PK 1: “Where is your “abundant proof?” Give us ONE …

Comment on The Reptile King by Faith.

PK 1: “Where is your “abundant proof?” Give us ONE PIECE OF EVIDENCE, Faith, that an LSU Biologist has taught students this past 1.5 years that theistic evolution is the best explanation for life on this planet. JUST ONE PIECE OF EVIDENCE. I haven’t seen the evidence, and I don’t believe you or any other reader here has.”

PK 2: “Look, I have conceded in other threads here at ET and at Spectrum that there is good evidence some of the faculty (including several retired individuals) were at times disrespectful toward the SDA position and students that defended it. This has been confirmed by some of my private sources. I think those individuals who disrespected the Church’s position on origins deserved correction, though in a manner strictly in harmony with Christ’s counsel in Matthew 18, and NOT using Educate Truth’s tactics of cyberharrassment and cyberbullying.”

Professor Kent–look at the two above quotations from the two postings you have recently put up. First you claim there isn’t a shred of evidence of wrong-doing and then you say you have admitted there is such evidence. Do you wonder why people get confused with your position?

Now to address quote #1:

I have seen the postings of the then current students of Professor Brantley telling us what a group of ignorant morons (my words–but the spirit is there) we are to believe in Creation. This is a student who graduated in 2011, from what I understand. That, to me, is proof that the problem is not fixed. I heard the tape which the famous four posted in error. Their attitudes show me that they have not changed in their beliefs, yet they retained their positions to that point–certainly within the 1.5 years you allow. That also leads me to believe that the problem has not been fixed. The very fact that evolution-believing professors are employed by the school leads me to believe that the problem has not been fixed. You don’t put the fox in charge of the hen-house and expect a full count of chickens at the end of the day. These are abundant proofs as far as I am concerned–certainly enough to call for action.

As to quote #2:
You seem to think we should all just believe the school public relations releases because they say so. Yet, this is the school that lied and covered up and refused to take action concerning this whole issue for decades. In order to regain any credibility in the eyes of the church, something drastic like hiring professors who actually believe in the priniciples of the SDA church and are willing to teach such is needed. I have not seen the personnel change that is necessary. Case in point the above article on the professor and the revelation that he eats pork, no less, in direct opposition to the standards taught by the Bible and the church(good example there for the student body) and this information:
“Dr. Grismer believes and teaches that living things on this planet have existed and evolved over billions of years through a process that involved the death and untold suffering of sentient creatures through countless generations. He teaches that modern birds evolved from dinosaurs and that whales evolved from land-dwelling mammals, etc… all in line with mainstream evolutionary thinking (see slide from one of Dr. Grismer’s LSU class lectures below).” Since no one–not even you–denies this to be the truth, I take this as evidence. That a person of this calibre is teaching in an SDA institution is a travesty and this needs to be remedied.

As to the “cyberbullying” you keep referring to, (and I have seen plenty of it from you) it is not cyberbullying to report the facts and expect it to be fixed. They are our tithes and offerings that go to help support these institutions. As members of the church, it is our right to demand that the institutions we founded and maintain teach our beliefs. If that upsets the rebellious clique that exists in the LSU biology and religion departments, then these individuals are in the wrong job. They should have enough intregrity to go teach where evolution is embraced–it should never be embraced by, or find sanctuary in, our institutions.

And, tell me Professor Kent, how long would this continue on if Educate Truth had not lanced this boil full of pus here on the internet? I believe the founders had already tried to get satisfaction from direct communication with LSU and were totally ignored. It is too bad it had to come to this, but LSU is directly responsible for it. If they had done something about it when it was brought to their attention, this would not have been necessary. I can only draw the conclusion that they did nothing because the powers that be were complicit with this devious practice. I applaud Sean and Shane for having the courage to call out this institution for its error. And I believe anyone who is really interested in seeing truth practiced and taught by LSU or any other institution would feel the same as I do.

I am now bracing for your next attack. 🙂

Faith Also Commented

The Reptile King
Charles: Thank you for the quotations from EG White regarding the 6,000 years. Please permit me to add one more–perhaps the most important of all. This passage is from The Great Controversy, Chapter 41 “The Desolation of the Earth”, page 656:

“For six thousand years the great controversy has been in progress; the Son of God and His heavenly messengers have been in conflict with the power of the evil one, to warn, enlighten, and save the children of men. Now all have made their decisions; the wicked have fully united with Satan in his warfare against God. The time has come for God to vindicate the authority of His downtrodden law. Now the controversy is not alone with Satan, but with men. “The Lord hath a controversy with the nations;” “He will give them that are wicked to the sword.””

Please note that this is pronounced AT THE TIME OF THE SECOND COMING. What does that tell us about the amount of time we have left to prepare? We are in the millenium of the second coming. And we are told that the work will be cut short for the sake of God’s people or they would be destroyed from off the earth.

You evolutionary scientists out there are all wrong. I don’t even concede to 10,000 years. This earth is 6,000 years old. God gave these messages to Ellen White. He was there at Creation. He Created this earth and HE KNOWS the age of it. He doesn’t have to guess by the use of ice rings or layers of the earth or any other trumped up imaginings of man. He knows. He said repeatedly 6,000 years. Wake up, people. We stand in the last days of this earth. It is time to cleanse ourselves from all unrighteousness (we have to do our part–we cannot do God’s part) and get ready for that solemn and wonderful event–His return to the planet He made. Don’t let stubborness or the false evidences of the scientific community blind you to this. Your soul is in peril. And so are the souls of the youth in the classrooms. There is no time for politics or for subtle deceptions to work in this situation. Our church needs to be purified and we all need to be purified. Repent–for the time is short.

The Reptile King
Prof Kent: “Faith, it is very difficult to converse with someone who, after I say I believe “A” rather than “B,” responds by asking why I believe in “B” and declaring that I make no sense. You are not the only one persists in this kind of game.”

First of all, this isn’t a game, and any erroneous belief here on this site is your own fault. In your postings you seem to contradict all that you have “plainly” stated are your beliefs. What are the rest of us supposed to believe?

For example that little teaser concerning your drinking of alcohol. It looks to me like you purposely withheld the details of that incident so anyone reading would be misled by it. This, so that someone would post a message just exactly like Martha did, so that you could chastise us all for jumping to conclusions. Looks like a set-up to me.

Second, I used that little, but most important, word IF. Read my reply again and maybe you can see what I meant by that question.

If you are going to contradict yourself all the time, then don’t be surprised when people are confused by it and keep asking you to re-state your beliefs.

The Reptile King
Prof Kent:

In upholding TE you are upholding the sin and not just the sinner. It is a sin to rob God of the glory He so richly deserves. It is a sin to use your influence to make sin look anything less than sin; by so-doing you could lead others astray.

If, as you say, you are in total agreement with the principles of the SDA church, why do you keep arguing against those of us who are doing our best to uphold them? You should be with us, not against us. That is why so many people see you as being duplicitous on this site. If you believe evolution is truth, why say you believe in Creation? If you believe in Creation, why wield the sword against us who correctly want to see it taught in SDA schools? You make no sense.

There has been some plain speaking on this site–I believe the occasion calls for it–and you have done plenty of it yourself.

I simply do not understand you.

Recent Comments by Faith

Changing the Wording of Adventist Fundamental Belief #6 on Creation
And you are correct, Sean, PK must consider where his influence is going–for God or against Him.

Southern Adventist University opens Origins Exhibit
Mr Taylor,

After reading your comment above, I must say PK isn’t the only one in that boat.I would make some comment as to how I really feel about you, but I know Sean will only delete it and you won’t benefit from my insight anyway–seeing as Sean is more concerned about other people’s feelings than you seem to be.

How you have the nerve to come to this website and call us all a bunch of morons (which is really what you are doing) is beyond me. You and your cronies are the ones drowning in error. Anyone who dares to accept man’s opinions over the Bible or SOP isn’t to be trusted to define truth for anyone.

Too straight-forward in my comment? Trust me, I have restrained myself admirably. If you only knew….

Southern Adventist University opens Origins Exhibit
Further to my comment on skeptism and our professors, I’ve got to tell you that I found Prof Kent to be extremely annoying in his comments on EGW. He seems to think that she is an embarrassment to the church when she speaks on Science.

Personally I find people who dis her to be the embarrassment to the church. I really don’t see how they dare to contradict and mock God’s prophet. By doing this they undermine a lot of our church’s beliefs to outsiders as well as church members. God will hold them accountable for that.

Furthermore, David’s unpublished manuscript plus other books I have read on archaeology have reported skeletons of the type that EGW mentions. Also found were artifacts such as huge iron bedsteads made for and buried with kings of huge stature.

Just because you haven’t done your research, PK, don’t jump to the conclusion the evidence isn’t there. It’s there, all right, and you make yourself look a little foolish for not knowing about it.

Southern Adventist University opens Origins Exhibit
David Read said:

“Ellen White’s statements about larger antediluvian life forms are well attested with regard to many different types of flora and fauna. They’re not even controversial…

Hi David,

As you know, I took advantage of your kind offer and I read your manuscript as well as I purchased 3 of your books, one for me, one for my sisters, and one for the church library. It took me a week to finish the book, and I and my sisters are very impressed with it. My one sister calls it “one incredible book”. It has answered a lot of the questions we had on the subject of evolution vs creation science, and, yes, I believe we (you and I and my sisters) are on the same page in our beliefs. We have immensely enjoyed discussing the various aspects of the subject as we read. It makes perfect sense to us.

I still have a couple of questions–new ones will probably always keep popping up–but I would say you have covered the subject admirably. Thanks so much for this book.

I agree with Elder Wilson, this is something every Adventist should read. In my opinion it should be used as required reading for science courses. It is exactly the way I would want science courses in the universities to treat the Creation/evolution debate in the classroom. And if the professors at LSU and the other SDA institutions would do this we wouldn’t be constantly losing our young people and, for that matter, our professors, to skeptisism.

Thank God someone has the courage to publish the truth and expose error.

God Bless you, David.

Southern Adventist University opens Origins Exhibit
Hi Sean and Bill,

I am wondering if the difference of opinion here is due to varying definitions of the word ‘science’. As we all know there is true science and there is worldly psuedo-science.

If Bill’s understanding of ‘science’ in this case is actually worldly psuedo-science, then he is correct in not wanting any truth to be compromised with it.

From Sean’s post, I believe he is referring to true science, which is definitely part of our beliefs on origins and is well supported by the Bible and SOP, as Sean admirably demonstrated.

Not having seen the exhibit myself, I cannot comment on whether or not they are mixing psuedo-science into it. (Perhaps a few of you posters out there can see the exhibit and report back to us.) Knowing the general philosophy of SAU, I would be surprised if they did.

Their goal is “to provide scientific evidence that substantiates the Bible’s account of creation.” Sounds good to me.
They also say: “Religion and science don’t need to be at odds.” And that is true when you are referring to true science, which I believe they are.

However, I do understand Bill’s reaction in that these days when people use the word ‘science’ without qualification it so often means evolutionary pseudoscience, that we tend to be suspicious.

I think, Bill, that in this case we don’t need to worry. I believe SAU’s heart is in the right place and I am so glad that at least one of our institutions is willing to stand up and be counted on the side of Creation, even though they will probably draw much criticism from the ‘scientific’ community as well as from the TEs in their own church.

God bless them for their fidelity to Him. And may God strengthen them to meet the onslaught that is most likely to follow, is my prayer for them.