Dr. Ron Stone nailed it on the head when he …

Comment on EducateTruth.com promoted on 3ABN by Michael Farris.

Dr. Ron Stone nailed it on the head when he stated:

Sean is wrong in his inability to see that “judgement” of words, actions, etc. is part of a Christians DUTY–when based on the Word of God.

I concede that there are some theological issues with shades of gray, which should not be used as a litmus test for orthodoxy. Furthermore, I too am weary of creeds or doctrines set in theological concrete that would castigate men and women as heretics. For example, the nature and relationship of the Godhead should never have been made a creed. But it has and men have been burned at the stake for not subscribing to the doctrine of God as set forth by the controlling bishops at the Council of Nicea.

Notwithstanding this, the principle of Isaiah 8:20 still holds true: “To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word it is because there is no light in them” (NKJV). In other words, there are also issues that ARE black and white. And the creation story is one of them. The law itself and the record/history in the law is too clear to pretend otherwise. God created the earth in six days and rested on the seventh. We are not to take the philosophical mandates of any so-called science because it is backed by great men who hold important positions. And most pretentiously of all, to place their scientific constructs above the Scriptures because of their prestige in this world. I have no doubt that the arguments the antediluvians made against Noah’s preaching of a coming flood, were more dazzling than anything we can imagine. In fact, those antediluvians would fall on the ground in laughter or look at each other blinking as they contemplated the utter ignorance espoused by our supposed learned and great men, men who believe that a banana, elephant, mosquito, monkey, and human have one common ancestor. They themselves saw the angel with the flaming sword standing at the Garden of Eden. Their minds were far superior to ours; they could never have been lulled by the utter ignorance of evolutionary science.

A Christian starts with a belief in a Creator, and particularly the Creator of the Holy Bible. One CANNOT hold to theistic evolution without ignoring the most plain teaching of the Bible. This is why Ellen White could write: “In the creation of the earth, God was not indebted to preexisting matter. ‘He spoke and it was; . . . He commanded and it stood fast.’ Psalm 33:9” (Ministry of Healing 414). Evolution is contrary to the Scriptures. For any so-called Seventh-day Adventist to be ascribing to the fables of Darwinism (although this fable actually precedes Darwin) is in gross error. While nobody has the authority to sentence someone to hell, it is clear that God-fearing saints, who trembles at the Scriptures, have the duty and commission to discern between truth and error and those who cling to it. Those who cling to idolatry have the option to repent or be disfellowshipped. If anyone doubts this, then prove me wrong from the Scriptures. Let us compare Scripture with Scripture and see whose view will stand.

Those who call themselves SDAs and subscribe to theistic evolution have forsaken the law of God. As the psalmist declared: “Indignation has taken hold of me Because of the wicked, who forsake Your law” (Psalm 119:53 NKJV). We have the right to be indignant over this apostasy. The apostle Paul minced no words in his letter to the Galatians when men arose from among them, corrupting the truth of the Gospel (Galatians 1:6-10; 5:11-12).

The message that I’m getting from Dr. Sean Pitman is not biblical, but reflects the dangers of spiritualism, which comes at us in the name of love and non-judgmentalism. It forsakes the plain duty to correct, rebuke, and to even remove from among us those who cling to idolatry. Dr. Sean Pitman’s stance leads to the Spirit spoken of in Deuteronomy 12:8: “You shall not at all do as we are doing here today–every man doing whatever is right in his own eyes” (NKJV). While I’m not against reason, I am against any reason that exalts itself against a knowledge of God, as found in his Word. It is written: “Trust in the LORD with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding” (Proverbs 3:5 NKJV). When so-called SDAs are espousing theistic evolution they are not trusting the LORD, no, they are leaning on their own understanding (and that of infidels).

The Law of God is clear. Unfortunately, most spend very little time in it. We have followed the paths of dispensationalist’s in ignoring the books of the Law and Prophets. Yet so plain is the torah that according to Isaiah 8:20 the law helps us discern between truth and error. This is why the father-in-law of Moses said:

“And you shall teach them the statutes and the laws, and show them the way in which they must walk and the work they must do. Moreover you shall select from all the people able men, such as fear God, men of truth, hating covetousness; and place such over them to be rulers of thousands, rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens. And let them judge the people at all times. Then it will be that every great matter they shall bring to you, but every small matter they themselves shall judge…” (Exodus 18:20-22 NKJV).

They were able to judge all such matters relating to righteousness and unrighteousness, those who were wicked and those who were obedient in the camp of Israel. Why? Because they had the living oracles of God! And here we are with the living oracles of God and we have in our midst men teaching fables. Sadly, we also have those, who are supposedly standing for the truth, telling us we can’t judge and that we should be more understanding. This is a sign of the times. Let us be weary of this specious view about love and heed Ellen White’s warning about the deceptions of spiritualism (which include the sciences of the mind and evolution):

“While it formerly denounced the Christ and the Bible, it now professes to accept both. But the Bible is interpreted in a manner that is pleasing to the unrenewed heart, while its solemn and vital truths are made of no effect. Love is dwelt upon as the chief attribute of God, but it is degraded to a weak sentimentalism, making little distinction between good and evil. God’s justice, His denunciations of sin, the requirements of His holy law, are all kept out of sight. The people are taught to regard the Decalogue as a dead letter. Pleasing, bewitching fables captivate the senses and lead men to reject the Bible as the foundation of their faith. Christ is as verily denied as before; but Satan has so blinded the eyes of the people that the deception is not discerned” (Great Controversy 558).

Ellen White clearly condemned the spurious doctrines Evolution and its essential ingredient from geologists, that the earth is older than the biblical record. She made it clear that these beliefs are wicked and the products of infidels: “It makes indefinite and obscure that which He has made very plain. It is infidelity in its most insidious and hence most dangerous form; its real character is so disguised that it is held and taught my many who profess to believe in the Bible” (PP 111).

Those who suggest that we need to stop being judgmental about this matter or the people who teach these this infidelity in our church (the Seventh-day Adventist church) are doing the work of the enemy. It is cowardice and wicked and demonic. There is a biblical method in correcting those who err from the truth. And for those who continue to err from the truth and boldly propagate it in our church, we have a duty to remove them from our fellowship. And moreover, if someone has a contention over this matter, it must be proven from Scripture. In other words, just as we accept the Sabbath and the state of man in death from investigation of the Bible, so also must we accept or reject evolutionary theory from an investigation of Scripture. This issue is too plain, however. The doctrines of an old earth, which is key to the philosophy of Evolution is “infidelity in its most insidious and hence most dangerous form.”

Michael Farris Also Commented

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Shannon:

Michael: When you become an apostle or prophet–you can write letters–long ones– of discipline with strong language even as necessary.

The idea that I cannot write long and reasoned messages with words of rebuke because I am not a prophet is not biblical. Please give me an “it is written” if your going to make such a statement. Respectfully, it is statements like this that lead me to the unpleasant remark of being “a poor bible student.” Since you mentioned holding church office: I do hold the office of a deacon and accordingly, I am supposed to be able to instruct others in the Word of God, among other things. Perhaps you should reread the message that Stephen gave in Acts 7:1-60. He was a deacon by the way. If we utilize your reasoning then he was overstepping his bounds. The idea that a lay person is not permitted to correct or rebuke or write long letters is absurd.

Do you think the evolutionists will go any easier on you? Especially if you are trying to tell them they are of the devil.

When I debate with evolutionists (atheists) I don’t waste my time telling them they are ignorant of the Scriptures or sharing with them Ellen White statements. The Word of God has already declared them a “fool” (Psalm 14:1). For me to argue with such persons in the manner I have done on this link is equivalent to casting pearl before swine (Matthew 7:6). You are reducing my arguments to trifle pettiness with this question. The issue we are dealing with on this blog relates to Seventh-Day Adventist in leadership positions.

Your quote of Timothy with exposure of sin before the church to reduce the chance of having it happen again–how would you go about that if you were in charge.

If something is done publicly and openly it must be addressed publicly and openly (Galatians 2:11-14). If something is done privately then it must be a private matter, unless the person refuses to turn from their wickedness. The biblical mandate given by Jesus in Matthew 18:15-20 is in in accordance with the law (Deut. 17:6; 19:15). Jesus’ upholding of the law about how there must be two or three witness to judge a matter is apropos to our current conversation.

First of all, they were not to judge a case based on their emotions or with concerns over how the other person may feel. They had to judge the matter in accordance with the oracles of God. In fact, the judgments that God gave to Moses show that He expects no partiality as the 9th commandment makes clear (Exodus 20:16). They (judgments) were given to Israel so they could make righteous judgments. For example: “You shall not circulate a false report. Do not put your hand with the wicked to be an unrighteous witness” (Exodus 23:1 NKJV). God loathed partiality because it would “pervert justice” (i.e the judgments; Exodus 23:2,6 NKJV). Anyone who is going to help determine a matter must know the Scriptures. This is why Paul told Timothy:

“But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. But you must continue in in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from who you have learned them, and that from childhood you have know the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus” (2 Tim. 3:13-15).

The only way Timothy would be able to identify “evil men and impostors” is through a knowledge of the Scriptures. It is the same today. This responsibility may be unpleasant, but as Ellen White said: “True love seeks first the honor of God and the salvation of souls. Those who have this love will not evade the truth to save themselves from the unpleasant results of plain speaking. When souls are in peril, God’s ministers will not consider self, but will speak the word given them to speak, refusing to excuse or palliate sin” (PK 141-142)


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T.R. Perenich:

Your defense was solid. Thank your for taking the time to reason from the Scriptures and for doing so with force of mind. Justin Robinson, I also appreciate your stance as well. It is good to know there are other like-minded brothers in the church.

Blessings,
Michael


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Shannon:

Michael: You have no idea who I am or what my education is. The internet on a discussion site is no place for long explanations and arguments. Basic quotes and beliefs are simple for explanation or understanding. More will not get the job done in this format. Making judgments as to education and ignorance is usually comparative and not too accurate. My statements were made on the other hand off of your ongoing aggressive and demeaning use of wordage in our discussion and discussion with others that don’t happen to agree with you.

You may find that the world will all be much less smart that you if you use agreement with you as the criteria. There are a lot of people that use this as a criteria by the way and I have been treated badly by many of them. Some of them are probably much smarter that you and me put together. Just because of that does not make them right or any more believable.

Respect truly comes as a result of the ability to be respected.

You yourself made subtle accusations about me and my character based upon what I’ve written. This would be unobjectionable, if you pointed out where I’m demeaning people and being “mean spirited.” As it stands, your above response is childish and now I feel bad for engaging you in this dialog. It would be wise to avoid calling a persons name out, and contradicting them, if you do not want to be challenged by them. I think any unbiased reader who as read all my responses would say that I have strong opinions, yes, but that I’m basing them on the Scriptures.

I am not concerned about your education. I do not equate knowledge with education. Titles and accolades mean nothing to me. You could have a Ph.D and it would not matter to me. The wisdom of this world is foolishness to God.

Next, If you don’t believe the internet is a place to make “long explanations” and “arguments” then why are you on this blog? And why are you engaging me in this debate? Conversely, I disagree with you and believe the internet is an excellent place for debate and the exchange of ideas. In case you’re unaware, almost all the arguments Ellen White made, were by way of letter. Most of the letters in the NT are written in defense of a position(s) and with very strong censorious words; they are also sometimes written through “long explanations,” to borrow your complaint about my messages. I have not set out to insult anyone. I simply pointed out your estimations of me and then fairly gave mine of you (to avoid a straw man attack upon you). However, you left out my caveat, wherein I stated that we both have much to learn. And this is true. I don’t think I know it all Shannon. In almost every message I’ve written, I have said I’m open to correction and reasoning from the Scriptures. This is what Protestant Christians do (compare Scripture with Scripture).

Finally, I’m sorry for anyway that I may have offended you. If you point out where I offended you in my above messages, then I will be able to see more clearly where you are coming from. I have no intention of hurting you or anyone else’s feelings on this blog.

It is written: “Bleased are the peacemakers for they shall be called sons of God” (Matthew 5:9 NKJV).

Sincerely,
Michael