@Bill Garber: I sense a certain dissonance that Educate Truth …

Comment on Video show LSU undermining church doctrine by Sean Pitman.

@Bill Garber:

I sense a certain dissonance that Educate Truth it attempting to put its boot to the neck of an organization and hierarchy for not putting its boot to the neck of a lower level institution making far less of a threat to the same hierarchy than Educate Truth.

I’m sorry, but I fail to see how the 1888 conflict over righteousness by faith (mainly anyway) was over an established “pillar” of SDA faith or against the idea that the Church must have order and government that is in fact larger than the individual (as noted already by Mrs. White herself).

You do realize that well before and after the 1888 conference that the issue of Church government and order had come up? It was with the full endorsement of Mrs. White that J.N. Loughborough wrote his 1907 work on The Church, Its Order, Organization, and Discipline. As part of this work, he explained the Church’s very selective issuing of “Cards of Commendation”:

Of course those who claimed “liberty to do as they pleased,” to “preach what they pleased,” and to “go when and where they pleased,” without “consultation with anyone,” failed to get cards of commendation. They, with their sympathizers, drew off and commenced a warfare against those whom they claimed were “depriving them of their liberty.”

One of the principal claims made by those who warred against organization was that it “abridged their liberty and independence, and that if one stood clear before the Lord that was all the organization needed,” etc. Upon this point, when church order was contested, we read: “Satan well knows that success only attend order and harmonious action. He well knows that everything connected with heaven is in perfect order, that subjection and thorough discipline mark the movements of the angelic host. . . . He deceives even the professed people of God, and makes them believe that order and discipline are enemies to spirituality; that the only safety for them is to let each pursue his own course. . . . All the efforts made to establish order are considered dangerous, a restriction of rightful liberty, and hence are feared as popery.”

– J.N. Loughborough with his quotes from Ellen White, Testimonies for the Church, Vol. I, page 650.

I’m sorry, but there would not long be an “organization” without rules and internal discipline that govern action within the Church. The individual simply cannot be completely free to act independent of the organization and hope to remain a paid representative of that organization. That’s just not how it works for any viable organization – the Church or otherwise.

Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com

Sean Pitman Also Commented

Video show LSU undermining church doctrine
@Geanna Dane:

I wrote a very nice, very sincere reply to Sean, thanking him for the many positive things he does for the church. There was no anger or sarcasm in the message.

You really don’t see how anyone who has read many of your posts would reasonably interpret much of your reply here (@Geanna Dane) as being the least bit sarcastic?

Anyway, all the best to you. Again, my father remembers you and your family fondly from your time at BMA and wishes you well. I think he even baptized you if I am remembering correctly?

I just want to say before you go that, if nothing else, you certainly got people thinking and talking on this forum. ; )

Sean


Video show LSU undermining church doctrine
@Geanna Dane:

I didn’t say either, Sean.

If you agree that this issue is important and something needs to be done to correct what is being promoted at LSU, promoted as a direct attack on the clearly stated Pillars of SDA Faith, what is your recommendation to solve the problem? I’m very curious to hear what you would recommend…

Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com


Video show LSU undermining church doctrine
@Inge Anderson:

I think Geanna considers Shane and I to be the divisive ones. She doesn’t seem to consider that perhaps the actions of LSU are divisive. Several LSU professors in both science and religion departments have been in direct long-standing and open rebellion against the stated goals and ideals of the SDA Church. Despite the concerted efforts of many to privately address and turn the course of LSU, there has been strong resistence and even outright denials of the obvious truth of the situation. Yet, Geanna pins the blame for division, not on LSU, but on those who are striving for increased transparency from our schools and to correct the fundamental division that is already there and has been tearing the Church apart for decades…

I’m sorry Geanna, but if you really value the experience you have had in SDA schools, as compared to your public school education, you should be supporting us on this issue – not attacking us for producing increased transparency here. After all, without some sort of resistance to what is taking place in schools of ours like LSU, there would be no school for you to attend that would be significantly better than the secular schools you attended where professors were obviously scornful of your “ludicrous” beliefs in the literal Genesis narrative – to include a literal creation week.

This very same thing has long been taking place at LSU, especially in the upper division science classes. For decades now LSU science professors have openly scoffed at the literal SDA interpretation of the Genesis account – publicly discounting such a nonsense position as equivalent to believing in something like a “flat Earth”…

And you’re attacking us for our efforts to maintain what you admittedly value so much?!

I believe your focus and passion are misplaced…

Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com


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