Sean, You’ve asked Dr. Wisbey to be more transparent and honest …

Comment on LSU responds to Michigan Conference by George.

Sean,

You’ve asked Dr. Wisbey to be more transparent and honest about the teaching of evolution at LSU. I’m guessing he and his advisors (and possibly some board members) believe that what he is saying is best for LSU and saying what you’re asking for would not be in the best interests of LSU.

As you know, influencing someone to admit they’re wrong and change course can be difficult. Success is higher when one makes it easy for them to admit their mistake. Setting up a website to publicly proclaim their “errors” (and related strong negative messages) tends to put one on the defensive. If influencing Dr. Wisbey is really your goal, this may not be the most effective tactic. In fact, you may have already defeated yourself. On the other hand, you might find a way to negotiate a compromise with him behind closed doors. If replacing Dr. Wisbey is your goal, then working the board the way you are may be effective. We’ll see.

In a sense Dr. Wisbey doesn’t need to directly say what you want him to say. You’ve said it for him. And the people who see things the way you do believe you, and those that see things the way he does, believe him. He may have already said, indirectly or directly, his version of this statement.

In a sense, the fact that the number of biology majors is at an all time high, in spite of this controversy, suggests he has more support among the people that (in some ways) matter the most to LSU, those sending their kids to school there.

[I have discussed these issues “behind closed doors” for over 5 years, personally, with the staff and leadership of LSU and higher levels within the Church. Others have been doing the same for much longer – for decades. Nothing was done using such methods. Last year, after my last lecture at LSU on creation, I decided that the time had finally come to try and take this issue to the Church at large. At the very least this particular effort is starting to increase transparency as to what is really taking place at LSU. If people like what LSU is offering, great! They are perfectly free to take advantage of whatever they want to buy for their children. However, those who do not appreciate the product that LSU is offering, even if these happened to be in the minority, have a right to know what they are really getting for their hard-earned dollars. The buyer always has a right to know what is really being bought. Anything less is stealing from the buyer.] – Sean Pitman

George Also Commented

LSU responds to Michigan Conference
Sean said: ‘When the institution you work for carries the name “Seventh-day Adventist Institution”, it is pretty clear who you work for. The school board doesn’t own the school and it doesn’t own the name. The name “SDA” belongs to the Church.’

It seems to me that this undermines the “do what the employer says” rationale, which I think is the explicit purpose of this website. The “do what your employer says” is clear, direct and something everyone would support.

I think your particular statement here says that LSU Biology professors should “do what the church says”. There is a difference between employer and church, strictly speaking. It appears to me LSU is saying that they ARE doing what the church says, that they are following FB6. As shown here on this website, FB6 was “watered down” to be open to exactly this, and then it passed global church approval. If you want to use the “do what the church says” rationale, it seems to me you’d need to revise FB6 first.

Using the “do what the employer says” is easier for everyone to support. The problem is that the employer (LSU administration) seems to approve of what the Biology dept is teaching. So, the next level is the board, which you are working on now. This might be successful, or it might not.

If the board does not effect the changes you want, then what options do you have? Change board membership? Change LSU administration? Is there an entity that you can appeal to that has the clear and direct authority to effect change? Does the Union have the authority to effect change (or is it only through the fact that the Union president is also the chairman of the board)? Does the GC have the clear and direct authority to effect change?


LSU responds to Michigan Conference
Sean said: I have discussed these issues “behind closed doors” for over 5 years, personally, with the staff and leadership of LSU.

Really! I did not know this. Which administrators did you talk with? What are some examples of compromise or interim steps did you propose? Or, is this an all or nothing issue where the only outcome you’ll accept is LSU doing what you ask?


LSU responds to Michigan Conference
From what I gather from the online yearbook (http://www.adventistyearbook.org/ViewAdmField.aspx?AdmFieldID=NAD), Northern CA Conference has 136 churches and 41k members and MI Conference has 164 churches and 25k members. Combined, this is 300 churches and 66k members. This is in a context of 9 unions, 58 conferences, 5243 churches, and 1100k members in NAD. After a year of effort, this sentiment is starting to get official endorsements.


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GC Votes to Revise SDA Fundamental #6 on Creation
Kevin Paulson,

So, when you say that those you disagree with (Lawrence Geraty along with the entire Spectrum/Adventist Today crowd) need to go join the Episcopalians where they belong, you chose Episcopalians because they are the least Biblically based Christian group that comes to mind?


GC Votes to Revise SDA Fundamental #6 on Creation
Kevin,

Why do you refer to Episcopalians as a better place for these men? I understand why you’d say they don’t belong in the SDA church. But is there something about the Episcopalians in particular that makes a good fit? Why not the Presbyterians, Baptists, Lutherans, or Methodists? Or did you just choose another denomination?

I guess what I’m really asking is, would one of the other denominations make a good fit for former SDAs who don’t believe in a Biblical creation?


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John D. Sproed said: God wrote the ten commandments with his own finger.

When Got wrote them with His finger, did He write the version in Exodus 20, or in Deuteronomy 5? or the Catholic Liturgy version, which Roman Catholics (half the world’s Christians) would say is God’s true intent?

And, does God expect us to keep the Sabbath rituals the way it is defined in the Bible?


Report on LSU constituency meeting
Ron Stone says: Progressives do not appeal to common sense. They appeal to “what does the modern world believe?”

It seems to me that progressives look at WHY people believe what they believe, and they see merit to other interpretations. I think they consider it quite rational. I think they think common sense is open minded and not limited to a single interpretation that does not include historical context and intent of the original author.


Dr. Geraty clarifies his “Challenge” to literal 6-day creationism
I met Dr. Geraty for the first time today. My initial impression is that he is closer theologically to Dr. Pitman than he is to many progressive Adventists. I would suggest caution in being critical of people like him. One might end up without any allies.

And, I’m reminded of something I posted here several weeks ago. We need to identify the core essentials and focus on those, and give people the freedom to choose what they want to believe on non-essentials. Historical Adventists are convinced a literal creation is essential. Progressive Adventists don’t think it is essential.

We also need to remember that the SDA church in north america is not thriving. We’re losing a lot of people every year. Educational institutions are on the edge of viability. What are we missing? What is God telling us that we’re not hearing? Maybe we need to be more open to the real world that people live in.