-empty argument.
“Have faith in the LORD your God and you will be upheld; have faith in his prophets and you will be successful.” 2 Chronicles 20:20
An apology to PUC
@OTNT_Believer: I’m just curious. What was wrong/mistaken about her visions of the planets?
Former LSU student letter reveals professor’s agenda
@Marilyn Bauer: Marilyn, you’re right. It’s about time for the next step.
